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Flower1983

Removing AS son from school whilst LA make new school decision

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Hello

 

People were a great help on here last time so I'm back!

To try keep it brief, my son (10) is currently in mainstream school. His statement has been changed to special school and the panel from the LA have met to discuss funding for our chosen school (out of LA and expensive as its a school for boys with AS) so we are waiting on their decision. Then the special school need to see if he 'fits' in with them and they can meet his needs.

 

His mainstream school appear to have given up on him and he is having an even more terrible time then he usually does. He has been excluded again today for the 2nd time in 3 weeks, for 3.5 days. His melt down today; where he ruined school property could have been avoided if they had dealt with it properly. He also came home with red marks from being restrained.

My question is, am I within my rights to take him out of school while the local authority make their decision?

Would people advise I do? - I don't want it to mess up any decision which is to be made.

 

Thank you in advance

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I think unilaterally removing him from school is a dangerous move. You could do so on medical grounds if you can get a doctor to advise it - or you can do it to home educate - but then the LA don't have to do anything at all.

 

Probably best to get agreement to keep him out of school. Either from the LA or by getting the school to exclude permanently.

 

Why not ask for a meeting with school and LA ask discuss they question with them. it sounds as if it is in on one's interest for him to stay in school at the moment.

 

The only word of caution is that having him out of school for a period before starting at the special school may make it harder for him to settle in.

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Thank you for replying!

I have made a doctors appointment for the beginning of next week incase we want to go down that route.

I agree that it's best to keep him in school so it's easier for him to settle at special school when we get the decision to which one.

 

I have contacted his autism outreach worker for advise but haven't heard back yet.

 

Have school got a responsibility to meet his needs whilst he is still there, even tho they have told the local authority they can no longer meet his needs?

I can't believe how down hill it's gone since they said they can no longer meet his needs 1 month ago. He was only back for a week before being excluded again.

Thanks

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Hi, I agree with Bed32, it's dangerous at this stage to remove him because then the LA can wash their hands of you, so to speak. I would speak to the Head at mainstream and ask if they can permanently exclude him for his own good and for theirs. When my lad was in mainstream the Head told me in confidence that it would be better if they excluded him and that way force the LA to make better provision. If the Head won't agree, you could remove him with a doctors certificate citing stress for the reason he is not able to attend, but I wouldn't just remove him. Do you know how much longer it will be before a decision is made regarding the special school?

 

All the best with it.

 

~ Mel ~

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If the school have said they can't meet his needs, and the LA have changed the statement then I don't think you can expect too much from them, it is up to the LA now.

 

Yes things can go wrong very quickly - these children are under a lot of stress in a mainstream environment and the smallest thing might just push things over the edge. There have been times when I've worried that any day might be my son's last at his mainstream school.

 

I should have said we are in the same situation, school have said they can't meet his needs and the LA have agreed in principle to independent but we haven't agreed where yet (he is 10, yr 6) so he is still going to his mainstream school but barely engaged, he is rarely in the classroom these days.

 

I presume you have a named contact in the LA SEN department - why not talk to them and see what they will agree to. FWIW the LA are failing in their legal obligation - if the statement says special school he should be I. A special school now, or as soon as practical. However getting the LA to do anything about it is difficult - you could make a complaint but that can do as much harm as good.

 

Have you been through the assessment process with your preferred school yet? If not then that is well worth doing.

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The LA called a week ago to say that funding hadn't been denied for our school choice, but that they need more questions answered from the autism outreach team.

Autism outreach also contacted me on the same day to say LA had asked that of her and that it was a formality as she had already put the answers in her report to them, but they needed specific things clarifying.

 

I'm not sure how long this will now take for the final decision to be made (then we have tribunal if we don't get the school we want).

I'm pretty sure she will have by now given the LA everything they need. LA told me that her answers won't need to wait until the Dec panel meeting - so I'm hoping it will be in the next couple of weeks.

 

We (sons dad & I) visited the independent school again yesterday. They seemed keen to get on with the home visit next week and also book a visit for my son to visit the school the week after - but we have provisionally booked those in as we don't want to get my sons hopes up if the LA don't agree.

On the other hand, he will have to visit 3 times apparently to see if he fits in and they need all his paper work before they can make their decision. So maybe we should risk it and start that to save time?

 

Bed32 - we are in the same situation! I'm finding it all very stressful as this process is taking so long. My son isn't in the classroom either and isn't following the curriculum. He has a useless 1:1 who we said in July wouldn't work, they paired them up anyway and it's gone down hill since then. My son hated him last year and we knew he lacked skills and any knowledge or understanding of Aspergers. He punishes him regularly and its so stressful for my son.

 

So I'm guessing now I phone up the LA on Monday and explain the situation and see what they suggest? I feel I need to be careful what I say so will have to work this one out!

I don't want to send him to school with nothing in place to try and prevent him having huge meltdowns, so I think a meeting with the correct people should happen before he returns?

The head is very rude and patronising towards me so I don't want any meetings without a professional there.

 

Thank you for you help, I really appreciate it. Last night I had thought I should remove him, but I'm pleased I have asked advise from people in a similar situation.

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Just wondering how likely it is LA will name your chosen school, or if they have a maintained special school they are likely to name - just because if it is looking like they won't name the school you want then you need to make sure you get an appeal in soon to save any further delay.

 

I think the requirement is on LA to provide what is in statement rather than school - but maybe you could push SEN department to get on to current school and provide more support in meantime. Or talk to SEN department and tell them that your son is not getting enough support and that school is not able to cope, so can they sort out some home tuition in the interim period.

 

As bed32 said, have that assessment at the special school done now, you do not need to wait until SEN dept have agreed to school, normally you have to have an offer of a place at the school before the LA agrees to it.

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Oops, posted at same time as you.

 

Sounds like you know what you're doing on appeal front.

 

Do go ahead now with assessment to save time and so your son will be able to get started there without a delay.

 

Phoning LA on Mon sounds good idea.

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We are quite hopeful they will agree to the school we want - but don't want to get our hopes up. Everyone is saying the right things to us and it looks like it's going in the right direction.

 

The fact they haven't denied funding, just want more questions clarified like class sizes etc which I know the autism outreach will clarify he needs small.

The other 2 LA schools which were suggested for him, autism outreach have said to me they aren't suitable as it's the same type of school he's in now - mainstream with a unit where he would spend time equally in both.

 

So it sounds like there aren't any other options within a reasonable traveling distance or within our county.

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What school are you looking for? Is it independent or Maintained?

 

I think you should take your son to see the school (or maybe more than one) and begin the assessment process. The LA can't name the school until they have said they are ready to give him a go (which will almost certainly be a trial period) so the sooner you start their assessment process the sooner it will all be settled. We did our first round of visiting schools without our son, but recently (once LA had agreed in principle to independent) have taken him round a few, and gone through their process. We think that keeps it low key so he doesn't get fixed on one particular school.

 

If you are certain in your own mind where the right school is then you need to do everything you can to make that happen. The further you can get down the line the harder it is for the LA to say "no", and the easier for them to let you have your preference. It is also much easier for you to argue your case if you have the school itself on your side saying they can meet his needs.

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The school is independent/non maintained.

 

It is specifically for boys with Aspergers and you need to be academic with most of their boys being gifted & talented in at least 1 subject - which mine is in 3, he fits the criteria as it's for boys who want an education and are fully able; but struggle within the mainstream environment.

 

I will speak to the inclusion officer from the LA, who is my point of contact, on Mon and see if she has any further news on the funding and of course about my situation with him returning to mainstream.

According to the head of the independent school, she is keen for my son to attend there and feels he needs to, but obviously her job is to try and keep children within the mainstream, so she would be the one against us if it went to tribunal. However she did say she hasn't had to do one for 2 years and was giving us advise on what to say if it did go to tribunal.

If she seems positive, I will confirm the arrangements for my son to visit.

 

I'm not sure if different county's do it differently, but as far as I'm aware we wait for the funding go ahead, then the LA contact the school we want and send all his paperwork across, then the school make the decision to whether they can meet his needs.

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Almost all independent schools are happy to take parental referrals - we have only found one that won't except in exceptional circumstances (in fact an NAS school). I think this is much more appropriate than going through the LA as it gives the parents greater involvement and control of the process - and it also saves time.

 

I think you said you already had specialist on your statement - in which case it is not the job of the inclusion officer to keep him in mainstream - her job is to implement the statement and so you should not find her opposing you. The only way they can is either if they change the statement back to mainstream, or if the propose an alternative specialist placement.

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So have the LA sent you their Decision letter which stated they would change the Statement to a "special school" placement? If they have you have a limited amount of time from that Decision letter within which to lodge an Appeal to SEND.

 

So make sure you know what the deadline is, and lodge an appeal. The LA maybe stringing it out so that they can then name their special school and you won't have the right to appeal that decision until after the next AR.

 

Regarding this independent AS school, I would arrange for him to spend some time there because you need a letter from the school saying that they have a place available for him, and that they can meet ALL his needs from within their fees. Please make sure you check that, because if he needs any additional support, specialist teaching or therapy that is NOT included in their fees, you will need to get quotes for that, and will need to go to an Appeal as the LA are unlikely to agree to fund it. And if you don't do that the LA will know the independent school cannot meet all his needs, and they will say that at the Tribunal Appeal and you won't have the evidence in quotes etc to prove that they can meet all the needs with the additional funding.

 

My son goes to an independent ASD school and we get additional funding for a specialist dyslexia teacher.

 

I would also advise that you write to the LA [whomever is handling the Statement], and ask them to reply within 14 days giving you the outcome of their Decision regarding placement and funding. If you just leave them they may take forever.

 

But definately lodge an appeal. You can always withdraw it later on.

 

Also if the Statement now says "special school", then he cannot be placed in a mainstream school. I'm not saying the LA won't try. But it is illegal and you can go to Judicial Review about it. However you have an amended Statement, which should have caused the LA to issue a Decision Letter, and you have the right to appeal to SEND, and will allow you to get the school you want named in the Statement, rather than a generic 'type' of school. If you used Judicial Review, you do not have a 'named school', and the LA could claim that any 'special school' is therefore suitable. It isn't. He has an ASD and therefore needs an ASD school - which, I presume, is what you have in the reports and correspondence to date.

 

If the LA have amended the Statement without a Decision Letter I would check with SEND if you can lodge an appeal. If they say you cannot, then you have to lodge a complaint with the Local Authority complaints person that they have not followed administrative procedures and issued a Decision Letter. Again give them 14 days within which to respond. Then contact the Local Governments Ombudsman and lodge a complaint with them on maladministration ie. not issuing the Decision Letter and therefore stopping you having the right to appeal the amended Statement.

Edited by Sally44

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As already advised, don't remove him from school.

 

However if he refuses to go, or is not coping, that is something different. To cover yourself go to the GP and get a referal to Clinical Psychology, to a team that works with children with an ASD. And when you see them ask them how much force you should use to get him into school. When I did that I was told only gentle encouragement, which I knew would not get him in as he was in such an anxious state at that time. But having that advice, in writing, from ClinPsych kept the EWO away as the LA could not get him involved as I was following 'medical advice'.

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Thank you all for your advise.

We have had brilliant news - the LA has agreed funding for our choosen school!

 

My son is going to look around next week and I think will then have a transition period up until Xmas before starting officially in January.

 

I had a meeting with his current school on Wed to see how they are going to manage him until he leaves and he is now doing half days until he leaves and is still not following the curriculum. We're doing work with him at home.

 

Just need to sort out the transport side now, he lives between me & his dads so I'm not sure if they will collect from 2 places? Transport has been agreed - just not the formalities.

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I am glad it looks like things are moving, but remember that the LA could back out of it until you have the amended Statement. And that is why it is VERY important that you make sure you have the LA Decision letter after the review so that you have the right to appeal to SEND. Otherwise they could back up, or string this decision out for ages, whilst telling you they 'agree' to changes, but cannot agree funding etc. So make sure you get a right to appeal to SEND and get their agreement to your parental choice of school in writing. If they have not sent one to you, send a letter to them saying something like

 

"Further to the review on xxxxxx, and our [telephone conversation/letter etc] on xxxxx, where you agreed to our parental choice of school as xxxxxxx. Can you please confirm your Decision in writing within the next 14 days and agreement for my son to attend xxxxx school, and amend his Statement accordingly."

 

Because, as an example, my LA has agreed in principle for my son to have additional residential hours in his current school, but they are not agreeing the funding for this, and this has been going on for around 6 months now. We have an Annual Review in February, and if it is not agreed, and the Statement amended by then, I will appeal to SEND. So I hope you don't encounter these delaying tactics, but if you have sent a letter similar to the above, you will at least have started the evidence you will need to lodge a complaint to LGO to get the Decision Letter so that you can appeal the Review. If you already have the Decision letter lodge an appeal anyway because if your son is not in your parental choice of school within 4 months, you will have an appeal where you can produce evidence that the LA agreed to the parental choice of school, but have delayed actioning that. With evidence of the LA's agreement to your parental choice of school the Panel are likely to just Order them to fund it.

 

As there is no legal timescale within which the LA must issue their Decision letter, they can string it out for a whole year and issue it just before the next AR. But again, if you have asked them to issue the Decision letter within 14 days, and they have not done it, you can lodge a formal complaint with the LA, and then follow that up with a complaint to the LGO.

 

So basically, although it is good they have agreed, that does not always mean it is going to happen - not until the Statement is amended.

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