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      Depression, Mental Health and Crisis Support   06/04/2017

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georgiapiano

Undiagnosed - and this is me...what do you think?

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My cognitive behaviour therapist said after our second session he didn't think I have ASD. He told me that in our last session in a couple of weeks we'll put all the pieces of the jigsaw together and he thinks our work will be done. Good luck to him . I don't think he's expecting to be presented with this. This is my 'homework'. We've only touched on a few of these things. I've not been diagnosed yet and I'm 34. I'm pretty fed up with living in my head. What are your thoughts?

 

Love to all

 

Georgia xxx

 

20150720_2038111.jpg

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I had the last session with mine a couple of days after I'd done an online test. I told him about it, and he said he didn't know anything about Aspergers, so couldn't comment either way, but didn't disagree with me. I get the impression that a lot of people who claim to know about it don't have a clue, and that many people are experts in their own field, but know nothing about anything outside their experience, so either you've got what they know about or there's nothing wrong with you.

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You know I think the jigsaw concept is actually a very good idea, you've obviously put alot of thought into it. I can't really offer anything constructive because I'm dealing with my own 'jigsaw' at the moment but I think you've done a really good job and it shows alot of initiative and intelligence.

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ajl   

sounds like they are pushing for a diagnosis of borderline personality disorder. It is a real "condition" but basically means to the psychiatrists that you are a pain in the back side and attention seeking. Its a term used to describe me which I argued against and last month I got a diagnosis of ASD / aspergers. Its a case of meeting the right professional and in your area there is a specific service for diagnosis of ASD in adults (I'm 36). It has taken me 2 years to get that diagnosis but I think its just about helping me start making sense of myself and how I am and being a bit more accepting of myself

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Tomar   

Your picture is brilliant. If you ever do another one I would love to see it. How about doing one with ... music, fast cars, simple things ....

 

Good luck with the therapist

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sounds like they are pushing for a diagnosis of borderline personality disorder. It is a real "condition" but basically means to the psychiatrists that you are a pain in the back side and attention seeking. Its a term used to describe me which I argued against and last month I got a diagnosis of ASD / aspergers. Its a case of meeting the right professional and in your area there is a specific service for diagnosis of ASD in adults (I'm 36). It has taken me 2 years to get that diagnosis but I think its just about helping me start making sense of myself and how I am and being a bit more accepting of myself

 

 

Yeah some of it sounds that way but its possible to have Both.

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Livelife   

Many people are easily confused by autism and claim you cant have many other conditions, the only ones who know are those trained to assess autism in people councillors even doctors don't always recognise the condition.

Edited by trekster

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I had the last session with mine a couple of days after I'd done an online test. I told him about it, and he said he didn't know anything about Aspergers, so couldn't comment either way, but didn't disagree with me. I get the impression that a lot of people who claim to know about it don't have a clue, and that many people are experts in their own field, but know nothing about anything outside their experience, so either you've got what they know about or there's nothing wrong with you.

 

 

I had the last session with mine a couple of days after I'd done an online test. I told him about it, and he said he didn't know anything about Aspergers, so couldn't comment either way, but didn't disagree with me. I get the impression that a lot of people who claim to know about it don't have a clue, and that many people are experts in their own field, but know nothing about anything outside their experience, so either you've got what they know about or there's nothing wrong with you.

Thank you for your reply. I totally agree with you. I feel like I'm being completely fobbed off left, right and centre. I'm trying all angles to get a diagnosis and it seems like a real battle. I assume you've not been diagnosed either, and looking to be diagnosed? Xx

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You know I think the jigsaw concept is actually a very good idea, you've obviously put alot of thought into it. I can't really offer anything constructive because I'm dealing with my own 'jigsaw' at the moment but I think you've done a really good job and it shows alot of initiative and intelligence.

Thank you so much. It's a real compliment. It's not often someone calls me intelligent. I did it because I've had 5 sessions with my cognitive behavioural therapist and still don't feel like I'm getting anywhere - if anything I'm even more confused. There is so much going on. I asked him if we could end on our last session by putting all the pieces together (a lot of which we haven't even talked about yet!!) I think he's going to be surprised with what I present to him. I hope so really. I need to get a diagnosis so that I can move forward and accept that ASD is part of me, rather than feeling all these crazy feelings all the time and feeling like I'm nuts!

 

Good luck with your own jigsaw hun. Maybe you should start small - step by step. Create one piece at a time - put each piece in one place - and over time, once you have a collection you can use it to help you? Have you been diagnosed yet? xx

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sounds like they are pushing for a diagnosis of borderline personality disorder. It is a real "condition" but basically means to the psychiatrists that you are a pain in the back side and attention seeking. Its a term used to describe me which I argued against and last month I got a diagnosis of ASD / aspergers. Its a case of meeting the right professional and in your area there is a specific service for diagnosis of ASD in adults (I'm 36). It has taken me 2 years to get that diagnosis but I think its just about helping me start making sense of myself and how I am and being a bit more accepting of myself

Congratulations on finally getting your diagnosis - and thank you for your reply. You know what, I have spent my whole life since late teens in mental turmoil. I was referred to a psychiatrist 10 years ago who also diagnosed me with "personality disorder" - following this, I continued my life feeling absolutely awful - hopeless, self harming, over-dosing on one occasion, avoiding anyone who actually cared about me, being a total recluse - but still being very excellent at my job as a professional!! And then I had children, which is the most amazing thing that has happened to me - and I still continue to live in turmoil. I agree with you wholeheartedly that it is just a fob off! I think I'm a nice person - there are so many good things about me - but I'm just always misunderstood all the time because I feel so awkward being open and myself around people. Nobody actually knows the real me apart from my partner. Thank you for your reply. All the support on here is making me so much more determined and so much for accepting of myself.

 

Georgia xx

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Your picture is brilliant. If you ever do another one I would love to see it. How about doing one with ... music, fast cars, simple things ....

 

Good luck with the therapist

Thank you. Ha, the art of positive thinking. I missed that out of my jigsaw. The point of my jigsaw is for my CB therapist to see everything that happens in my head. If I'd done the jigsaw for me, then my positives would be included on there. Just because you have, or believe you have, ASD absolutely does NOT mean you don't experience happy things. In fact, in my experience, the happy, good things are intensified massively! Because of the angst and mental turmoil, the good things feel 100 times more amazing :D:D

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ajl   

Just to make diagnosis more difficult the manual that sets out all the mental health conditions (ASD included) has recently changed and aspergers no longer exists. It is clear that if you are on this board and communicating then you must be at the higher functioning end of the Autism scale but high functioning, aspergers etc all those terms no longer exist., You either have autism or not and people who are not trained think that you have to be at the severe learning difficulties end (which is actually not that many people) or have amazing powers of some kind. They don't realise its just because you think differently, see different things and process way to much information.

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Just to make diagnosis more difficult the manual that sets out all the mental health conditions (ASD included) has recently changed and aspergers no longer exists. It is clear that if you are on this board and communicating then you must be at the higher functioning end of the Autism scale but high functioning, aspergers etc all those terms no longer exist., You either have autism or not and people who are not trained think that you have to be at the severe learning difficulties end (which is actually not that many people) or have amazing powers of some kind. They don't realise its just because you think differently, see different things and process way to much information.

I appear normal, but find life day to day so difficult in so many ways. My online tests came out with scores on the ASD scale but on the lower end, making me higher functioning. People expect so much from me, and I cannot deliver. I feel so much pressure to just perform on a daily basis. But I do it. And I do it well. It destroys me. I'm ill a lot, I have extreme meltdowns and often I'm tearful.

I just read some stuff about diagnosis. And how it can affect your job. I'm in a professional role which could be affected by a diagnosis. I love my job and I'm very good at it. It's one thing that keeps me functioning. I don't know what to do know. I feel I need diagnosis for peace of mind but if it affected my job it would ruin my life! Argh!!

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Thank you for your reply. I totally agree with you. I feel like I'm being completely fobbed off left, right and centre. I'm trying all angles to get a diagnosis and it seems like a real battle. I assume you've not been diagnosed either, and looking to be diagnosed? Xx

I'm 7 months into what is supposed to be a 10 month wait for a diagnosis. I'm assuming they're good at doing the actual diagnosis, but they don't seem to have a clue about the effect that waiting for it without any communication or support has. They were asked some weeks ago for an idea of when it would happen, but I've heard nothing.

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Livelife   

You won't know the consequences on your job until the situation arises. Be sure you can live with it whatever happens. I never considered the possibility that it could cost me my job but it did. It's a hard decision to make.

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ajl   

You aren't obliged to tell your employer. If you do its a protected caricaturist of your disability and its discrimination if they do anything to you. But them even knowing might jeopardise your promotion prospects. If you are good at your job just don't tell them.

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Livelife   

No you not obliged to tell your employer but it absolves them from any wrong doing if you don't. Unless you tell them anything that occurs because of the condition they have no responsibility for and you have no claim for unfair dismissal or discrimination because they will claim that they were unaware of your needs and would have acted differently if you had told them.

Also if you are applying for work and are asked on the medical questionnaire and do not inform them then you can be dismissed by them for not informing them of your condition potentially getting the job by deception.

They claim they can't insure your safety without knowing your medical history so it's a breech of health and safety regulations putting yourself and others at risk.

If you do tell them then your in trouble anyway because if you have help and assistance the nature of Autism is that it's difficult to know how you will react because of meltdowns or if somebody confronts you how you will respond to it. That makes you a danger in the opinion of employers again because of health and safety as because of meltdowns and stress you are at best unpredictable.

Who says about the unpredictability that was a social worker to an employer, employer then has to suspend you pending medical assessment but as the original comment was from a social worker dealing with autism then they have to listen to the professionals it's totally irrelevant that I had been doing the job for nearly ten years.

Then they wonder why only 10 to 15 percent of people with autism are employed but they can find you voluntary work but nothing that will pay you.

Forget fairness if your older I would say over 40 do not bother with an assessment as you have managed so long without one. It may give you answers or even make you feel better for knowing but it will make every other part of your life unbearable may even cost you your job. You have to remember it's not your reactions that counts it's other people's and you have no control over that, if your employer wants to get rid of you you have given them the perfect reason.

Forget the employment law it sounds nice but doesn't work, ask the 85 to 90 percent of people not working.

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I'm not sure that not bothering with an assessment if you're over 40 is a good idea. If you've managed that long without one it doesn't mean that it's not gradually grinding you down, and it will start having more serious effects as you get older. I've been self-employed for years, so don't have the employers problem, but it's only through discovering my potential Aspergers that I'm realising why I haven't been able to work and earn any money for a long time, and that I made some big life changing decisions that have gone wrong, I think, because I wasn't aware that I think differently, and don't read people as well as I thought I did. If I'd known about Aspergers when I was in my early 40s, I hope I'd have done things differently since then, as I'm pretty convinced I wouldn't be stuck in the situation I'm in now if I'd known.

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Livelife   

It will obviously be a very personal decision on what anybody thinks is best for them and they must do what they think is right for them.

I can see the points your making and they are valid reasons but this world is not yet ready for us, people say they are and there is no doubt things are better than they were but it hasn't gotten anywhere near meeting our needs.

If I make a mistake then it's my responsibility everybody makes mistakes that isn't unique to our condition that is something we need to learn to live with.

What is wrong is what happens outside of our control, people who knew you once they know treat you differently it appears odd is ok can be eccentric but that's you. Now if your autistic that's a label that people will judge you on for life.

If you can remain self employed for life then that's fine at least you haven't got the issues that surround employment but should you have to find paid work it will not be easy and somebody in their fifties with autism will find it very difficult to find work when fit thirty year olds are unemployed.

Life gets harder but I don't think that's age related unless you have specific medical conditions that effect you. It's the reduction in support and services everybody is experiencing this whatever age they are.

There is no avoiding it, having the condition makes life harder because of the way society treats us its not problems of our own making. If people think your odd strange your tolerated to a point, tell them I am autistic then your labelled and while doing a job they let you get on with it. But when your autistic your effected by laws so people make decisions about you without any consultation they talk about you as if you are not there as to whether your capable of doing things doesn't matter that you have already been doing them. They now have to decide if having autism means your safe to continue doing them due to health and safety regulations that didn't apply to you before the diagnosis.

It's somebody's decision what they do but if you decide to get the assessment be prepared to become subject to rules and regulations you didn't know existed.

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I think I'm going to self-diagnose myself. My job is so important - I'm good at it. If I lost my job because of a diagnosis I'd be destroyed. Is it ok to diagnose yourself? How sure can you be on a self-diagnosis? I've done loads of reading and online tests, so I can be pretty sure. It just feels a bit weird to diagnose yourself. Also, it will have an impact on my already dodgy relationships with my family. I can't honestly imagine saying to my mum "Mum, I have ASD - I'm not diagnosed, I've diagnosed myself. My reasons are...."

I can just see how this will end. She will laugh at me, tell me I'm fine, there is nothing wrong...blahhhh, blahhhh, blahhh blahhhh .....

Annoyed.

 

WHY is there so little support and so little understanding about ASD out there!! ??? I'm really frustrated!!

 

Love to you all on here xxx

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Livelife   

I think I'm going to self-diagnose myself. My job is so important - I'm good at it. If I lost my job because of a diagnosis I'd be destroyed. Is it ok to diagnose yourself? How sure can you be on a self-diagnosis? I've done loads of reading and online tests, so I can be pretty sure. It just feels a bit weird to diagnose yourself. Also, it will have an impact on my already dodgy relationships with my family. I can't honestly imagine saying to my mum "Mum, I have ASD - I'm not diagnosed, I've diagnosed myself. My reasons are...."

I can just see how this will end. She will laugh at me, tell me I'm fine, there is nothing wrong...blahhhh, blahhhh, blahhh blahhhh .....

Annoyed.

 

WHY is there so little support and so little understanding about ASD out there!! ??? I'm really frustrated!!

 

Love to you all on here xxx

Family can be difficult when it concerns autism sometimes they don't understand or don't want to understand or are happy remaining in denial. This doesn't help anybody so while you do feel you need support sometimes you have to look outside of the family I wish it wasn't this way but for some people it is unfortunately.

When you say your going to self diagnosed I think you already know the answer most people do you know something is wrong and the endless problems in society give you enough evidence to show you it doesn't always take somebody who claims to be an expert to confirm what you already know.

If there was a great deal of help available services that could make a difference then I would suggest it would be worth doing but unfortunate there is very little help available.

If your high functioning or have a job you are virtually left without any support there are centres but they may not be in your area or if your working how can you attend weekly meetings when your supposed to be working.

I can understand your frustrations a lot of us feel that that's why groups such as this can be very useful.

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Livelife   

There is little support for asd in adults wether you are diagnosed or not sadly.

I have to agree with you there support is very limited the fact is its still a very little understood condition and I don't think it's realised the support some people really need.

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Thanks everybody for all your comments.

 

Here's an update. I had my last session with the CMHT yesterday. He was trying to suggest (in a round about way) that I did have borderline personality disorder. I argued with him, saying that I didn't agree (or like for that matter!) the term "personality disorder" and that I don't believe such a thing exists. I told him I believe that because I don't "choose" to be like I am. Telling me I have a personality disorder? Really? So how does that help exactly?! It just makes me feel bleeding well worse thank you very much.

I told him about ASD - He argued he didn't think I had ASD. When I then went on to explain about higher functioning ASD and women, and how so many go undiagnosed and...I then went on to talk a lot about HF ASD and women - he then said, "oh, I don't know much about higher functioning ASD".

We concluded by agreeing to disagree, and that I will accept my condition and travel my journey in my own way. I have decided I do not want a diagnosis because of the affect it may have on my job.

 

Thanks again everyone xxx

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I think I'm going to self-diagnose myself. My job is so important - I'm good at it. If I lost my job because of a diagnosis I'd be destroyed. Is it ok to diagnose yourself? How sure can you be on a self-diagnosis? I've done loads of reading and online tests, so I can be pretty sure. It just feels a bit weird to diagnose yourself. Also, it will have an impact on my already dodgy relationships with my family. I can't honestly imagine saying to my mum "Mum, I have ASD - I'm not diagnosed, I've diagnosed myself. My reasons are...."

I can just see how this will end. She will laugh at me, tell me I'm fine, there is nothing wrong...blahhhh, blahhhh, blahhh blahhhh .....

Annoyed.

 

WHY is there so little support and so little understanding about ASD out there!! ??? I'm really frustrated!!

 

Love to you all on here xxx

 

I think that self diagnosis is just to appease one's self. so you can know yourself better not for others benefits

 

I am also currently self diagnosed, and will probably face accusations of BPD, but I also know myself and know that I do not do the things I do on purpose which apparently PD's do

 

I am different, not deliberately annoying.

 

sometimes my level of intellect annoys people, that's not PD

 

I think they might prefer diagnosis of PD because it can be cured, and they prefer to think that everyone can be 'cured' (once again reminding me of an X-men film)

 

perhaps NT's who are not so HF cannot conceive how others can be 'special' with their differences, and not just either disabled or PD

 

my gf works in medium secure unit with PD's all day and says the PD's deliberately pick on the people with learning disabilities and take advantage of their simplicity and when they take things literally as I do

 

she says the PD's don't even get treated in Scotland because they don't recognoise it as a proper mental illness and they just get sent away to deal with on their own with meds

 

im worried of similar misdiagnosis, ive been sent away with just plain anxiety and depression many times, as there is much in my history to be bothered about, but I KNOW its not that, I 'know myself', as the Oracle says to Neo in the Matrix. I know its more than that. AS with Dyslexia fits me perfectly and wont be happy being told any otherwise.

 

and so should you know yourself, but only for yourself, and your loved ones

 

wether we should need or want diagnosis to prove it for any other reason I guess is both subjective and circumstantial

 

in any case best of luck to us all

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I think that self diagnosis is just to appease one's self. so you can know yourself better not for others benefits

 

I am also currently self diagnosed, and will probably face accusations of BPD, but I also know myself and know that I do not do the things I do on purpose which apparently PD's do

 

I am different, not deliberately annoying.

 

sometimes my level of intellect annoys people, that's not PD

 

I think they might prefer diagnosis of PD because it can be cured, and they prefer to think that everyone can be 'cured' (once again reminding me of an X-men film)

 

perhaps NT's who are not so HF cannot conceive how others can be 'special' with their differences, and not just either disabled or PD

 

my gf works in medium secure unit with PD's all day and says the PD's deliberately pick on the people with learning disabilities and take advantage of their simplicity and when they take things literally as I do

 

she says the PD's don't even get treated in Scotland because they don't recognoise it as a proper mental illness and they just get sent away to deal with on their own with meds

 

im worried of similar misdiagnosis, ive been sent away with just plain anxiety and depression many times, as there is much in my history to be bothered about, but I KNOW its not that, I 'know myself', as the Oracle says to Neo in the Matrix. I know its more than that. AS with Dyslexia fits me perfectly and wont be happy being told any otherwise.

 

and so should you know yourself, but only for yourself, and your loved ones

 

wether we should need or want diagnosis to prove it for any other reason I guess is both subjective and circumstantial

 

in any case best of luck to us all

You know what? I'm happy to be self-diagnosed. I've lost faith in the mental health services and I believe that more research into the whole ASD and autism spectrum needs to be done. Not enough is understood and there are too many people out here suffering without knowing what the hell is wrong with them. I just think now, I know myself better than anyone, better than any medical/mental health professional. No-one will ever know me like me, so what is the point? As difficult as it is, functioning daily in a very busy life and having a professional career, the rewards I get from this are intensely satisfying. I feel such a strong person.

And so yes, you should know yourself - and only for yourself. I couldn't agree more. If no-one else will take the effort to really understand, or even believe you, then stuff them. You don't wallow, you get on with it. And you know what? I feel blessed to be unique, mysterious, quirky, talented, a dark horse. I wouldn't have me any other way. And another thing - you only have very few people close to your heart, but those people are REALLY close to your heart and it's hard to believe anyone could have anything closer. Xxx

 

 

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ajl   

well said Georgia

I have been through / am still going through the MH services and they are all about giving you more medication to shut you up

I've always known there was something wrong with me I just didn't know what as if I tried hard enough I could just about fool everyone except myself that there was nothing wrong with me.

I worked out a few years back that the only person who really cared about me was me. I am happy being me even if it is hard sometimes

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well said Georgia

I have been through / am still going through the MH services and they are all about giving you more medication to shut you up

I've always known there was something wrong with me I just didn't know what as if I tried hard enough I could just about fool everyone except myself that there was nothing wrong with me.

I worked out a few years back that the only person who really cared about me was me. I am happy being me even if it is hard sometimes

 

Sod them, ajl. I always refused to take medication, as deep down I always knew I wasn't actually suffering with depression, which is what the doctors said. In fact, at one point I was on fluoxetine. It wasn't working. I still felt rubbish. I went back to the doctors. He upped my dose. A few days later I smashed up my house, kicking in the glass doors and everything. Lost it. So since then I have never touched another anti-depressant. Obviously that was NOT what I needed. Now I have a fear of taking any tablets for ANYTHING unless it's a matter of life or death because I'm scared of its side effects.

 

I've known there was something 'different' about me all my life. I've known I have ASD only for a few months. Self diagnosed. It does make you a stronger person and you form the best relationships ever by being this way. That's my experience anyway. All or nothing ;)

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Mihaela   

I've lost faith in the mental health services and I believe that more research into the whole ASD and autism spectrum needs to be done. Not enough is understood and there are too many people out here suffering without knowing what the hell is wrong with them.

 

So true. I've lost faith in most people who are paid to be 'experts' or 'authorities'. I find that their expertise is often very limited and narrow. They all sing out of the same hymn book, and find it hard to imagine that not all of us can be pigeon-holed so easily. The fact that 'female-type' Asperger's syndrome isn't strictly confined to females and isn't even strictly Asperger's syndrome - but something without an adequate name certainly exists, speaks volumes for their professional competence. Diagnosing us with BPD, the standard catch-all PD, makes life easier for them, but not for us. I was lucky in that I was diagnosed as being on the autistic spectrum, and they said at the time that things will have to change with the increasing numbers of patients who present with 'FTAS'. Meanwhile, the suffering and misdiagnoses continue.

 

I just think now, I know myself better than anyone, better than any medical/mental health professional. No-one will ever know me like me, so what is the point? As difficult as it is, functioning daily in a very busy life and having a professional career, the rewards I get from this are intensely satisfying. I feel such a strong person.

 

One characteristic of AS, and maybe especially FTAS is that we are 'psychologically minded' - highly introspective, so yes, we know and understand ourselves better than any 'expert' could know us (and especially over a mere couple of hours!). People with LF autism, PD's or psychoses lack this ability for introspection. Their lack of self-understanding requires others to interpret/analyse their problems, and this is really the 'bread-and-butter' of psychiatry. Psychiatrists are unlikely to meet many people who understand ourselves as well as we do. In the past they've even hinted that I was arrogant and had delusions of grandeur - simply for daring to analyse myself! They see this as a threat to their expertise. Thanks to the internet we now know a lot more about psychiatry and how hit-and-miss it can be.

 

Yes, it makes us strong. I've suffered many traumas in my life, due to NT 'misunderstandings' and generally being different. Each one, although horrific and debilitating at the time, makes me stronger, and more willing to fight ignorance.

 

And so yes, you should know yourself - and only for yourself.

 

And BE yourself too!

If no-one else will take the effort to really understand, or even believe you, then stuff them.

 

Exactly!!

 

I feel blessed to be unique, mysterious, quirky, talented, a dark horse. I wouldn't have me any other way.

 

And another thing - you only have very few people close to your heart, but those people are REALLY close to your heart and it's hard to believe anyone could have anything closer.

Lovely words - from one unique, mysterious, quirky, talented dark house to another!

 

And another thing - you only have very few people close to your heart, but those people are REALLY close to your heart and it's hard to believe anyone could have anything closer.

 

I no longer have anyone really close to my heart, and due to my executive dysfunction, I do unfortunately need support. That's why I sought a diagnosis, although so far, support has been minimal - which isn't good enough for problems will only pile up in the future.

 

 

Sod them, ajl. I always refused to take medication, as deep down I always knew I wasn't actually suffering with depression, which is what the doctors said. In fact, at one point I was on fluoxetine. It wasn't working. I still felt rubbish. I went back to the doctors. He upped my dose. A few days later I smashed up my house, kicking in the glass doors and everything. Lost it. So since then I have never touched another anti-depressant. Obviously that was NOT what I needed. Now I have a fear of taking any tablets for ANYTHING unless it's a matter of life or death because I'm scared of its side effects.

 

I've known there was something 'different' about me all my life. I've known I have ASD only for a few months.

I never took medication, although prescribed it for depression. My only medication comes from being inspired by beauty in all its forms. That's all I need. Chemicals would damage my relationship with my true self. Same here about knowing that we're different. I knew this by the time I was four, and so did my parents. I've never regretted being different, although I used to pretend to be 'normal' when with others, but it never quite worked. ;)

Edited by Mihaela

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gmboy   

Just a quick note to say thanks to georgiapiano. The puzzle drawing you posted at the start of the thread helped me to realise that a more pictorial way of recording my thoughts and experiences would be helpful for me. A linear process (especially spoken) has led me to feel like there is just an enormous tangle of thoughts, tangents and related issues in my mind. It looks like loosely gathered wool! Also, thanks for updating on the outcome of your final CBT session. It would've been a complete "cliff-hanger" without that info.

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