School Refusing -

[Tez]

During my conversation with the LEA this morning they mentioned one of A's difficulties as being school refusing. I've had a quick look on the internet for a proper definition of this and my understanding is that the child doesn't have to refuse to go to school, but when attending is very anxious and has somnatic symptoms. It isn't explicit about whether or not this fear has to have any rationale to it. The appropriate response according to the internet is exposure therapy.

 

My problem with this is that according to this definition A could be described as being a school refuser. He will go to school every day but it causes him great anxiety and does cause him to have somnatic symptoms and to self-harm. However, these aren't irrational fears. He has been subjected to intense bullying and the school have admitted that they can't keep him safe which is why he isn't attending school. It was ultimately the school's decision not ours. Also I cannot see how exposing him to more bullying without support will solve anything.

 

I think I'm going to ask for it to be put on record that I object to the use of the phrase school refuser in relation to A and my reasons for wanting this, but before doing so I would appreciate others thoughts as to the advisability of this or otherwise.

[lil_me]

From what you say he's not refusing to go, he's just scared stiff poor kid because of the lack of support he's had and the school not dealing with bullying properly. I would put that in writing with the objection to it being on his records. I wouldn't be letting them blame him for the school being unable to meet his needs either.

Edited August 22, 2005 by lil_me

[annie]

Hi Tez,

 

We had that phrase thrown at us too because our son was too stressed and self-harming.

 

Have you got a GP's letter stating that your son could not attend school for medical reasons at any time ie stress, depression? (sorry, I can't remember ) If you have, then your son cannot be called a school refuser.

 

Comments like those sound like your LEA are trying to find any reason as to not do the assessment.

 

Don't let them get away with it.

 

I would ask for it to be put on record that you object to the phrase too.

 

Annie

<'>

[oracle]

David was put down as a school refuser and I fought them on this. I do not believe that kids with AS are school refusers, not in the same way that non-AS kids are. Our kids have the problems they have with school because their complex and specific needs are not being met.

 

Our LEA still say that our kids are become school refusers and it's rubbish. I agree with Annie it's a lovely little compartment they have opened to avoid them from spending money. In your case on a Statement

 

Carole

[phasmid]

I have always thought that 'School phobic' would be a better description than 'School refuser' in these circumstances. To me, a school refuser is a child who does not want to go to school, a school phobic does, but 'something' is preventing them from doing so. In your vase it is the being bullied that has caused the phobia.

 

Phas Jr had all sorts of problems with being bullied at one point, never in school but on the way home. School were fantastic and were doing all they could about it and really did support us, and him, as much as they possibly could but at the time it still had a very bad effect on Phas jr.

 

He went from being a top grade student to one who did not want to go to school. He loved his lessons, it was the bullying he couldn't stand. It did get to the point that we could not always get him to go in. He wasn't refusing school - he was refusing to get bullied. Who could blame him? We would not use the term 'school refuser' we always insisted on the term 'school phobic'. Our LEA seemed to accept it.

[smallworld]

Silly me, I'd always thought that 'school refuser' and 'school phobic' were entirely different things. Or does that just depend on where you live these days ? (like lots of things !! )

 

This sounds really sarcastic on re-reading, but I really didn't mean it to sound so. I thought 'school phobic' was actually a condition as opposed to 'school refuser' ?

 

wac

Edited August 22, 2005 by waccoe

[Tez]

Hi Waccoe,

 

I know what you mean. I did as well but it's apparently been rebranded and the term school refuser is now used even when the child has a good attendance record and doesn't refuse to go to school or play trunt.

 

It's very misleading and takes all the blame for the anxieties away from the school and the LEA and places it with the child and the parents. That's why I object so much. See others agree with me.

 

Sorry Rant over.

[mossgrove]

Tez

 

Annie has some sopund advice. Our GP was happy to write a letter for both of our Autistic boys children explaining that due to stress thay may not always be able to attend school.

 

It stopped the school/LEA giving us a hard time about poor/erratic attendance. To be fair the LEA were excellent, but the school made repeated eforts to imply that our 5 year olds problems were entirely caused by out refusal to send him full time rather than us being unable to send him full time beacuse he couldn't cope.

 

Simon

[annie]

Alex is statemented, we got one at the end of year 9. He was suspended 9 times in less that 2 years, which to my mind shows that something isn't right. When he was at school, I used to get a call to pick him up 2-3 times a week, the reason was that he was too stressed. Finally, when he started self-harming, we decided that enough was enough.

 

The school never did many of the things that were supposed to have been put in place on the statement, At the time I contacted everybody who should have been there to help, nobody was interested.

 

Nearly one year later, I still haven't had a call back from the Education Welfare Officer.

 

These reasons are my LEAs definition of a school refuser.........I don't think so

 

More like everybody else has said, a refusal from LEAs and schools to accept the fact that they have messed up and shove the blame on the parents/child.

 

Alex is out of the 'normal' school system now and couldn't be happier.

 

Annie

<'>

[Tez]

Hi Simon,

 

Thanks for the advice but I think that the LEA is just playing mind games with me here. Ashleigh's psychiatrist has already written saying that he is out of school on health grounds. To be fair no one is giving us a hard time about A not attending school, in fact it was the school who told us not to send him in any more because they could not stop the bullying and they saw the effect that it was having on his health and they wrote to the Education Welfare Officer confirming this.

 

This has arisen because in a conversation with the LEA yesterday the LEA said that it was obvious that he was school refusing. I object because I think this phrase is very misleading and I want all record of it amended in the records with a note of my objections and the reasons why. They don't want to go down the Statutory Assessment route even though the school has requested it and they admit that they are not meeting A's needs and they don't think that they are capable of meeting A's needs. I think that this is their way of implying that the blame lies with my son or us.

 

I will refer them back to the Psychiatrist's letter and I will reiterate that it was the school's decision for him to remain at home not his or mine.

[Tez]

Sorry Annie we posted at the same time.

 

I totally agree with you. LEA's have a really weird way of defining school refusing and it gives a totally misleading impression. Why do they insist on being so contentious. I'm sure they do partly because they know it will upset or anger you and that you are less likely to be able to think clearly and strategically then. It also leads you nicely away from the real issue, namely that they are failing to provide appropriate provision for your child.

[annie]

Simon,

 

At one of our meetings, the school tried to say that Alex wasn't suffering from depression even though they were sent copies of letters from his GP and paed, they denied ever receiving them......yet another last ditch effort to relinquish responsiblity.

 

Me, being the ever organised person, shoved my copies of both letters under their noses within seconds. At the bottom of each letter was copies to ****** school and **** ****, SEN Officer. After that, they tried to blame the school office staff

 

I might add that this was all in front of an IPSEA parent supporter which obviously went down well

 

The moral of this is - ALWAYS keep copies of letters.

 

Annie

<'>

[phasmid]

Silly me, I'd always thought that 'school refuser' and 'school phobic' were entirely different things. Or does that just depend on where you live these days ? (like lots of things !! )

 

This sounds really sarcastic on re-reading, but I really didn't mean it to sound so. I thought 'school phobic' was actually a condition as opposed to 'school refuser' ?

 

wac

 

 

That was the point I was trying to make, I think THEY ARE different. In my opinion a 'school refuser' is a pupil who decides they do not wish to attend school - these are the ones who are often caught in truancy sweeps. A 'school phobic' on the other hand does want to attend school but, finds the process of being/going there too traumatic to cope with. This could be down to various reasons - not least of which could be the fear of being bullied.

 

When you are the parent of a school phobic I don't think the tactic of dragging you to court for punishing you for your child's non-attendence is what is needed. What is needed is someone to address the problem behind the non-attendence. The use of the term 'school refuser', in my mind, implies that the threat of court action is there. In this sort of instance that is wrong, it is side-stepping the real issue - the cause behind the child not wanting to go to school.

 

When Phas jr was starting to refuse to go to school the last place he wanted to be was outside anywhere, certainly the idea of hanging around the shops was the last thing on his mind he was too upset. He just kept repeating over and over "Why can't they just let me learn and leave me alone?"

 

The difference between the two may be a subtle difference, but , I really do think that there is a difference.

Edited August 23, 2005 by phasmid

[phasmid]

This might help:

 

http://www.teachernet.gov.uk/management/at...x.cfm?code=mode

[annie]

Phasmid,

 

Hear, hear.

 

Annie

XX

[mossgrove]

Tez

 

The more I hear, the more I think that your LEA is not to be trusted. You need a statement as that is the only way the provision can be leaggally enforced, whoch is precisely why thay don't want to go down that route.

 

Legally, the statementing process is not optional if the need is there.

 

Simon

 

PS Still stunned by the school saying not to bring your child as they cannot prevent the bullying. Surely the offenders should be suspended until the siuation is resolved? Can this be taken further?

[Tez]

Phasmid,

 

I agree. Thanks for the link as well. Will help in my preparation for meeting with LEA. Yet another area where they are failing to provide - out of school since April on health grounds and despite school chasing up provision and Doctor writing to LEA no alternative provision made.

[Tez]

Hi Simon,

 

I've got my copy of the SEN code of practice and I've highlighted all the relevannt areas. I know I'm naive but I'm working on the basis that they think I'm completely stupid. I know that I've got a strong case. If I'm doing them a disservice then nothing lost, if I'm right I'll be glad I've taken extreme precautions.

[annie]

Tez,

 

Sorry if I sound like I am repeating myself, but have you got a copy of your Dr's letter to your LEA. If not, are you able to pick up a copy before the meeting tomorrow.

 

Also,

 

have you got anything in writing from the school regarding the fact that the school cannot guarantee you son's safety?

 

LEAs cannot ignore medical evidence.

 

Annie

<'>

[Tez]

Annie,

 

Don't be afraid to repeat yourself. I'm so tired at the moment that I over look the obvious. I was supposed to have a copy of the letter and I have seen a copy but my copy appears to have been lost in the post. I will see if I can obtain a copy for tomorrow.

 

Thanks

 

Terrie

[Tez]

Psychiatrist just emailed me a copy of the letter so I'm all prepared. Thanks Annie.

 

Now going to spend the day organising my correspondence so everything is to hand.

[annie]

Great

 

Your problems are almost identical to the problems we had, so I know that you can have a good outcome even if you have to fight for it.

 

Like you, we didn't have time on our side (Alex got his statement in May last year, when he was 15) and LEAs like to stall as much as possible because they know that.

 

If I think of anything else that might help I'll add it as I think of it.

 

Annie

<'>

Edited August 23, 2005 by annie

[helenl53]

Tez

 

I know that all of us wish we could be with you in body in the meeting tomorrow - you are not naive - it is a corrupt system and any naivety is down to us believing that people in authority have scruples, morals and do not break the law.

 

Sorry for those in the system who do not fall into the above category - you know who you are and you should be proud of having a conscience when it comes to our kids.

 

Best wishes

 

HelenL

 

PS The more I hear, the more disgusted I am that this goes on.

[mossgrove]

Tez

 

Sounds like you are doing all the right things.

 

Hopefully by the end of the meeting they will realise that they are dealing with someone who can't be fobbed off.

 

Speaking of repeating yourself, that can be a very good tactic. Jut repeat what you want (i.e. stautory asessment leading to a statement) as often as it takes for as long as it takes. If you say the same thing 20 times in a row it's their problem not yours!

 

Good luck!

 

Simon

[phasmid]

Found this link whilst looking something else up. I haven't checked it out to see whats on it. Thought you might find something of use on it though:

 

http://www.dfes.gov.uk/schoolattendance/

[Tez]

LEA phoned not long ago to confirm the place and time of meeting.

 

In passing they mentioned that they might want to my son's school doctor to independently confirm that he is medically unfit for school rather than his own Doctor.

 

Guess who the school doctor is? Yep, the Psychiatrist who signed him off doubles up as the School Doctor

 

I kept quiet about that one.

[annie]

Nice one Tez

 

And just to think, you thought you were naive earlier

 

Annie

<'>

[phasmid]

 

Something tells me you won't have any difficulty there then!

[bluejean-genie]

Hi Tez

just wanted to wish you good luck for tomorrow's meeting.

[annie]

Tez,

 

Good Luck at the meeting <'> <'>

 

Annie

[helenl53]

Tez - we will all be with you tomorrow

 

Stay calm and focused -

 

Love

 

HelenL

[smallworld]

Tez,

wishing you all the best for tomorrow, stick to your guns and refuse to accept the term 'school refuser' !

Hope it goes well,

 

wac

[bid]

Good luck tomorrow, Tez <'>

 

Just remember that you are morally and legally in the right, whatever weasle words the LEA come out with!!

 

Bid <'>

[Suze]

<'> <'> ......good luck today Tez with the meeting...keep us posted be thinking of you.

[phasmid]

Hope everything works out. Down get bullied into accepting anything (including terms) you do not like. Keep nice and calm and stick to your guns.

 

Good luck.

[mossgrove]

Good luck! We've all got our fingers crossed!

 

Simon

[Sallya]

Good luck, Tez

xxx

[Tez]

Well, we had an hour long meeting with the Deputy Head of Inclusion & Access at the LEA. I have similar problems to A in processing information and parts of conversations only register in my brain hours later so I asked whether he minded if I recorded the session. He said that he was quite happy for me to do so.

 

The meeting overall seemed to go well and he seemed to be genuine but as my husband said he wouldn't be much good at his job if he didn't, would he. He wanted to meet with us because he said that he had some concerns about big gaps in the evidence provided showing that despite resources input A wasn't coping. He said that he could see that he'd only been on schoolaction+ for a year and that given that A is about to enter year 10 he felt that the panel would refuse to assess and say that it was a temporary blip.

 

He said that having read my advice he felt that A had probably not been coping for years and he wanted some verbal evidence to give to the panel as to how he managed to get from Reception year through to the end of year 8 without being on the SEN register.

 

Hopefully, I was able to show that A had not been coping, that in my opinion he should have had support since he entered school and that I had letters which indicated that the school thought he needed 1 to 1 support but weren't prepared to provide it and that infact during Junior school alot of extra support had been given to him even though he didn't have a diagnosis. I also pointed out that I had been fighting with the schools for years to get him help but because he internalises so much nobody believed he had any real problems. It seems a little unfair that he should be let down again only because others had failed in the past to give him the support that he needed.

 

They also wanted to know why A had not been seeing an Educational Psychologist apart from when the school applied for exam dispensation. This had been discussed but the school felt that since A was already seeing a Psychiatrist at CAMHS they would be replicating effort and possibly causing more harm than good and significantly increase his anxieties. The Psychiatrist attended IEP meetings and gave advice to the school on a regular basis even between reviews.

 

The LEA then said that they were concerned about the amount of school that A was missing and although they accepted that we did not want the PRU it might be a temporary solution because even if they agreed to access it would be February before it could be finalised. I told them if they could get A statemented by February I would be happy, he is still to ill to attend school anyway and I produced the Doctor's letter signing him off and requesting home tutition. The use of the term "school refuser" was discussed and the LEA have agreed that they will not use the word in any paperwork and accept that A's problems have nothing to do with school refusing after all they agreed he has been signed off sick by a doctor.

 

The LEA officer said that he had noted that a referral had been made for home tutition and he would expediate it.

 

We have agreed to go and see the PRU unit but have made clear that we do not see it as being suitable even short term and the reasons why but have said we will try and keep an open mind until we have seen it and discussed our concerns with the Headmistress.

 

After all the information gathering we have been told by the LEA that they will try to expediate things since they accept that A is missing out on vital areas of his education particularly since he is due to start his GCSEs. I got the impression that the meeting went reasonably well and the Parent PArtnership supporter who accompanied us and knew the officer says that she thinks he's on our side. After all she said he had no need to call you into a meeting the LEA could just have refused to assess and delayed the whole process.

 

Please keep your fingers crossed for us and thank you everyone for your help, support and good wishes.

 

(Just as an aside - It always amazes me what little details these people pick up on. In the minutes of an IEP review meeting dated 9th May 2005 it was noted that the SENCO had been instructed to apply for a Statutory Assessment. She didn't submitit until July 25th and only then because we complained to the Governors. The LEA wanted to know why it had taken her so long and said that the delay caused by her and the loss of education it was causing my son was one of the reasons they wanted to speed things up for us.)

Edited August 24, 2005 by Tez

[lil_me]

Everything crossed for you, best of luck <'>

[annie]

Hi Tez,

 

I'm really pleased that things went well for you.

 

It does sound that your man from the LEA is on your side. Hopefully things will start moving now.

 

 

Annie

<'>