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Should ASD people be allowed to be independent if they are vulnerable?

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Warning this is a LONG POST

 

In the past I have posted posts and started treads where I have spoken all about my views on people with various forms of Autism who 'show' their condition more than myself or some of my friends.

 

This may have made me seem a little judgmental and unfair, but the truth is that I am far from those kind of things indeed.

 

For example, I have a VERY close friend (we aren't together in case you were wondering, long story) who is not only a member of the transgender community but is also OS (Objectum Sexual, or at least I think that what it stands for) as he (for he was once a 'she' and a VERY macho one at that) is into robots, such as the Transformers and RoboCop and so will often use his toys (which he will often play with like a big kid) for sex for he has told me that OS people believe that objects have soul (an interesting concept in any case) and so thus he feels that when have he uses his toy of say Megatron, he is having sex with him.

 

Otherwise my friend is perfectly verbal, can go out on his own, is streetwise, is VERY clean and tidy (more so than me), can fix computers and do repair work on robots (he once worked behind the scenes on 'Robot Wars' as a volunteer for his uncle worked on the house robots for the show) knows a number of kinds of marshal arts, among other things...

 

I am not judgmental towards him one bit as I feel that he has 'proven' himself to be a good friend.

 

Granted I (and my friend) find it difficult to cope with those who have much lower functioning ability than I have or those who engage in far more 'challenging behaviors' than myself (I used to hit people, but I have stopped now, I only bellow when I have a meltdown now) as I tend to 'judge' people by their actions or behaviors and thus I expect people to act 'good' all of the time, even when they don't feel like it.

 

However my friend also knows his limits and so has long ago given up the idea of going to work or leaving the care company he is in, for he has a short fuse, is very strong, has no qualms about beating someone to a pulp, see's himself as something of a superhero and would most likely find himself in prison if he went to work and go involved in office politics.

 

Anyway I digress so now onto the point of my discussion.

 

My friend, although having a number of robot partners also has a boyfriend called Luke.

 

Luke is in his 30s, has a number of degrees and works full time.

 

However he still lives with his mum and dad, who have kept him at home as he has a lot of 'immature' or 'Autistic' behaviors, suchs as drinking out of coke bottles like a baby would, sticking his fingers in his ears when talking and also closing his eyes.

 

On top of that he doesn't change his underwear and hangs around with a man called Tim, who he likes to go bus and train trips together.

 

This would be fine save for the fact that when the bus is late Tim kicks off and calls the bus drivers (as in all of them not just the one driving the bus at the time) 'pedos' and runs away yelling 'bus drivers are pedos!' and sticking his fingers at them.

 

Luke is in the habit of following Tim when he does this, in some of the roughest parts of Liverpool....

 

For a while me and my friend thought that it would be a good idea that Luke be allowed to leave home and live on his own.

 

But when we last met him we also discovered that as well as being unwilling to change his ways he also is totally unable to defend himself as he does not know what to do if someone tried to attack him.

 

Granted I'm not the greatest fighter in the world (I come from a middle class background) but even I know how to push a thug to the floor and then run away!

 

Like on the other hand just let my friend take his phone when we tested him.

 

Now we feel that he should not be allowed to go out on his own or go to work, as he is THAT vulnerable.

 

This reminds me of a girl I once knew who was VERY naive, would over spend on her credit card and get herself into all kinds of situations where she'd have problems with her co-workers.

 

If I had my way I'd have had her kept on the premises of the group home she was living in and only allowed out with staff, banned from contact with certain members of her family (she did not get on with them) and forbidden to go to work.

 

This is not me being sexist or saying that people with ASDs should be forbidden from following their dreams, but rather in cases where the person is vulnerable enough more measures (than those which exist already) should be put in place to keep them safe.

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There are some very interesting points here that I want to comment on, but I have to go out now. I'll probably have a lot to say later though :)

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You're friend is a transsexual and it is impolite to refer to them as 'once a she'. To them they were always their true gender of he.

 

As for your question as independence means 'surviving by ones own means' and we will always need someone to help us, Drs, police, etc ie no one is an island I don't feel there is such a thing as independent. There is however semi independence which is something I can manage to a point.

 

I am a vulnerable adult and many autistics can be considered vulnerable adults due to the possibility of exploitation due to increased naivety.

 

With support some of us can live in our own homes, I know very few autistics who don't have friends, family or carers to rely on for support.

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I am a vulnerable adult and many autistics can be considered vulnerable adults due to the possibility of exploitation due to increased naivety.

 

With support some of us can live in our own homes, I know very few autistics who don't have friends, family or carers to rely on for support.

 

I am one of the few that has no support, sure I have loving parents but no friends, social work tells me I do not qualify for support(and even when I had it for a year it was useless treating me like a invalid unable to do anything than nuture my skills)

 

All I do is ring my parents a few times a week and have a hour talk on phone and if I dont ring for 2 or 3 days they ring me as they get worried.

 

Apart from that I basically rot away, my issue being that I am just on the spectrum and no more according to the doctors so I basically have the wants and needs of a non autistic but the "flaws" like getting confused easily, hating physical contact(but craving it at same time) having a vivid imagination but my brain gets rooted in reality so it makes me depressed.

 

I wouldnt say I was naive in the general sense its that I cant pick up on intention much so often go with the easiest option, if a beautiful girl chats me up I cant tell if she is being nice or fancies me, if I meet a rough person I cant tell if I should give them a chance or not(which is why I was burgled by junkies aged 20 despite benefits only being £15 a week at time as I was sanctioned again due to disability) burged for 3 years by drug dealing neighbour(it was my post, identity fraud, stolen giros etc)

 

Also it means I am friendly to everyone so males and females assume I am chatting them up so I cant make friends and the few autistic people I know I am uncomfortable around as they are more on the spectrum.

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Luke is in his 30s, has a number of degrees and works full time.



However he still lives with his mum and dad, who have kept him at home as he has a lot of 'immature' or 'Autistic' behaviors, suchs as drinking out of coke bottles like a baby would, sticking his fingers in his ears when talking and also closing his eyes.



Children often live with their parents into their 30's or later, a trend which is likely to increase in the future with the housing crisis in the UK more likely to worsen before it improves. For someone who claims to be non-judgmental you use a lot of judgmental language - 'such as drinking out of a coke bottle like a baby would' I would suggest if you see a baby drinking out of coke bottle the parents could do with parenting classes.



On top of that he doesn't change his underwear and hangs around with a man called Tim, who he likes to go bus and train trips together.



This would be fine save for the fact that when the bus is late Tim kicks off and... runs away..



Luke is in the habit of following Tim when he does this, in some of the roughest parts of Liverpool....



I will put some of this down to your middle class upbringing. My daughter travels independently and has done similar things as Luke, like pub crawling late at night looking for men in the West End of London when she was 15. My way of explaining the danger she put herself in when she followed an older friend who wanted to get the signatures of a band they had just seen at a gig. Her response when we stood on our balcony and watched a shooting was 'are those real guns?'



For a while me and my friend thought that it would be a good idea that Luke be allowed to leave home and live on his own.



But when we last met him we also discovered that as well as being unwilling to change his ways he also is totally unable to defend himself as he does not know what to do if someone tried to attack him.



I know a lot of NT people who are unwilling to change their ways.



Granted I'm not the greatest fighter in the world (I come from a middle class background) but even I know how to push a thug to the floor and then run away!



Like on the other hand just let my friend take his phone when we tested him.



Seems to me Luke passed the test. You complain that Luke follows his friend into some of the toughest parts of Liverpool, but you would rather see him risk getting beaten up than hand over a simple possession which could be easily replaced. My advice to my daughter is to give up what is asked for and we can replace them afterwards.



Now we feel that he should not be allowed to go out on his own or go to work, as he is THAT vulnerable.



Sorry but looking at what you have actually said I don't get your conclusion. The fact is Luke has achieved a high level of independence, all be it from still living with his parents. Nothing of what you have said suggests he cannot cope travelling on his own, the only example you have given is a potential to get into trouble when with a particular friend. He has a job, which you have not mentioned any particular incidents which would cause concern.

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With regards to Luke not being able to defend himself when mugged, the truth is that it was more of a problem with my friend, who I might add know several forms of marshal arts and would most likely put the scumbag in a coma if he/she tried it on him.

 

The main point of the OP was that as Luke (my friend split up with him recently by the way) 'stands out' more than some others I know with AS or Autism we were worried that he may be bullied or taken advantage of by less than moral people at work or in the street, and so should not be allowed out on his own unless he learns some more skills.

 

The same can be said of the girl I once knew as well, although she may have changed by now as it was some years ago when I last saw her.

 

Another point is that when Luke hangs around with Tim, he attracts negative attention to both himself and Luke with his behaviors (Tim has to live in a care home due to his issues and functioning capacity) which both me and my friend do in fact agree that he should stop hanging around with Tim.

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Thank you for the reply, and clarifying the main issue as you see it.

 

"stands out' more than some others I know with AS or Autism we were worried that he may be bullied or taken advantage of by less than moral people at work or in the street, and so should not be allowed out on his own unless he learns some more skills"

 

I don't know how many times I have heard this excuse as the reason given stopping young people with aspergers from going out and mixing with peers and others. Only for parents to complain later that their child has no friends and it gets them both down, and is often a source of depression.

 

As a father to daughter with Aspergers once she wanted that independence to go places on her own and to pursue her own interests I had these sort of issues to contend with. What if she was raped, attacked, snatched etc down to how I would feel if she was killed. A lot of the concerns were around the way she could be very vulnerable when something didn't go right. I didn't know if her first boyfriend or girlfriend would be a skater or biker. It turned out to be a skater dude called Pinky.

 

I didn't particularly approve of some of her friends or choices, like when she decided to go goth. But I always respected her choices and supported her, despite the many dangers I could forsee for her. Although nothing too bad has happened to her yet doesn't mean it won't in the future. If it does I will hopefully still be around to support her and help her.

 

Despite his vulnerabilities Luke obviously has some skills, maintaining a job for one. One of the best ways I know of developing skills is being out and there and learning. Sometime those lessons can take a while, and I'm sure his parents will continue to support him if something does go wrong.

 

As I said I do understand and appreciate your concerns, but my view is if a level of independence is achieved going backwards because of these is going in the wrong direction.

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Everything I have read shows the danger faced by autistic people from those that claim to be different or better in integrating into society.

You need independence and have a right to experience it but I don't think it can be done without a cost that has to be paid by the individual themselves or their family and careers.

There are many ways of looking at it and also lots of variables in situations but danger will always be greater because we are different so a natural target.

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