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Tez

How many Adults diagnosed with AS work?

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There are many figures published on the internet about how few people with any form of HFA actually manage to hold down a job and work. I know that the figures are probably distorted because of the large numbers of undiagnosed older people but I just wondered how many adults with AS actually find it possible to hold down a full time job regardless of intellect.

 

As parents we become very concerned aboutour children's education but if despite gaining degrees they are unable to cope with the sensory and social pressures of working are we still failing them?

 

I know that there are a few adults on the board with AS what is your view? What about the views of parents with teenagers or young adolescents - do you believe that your child will ever reach their potential and hold down stisfying and well paid jobs?

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The only figure I have seen is that 4% of adults with an ASD are in full time work, this figure appeared in a study from the NAS and is often quoted by them and others.

 

There are a number of issues with the study that mean this figure should be treated with caution.

 

Firstly the survey was of parents who are members of the NAS who them completed questionnaire on behalf of their adult children who had an ASD diagnosis. This is probably not a reprsentative sample of the adult ASD population as parents are more likely to be active in the NAS if their children are having significnt difficulties that have persisted into adulthood, as compared to children who have been able to function well in the world of work.

 

Any survey were the participants are self-selected in unlikely to be representative of sociaty as a whole.

 

When most adults who have ASDs were growing up there was no real awareness of HFA or aspergers so no diagnosis. Those people who have managed to hold down jobs are much less likely to puruse a diagnosis as an adult, still less have their parents pursue on on their behalf.

 

The short answer is nobody knows. We have no definitive picture on the number of Adults with ASD's or ofhow many of them have jobs. Unfortunately most of the research funding has gone int the causes of ASD's rather than into people with ASDs and how best to hep them to lead full and rewarding lives.

 

It is certainly clear that people with ASD's can experience significant difficulties in the world of work, but my gut feeling is that the 4% is an underestimate of the proportion of people with ASD's in work.

 

Simon

Edited by mossgrove

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This is yet another problem which I have difficulty explaining to parents out to cure or 'recover' their child from Autism: the prospects of finding a job and keeping it become significantly lower when people believe you are only 'mildly' affected, 'high-functioning', etc.

 

You're different enough to get funny glances, but not dysfunctional enough to be a constant reminder to the boss that you are different and have different needs as a worker and you are verbal enough to scream at the boss and get fired when made to do something which has already been explained to them by the nice disability people that you patently cannot do it. Bringing an unfair dismissal case in this instance has never been done for Autism that I know of.

 

The NAS figures say that only about two in tend diagnosed with AS or Autistic but H-F are in a job at any one time and half still live at home. No one has ever done a study of L-F Autistics in work(that I know of) but my educated guess is that it is in fact much more improved than it is for those deemed high-functioning. This gives weight to the claim adult Autistics have always made: Autism has never been more disabling than how society handles us; the needs of LFAs are more readily recognised so they are more likely to get jobs and live independently with some form of assistence.

 

I was believed in my class to be the one most likely to go on to be a success as in that enviroment I was bright, read a lot and did good work. Now that I've left that safe, consistent and ordered enviroment, I'm the only one left of my class not in full-time work or further education.

 

I say to a lot of curbies that their efforts are pretty much far too geared towards a superficial goal centred around the individual to make them more 'normal' and they will suffer the real consequences of it. I show them these figures but it never sinks in. An eccentric but happy working person is far better than a miserable but 'normal' acting jobless person in my opinion.

 

And the mere fact that they are jobless will bring back many things which they were believed to have got read of, they often don't get recognised because the parents believed their child is 'recovered' and dismiss them.

 

Sorry to go on.

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Lucas You are not going on. It is one of the things that I think about alot. My son is extremely high functioning but has so many difficulties coping with the world outside the house that I don't ever see him being able to do a fulfilling job. I believe that the move towards working from home might well help him but most companies still expect people to have work place experience before they sanction home working. He could also look at jobs that he could do on a selfemployed basis but many still require social skills and an ability to know when you are being conned.

 

I have no desire to cure my son. I think he's wonderful and he's very self aware and happy to be himself. I do however, wish that I could make things easier for him. I would hate to think that he faces a life of depression and feeling that he has in some way failed because he doesn't live the life that others do.

 

I struggle to see what any education system could do to make my son more employable, he is intelligent enough to gain a first class honours degree but he is unlikely to ever be able to put it to use. The work place does not give anyone a statement of work need and as you so rightly put it, his disabilities are invisible, he will only appear a little odd.

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I struggle to see what any education system could do to make my son more employable, he is intelligent enough to gain a first class honours degree but he is unlikely to ever be able to put it to use. The work place does not give anyone a statement of work need and as you so rightly put it, his disabilities are invisible, he will only appear a little odd.

Universites are often reckoned to be among the biggest employers of undiagnosed aspies (I have often thought my father might be one of them), it may be that he can pursue an academic career.

 

Simon

Edited by mossgrove

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hi tez i think with the right help and support they could go on to fullfilling jobs society has the problems with it not us the only 2 people i can think of who went on to achieve higher ambitions in life are steven speilberg and bill gates who partially invented the very thing we are talking to each other on right now but then again having spoken to my sister in america they seem more advanced than us a lot of money goes into getting children diagnosed as early as possible to help them get a good education as possible keep smilin luv karin xx

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I too want an academic career: less work, more money.

 

4%? That's lower than the one I recounted from memory, but I take your points Mossgrove about the flaws in the study. I believe my figure is likely the more accurate, making one in five Aspies in work.

 

I hope to actually do something in Autism research but I have no idea how to get to that, I currently just criticise everything I come across. There are scientists out there who make a living from destroying other scientists work without ever making any advances of their own.

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Lucas

 

I would love to see some research done into adults with ASD's fare in society. I am interested to a poiunt in research on causes of Autism, but much of the rearch funding seems to have the idea behind it that a test should be developed that would allow worried parents to seek terminations if they got a result they didn't like.

 

A good starting point would be some kind of survey to identify how many people there are in society who have ASD's. In the adult population there are many, many people who have ASD's but no diagnosis, or who were diagnosed too late to have the help and support they needed while growing up.

 

Simon

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HI LUCAS IF YOU DO SOMETHING IN AUTISM COULD YOU ASSESS MY TWINS FIRST YOU MAY BE THE ONE TO TELL ME THEY HAVE ASD/ADHD AS EVERY SPECIALIST I HAVE SEEN CANNOT DO THAT OR I HAVE JUST NOT FOUND THE RIGHT PERSON I KNOW HE/SHE IS OUT THERE YOU MAY BE THE VERY PERSON KEEP SMILIN LUV KARIN XX

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I work as a university researcher but have applied to take up a position in industry. I submitted my CV over a week ago but have had no reply from the company yet.

 

Universities, like much of the public sector are bureaucratic rule bound places. Many of the rules are also unwritten and often one doesn't find out about them until they break them! Salaries are not all that good in academia any more and often pay less than in industry. Universities have also become more commercially oriented and are now run along similar lines to businesses. They have to fight amongst each other for government funding and are increasingly forced to earn money from commercial contracts. Academic careers are no longer secure employment. Research groups sometimes disintegrate or close due to loss of staff, lack of success, or funding cuts and if ones skills cannot be put to good use then researchers will lose their jobs. In some instances, entire departments close down. My findings are that hardly any university academics and lecturers have heard of AS and probably couldn't care less about the issue.

 

I know this sounds pessimistic but it is the truth. At least within engineering departments. One must not fall into the trap of thinking that university is an easy ride for all or a haven for those with AS.

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I think the picture is pretty grim actually. This is not intend to upset people but from what I know it is a fact that few adults do work. When we did the Call for Action in 2002 it became clear that some of our HFA/AS adults are highly qualified but do not work :( Parents with HFA/AS adults are left pulling their hair out by the roots. I have often wondered why we fight so hard and so many battles to educate our kids when no one wants to employ them?

 

I now know numerous adults with ASD and at the moment only 1 of those adults is working :( One tried to run his own business but could not handle it. One has a Masters Degree but works as a filing clerk :( Most of the others also have degrees but no work. :( They all find life pretty grim althoughy many do voluntary work - but that is cold comfort to me.

 

Although I know that we must fight for our kids to be educated, I do worry that parents are missing the point. The point is we are educating them to do what? Also education does not develop their social skills and effective communication skills. These are both skills that are required in a work place. The bigger picture is that our kids will become adults with ASD and at the moment there is almost nothing on offer for them.

 

Yes some Aspies do work as lectures etc but believe me they are in the minority and not the majority.

 

We really need to be doing something about this now while our kids are still kids.

 

Carole

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I'll start my own damn uni then!

 

It'll have lots of big confusing buildings and a Latin motto above the door that no one can remember what it means. Everything a university should be.

 

Thank you centralised government for trying to push as many into higher education as possible without picking up the tab. How wonderful that so many areas of study are neglected in favour of promoting non-subjects like media studies and food technology, where dim-wits learn what anybody could make up.

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non-subjects like media studies and food technology, where dim-wits learn what anybody could make up.

I could take exception to that, Lucas.

I helped 'make up' the web design part of a media studies course once.

Having said that, it was stupidly easy as I had already tested it with a class of 14-15 year-olds the year before.

 

Having said that, that too was easy as I had already tested it with a class of 9-10 year-olds the year before.

 

No prizes for guessing which group learnt most and created the best Flash movies

:P

 

And when you start your uni, put the Topology dept. in the hardest to find part of your most confusing building. And give the students 10 credits for finding it :devil:

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Referring to initial thread question [how many adults diagnosed with AS work?]

 

I am 42 years old, and I have barely been into working life.

Psychologist said I could eventually manage to work in a pizza bakery, right wing psychiatrist said I would benefit socially from working on a post with many people..

 

Socially I am an observer, I rarely participate, and I am still, as ever, very confused as to the social rules and cues, this making me a 100 % unfit for working life.

 

I am receiving pension from the assurance office, and when I first received it in 1997, I got a huge amount of money as it was calculated with impact back to 1990. I don't know the diagnosis, and I am very curious to know.

 

I am however very happy, have always been, being able to absorb deeply in my special interest as I have a lot of time to do so. :)

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I have often thought my son would be great as a home based worker, perhaps something to do with computers, or games testing he would love that one! :wub:

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Same here, my son (9) would spend his whole life on the computer if we let him.

 

My hubby, who defintely has some AS traits, (non-dx) is a manager working for the council. He got there by just getting on with the job basically, everything he has done at work seems to involve either lists or maps, sounds really boring but he loves it, and now he supervises other people making lists and maps - or that's how it seems to me! He holds a masters degree in Anglo Saxon studies and did his dissertation by making a list of the history of Northumbrian place names which is well used by other students at the Uni!

 

My friend reckons he's got a lot of AS traits too, he's a sub-editor and spends his time correcting peoples' grammar and setting pages. From what I understand many people working in the Silicone Valley in USA have AS traits and as a result the rate of AS in that area among children is very high. See article in Wired magazine called "The Geek Syndrome" - it's very interesting and can be found on the web somewhere if you do a search.

 

 

 

 

 

:) Daisy

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I have often thought my son would be great as a home based worker, perhaps something to do with computers, or games testing he would love that one! :wub:

Elaine,what age is your son? he could possibly get into testing now(as far as I can remember, the devs don't supply the consoles but they do give the game copies for evaluation)-the basic testing isn't paid work as such but I do know that younger children have been taken on by developers,the only problem with this is testing jobs(if you could call playing games a job :D ) are in demand and pretty much impossible to find unless the person joins a waiting list.

 

 

 

Original topic-I don't work,and have never had a job although have done some work experience.

 

I am determined to do work of some sort(in home,only)-i'm currently learning how to build PCs,and want to build or fix PCs for others-I don't know whether I could do this as a paid job from home because I would have to pay out for insurance.

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The thing with stats is they can say what you want and they never give you the whole picture.

 

I have come to terms with having undiagnosed AS. It's taken me 40 years to learn enough social skills to get by the majority of the time, with a supportive husband. I have worked, but up until a few years ago, I stayed at home with the kids as my excuse. Before that i was mostly off with 'depression'.

 

The trick is to find a job you can handle and a work environment that's okay for you. Never undervalue your experiences as a person with AS- the more awareness grows, the more your opinions will be valued. I work for a support group and I love it.

 

My children are being taught everything it took me so long to learn. I get them to double check my newsletters as their eagle eyes can spot mistakes so easily- I think they could be proof readers! However, Lucy is going to be an author in the North of Scotland, or so she says!

 

I decided there was little to be gained by being diagnosed. I do have difficulties, but also compensations for them. I expect there are lots of working adults with ASDs- we just don't know about the ones who do find a way to cope.

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I've actually found it to be the opposite from my experiences; the more awarness grows, the harder it becomes to talk to people because they actually think they know more than me about Autism.

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According to our psychiatrist, AS specialists discovered that there were more AS diagnosis in Eindhoven than the rest of the Netherlands put together. Turns out, that the biggest employer by far in Eindhoven is Philips. Apparently similar demographics can be found in Silicon Valley

 

I am of the opinion that regardless of what a particular qualification may be useful for or not and regardless of weather the person is capable of holding that position. Taking to course should be encouraged. Higher levels of education however will need higher levels of support. Certificates do open doors. Having said that I do think carol has a point.. some form of �life skill education is essential� however I fear it currently falls to parents.

 

Regarding the static?s. They are not saying that autism may be affecting as many as 1 in 200/300 people. That would lead to suggest that there are significant numbers of un diagnosed AS people out there and presumable some are in full time employment. .

 

For my self , I am 38 I received an AS dx in the last few months. Until November last leas I had never heard of AS I have been in full time employment since I left college. I will never be people manager material, but I get by.

 

One question is would you put it on you CV? Personally I would not.

 

J

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There is a company in Switzerland which employs *only* Autistics, recognising unique skills. Unless that kind of information gets out, AS or Autistic will never be a good thing to put down on a CV.

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I would think it's unlikely that it would. But in the infinite improbability that it should happen we are allowed to state that any diagnosis for any medical condition is none of their business and if this has any effect on the decision to employ then they are breaking the law.

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If you were asked about AS at a job interview then how is it best to reply?

 

the irony is if AS is a disability, they cant discriminate, however i would not like to put that to the test

 

Fist off honestly. I would have to say how it afected me , and how I manage that.

 

 

J

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I am not in paid employment simply because I cannot cope with working and doing the domestic chores as well. Also I am not in paid work because I cannot cope with working under pressure. Also I don't want to be bullied again.

 

My parents went away for 7 weeks once. It was the first time I had been on my own without them for that length of time. At that time I had a voluntary job for 2 and a half days a week at a disability organisation. I was also doing the domestic chores like washing and ironing, shopping and cooking, and a bit od cleaning.

 

The first two weeks seemed ok but when they rang me up I was in a bad way. I had become anxious as well as tired. I was told to forget the house. This was a good test for me as it made me realise that I couldn't cope with a job and doing the domestic chores. The job was only part time as well.

 

When my Mum died, I took over the domestic duties. I now do the shopping and cooking, washing and ironing and a bit of cleaning. I also do voluntary computer work for the other part of the mornings. I work at the church for a morning each week.

 

I could not combine all this with a job as well.

 

From Debbie Hudson

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If you were asked about AS at a job interview then how is it best to reply?

 

It is discriminatory for an employer to ask you this during an interview. I would personally also leave this information off a CV. They only need to know AFTER they have given you the job.

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I have recently got to know a man who has Aspergers syndrome and it has been an education for me. He holds down two jobs, not sure exactly what but he works for a living and also does a lot of fundraising for Daisy Chain respite centre locally. He has obvious difficulties with socialising but he comes along to a pop quiz every week as part of our team and his knowledge of music has helped us to many a victory B) He lives independently with some support and does really well for himself. So he is proof that it IS possible for some people with ASDs to work and have a full social life too!

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My job application got rejected before I even had an interview.

 

I am thinking about becoming self employed and wouldn't mind being a private tutor. I can teach maths and electronics. Does anyone know if there is any demand for electronics tutors or is the subject too small to be worth bothering with?

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I don't know which area you live - but is there any Adult Education college where you could freelance as an electronics tutor and you may find that there could be maths tutoring opportunities down this route as well.

 

Best wishes

 

Helen

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Canopus,

 

I'm pretty sure most FE colleges run courses for people to qualify to teach adults, in more practical subjects like hairdressing, building, etc.

 

It might be worth investigating your local FE college?

 

Good luck.

 

Bid :)

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Gosh, it's quite depressing reading this thread and reading the low figures quoted. I have always assumed and expected that my son will work and live an independent life based on what I see around me really. My DH has some AS-traits, more so as a child than an adult, but he works successfully in academia in a health care capacity. His cousin, never diagnosed but barn-door AS has a well paid job in IT. Neither have had any major difficulties working but maybe it's because they have chosen careers that utilise their traits rather than be hindered by them. Another friend's H who works in IT says the industry is full of people with AS or AS-like qualities echoing hwat someone else said about the high incidence in Silicon Valley

 

Liz

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There is a company in Switzerland which employs *only* Autistics, recognising unique skills. Unless that kind of information gets out, AS or Autistic will never be a good thing to put down on a CV.

It's similar to the job/recruitment company-Prospects in the UK-taking on only autistics.

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Gilbo,

 

Don't worry too much...I think this figure was taken from a realtively small sample of people who answered a questionnaire.

 

I think there are loads of pople with AS or AS 'qualities' who have jobs, etc.

 

And you are at one of the best places to get all the right support and information over getting a job that suits you!

 

Try not to worry >:D<<'>

 

Bid :)

 

Say 'Hi' to Auriel tomorrow for me ;)

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