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KezT

Becoming violent?

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I suppose I always knew this day would come at some point:(

 

DS is 13 now, bigger, stronger and heavier than me already. Since starting at his specialist school 9 months ago, life has been getting better for everyone, and he has started attaining his academic targets again, and even made some friends, but......

 

He has recently started becoming quite violent at school, lashing out at several teachers, to the point they have had to write a violence risk assessment for him:(

 

When asked why, he usually denies that he did anything at all and will go into quite elaborate detailed explanations as to how everyone else is lying and it was all their fault.

 

My youngest is only three years old, and DH is disabled. If DS hits either of them he could do some major damage:/ He hasn't been violent at home yet, and we have always had an absolute zero tolerance on any violent behaviour at all but would appreciate any ideas, suggestions, resources etc to help combat this while he is home over Xmas.

 

He is intelligent and able to understand normal age appropriate books/discussions when calm.

 

I would love to be able to send him back to school with the problem solved:0

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What does he say they have done to make it their fault? As that might be the trigger. But it needs to be worked on because he needs to be taught an appropriate way to show he is not happy, or has had enough, or too much demands have been placed on him.

 

My son can get very angry and upset, and what he does is try to avoid the situation or avoid school. What school have done is to make a "chill out" area in the classroom that he can go to whenever he needs, and an adult will stay with him and maybe read a book together etc. My son also has an anxiety disorder and OCD, and we have had to do alot of things to try to reduce that anxiety.

I am also going to ask for a full time 1:1 at his next AR because he needs adult support throughout the day.

 

Also ask school to keep a record of had happens exactly before any incident and they must keep a very detailed record of what your son was doing at the time too. For example, if the teacher asks him to do something, and he is still in the middle of something else, that could upset my son, if he was not also told that he could finish what he was currently doing. And sometimes, even talking to him when he is concentrating on something else can make him lose track of what he was doing/thinking and that annoys him too.

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Sometimes its not so much a trigger effect as a "last straw". It may be that he`s coped with a series of smallish things not being right and a gradual build up of tension. For some, it can only take a relatively minor event or something not being as he expects, for it to result in an explosive reaction. Of course its hard to maintain a smooth path through the series of activities and events in a day, week or month but be careful of thinking the "trigger" event is what its all about and only addressing that.

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Hi this sounds so much like how my son Glen has reacted in the past particularly with School. Glen's behaviour has improved so much now he's no longer having education. It gets too much for them at School, there's too much stimulation. I don't envy any of the 'special kids' on here having to go to School. If I had my time over again with Glen I would never have 'pushed Glen' so to speak into going to School. I thought I was doing the right thing at the time but realise now that it was the worst thing I could ever have done.

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I used to be violent too. I attacked what I did not fear. My advice is to have an older male adult threaten/scare him into not causing trouble. It's important that your son doesn't realise that you've instigated this threat and he still trusts you. When he comes to you to explain what happened you side with him then after a day tell him that the adult male won't hurt him. He will be on edge and won't mess about.

 

I realise this isn't plitically correct advice and no psychiatrist would recommended an agressive approach like this but I can tell you from experience that it should work in reducing the violent behaviour.

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I`m not sure if instigating fear is the key! Certainly making it crystal clear that this behaviour wont be tolerated is vital. However, it is also important that DS understands exactly what it is that he`s expected to do. Too much "fuzzy" language used towards him at a time when he has become or is becoming stressed or confused can make it much worse. I`ve seen people say to youngsters things like "behave!" or "thats not nice": neither clear or specific enough. Direct straighforward language used with a quiet voice and an impassive facial expression helps to reduce the extra stimulation and enable people to get the message in a rapid and non threatenening way. I dont agree with Fluffy`s suggestions. Starting to play games and play one person off against another is a route to potentially much more confusion and distress all round.

There are lots of other ways to address this situation. I would hope that the school staff/Ed Psychs etc are on the case?

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Thanks all. Tbh he's been lovely all through xmas. Not seen any violence at all:/ Have had a chat with him about what happened at school and thay violence is totally unacceptable in any form. Also explained possible outcomes. Think he understands. He won't say exactly what the ussue was at school but says he has sorted it. Will have to see how it goes when school restarts....

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Glad to hear it! Its obviously school related. I suppose its a difficult time for any boy on top of having his ASD related difficulties. I hope things remain calm and he continues to develop and mature over the next year. Good luck!

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Avoiding benzoates and gluten reduces my temper and violent outbursts down to 0. Now I only hit if someone touches me whilst im overloaded

or if someone hits my 1st.

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Hi Trekster - we tried a variety of dietry options with DS, including a full 6 mths gluten free. None of them made the slightest difference to him (except he moaned a lot about not bing allowed pasta for 6 mths lol). Didn't help any of the rest of the family either - not even the one with gastro issues:(

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As it takes many months to get out of the system (10 months before gluten cravings went) and also you have to take out all offending food and non food items at

once, then hard to say whether it is fair crack of the whip of gf/cf etc f.

 

I had to go off gluten and dairy, then cut down on msg and out aspartame, then look at non food stuffs and be honest with myself ie if I had cravings I drank some

tonic water instead of relenting. I recently found out that soya is also a problem. This is a lifestyle change rather than a diet. Glue, licking stamps, sticky tape, stickers

play doh (unsure if your son uses the stuff) then adding in 1 by 1 safe versions of omega 3 oils, mag, b6, b12, calcium, etc until the right balance was found.

 

ive used 2 resource books to help me, "children with starving brains" and "dietary difficulties and autism".

 

Just out of interest are you a member of your local NAS group? I ask because I have volunteered for them.

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hmmm, 6mths seems to be suggested as ample by most books/drs - especially for pre-pubescent children whose bodies are changing so much quicker than adults. considering it didn't make an iota of difference to his behaviour, good or bad, nor did it increase any cravings or OCD tendancies, I am loathe to remove such a massively important part of his diet again without some pretty strong empirical scientific evidence of the benefits to all (rather than anecdotal that it works for *some* individuals who happen to be ASD). He doesn't use any of the gluey type non-food substances that use gluten - one of his "things":) We did do a full elimintion diet (under consultant advise) for my daughter which also turned out not to resolve any issues. I guess tht is not a contibuting fctor in my family:/

 

We are member of the local NAS - he went to the aspie youth club for while before he started his specialist school, although thy asked him to leav after several weeks a he was too disruptive:( We haven't taken him to th more "autisti" groups because he is just too vocal tbh, and I don't want him to think of himself as having classic autism - he has enough self esteem issues already:/ They have stopped doing almost everything for kids/teenagers as far as I can tell - only adults sessions now:(

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Did you remove gluten, dairy, soya, msg and aspartame when you trialled it though? Also were you 100% sure he wasn't getting any of those things from another source? eg chocolate bars hidden in his room. No malt or oats either? To be fair not every medication works for epilepsy so therefore how can every intervention or removing certain elements from a lifestyle work for every autistic? I'm going on the trial for a year guidance also adding in certain supplements which are quite a puzzle to try.

 

Unfortunately this intervention is really difficult to prove or disprove either way :-(. I am still autistic however I am better able to tell how and when my behaviour is affecting others than pre intervention.

 

There is also the unfortunate possibility that puberty is going poorly for your son.

http://www.autism.org.uk/living-with-autism/understanding-behaviour/behaviour-common-questions-answered/my-sons-behaviour-has-suddenly-changed.aspx

 

http://www.autism.org.uk/living-with-autism/understanding-behaviour/behaviour-common-questions-answered/my-daughter-is-prone-to-aggressive-behaviour.aspx

 

http://www.autism.org.uk/living-with-autism/understanding-behaviour/behaviour-common-questions-answered/my-son-is-targetting-certain-staff-at-his-home.aspx

 

 

Another route is the sensory route, as he is still a child could he have a sensory assessment by the OT?

 

Your signature mentions your husband has chronic pain disabilities. Could your son also have the fibromyalgia but be displaying it by his behaviour? I am unable to effectively communicate pain with people and tend to snap at them even though I am highly verbal. I got my fibromyalgia diagnosis age 25 and my EDS diagnosis last year both were missed for years because I was unable to communicate the level of pain I was in at the time.

 

The poor self esteem and the violent behaviour will be linked. Is he on any medication? Will he read books about Aspergers?

 

HTH

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We did not do a full elimination diet with him - he is still a child and that is very dangerous to do without good reason and medical supervision! As I said, dietary changes of any kind have not made any difference to his behavious, good or bad, so I do not believe that is an issue for him.

 

The self esteem is linked far more to his school experiences, and is slowly improving now - it's just a long road made more difficult due to the autism:)

 

He has seen Ots before and I have just convinced him to cooperate with the school ot too. Definitely not eds (actually diagnosed as hypo-mobile) but does have z variety of sensory issues including a very low pain tolerance - he is very vocal about any pain he feels lol

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I know many parents who have done this lifestyle change without medical supervision. If I was just off the gluten this lifestyle would

appear not to work.

 

Bad enough feeling unable to do something because you are different from other kids, but when it hurts to do a lot of physical activities

that is much worse. Being socially naïve an unfortunate consequence of autism also contributes to the poor self esteem. The school dinning

hall was really overloading and confusing mainly in a sensory way. What sensory issues has your sons OT identified?

 

There has been some research published recently that EDS3 and Hypermobility syndrome are the same disability. Is he getting physio,

orthotics and other interventions recommended in 'the hypermobile child' booklet from the HMSA? My diagnosis came in my 30s

and I have been trying to get treatment and assistance since. Sounds like his pain is causing a lot of the self esteem issues.

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He's hypomobile, not hyper, and honestly, he's not in pain. he ALWAYS lets us know, loudly and continuously if he is. Thankfully he's never had any really bad (or even "real") injuries, because the non-stop information about every spot, bruise or OMG splinter (just the once) is quite enough;).

 

Over the years, and for various reasons I have spoken extensively to immunologists, dieticians, nutricianists and gastro consultants. the repercussions of removing the number of foods you suggest from his diet on absolutly no evidence at all is way beyond any possible benefits to a child that is mostly lovely! The original point of this post was that the violence was unusual for him, and this has been bourn out by the fact that it stopped with teh respite of the Xmas holidays:)

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There is plenty of compelling and scientific evidence that diet can influence behaviour in children, and presumably adults as well. The problem is that everyone is different so what works for one child may not work for another.

 

I see no problem with eliminating MSG, aspartame and many artificial colouring from the diet - there is no need for them. Some children do have a dairy intolerance so it might be worth removing that for a short period of time to see if it makes improvements.

 

The whole "CFGF Autism Diet" is a different thing. It is much harder to asses that objectively - some people say it works very well and it is hard to discount their experiences, but people talk about results in 6, 12, or even 24 months and over that timescale all children will develop anyway - I can see no way that you can say that the changes are linked to that particular dietary change

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is there something at school making him anxious or sad ? as way he expresses this as anger or his frustration maybe ? all options need to explored! have you had a meeting with the school , SENCO support workers to find out any additional information ,details of his school daily routine? could be another pupil making him angry winding him up ,bullying him? maybe you could discuss with school having a school to home daily diary to keep track on how he has generally been behaviour anger wise each day so can record anything changing to set him off in anyway? just few ideas hope find them useful ,helpful? maybe have quiet room ,area or sensory room which he could access if he starts get angry ?

 

XKLX

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Putting aside the dietary side of things as I'm not a believer either, my son has had similar issues (not violent but could have turned that way) and in his eyes teachers were screaming in his face. Of course it turned out they weren't, but that he is so sound sensitive that the slightest raise on voice seems that way to him. This wouldn't be limited to just sound either. Reality is different to everyone. I don't know the answer yet as we have yet to have a single positive outcome from mainstream education and because of this issue Dan has been forced out of college. Just a slightly different viewpoint and to say I hope things work out for you all xx

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