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elainem

Handwriting without tears

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Hi

 

our OT has recommended this handwriting programme for our ASD/very dyspraxic ds. It's from USA - does sound good but am worried because inital focus is on capital letters and I am unsure how that would fit in with phonics and concentrating on forming letters in lower case.

 

Does anyone have experience of this programme. I have also gone back to OT for her view on how we might make this work.

 

Thanks

 

Elaine

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Mmmm, don't know too much, but my son is very dyspraxic, and we were always told that a cursive script was the way to go because it involves less taking the pen off the paper, if you see what I mean...

 

Bid :wacko:

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definitely cursive or italic script if you want to help develop flow and kinetic memory. Joined up is good for spelling and phonic patterns too.

 

Could you skip the capital letter bits? (the OT doesn't really need to know)

 

Zemanski

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Sounds good , my son has v.poor writing and isvery slow, attempts are being made for him to use a computer :pray: instead, we live in hope.He did a programme called Theordorescu (polish) which was supposed to be good but did,nt make a whole load of difference.

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Suze, your son sounds like mine, he really struggles with handwriting; he couldnt manage cursive, so his teacher last yr, let him go back to printing, and that has taken the pressure off him, and hes much happier just chugging along like that. His writing looks like a 5 year olds just learning to write and hes 8, but its not so hard for him now and he has started writing things of his own free will. Letters to me, lists of names in his class, friends who are allowed to come in his room and rules for his sister! Then he sticks them on his bedroom door.But its good practise for him and he doesnt get as stressed out as he used to.

S

xxx

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he couldnt manage cursive, so his teacher last yr, let him go back to printing

 

PRINTING!!!!!

 

Now, my infant school had no computers and the most high-tech manifestation was a thermofax copier that produced worksheets in the form of blueprints. Printing was the term used by the school for writing ball and stick even though I knew at the time that officially printing can only be accomplished with a machine such as a printing press or computer printer.

 

Learning to write ball and stick is a one way ticket for most people.

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in educational jargon printing is writing without joining up - this is very old jargon, dates back to the 1950s at least. In 1588 the word print meant to commit anything to writing (OED)

 

printing doesn't support the flow or kinetic memory but if trying to join up causes stress then it is counter-productive - less stress more progress!

 

Zemanski

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I was quite surprised when I found out that ball and stick writing originated in Britain during the late 19th century. I suspected it was invented during the early 1960s by liberal progressive education reformers - possibly in the US. My parents wrote cursively at infant school during the 1950s.

 

Is the term printing for ball and stick writing now obsolescent terminology?

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My 11 year old Aspergers son has struggled with his handwriting ever since he learnt how to write :( We have had numerous programmes suggested to us by the OT and he has attended handwriting groups run by the OT . He was provided with a writing slope for use in school but this became a distraction for him. (used to race his pencils down it) :lol: We have tried different writing styles and different pens and pencils. But still his handwriting did not noticeably improve.He became over the years very frustrated and angry as the work that he produced on paper bore little resemblance to what went on in his head. Other children could be really nasty about it as well. Along comes another OT and wonders why on earth the school has continued to let him struggle trying to improve his handwriting. She organised an alpha-smart for him(which was funded by the LEA) can you believe it :o and recommended a good child friendly typing cause for him.At the end of the day I think too much importance is given to handwriting. Our children have enough to struggle with anyway. When he goes to secondary school he will be able to take notes on the alpha-smart and any homework can be done on the computer. Also if he doesn't manage to get it all down the L.S.A. is going to e-mail it to him. As the alpha-smart is now his usual means of writing he was able to use it in his SATs. For extended writing he used the class computer but with all the spell checks etc. turned off. He managed to get level 5 in all the subjectsr :clap: I think what I'm trying to say that some children may never be able to improve their handwriting and seeing as they have so many other things to deal with why should we waste our time. I hope all of you whos children are struggling get the help they deserve. One thing we are still really struggling with is diagrams ,labelling and maths, but we hope we will come up with ways to record these types of work as well.

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My son has been having help with his spelling from a dyslexia specialist teacher for two years, and his writing has improved a lot as a side effect. It is still printed, but is evenly spaced and sized now.

 

Karen

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It's amazing how things have changed in schools since the mid 1980s but a machine very similar to alpha-smart existed 20 years ago. Check out http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=233

 

I wanted one to use at school because I struggled with writing but the school wouldn't let me use one in class. They couldn't understand why my handwriting was so bad and thought that a computer was an excuse to avoid me from improving my handwriting. My parents and the LEA repeatedly told me that I couldn't use a computer in an exam.

 

At secondary school many teachers got stroppy when I submitted homework done on a computer. They thought that I was cheating despite me telling them that machines that can think and automatically do homework will never be developed in my lifetime. Computers today are ubiquitous machines and young people are expected to make use of them, whereas when I was at school, computers still had a halo of awe and mysticism surrounding them and nobody was expected to use them at school until they chose computing GCSE in Y10.

 

Note taking was and still is one of my weak points. I can't honestly understand why in this day and age teachers expect kids to copy down large chunks of text off black/whiteboards. The problem came down on me like a ton of bricks at university. Some lecturers write very fast and erase the board as soon as they finish writing. I was always copying other student's lecture notes. Alpha-smart would have been on limited use because of all the equations, diagrams etc. involved with engineering lectures. As I have said, schools have changed tremendously since the 80s but many universities still operate like they did in the 60s.

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We've spent the last 3 years concentrating on helping Dot improve her handwriting and spelling with some success, especially in the last year since diagnosis of dyslexia which meant we could focus on specific skills.

A dyslexic spelling programme, irlen lenses, writing slope, cursive handwriting and special pens have all helped.

 

But just on friday I went to see the senco, who taught her last year, and he says even with the improvements she is never going to achieve her potential on paper. Even though she can read and write it is so laborious that she will never keep up in high school. He says she will not manage without a laptop but is probably doing too well at the moment to qualify for one :wallbash:

 

As a teacher and a parent I see it like this

 

Any child who can benefit from a laptop should have one as early as possible.

 

There is every point in making sure that a child can write to the best of their ability because it is a very useful skill but it is also very important that if their ability to read and record is holding back their development then they should be given the tools to sidestep that problem.

 

It needs to be sorted out early because children need time to develop keyboard skills in just the same way as they need time to develop handwriting skills - no point waiting till they can't keep up and then presenting them with a laptop it is going to take a year or two to become proficient with.

 

Actually I think all kids should have keyboard lessons, these days typing is an essential skill and almost all of their written work after school will be on a computer, even if it is only being able to present an effective letter of application.

 

I have seen a big change in attitude towards typed work in schools over the last 10 years, both my children are actively encouraged to do their homework on the computer and Dot (9) now has access to a laptop (the senco's own which is causing problems for him now she isn't in his class) for all writing tasks that are focused on expressive skills rather than mechanical skills - ie any creative writing is done on a computer but anything that involves stuff like spelling is done by hand.

 

I don't think it is very far away that kids will be expected to carry their own hard drives around and every class will have enough computers just to plug them all into the network - already some high schools expect kids to have a data stick of their own which is pretty much the same thing. The newest mac computers are about the size of a gamecube and attach to any screen and keyboard by USB, they can be networked through a remote connection to use a central server with far less hassle than most laptops and you can get roll up keyboards and small plug-in monitors. And they are cheap.

not perfect yet and not hugely popular but something stunning will turn up soon to allow all our kids to transfer to computers whether they actually need to or not.

 

Zemanski

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Zemanski at what age do you think it would be apparent that a child is always going to struggle with handwriting. A teacher once told me that it is usually pretty obvious by the time they take their year 2 sats. I think writing is a useful skill but not necessarily beautiful writing. There was another boy in my sons class who also had terrible handwriting. He did not have a dx of anything but he did eventually get seen by an OT after 2 years(he was not urgent) They said he had poor fine motor skills but his gross motor skills were very good e.g. he played in the school football team and represented the school at numerous sporting events. Even though he was not really sen (he did have an iep with target to improve handwriting) he was still able to use the computer for his sats as the school were able to prove that this was his usual way of writing. I was wondering then if all children who do not have an acceptable level of handwriting will be able to use computers from an early age. My son even does his spelling tests on his alpha as his handwriting is so slow he was not completing them even though he knew how to spell them. The sooner we move away fom so much handwriting the better

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I can't see why it took so ###### long for schools to let students use computers if their writing is bad. Harder to understand is why schools got difficult if homework was printed out rather than written.

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For the moment there are still not enough computers in schools to go around, even most suites in school only have one between two. They are still too expensive and/or bulky. Laptops are still too unreliable for kids to be lugging them around in the backpacks they kick across the playground - if they won't even buy decent pens and pencils I don't think schools are going to fork out for enough computers.

 

I played merry hell with Dot's school when the head decided to remove the classroom computers to build a new suite so Dot had no access in the classroom just after getting her diagnosis of dyslexia. Becta (who determine national policy on IT for schools) currently say that all students and staff should have access to a computer where ever they are working to use as appropriate, this includes halls, libraries, staffrooms and classrooms, so it wasn't just a case of SEN issues. The idea is that all children should be able to use the computer as and when the need arises for whatever reason, not just for writing.

Dot now shares the senco's own laptop but that is now a bit of a problem as she isn't in his class any more.

 

I think it varies as to when you might notice serious handwriting problems with a child - I spotted Dot's poor grip early, probably before school. I think if a child isn't holding the pencil right by about Christmas in reception then it's time to look at getting a shaped grip or pen; better not to let them get into the habit. A lot of schools use triangular pencils in the foundation stage to encourage good grip.

If grip is a problem then you need to keep a general eye on the child for other problems, which may or may not be there.

 

Motor control difficulties take longer to spot, Y2 is when most children develop some flow and those who don't stand out a bit more. This is partly because it is when joined up script is first introduced to most children - in schools where cursive is used from reception (Dot's now does this) it may be easier to spot sooner if a child is going to struggle.

I think it was about halfway through Y2 when Dot was finally put on a cursive handwriting programme to try to improve her flow for SATs.

 

One of the reasons we spotted Dot early is that she had other fine motor problems - buttons, eating utensils, scissors, etc. Teachers won't necessarily notice these things, especially if you are like me and dress your children in simple clothes so they don't have problems with PE, and you send a packed lunch so they don't need to use a spoon or knife and fork. If you think your child is struggling more than other children with these things it would probably be good to tell the teacher.

 

Z

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Hi

 

LKS- Just saw this and Jamie's having an assessment for a laptop today, I was told by the ed phsyc that if jamies handwriting is readable he would get laptop, jamies nearly 11 has aspergers and dyspraxic, but only fine motor, he has always struggled with his writing and his hands hurt after a couple of lines, the OT he has been seeing recently said to us she could not believe he didnt have a laptop ages ago, anyway what I wanted to ask you, is how long did it take for your son to understand his comp?? and did you mean he did his sats on it?? as Jamie has his sats this year and he'll either have to have a writer or his comp, but it would be nicer his comp, cos I think he'll feel his achieved more.

 

Sorry for rambling on, but not sure how it all works.

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Hi elainm

 

I don't know about this particular course but a friend of mine who works in a primary school is about to start using a programme called 'Speed Up'.

 

Here's the synopsis from the book at Amazon

Speed Up! is a tried-and-tested programme designed specifically for children aged 8-13, whose handwriting is slow, illegible or lacking in fluency. Whether the problems are associated with a developmental coordination disorder (such as dyspraxia), dyslexia or ADHD, or whether they are the result of poor handwriting habits acquired early on, this book will provide an effective source of help.

Edited by MotherEve

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The real issue here is priority. If a school is short on computers, then they should be first allocated to those who need them the most. My junior school had 400 kids and only 8 or 9 computers. The computers spent most of their time gathering dust because there was very little software relevant to the school curriculum and there were no ICT lessons back then. The school had a word processor and printers so there really was no excuse not to let me use it instead of writing.

 

I think that part of the problem is a result of the attitudes of those in education. Many teachers are left-wing in their views and believe more in equality rather than priority. Letting a few kids use computers to do most of their work is interpreted as unfair on the majority who have to use pens. Therefore the teacher takes the stance of "if everyone can't have it then nobody shall have it".

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Hi - seekingsanity - hope Jamie's assessment goes ok.

 

It's nearly fifteen months since the school asked for an IT assessment for J - no sign of anything yet.

:(:(:(:(

 

Think I'll take that up this week ... :angry::angry::angry:

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I don't think this has anything to do with the political bias of teachers, Canopus - you try teaching a class of 30+ and finding time to give all that individual attention that's needed and sort out the PC in the corner that keeps crashing every time a kid touches it and go on training that often doesn't exist and manage all the SEN and EBD needs now that they are almost all in mainstream .....

 

Individual teachers don't have a lot of say in how schools are resourced, senco's budgets are limited both at LEA level and at school level, IT coordinators are often too stretched to get round to those old computers in the classrooms (t's hard enough keeping the suite running), there is so much stuffed into the curriculum and everything is so finely timed that there isn't time to even think about switching on a computer most of the time and if the children haven't had the teaching to allow them to operate the programmes they need how can they do it themselves? (you will find upper KS2 use computers all the time because they know what they're doing and can be trusted, up to KS2 the kids aren't independent enough usually and after KS2 they aren't considered reliable enough!) - there are endless reasons for things not being up to scratch; politics is the very least of them!

 

I'm a left wing teacher and my left wing views tell me that everyone should have an equal opportunity to succeed in a classroom and if that means getting extra help, resources, specialists, equipment, strategies, etc to enable each child to access the curriculum effectively so that they have that opportunity then I work extremely hard to make sure each child gets it.

I suspect I would feel the same way if I were right wing, I'd just find a different way of justifying it :devil:

 

In my experience most teachers are trying their best to meet the needs of the children they teach as they perceive them - sometimes they don't have the resources, sometimes they don't have the understanding and aren't exactly helped to gain it most of the time, sometimes the advice they do get is wrong or difficult to put into practice and sometimes their perceptions of need are wrong.

 

Some of the teachers in schools were trained when words like 'retarded' were applied to our kids and they never so much as saw a 'slow learner' because there was intellectual segregation - many of them are still on a very steep learning curve since the advent of inclusion and most of them are trying very hard to adapt.

 

trouble is we just seem to be always getting stuck with the ones who don't seem to be able to adapt to our children - gives a very bad impression of teachers, doesn't it?

 

Zemanski

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Hi seeking sanity. My son has had this alpha smart since year 4. He originally had one loaned to him by the ot dept. to see how he would get on with it. So he has been used to using this for writing for quite a while now. The reason why they tend to recommend alpha smarts is that they are quite durable and very light. They are basically a small portable word processor which has a cable that can link up to the printer cable on a computer and then you can print out what ever work you have done. In primary school there was no problem about it getting damaged as it was left at school and locked up , all printing out was done at school. Any homework was done on our main computer. At secondary school apparently loads of children use these alphas and there are always some lurking around spare according to the senco. They can be left in the homework room over night , but the children have to remember to collect them in the morning. Don't quite know how we are going to handle this at the moment as son has never had to carry the alpha about with him from class to class. He did his SATs on the computer in a classroom, the reason for this being that on the alpha it only displays about 4 lines of text at a time and they thought it would be important for him to see how much he was writing as he went along. I can't understand why children are expected to wait so long for an IT assesment, but I suppose it comes down to money again. We are about to start the process again for my 8 year old daughter another struggling handwriter. Her OT has said to the teacher that it is important to think what the learning objective is in her pieces of work, are they looking for ideas, and her thoughts or are they looking for neat handwriting, some children seem to struggle with both.

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some children don't struggle with both but the problems poor fine motor skills cause require so much concentration that they lose the ability to focus on the content and so the quality of their work is poor in structure, language and ideas. Dot has this problem big time - her handwritten work is averaging 2 levels below her typed work.

 

Even for those who do finally become able to write at a reasonable speed the effort can hold them back - Com can keep up, just about, most of the time, but cannot paragraph or spell because in the race against the clock that is just too much to think about.

 

another advantage is the ability to draft which becomes ever more important - Com cannot bear to make a mess of his work or to 'do it all over again' so drafting on paper is a complete waste of time and always results in a meltdown. On a computer he has no problem, he can cut and paste so there's no rewriting and he can format the text any way he likes, again his typed work is usually at least a level above his hand written work.

 

Zemanski

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some children don't struggle with both but the problems poor fine motor skills cause require so much concentration that they lose the ability to focus on the content and so the quality of their work is poor in structure, language and ideas. Dot has this problem big time - her handwritten work is averaging 2 levels below her typed work.

 

Even for those who do finally become able to write at a reasonable speed the effort can hold them back - Com can keep up, just about, most of the time, but cannot paragraph or spell because in the race against the clock that is just too much to think about.

 

another advantage is the ability to draft which becomes ever more important - Com cannot bear to make a mess of his work or to 'do it all over again' so drafting on paper is a complete waste of time and always results in a meltdown. On a computer he has no problem, he can cut and paste so there's no rewriting and he can format the text any way he likes, again his typed work is usually at least a level above his hand written work.

 

Zemanski

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Switching computers on and off wears them out which is one reason why computers are left to run continuously in many institutions and CO2 emissions are so high. Schools should switch on all their computers before the students arrive and switch them off after the students go home. That way, time isn't wasted at the start of lessons.

 

Only basic word processing software is needed as a pen substitute in most lessons. Packages like M$ Word are too complicated and have too many features that can act as distractions. A straightforward text editor should be sufficient. Kids who require computers as pen substitutes should have the opportunity to practice using the software either at breaktimes or after school.

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Canopus, teaching is tough, resources are cr*p and in my last job I used to go round the whole school every morning, 2 sites, in time I should have been preparing my lessons and sorting out my special needs kid's IEPs, having been up since 6 to get to school for 7:30am at the very latest, having often worked till midnight on paperwork with no tech support and no coordinator time, just to make sure all the classroom computers were up and running and then, guess what? I used to go round and switch them all off again, usually being the last person there other than the caretaker.

 

I know that you are talking about simple word processing capability but IT isn't about that any more - it's just one of the things the computers need to do for childen these days.

 

I arrived at that school to find 4 of the 7 classroom computers obsolete and crashing continuously and no money to replace them because the last coordinator had been conned into spending all our money on a new suite which had been installed with a batch duff hard drives that the company was refusing to replace. It took me 6 months to get the basics sorted, mostly in my own time, having to train myself to install and network the equipment (I'm a teacher, not a technician), cadge favours off people in other schools and run myself into the ground.

 

When I left the school I had quadrupled the number of computers (partly with free machines reconditioned by a charity), the school had more interactive whiteboards per head (including one set at almost ground level for the nursery) than any other primary in our LEA and we had two new mini-suites in the upper KS2 classrooms which meant that a third of those classes could be using computers at any one time and no other class had less than 3 computers. I also bought and installed loads of new software, most of which was chosen to give the best access to SEN kids alongside their peers, including such wonders PSE role play software, voice recognition, animated story maker, and programmes that used symbols to support visual learners. Every computer was set up for access by the 2 visually impaired children in the school and there were large screens in all the rooms they used. I also gave all staff both individual and group training to use the technology.

 

This was all on top of running a classroom full time with a Y4 class that included 3 children with no English and another 4 with emergent English, 2 kids with ADHD one of whom was also colourblind and dyspraxic, 1 undiagnosed AS kid, 3 kids on the register for EBD, 5 kids with handwriting difficulties, and 1 child working 3 years ahead of the rest of the class in just about everything who had behaviour problems if he wasn't stretched enough. I had one LSA who was permanently attached to one of the ADHD kids so wasn't available for general work, displays or other SEN work.

 

This is the job I used to do, I still get offers of jobs from heads because it is what I do and there just aren't enough of us around with that sort of experience in IT and teaching.

Primary teachers are usually interested in children not technology and most of them didn't grow up with it the way you have - when I was in the 6th form the school bought 6 ZX81s but we didn't have enough TVs and tape recorders to use them in school so we were allowed to take them home!!!!!

I just happened to go to one of the first universities to run the whole place on a prime mainframe (It was kept in an airlocked room but still kept crashing due to dust in the system) and I did the first year of a programming degree because it fitted with my other subjects - I could programme in basic, pascal, fortran, cobol and ascii code when I went to do my teacher training and I was the only one on my course who had ever used a computer before - and I'm only 40

 

It just isn't as easy to get everything right all the time as you seem to think - There are good teachers out there who just don't have the confidence or experience to make the best use of the poor technology in their schools and there are also good teachers whose job it is to change that, but change takes time and us old fogies take longer to adapt than young people who have always had technology at their fingertips.

To a large degree this is the fault of the DFES and the LEAs more than the teachers; the focus on budgets these days means that schools find it difficult to keep up with the level of technology and training that is needed and when the government decided to make all teachers do NOF training to get them using ICT they forced us to do it through providers who charged huge sums of money for very little useful training - for those teachers already using ICT it taught nothing new and for those who lacked confidence it started in at too high a level and LSAs were only included if the schools were willing or able to pay out of their own budgets at �450 a head. For �450 a head I could have done some really snazzy individualised training and then spent the rest on some decent programmes, instead I had to get 13 demoralised staff a pass on a cr*p course using expensive programmes that I personally wouldn't touch with a bargepole that timed out at the end of the course so we would have to buy them because that was what staff had become used to using on the course - I didn't buy them, I retrained my staff with what I wanted them to use instead.

 

sorry this is a bit of a rant but I do think you are being unfair, Canopus.

 

I don't do this job any more because I became so ill with stress the doctors thought I had bowel cancer.

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I am fully aware that computers are endless fun for kids and endless misery for teachers. Many long serving teachers pine for the days when the most complicated thing they had to handle was a stick of chalk!

 

There are some critics in both education and industry who argue that computers are of minimal use in a school environment as schools are for providing education and not training. The money that is currently spent on computers would be better spent on building repairs, staff salaries, and textbooks; the time that teachers spend maintaining computers and attending computer courses could be better spent teaching kids. They want to see ICT scrapped from the school curriculum and the time used for real subjects such as grammar or history.

 

I view the changeover from Acorn machines to PCs running Windows was nothing more than buying a packet of trouble. It was done because it was argued that kids should use computers and software that the real world uses rather than machines only used by schools. It subjected schools to the capricious hand of the free market and the mercy of Bill Gates and Andy Grove whose only purpose is to make money, not educate kids. PCs and Windows become obsolete almost overnight, so as well as the cost of constantly having to replace hardware and software that still works perfectly, the retraining of teaching staff is an endless treadmill. I advocated several years ago that a special version of Linux should be developed for schools. Linux is a stable operating system and doesn't go obsolete in the same way as Windows does. My suggestion was met with horror because Linux is perceived to be very complicated and technical compared to Windows and isn't what most offices use. The government insists that schools use Windows and M$ application software and has designed the ICT curriculum around this so any change will have to come from top rather than at school or LEA level. What the government and the pro M$ in education camp doesn't seem to latch onto is that by the time kids finish school, the software they use will be obsolete and no longer in widespread use in industry. When I was at secondary school DOS was what PCs ran and computer literate at the time meant having an in depth knowledge of DOS commands. DOS has now been consigned to the dustbin of history and in 10 years time so will Windows XP. Therefore, the idea that kids must use the same software at school as what the office down the road uses just doesn't hold much water in practice, especially if the purpose of school is defined as providing education and not training.

 

I am in favour of having computers in schools but see the current implementation as flawed beyond belief. It doesn't surprise me in the slightest that there are critics who want to see computers purged from schools and a return to traditional teaching methods. Computers and software should be designed for the task that they will be used for, so if a simple text editor is all that is required as a pen substitute for a kid with poor handwriting then that is what they should be provided with. Not some overcomplicated machine running overcomplicated software designed to comply with Whitehall's ICT policy. At the rate things are going I can't see a light at the end of the tunnel. SEN kids will continue to suffer from lack of equipment or inappropriate equipment and teachers stress levels rise.

 

I suppose the best course of action for the time being for kids with writing difficulties is for their parents to buy them an alpha-smart or laptop and persuade the school to let them use it in class. If the school refuses then they could always threaten to withdraw them on the grounds that the school is failing to provide for their needs because of arrogance rather than cost.

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With regards to the training vs. educating question - back in the 80's the Minister for Education, Keith Joseph announced that "We don't want an educated population; an educated population is a troublesome population. What we need is to provide training for future employment."

Though as you point out, ICT 'training' is out of date before the kids leave school, if not before they are trained in its use - Com is about to learn how to use M$ FrontPage at school, despite it creating invalid html (unviewable on most browsers/OSs), and being a program that no professional has ever used. Com has a couple of websites he made in Dreamweaver, but they can't be submitted as work as it does not fit their 'system'.

 

As for using Linux, Zemanski would agree. In fact there was an article in the paper a few weeks ago about a school that had swapped from M$ to Linux, using open source software (for those who don't know, open source software is free (or very very cheap) and has a support network of millions) like OpenOffice. The head reckoned that with double the number of computers in the school, they were saving �4,000 a year.

 

ICT is a powerful learning tool, once the kids and staff have learned how to use it. It is not, as the government seem to think, an end in itself.

 

Dum de dum

 

nemo

Edited by littlenemo

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With regards to the training vs. educating question - back in the 80's the Minister for Education, Keith Joseph announced that "We don't want an educated population; an educated population is a troublesome population. What we need is to provide training for future employment."

 

I remember that one. However, the government ended up focusing on education to the detriment of training. Apprenticeships were abolished and many vocational courses at schools such as car mechanics were axed because they didn't fit into the National Curriculum.

 

ICT as a compulsory subject wasn't introduced until the second half of the 1990s and largely replaced the optional computing GCSE that was more technical and not so tied to M$ software.

 

Though as you point out, ICT 'training' is out of date before the kids leave school, if not before they are trained in its use - Com is about to learn how to use M$ FrontPage at school, despite it creating invalid html (unviewable on most browsers/OSs), and being a program that no professional has ever used.

 

This is ridiculous. It wouldn't surprise me if schools are the only organisations that use FrontPage. A few years ago there was some fuss over why schools use M$ Access when it is technically obsolete and non-standard for professional databases.

 

As for using Linux, Zemanski would agree.

 

Nice to see that someone agrees with me that Linux could be a better choice.

 

In fact there was an article in the paper a few weeks ago about a school that had swapped from M$ to Linux, using open source software (for those who don't know, open source software is free (or very very cheap) and has a support network of millions) like OpenOffice.

 

They must have courage to make such a move. It goes completely against the flow of the tide. I wonder what the LEA thinks of it?

 

The head reckoned that with double the number of computers in the school, they were saving �4,000 a year.

 

At long last somebody in a position of power has finally noticed the savings made by the elimination of licensing costs when using open source software.

 

ICT is a powerful learning tool, once the kids and staff have learned how to use it. It is not, as the government seem to think, an end in itself.

 

You hit the nail on the head there. For years I have been saying that computers are just a tool in a similar way that a protractor or hacksaw are tools. The way computers are used in schools is like teaching hammer rather than carpentry or test tube rather than chemistry. Computers really should be incorporated into existing lessons as learning tools and a means to an end, rather than an end in itself in ICT lessons.

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