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Aspergers Syndrome and Learning Disability, do they do together?

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I was just wondering if one was to have Aspergers Syndrome would that cancel out a learning disability and makes ones condition ASD? Does a person with Aspergers Syndrome need a IQ of over 70 to be diagnosed with said condition?

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The IQ rule no longer applies to the latest criterion of learning disability at long last.

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I have a very high IQ, but I also have a learning disability due to that combined with my autism. I have executive dysfunction, mild dyspraxia and dyscalculia. There are certain things I've just never been able to learn, and my high IQ and poor concentration in those areas doesn't help at all. Many people with much lower IQs can live independently, but I need support.

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No, I do mean IQ. I have a very high IQ, but it's uneven - there are blind spots which cause severe executive dysfunction. This makes ordinary life impossible without support. My ED includes a varying sense of time; confusion over dates, clock changes, timetables; inability to plan ahead; dyscalculia; forgetfulness, dyspraxia (left-right, hand co-ordination...), etc. I also have a fear of money, forms, bills, banks, solicitors, etc. In fact, my fear extends to the entire neurotypical world. As well as all this, I have very acute sensory processing sensitivity and can burst into tears very easily, such as when I see a 'missing cat' notice, a horrific news story, etc. (I don't follow the news). My SPS also includes high sensitivity to light, noises, sticky fingers, change (even eating a meal that isn't part of my routine) - which I've had all my life. It extends to aesthetics - I can't abide the ugliness of modern life (towns, roads, cars, violence, greed, hypocrisy, materialism, etc.) and it all makes me uneasy and desperate to escape. I often have panic attacks in noisy places, supermarkets, etc. .

 

I'd manage perfectly well as a hermit living in a forest, and would feel quite content with occasional human contact. My intellectual and spiritual drive is much stronger than any social drive.

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I know that if you have a high IQ they wont say you have a learning disability and you have to be below 70 to be diangosed with a learning disability. above that would be referred to as learning difficulties.

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My IQ is probably higher than my support staff's. Well, former support staff. Having autism does not make me a moron.

Edited by trekster

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The IQ rule wasn't in the latest government paper about learning disability, mental health and autism, therefore it no longer applies.

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I have a very high IQ, but it has black spots in the area of executive function (including dyscalculia). EF is vital for modern living, and for me EF is a learning disability. Also I tend to take things literally, so instructions must be clear, concise and completely jargon free. I'd have managed perfectly well living in a little hut like a hermit. It's my relationship with modern life that's the problem - or maybe modern life itself, for it's so unnatural and goes against human nature in so many ways.

Edited by Mihaela

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Hello,

 

Several students who I teach cannot access support for independent or supported living because they do not meet the criteria required for support from the Learning Disabilities team. To access help from the Learning Disabilities team, clients used to be assessed by the team and they were not funded for support unless their IQ was 70 or less (MLD). Now I believe the IQ requirement is much lower, possibly 50 or less (SLD). The students had IQs of average or above average range, but their coping skills and social awareness made them far too vulnerable to live independently.

 

I may have the exact figures wrong, but in general terms, many of the students with AS had average or above average IQs.

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HS,um I'm below 70 and access learning disability team only purely also because I meet the substantial to critical criteria as I have significant health problems

Iq 50 is moderate learning disability

Above 60 is mild

Edited by Special_talent123

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I have no ideal of my IQ it's not something my Doctor or Autism Assesment made any reference to in the past. I have problems with memory planning things attention span I can get distracted very easily and don't follow conversation or instructions particularly well. There has to be a connection between Autism and IQ but it's probably on a very individual basis and if not specifically relevant the limitations will effect the ability to relate to your IQ in relation to achievements.

I consider myself to be of a very average IQ but my traits do make me appear to be backward I have been told this many times throughout my life. I believe I have learning disabilities but in my school days you were placed in a group for slow learners and basically forgotten about. I think it was because I could be disruptive in class and they just put me where I would be out of the way without any special attention. Maybe I would have been brighter with a better education but it wasn't to be so I do feel I could have achieved more given the chance even with my social problems or others problems with me as a child.

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Hi Special Talent,

 

I apologise for my error in the previous post. The figures for the various categories of LD are indeed lower than I stated. However, I will expand on the issue a little. Irrespective of IQ, in my experience, many people with AS struggle with life skills (in various ways) and really need support to live independently. I realise that i am making sweeping generalisations here and there will be many people with AS who have no such problems. However, because access to services and support is often dependent upon 'quantifiable' criteria such as IQ etc. it may be difficult for those people who have significant need of support, but who do not meet the criteria for access to obtain it.

 

I would say that the literature that I have read suggests there is not a direct correlation between AS and learning disability (learning difficulties may be a different matter) but as Livelife has indicated above, there are other factors which may prove a barrier to learning for people with AS and related 'conditions' resulting in significant underachievement

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I have mid functioning autism not high/aspergers but gets offended when some people state doing that as they are wrong

 

I have significant health needs with moderate learning disability it affects how I learn every day things. Learning disability isn't the same as learning difficulty. How ever the executive functioning can be in a intellectual disability like Irlen syndrome

Edited by Special_talent123

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As special talent123 said above there are mental health issues involved. However I believe this is an area that can be helped unlike autism which is something you are born with and not a developmental condition.

When you do not have the correct help and support depression anxiety stress will increase introducing physical symptoms into an already difficult life in just managing on a day to day basis.

This is my experience I have specific limitations that I can operate within sometimes very effectively but for the vast majority of time people expect more than is possible pushing you into impossible situations and then when you experience meltdowns or unable to cope they look at you as some kind of off world species. To a degree I would say I feel like that, I don't belong in their society because I'm not welcomed into it for who I am I need to change which I can't do I've been this way all my life.

This whole way of treatment creates stress and everything associated with it effecting my coping abilitys to function and exaggerating my traits or making them more noticeable because of meltdowns.

If there is to be a better life for people on the autistic spectrum people need to know and understand we can't be changed and just to except us for who we are, we do have a lot to offer society if only we were given the chance.

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As special talent123 said above there are mental health issues involved. However I believe this is an area that can be helped unlike autism which is something you are born with and not a developmental condition.

When you do not have the correct help and support depression anxiety stress will increase introducing physical symptoms into an already difficult life in just managing on a day to day basis.

This is my experience I have specific limitations that I can operate within sometimes very effectively but for the vast majority of time people expect more than is possible pushing you into impossible situations and then when you experience meltdowns or unable to cope they look at you as some kind of off world species. To a degree I would say I feel like that, I don't belong in their society because I'm not welcomed into it for who I am I need to change which I can't do I've been this way all my life.

This whole way of treatment creates stress and everything associated with it effecting my coping abilitys to function and exaggerating my traits or making them more noticeable because of meltdowns.

If there is to be a better life for people on the autistic spectrum people need to know and understand we can't be changed and just to except us for who we are, we do have a lot to offer society if only we were given the chance.

I have more than mental health needs that are significant it's everything

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I have more than mental health needs that are significant it's everything

Yes I see and understand that you do, I believe that unless you or anybody else gets the treatments and understanding they need then mental health deteriorates as a result not the mental health as a separate issue. Sorry if I didn't make myself clear or not understanding what you meaning is.

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Yes I see and understand that you do, I believe that unless you or anybody else gets the treatments and understanding they need then mental health deteriorates as a result not the mental health as a separate issue. Sorry if I didn't make myself clear or not understanding what you meaning is.

I am under learning disability team. It's my physical issues mainly and the rest of stuff. U can't just get a social worker u now need to be substantial to fit there criteria. I've ton from 2 substantial to now 4 substantial and need more help. I have fibromyalgia and my personal care is affected. My mental health and my vulnerabilities . But everything really

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I am under learning disability team. It's my physical issues mainly and the rest of stuff. U can't just get a social worker u now need to be substantial to fit there criteria. I've ton from 2 substantial to now 4 substantial and need more help. I have fibromyalgia and my personal care is affected. My mental health and my vulnerabilities . But everything really

I can see where you are right now, I've had contact with a social worker who helped when I was trying to keep my job. I can't get a personal social worker for my daily needs but he has helped where he can on certain issues I've needed help with.

I was still dismissed on incapacity but he tried sometimes an employer is determined to dismiss you doesn't matter about anything else I'd been there or a long time but as soon as I was diagnosed within a year I was gone.

My partner has fibromyalgia among other conditions so I can relate to how debilitating that is for you she also has mobility issues due to many different conditions.

Have you got any other forms of support family or anyone else who can help you in any way?

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I can see where you are right now, I've had contact with a social worker who helped when I was trying to keep my job. I can't get a personal social worker for my daily needs but he has helped where he can on certain issues I've needed help with.

I was still dismissed on incapacity but he tried sometimes an employer is determined to dismiss you doesn't matter about anything else I'd been there or a long time but as soon as I was diagnosed within a year I was gone.

My partner has fibromyalgia among other conditions so I can relate to how debilitating that is for you she also has mobility issues due to many different conditions.

Have you got any other forms of support family or anyone else who can help you in any way?

I qualify because. I have majority of substantial needs. No family support.

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I have a mild learning disability and also have substantial needs so have a social worker and a care budget paid for from the LD team.

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I qualify because. I have majority of substantial needs. No family support.

I was told by the social worker that because there is no money only the very worst cases are getting anything. Even though I have a need in his opinion won't get it not because I wouldn't qualify but because there is no money. I used to be looked after by my parents but my father died and mum is now too old and has her own health issues now. My partner ensures I don't make bad decisions but she is disabled herself about two years ago so she can only do so much.

He said he could enrole me but I would have to go through the interviews which I would struggle to do he left the decision to me but knowing I won't get any help it's making me reluctant to try.

Edited by trekster

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I have a mild learning disability and also have substantial needs so have a social worker and a care budget paid for from the LD team.

Do you manage your own budget. Are you capable to direct your own affairs, I have difficulty in making good decisions I have the tendency to do things that are not for the best.

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At least you do qualify I was told by the social worker that because there is no money only the very worst cases are getting anything. Even though I have a need in his opinion won't get it not because I wouldn't qualify but because there is no money. I used to be looked after by my parents but my father died and mum is now too old and has her own health issues now. My partner ensures I don't make bad decisions but she is disabled herself about two years ago so she can only do so much.

He said he could enrole me but I would have to go through the interviews which I would struggle to do he left the decision to me but knowing I won't get any help it's making me reluctant to try.

 

Money is only the issue with the needs criteria. Its wrong of them if your needs have come out being the majority of having substantial needs, but even if you don't meet there criteria they should be looking for outside help as they cannot help you.

 

I live on my own, I am not allowed to if I don't have the learning disability team involved. I am vulnerable where I live too, so the police come out when I am feeling scared. I get unwell at night so the NHS has to get involved.

 

I am unable to live without support. I need help around the flat a lot of the time, even cooking safely.

 

I am socially isolated and have no family support.

 

I am a high risk of things happening to me, and my mental health

I am a high risk for self neglect

 

But I also not able to physically manage around the flat with the cleaning, house work and even my personal care.

 

I will be getting direct payments if is approved and will have to contribute to that amount

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The positive thing is that you are able to live with this support, I have no doubt that you would wish it to be better than it is for you but you are managing the best you can and that is all anybody can do anywhere.

From what you have said I think your doing well and it's good your determination to overcome what you see as issues is strong your doing well.

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I can see where you are right now, I've had contact with a social worker who helped when I was trying to keep my job. I can't get a personal social worker for my daily needs but he has helped where he can on certain issues I've needed help with.

I was still dismissed on incapacity but he tried sometimes an employer is determined to dismiss you doesn't matter about anything else I'd been there or a long time but as soon as I was diagnosed within a year I was gone.

My partner has fibromyalgia among other conditions so I can relate to how debilitating that is for you she also has mobility issues due to many different conditions.

Have you got any other forms of support family or anyone else who can help you in any way?

 

Can you get help from BASS or the create centre in Bristol? Can you claim carers allowance for looking after your partner or your partner after you?

The fibromyalgia group is quite active in Bristol and on facebook, i highly recommend them if you can attend their coffee mornings.

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Can you get help from BASS or the create centre in Bristol? Can you claim carers allowance for looking after your partner or your partner after you?

The fibromyalgia group is quite active in Bristol and on facebook, i highly recommend them if you can attend their coffee mornings.

Because of where I live I have to attend the group thats based in yate which is a two bus journey trip from where I live. I have trouble traveling on busses alone not to bad if the bus is not full but when it's busy I have problems in feeling confined enclosed and anybody sitting next to me id rather get off and walk.

It's getting there that's the problem not the service itself, I can drive but had to sell my car when I lost my job . I have never faced travel problems before having always driven but now I havent any choice. I walk where I can but avoid doing anything which means using busses, I have and do use them but many times I get off and walk which I cant do going to yate it's just too far.

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Could you get a pushbike and cycle to Yate? If you are a student at UWE (or have been) there is an autism group there as well.

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I

Could you get a pushbike and cycle to Yate? If you are a student at UWE (or have been) there is an autism group there as well.

I'm forty nine and even though my fitness levels are improving I don't think I would fit enough to cycle all that way to yate it would be about a sixteen mile trip there and back again , I had considered that as an option but family said I would be silly to even try.

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Livelife said:

 

When you do not have the correct help and support depression anxiety stress will increase introducing physical symptoms into an already difficult life in just managing on a day to day basis.

This is my experience I have specific limitations that I can operate within sometimes very effectively but for the vast majority of time people expect more than is possible pushing you into impossible situations and then when you experience meltdowns or unable to cope they look at you as some kind of off world species. To a degree I would say I feel like that, I don't belong in their society because I'm not welcomed into it for who I am I need to change which I can't do I've been this way all my life.

This whole way of treatment creates stress and everything associated with it effecting my coping abilitys to function and exaggerating my traits or making them more noticeable because of meltdowns.

 

If there is to be a better life for people on the autistic spectrum people need to know and understand we can't be changed and just to except us for who we are, we do have a lot to offer society if only we were given the chance.

This is all so very true of my own experience. Exactly how I feel. Luckily I now at last have both a social worker and a support worker who are visiting me weekly at present. Because it's taken so long to get this support, my mental health has badly deteriorated, and I now need more support than I would have done a year or so ago.

ST123 said:

I live on my own, I am not allowed to if I don't have the learning disability team involved. I am vulnerable where I live too, so the police come out when I am feeling scared.

 

I live on my own too, feel very vulnerable (especially when in towns), never go out at night, etc. I wish I had police protection, for I've had nothing but harassment from them for years. Their generally ignorant and uncaring behaviour only exacerbates my difficulties, but maybe now that I'm diagnosed things will change for the better.

 

I am unable to live without support. I need help around the flat a lot of the time, even cooking safely.

I need help mainly in the area of executive dysfunction, but due to increased stress levels shopping is becoming a big problem. I tend to neglect my diet and eat the same things most of the time - and very little too. After a blood test showed that my iron levels were low, I'm trying to eat better and cook a little more, but I may easily lapse into old habits.

 

I am socially isolated and have no family support. Same here.

 

I am a high risk of things happening to me, and my mental health. Same here. The causes of my anxiety need to be kept down.

But I also not able to physically manage around the flat with the cleaning, house work and even my personal care.
Unlike you, I do still manage this part of living - but sometimes I feel only just.

Edited by Mihaela

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I find that one task I can do one day becomes much harder and causes a lot of frustration another that leads to anxiety and even meltdowns.

I can't exceed my limitations and I don't try to anymore I find I'm a lot calmer and manage what I can do better and go longer without any problems it's always better to try to manage a situation than react to one especially when you know it won't probably turn out well if you don't.

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Yes i have that problem as well due to my phyiscial pain issues.

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Yes i have that problem as well due to my phyiscial pain issues.

Are you on medication for the pain and any exercise program, if so do you find they make any difference.

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Livelife said:

 

When you do not have the correct help and support depression anxiety stress will increase introducing physical symptoms into an already difficult life in just managing on a day to day basis.

This is my experience I have specific limitations that I can operate within sometimes very effectively but for the vast majority of time people expect more than is possible pushing you into impossible situations and then when you experience meltdowns or unable to cope they look at you as some kind of off world species. To a degree I would say I feel like that, I don't belong in their society because I'm not welcomed into it for who I am I need to change which I can't do I've been this way all my life.

This whole way of treatment creates stress and everything associated with it effecting my coping abilitys to function and exaggerating my traits or making them more noticeable because of meltdowns.

 

If there is to be a better life for people on the autistic spectrum people need to know and understand we can't be changed and just to except us for who we are, we do have a lot to offer society if only we were given the chance.

 

This is all so very true of my own experience. Exactly how I feel. Luckily I now at last have both a social worker and a support worker who are visiting me weekly at present. Because it's taken so long to get this support, my mental health has badly deteriorated, and I now need more support than I would have done a year or so ago.

 

ST123 said:

I live on my own, I am not allowed to if I don't have the learning disability team involved. I am vulnerable where I live too, so the police come out when I am feeling scared.

 

I live on my own too, feel very vulnerable (especially when in towns), never go out at night, etc. I wish I had police protection, for I've had nothing but harassment from them for years. Their generally ignorant and uncaring behaviour only exacerbates my difficulties, but maybe now that I'm diagnosed things will change for the better.

 

I am unable to live without support. I need help around the flat a lot of the time, even cooking safely.

 

I need help mainly in the area of executive dysfunction, but due to increased stress levels shopping is becoming a big problem. I tend to neglect my diet and eat the same things most of the time - and very little too. After a blood test showed that my iron levels were low, I'm trying to eat better and cook a little more, but I may easily lapse into old habits.

 

I am socially isolated and have no family support. Same here.

 

I am a high risk of things happening to me, and my mental health. Same here. The causes of my anxiety need to be kept down.

 

But I also not able to physically manage around the flat with the cleaning, house work and even my personal care.

Unlike you, I do still manage this part of living - but sometimes I feel only just.

 

 

I have substantial needs in the areas of Abuse/has occured will occur and self neglect

Substantial needs in Capacity to make decisions

Substantial needs in the fact the family is unable to support me

Substantial needs in majority of my house hold tasks and personal care is unable to be taken

 

I live in an area where i am vulnerable and i mean the area has been people persistently harass me where i live. I had money, stolen parcels in my area taken from me. I had people bang on my window to scare me. I have so many issues in this area the police agree that this property and area is not appropriate for me.

 

My mental health issues are quite significant so they have got involved and referred me to psychologist for learning disabilities.

 

I have home help do my cleaning for me, but social services identified i need more help in so they will be doing a financial assessment soon.

 

They have idenfied i need to go to a day centre.

 

Majority of the time my personal care, house hold jobs and cooking is not unable to be done by me. They have idenfified i need someone to do my shopping and my cooking for me as its dangerous as i have frequent accidents.

 

They identified i need help with making new friends and the potential dangers.

 

They have taken into account all my mental health and physical difficulties in all this too and my vulnerabilities. Police are frequently involved and they had to come out when i been in crisises as well as issues with other tenants/prowlers

 

They have idenfied they need to find ways so i can manage to eat and not risk of having ED behaviours too.

 

They have idenfied they need to help me with my personal care and get OT to assess me

 

They idenfied my family are unable to support me with my problems

Edited by Special_talent123

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