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KalamityKat

Dealing with people online.

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Okay, so as a minor, the internet is a wonderful place for me. I get to speak anonymously to people which helps with the confrontational side of real life. It's just pixels sending messages. But, in those pixels lies no intonation. I can no longer detect sarcasm, and when people leave a sentence unfinished, I can't detect what they're implying. "Kat..." could easily turn into "Kat... I can't help but profess my love for you :D" or "Kat... shut up, you annoying person." It's usually the latter, but how on earth am I meant to know? NTs get even more annoyed when I ask, extremely politely in response: "Please finish your sentence so I know you're not confessing your love for me. It's always a possibility for me, LOL!" How could that possibly be interpreted badly? Do they not see the "LOL"? They suddenly accuse me of trolling. I tell them I have ASD and suddenly they rant at me for lying. When they finally believe me (which often they don't), they have no idea what it is, and tell me to control myself. This happens nearly everywhere. It's getting to the point where I'm considering to just stop playing any games, and just leave the internet. It's always the same scenario. I just want my questions answered, and they say I'm trolling. Does anybody have any advice on dealing with these people? Making them treat me better? I really don't want to leave.

 

Note: They tell me I can never be a trainee (what I aspire to be in the game) because I'm not mature enough, despite me being a very mature teacher that has taught other kids very easily, most with behaviour problems. I'm sure I can handle a game.

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KalamityKat I am an old man in my fifties, I have lived through life/existence with a simple tactic, it is avoidance.

I know and have known for a long time that people find me difficult, rude and arrogant. Also as I am clumsy with people, I know full well things can/will go badly wrong. Its better to avoid.

 

Granted its a very frustrating tactic. Life/existence is very empty without some interaction, is better to restrict this to people who know yourself, or to occasional simple conversations with a gentle stranger in a public space. I have worked as a computer techie visiting clients who got used to me, people expect UNIX techies to be a bit strange.

 

The internet did not exist when I was growing into my full stature, so I did not have the temptations that face you. Random chat is both dangerous and boring, I have tried it, there are a lot of very weird people out there, so its something I will not do again. Internet games are another thing I know nothing about, and really apart from a simple word game on this system, its unlikely I will ever be interested.

 

Your young and I would normally avoid you, this posting is the closet I will come. I have found the 'instant messaging' systems too much and too little. I have absolutely nothing apart from ASD in common with you or anyone else on this system.

 

Somehow I think that you will find what I have said to be of no use.

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A brilliantly-written post, KK - naturally! ;)

 


...the internet is a wonderful place for me.

And for me too... and to think that I was a kommitted komputerphobe until 2006. Quite unbelievable. I still like my books though. It's easy to be deluded into thinking that the internet has all the answers; it doesn't and needs to be complemented by real life experiences - and reading books.

I get to speak anonymously to people which helps with the confrontational side of real life.

The internet has helped me in this way too. It's ideal for Aspies on many levels - but especially for communicating our thoughts, feelings and ideas on a more equal basis than in real life.

It's just pixels sending messages. But, in those pixels lies no intonation. I can no longer detect sarcasm, and when people leave a sentence unfinished, I can't detect what they're implying. "Kat..." could easily turn into "Kat... I can't help but profess my love for you :D" or "Kat... shut up, you annoying person." It's usually the latter, but how on earth am I meant to know?

Classik examples! So funny, yet only too familiar. They say Aspies can't detect sarcasm in real life, but in my experience many of us can - at least some of the time. Occasionally, I miss it, and take it literally, but not that often. In real life, intonation, facial expression and body language play such a big part in social communication, but as you say, KK, the internet lacks these nuances. That's why we use smilies. LOLs, ROFLs, emotikons, etc. As Aspies, we're better adapted when chatting on the internet than in real life, for we don't have to worry about our difficulties in reading social cues. The only trouble is that, NT's still behave in stereo-neuro-typical ways on the internet. They assume that we can all understand them and read their minds. It's not only Aspies who often get the wrong end of the stick, but other NTs too.

The internet is also a favoured haunt of a particulary nasty personality-type, and they've even been given a name: trolls. Psychologists are doing a lot of research on trolling, and they've discovered that most have personality disorders - usually of the narcissistic and psychopathic types. The internet offers a whole new opportunity to control, belittle and insult strangers. Such personalities feed off the hurt that they cause to others (known as narcissistic supply). They gain pleasure by watching them suffer either in real life, or by reading their words online. Once you've identified one of these people, the worst thing you can do is to continue trying to defend yourself, for you're playing right into their hands. No amount of careful reasoning will make them change their ways. The best thing to do is to ignore them by not replying. If using a forum, you can ask a moderator to do something about it - warn or ban them. Any good mod who sees trolling going on should act quickly to stop it. I've been a victim of this several times, and found it very stressful, and have even lost sleep over it. At one time it never dawned on me that these people had serious mental issues, and I'd even imagine that I'd done something wrong.

NTs get even more annoyed when I ask, extremely politely in response: "Please finish your sentence so I know you're not confessing your love for me. It's always a possibility for me, LOL!" How could that possibly be interpreted badly? Do they not see the "LOL"?

 

Politeness doesn't work with these types. It seems to provoke even more insults. They may well be NTs, but they're NT's with PDs.

They suddenly accuse me of trolling.

 

Pots calling kettles black... This is known as denial-and-projection. They deny their own faults and project them onto their chosen scapegoat, ususually someone particularly sensitive or intelligent. Unlike Aspies, they're very good at reading emotions (cognitive empathy), but they lack emotional and compassionate empathy. If they have a degree of social influence or kudos withing their group (narcissists are good at sham charisma), their followers will tend to side with them.

I tell them I have ASD and suddenly they rant at me for lying. When they finally believe me (which often they don't), they have no idea what it is, and tell me to control myself. This happens nearly everywhere.

 

I've had it too, KK, but at least you know why you are so badly affected by it. I didn't at the time. I just thought I was weird, even though I knew I was in the right.

 

It's getting to the point where I'm considering to just stop playing any games, and just leave the internet. It's always the same scenario. I just want my questions answered, and they say I'm trolling. Does anybody have any advice on dealing with these people? Making them treat me better? I really don't want to leave.

 

If you find that no-one is supporting you, or is only half-heartedly supporting you, and if appealing to mods (if any) falls on deaf ears, then that's the time to leave. It's like having friends who treat you like dirt in real life. Such 'friends' just aren't worth having.

 

Note: They tell me I can never be a trainee (what I aspire to be in the game) because I'm not mature enough, despite me being a very mature teacher that has taught other kids very easily, most with behaviour problems. I'm sure I can handle a game.

You're mature beyond your years, KK, and I suspect that they secretly suspect the same, however, like all gifted people, and probably most Aspies, you are sensitive. In my book, sensitivity is true maturity - a virtue. The so-called maturity of so much about the NT world is more akin to shallow bravado and empty bluff. Of course you can handle the game, but they fear that they're not up to handling you - so they make excuses.

Edited by Mihaela

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Part two.

 


KalamityKat I am an old man in my fifties,

Old? The best part of life has yet to begin! You're only as old as you feel. I feel like a teenager - and often act like one too, haha, and so does my partner in crime. :)

I have lived through life/existence with a simple tactic, it is avoidance.

 

I was once misdiagnosed as avoidant-schizotypal. Of course, it was nonsense. I'm a born optimist. I find nothing contradictory about enjoying my own company and needing friends too. I'm fussy about my friends though. I need them for they reassure me that I'm not alone in the world. Some can truly inspire me, make me think, improve my life no end... I'm very loyal too.

I know and have known for a long time that people find me difficult, rude and arrogant. Also as I am clumsy with people.

My closest real-life friend is all those things (and more besides), but that doesn't prevent us from being attached to one another like limpets! We accept our peculiarities and even enjoy them.

Granted its a very frustrating tactic. Life/existence is very empty without some interaction, is better to restrict this to people who know yourself, or to occasional simple conversations with a gentle stranger in a public space. I have worked as a computer techie visiting clients who got used to me, people expect UNIX techies to be a bit strange.

That sounds fair enough. I'd agree with you here.

 

The internet did not exist when I was growing into my full stature, so I did not have the temptations that face you. Random chat is both dangerous and boring, I have tried it, there are a lot of very weird people out there, so its something I will not do again.

Temptations have always existed in real life. I find there is far less common sense nowadays though. Random chat wouldn't appeal to me, mainly because it would bore me, but surely it's less dangerous than it would be in real life where you'd have less control. Unfortunately, life does involve a certain amount of risk, but hopefully we all have the intelligence to keep that risk to a minimum. Paranoia over perceived risks is a sign of the times, but is bad for the soul.

Internet games are another thing I know nothing about, and really apart from a simple word game on this system, its unlikely I will ever be interested.

They can be fun. They tend to be Aspie-friendly :)

 

Your young and I would normally avoid you, this posting is the closet I will come. I have found the 'instant messaging' systems too much and too little. I have absolutely nothing apart from ASD in common with you or anyone else on this system.

I draw no artificial boundaries in my friendships. Age means nothing to me compared with intellect, friendliness, common interests, etc. I could never avoid anybody merely on grounds of age. It seems to go against everything that being fully human, and living life to the full, means. I work as a volunteer with people of all ages, and one elderly woman openly admits that she dislikes teenagers. I simply can't understand such a sweeping dismissal of an entire age-group. I find my younger friends tend to be more inspiring than older ones, and I learn a lot from them.

 

Somehow I think that you will find what I have said to be of no use.

I don't find it of no use. It helps me understand you better, but it's a shame that you feel so pessimistic about life - but if you're content being like that, that's all that matters. :)

Edited by Mihaela

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That's how everything goes on the internet. Are you aware of the notation for irony? Take a look at Poe's Law and you should find something around there about it. The symbol doesn't show up on my computer, unfortunately.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony_punctuation

 

As for dealing with it, most people are confrontational with the guise of anonymity. There's a vast lack of clarity within the confines of online interaction. Some people are good, and some people are not. I like to see it as what I call a "fixed" sort of problem; you can't deal with it directly. Rather, you must adapt to it and work your way around it. Would you rather cut down a tree blocking your path or find another route? One is a little more efficient than the other.

 

My point is, as I said before, you find good people and you find not so great people. I'd rather not consider them bad people. I always like to look for the good but sometimes it's very hard, especially when you're on the receiving end of embittered individuals.

 

I can't speak much else on this subject. I suppose I've developed a sort of callous after being caught in many a silent altercation over online interaction. It causes me to develop a sort of instinctual response, a kind that you can't fully explain in conscious nature in the same way that you cannot explain drawing your hand rapidly away from a hot plate or fire in conscious nature. Trust me; you'll find those that understand you better than others at some point in time. You just really need to look and in many cases get lucky.

 

Apologies for a slightly finicky and fractured response. I struggled as to what I meant to say in many cases, but I hope I get my point across.

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Another fractured response from a 58 year old man, posting because I've been psychologically duffed up online by groups of trolls in the past. This has upset me beyond all reason despite the fact I know it shouldn't, and despite the fact I'm pretty mentally tough.

 

What I've done is avoid the trolls. They can be staggeringly hostile if you stand up to them, and it looks to me like they want you to keep coming back so they can make you feel like quitting the internet forever.

 

Some websites actually appear to have a policy of encouraging trolls, and some people see being sneaky and destructive online as a laugh.

 

I've noticed that sarcasm and irony don't work in text messages, maybe it's the same with posting?

 

On those Anti Social Personality Disorder people: Read a thing about them once online about how to deal with them IRL, and the advice was do not try to warn anyone about them, just get out of the way of them. Charisma was mentioned in the writing as well, they can have magnetic personalities and can be very very convincing con artists.

 

The world and the internet strikes me as being like jungle, but like a jungle you can find really really good bits where you can find other friendly creatures.

Edited by Alexanderplatz

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I've been psychologically duffed up online by groups of trolls in the past. This has upset me beyond all reason despite the fact I know it shouldn't, and despite the fact I'm pretty mentally tough.

So have I - a few times, but not in the past few years for I vowed never to let it happen again. The only answer, as you say, is to avoid them. I'm not sure whether I'm mentally tough. I'm highly sensitive and cry very easily, but people have always said that I have an inner strength. I cry for the victim, for my own helplessness, out of anger and 'for the world' - it can overpower me and is beyond words. I can never come to terms with all the gratutious cruelty in the NT world, and I feel the same about it now as I did when I was small. My emotions have never changed. I've been called immature many times, but my logical mind can see nothing immature about hating cruelty with a passion. A passion that is so often lacking among 'normal', 'emotionally mature' adults - who show more concern over the mundane trivia of their banal lives than over all the needless suffering in the world. Thanks very much, but I prefer being 'emotionally immature/stunted/arrested'. I simply can't accept the hypocrisy and inhumanity which seems an inherent part of being emotionally 'mature' - besides, I couldn't live with the heavy burden of guilt.

 

They can be staggeringly hostile if you stand up to them, and it looks to me like they want you to keep coming back so they can make you feel like quitting the internet forever.

 

This is what I felt at the time, and still would. Their aim is to break your spirit.

 

On those Anti Social Personality Disorder people: Read a thing about them once online about how to deal with them IRL, and the advice was do not try to warn anyone about them, just get out of the way of them. Charisma was mentioned in the writing as well, they can have magnetic personalities and can be very very convincing con artists.

The majority of people with psychopathic personality traits are found in organisations that involve control over others - nurses, teachers, traffic wardens, police officers, 'officials' of all kinds, petty bureaucrats, slaughterhouse workers, even storekeepers. Many are 'successful' business people, politicians, etc. Historically, they've been attracted to work in closed institutions, where their control is total - boarding schools, orphanages, prisons, asylums, work-houses, concentration camps, etc. Most of them channel their lust for control and power in legal (or just legal) ways, despite leaving a trail of human (and/or animal) suffering in their wake. A minority commit heinous crimes, and it's these who are popularly labelled as 'psychopaths'.

They are manipulative, superficially charming, devious, ruthless, very convincing liars and can be very intelligent. Charisma is a key trait of narcissistic personality disorder, however, it is superficial, as is so much about these dangerous people. Personality disorders are nearly always formed during childhood and generally very evident by their teens. If the signs are spotted early early enough, it's possible to treat them more successfully. Nothing like enough is done to prevent them developing, but then many would argue that society needs aggressive businessmen, politicians, police officers, etc. I disagree. Suffering is never a price worth paying, and can never be justified.

The psychologist, Erich Fromm, who a book that strongly influenced my thinking and view of the world : "The Anatomy of Human Destructiveness". Another, on similar lines, was Hannah Arendt's well-known study of Adolf Eichmann : "The Banality of Evil". Essential reading for anyone who wishes to learn more about the human condition, ethics and the meaning of goodness.

The world and the internet strikes me as being like jungle, but like a jungle you can find really really good bits where you can find other friendly creatures.

True, and the real world has got to be more dangerous that the online world. It would be irrational to believe the reverse, however, either can affect the 'real world' of our thoughts and feelings.

Edited by Mihaela

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