education provision

[desperate]

Hi all,

 

I have been engaged in discussions for some time now with Nigel Fulton, DFES, about the provision for our ASD young people. After telling him that:-

 

Mainstream ---- children can't cope and get withdrawn from school, or excluded.

 

ASD unit attatched to mainstream ------- 80% of the day spent in mainstream classes, results the same as mainstream.

 

State special school ---- ASD children not accepted as "too bright".

 

Pupil referral unit---- Not suitable for ASD children due to nature of most other students.

 

Home education---- ASD children do not get the social interaction and therapy needed to ensure potential reached.

 

Independent special school--- not governed by legislation that governs state schools. Exclusions have almost no redress by parents. Needs not met for many ASD children, therapy and provision not very satisfactory.

 

He is happy to tell me that only 30% of parents are not happy with the provision given to their children. That is 3 out of every ten. This number also does not include those children who are not in the school system(home educated by parents).

 

I am trying hard to get these people to realise that they are not addressing the needs of these kids, and are leaving them very short of the help needed for them to "cope" in the adult world.

[annie]

Hi Desperate,

 

I'd would be interested to know how or where he got his figure of 30% of parents that are not happy with their children's provision.

 

We keep hearing percentages like this, but I've never been asked and I don't know anybody else who has.

 

My son's (ex) school was a mainstream with an ASD unit attached. He had a place in it, an LEA panel decided on that, but he was only allowed to use it as a form of punishment at breaktimes. The school always told me that he was too bright for the unit and I didn't understand what the purpose of it was.

 

My son is now doing 'Education other than at school'. He is working in small groups of 5 or 6 children and the teachers are fantastic. It has worked out really well. All the children on it cannot cope with school for one reason on another. I would recommend it. I believe that not all LEA's do it, which is a shame.

 

Annie

XX

[Brook]

Annie,

 

what is 'education other than at school'?

 

Brook

 

[oracle]

I do not know how Nigel Fulton can say this when AIM passed over a very comprehensive dossier which fully documented the concerns of parents regarding educational provision. Where do these figures come from? Much of the information which Nigel was given came from this very forum with the permission of the parents who post here - all anyone would need to do is to actually visit this forum any day of the week to see that the picture for our kids is far from bright.

 

This has really made me very angry and it also makes you wonder why you bother passing the damn information on to these people.

 

And worse still is the news that the new SEN Minister Lord Adonis is too busy to continue meeting with AIM,NAS and PACE and as told us to take up our concerns with guess who Nigel Fulton and the DFES

 

Carole

[annie]

Hi Brook,

 

I don't know if every LEA does it, but Education Other Than At School is arranged through Pupil Support Services. It's Paid for by the LEA.

 

What it is, is small teaching groups of about 5 or 6 pupils. Or as Alex did before, a few home tutor lessons as well.

 

The lessons are not done in school, but in places like youth clubs or a subject like IT is done in an internet cafe.

 

All of the children who do it cannot fit into school for one reason or another, not just SEN.

 

The teachers are fantastic, they all love what they do. The kids don't play up or argue because with 5 or 6 in a lesson there's no-one to impress.

 

I'm not sure how old the children are when they can start it, but Alex first did it when he was 13.

 

We found out about it through our Parent Partnership when we returned from Australia and couldn't get Alex into a school.

 

It's the best thing Alex has ever done as far as school goes. He's even getting good school reports.

 

Annie

<'> <'>

[TuX]

desperate,I went to a pupil referral unit,and wouldn't say it's as unsuitable as it might seem.

 

Class sizes are small,there were less than 5 people in my class.

1 to 1 education,working at own ability/level,rather than 1 level for the whole group so pupils do not struggle to keep with the rest-neither do pupils have to slow down.

Teachers and assistants-understanding and tolerant.

I think one of the problems is it's not meant as a permenent place of education,it's for reintroducing back into mainstream or special education,unless they have changed since I went,although at the unit i went to,they allowed me to stay there permenantly,I think it might differ on circumstances.

 

 

I do agree with you about ASDers not been catered for well,the 'specialists' assume autistic children without educational difficulties belong in mainstream,they don't understand that there is a lot more to school than just learning ability,if the ASD child has a high IQ,it will be no help whatsoever to them when they find they can't cope with the mainstream environment,way of life and bullying towards them because of the differences.

[Colin_and_Shelagh]

He is happy to tell me that only 30% of parents are not happy with the provision given to their children.

 

That's interesting because in the debate about special schools on 22 June Jacqui Smith said:

 

"Previous work by the (National Autistic) Society and by the all-party group

on autism has shown that about 80 per cent. of parents with autistic children

in mainstream education felt that they were getting very good support."

 

Perhaps they are referring to different sets of figures, or perhaps they made them up.

 

I think it's important that these sorts of figures are challenged because otherwise they become established as 'fact'. I emailed the DfES asking Jacqui Smith for the source of her figures but didn't get a reply. I've sent a follow-up.

 

Colin

[helenl53]

Hi Guys

 

I have spoken to the press office at NAS and said that we are getting nowhere on the source of this information.

 

I have stressed that it is having a detrimental effect on those of us who are struggling with education provision.

 

They are going to come back to me, hopefully today, so I will post if I find out any more info.

 

If it is unrelaiable information that was given during th debate, then I think it needs to be retracted.

 

HelenL

[mossgrove]

Although the NAS do some very good work, it has worries me for a while that they are too pro-establishment. I too have no idea how they came up with the fact that 80% of parents are happy with their mainstream provision. I do know parents who are happy woth the mainstream provision they get, but they are the exception not the rule.

 

Simon

[oracle]

I have a friend with AS who is very proactive and has been trying to find out about the source of this 80% quote from Jacqui Smith since it was made. He has just rang me to say that he has received a letter from Norman Green, the company solicitor for the NAS which states that they are not going to write to Jaqui Smith and or the DFES about this matter. No mention of where the figure actually came from either.

 

Now what does that tell you? It tells me that they are not interested in what the majority of parents are coping with on a daily basis.

 

I was told by the All Party Group for Autism that this figure did NOT come from them, although they are tied hand and foot to the NAS. I was told that on that day, the day the speech was made, that other stats had been passed to Jacqui Smith which she chose not to use.

 

Are we being taken round in circles here or simply being taken for idiots?

 

Sorry but I am really quite angry at the moment.

 

Carole

Edited August 11, 2005 by carole

[shafi]

I don't know where you are all based, but I do know of a centre which provides Applied Behaviour Analysis programmes for children with autism, based in Cheshire, which seems to be a good "different " option. If anyone is interested, they have a website at xxxxxx which give further info.

[nellie]

Hi shafi and welcome to the forum,

 

I'm sorry I've had to delete the name of this centre as it's forum policy not to name schools/organisations, as a new member you weren't to know. I hope you understand.

 

Look forward to 'chatting' with you.

 

Nellie xx

[smallworld]

I've read this post for the third time tonight (on various forums) are you on commision Shafi ? !!!

 

Sorry, on re-reading this, I realise it sounds a bit sharp.It's just that I had read the exact same message from 3 different posters all with names which are anagrams of Shafi, and no other posts from them.

 

wac

Edited August 13, 2005 by waccoe

[shafi]

No I'm not on commission. I just found out about this centre and thought that it might be useful to anyone within the area, as I have heard good things about ABA being provided in a centre.

[Neil Young]

Wasn't this figure from the NAS' Inclusion and Autism: is it working? which found 73% of parents were satisfied with the education their children were receiving? See http://www.nas.org.uk/news/inclusion.pdf

 

Also the Cathy Tissot/Brunel University research published earlier this year which found that 70% were satisfied. The BBC reported on the Tissot paper-

 

 

"Research by Brunel University found that a third of parents questioned said this was the most stressful area.

 

Lecturer Catherine Tissot spoke to 750 parents of autistic children about their experiences.

 

In the UK 60 children in 10,000 are autistic, and parents need to liaise with local councils to find the right support and education for their child.

 

Autism is a developmental disability which affects the way someone communicates and interacts with other people but it varies in severity.

 

Someone with autism might have trouble relating to others in a meaningful way. They might also have learning difficulties. Most parents viewed dealing with LEAs as a confrontational exercise

 

Researcher Catherine Tissot

Increasingly, children with autism go to mainstream schools or to a special unit attached to a mainstream school.

 

Catherine Tissot said parents complained they were not being listened to by council staff and some claimed they had been lied to.

 

She said: "Our research revealed a clear stress point in the system, which needs to be addressed.

 

"Most parents viewed dealing with LEAs as a confrontational exercise. This is completely unnecessary as both parties should have the same interests at heart - providing the best education possible for the children."

 

'Frustrated

 

She said 54% of parents said dealing with local authority staff was stressful, while about one in three named this as the most stressful area for them.

 

The complexity of the special education needs system was a source of stress for 43% of those asked. A total of 12% cited this as the most stressful factor.

 

Researchers also contacted local education authorities for their views of the relationship between themselves and families with autistic children.

 

They concluded that council officers strived to work with families, but their efforts were frustrated by the increasing numbers of children suffering from autism and limitations on available places at schools parents liked.

 

The National Autistic Society offers advice and support to parents of children with autism.

 

Angie Lee Foster, from the organisation, agreed the relationship between LEA staff and parents could be fraught with difficulties.

 

"We get about 35,000 inquiries a year to our helpline and about 10% of these are education-related," she said.

 

"Policy and law around special educational needs is very complex and the system is hard for parents to understand. It's recognised that there is a postcode lottery of provision across the country.

 

"LEAs need to work with parents to build up trust and confidence.

 

"It's about having a clear and transparent system for LEAs, schools and parents so that parents can understand their rights, what's available, what schools can offer and how to access more support." "