Tribunals

[lisa]

I hope I don't get in trouble with the moderators for this, sorry if it's not allowed.

 

If you've been to tribunal and thought you had a strong case but lost. Please PM me with the name of the chairperson. I'm sure we wouldn't be able to name and shame on the forum but perhaps if the same names keep turning up, we could send a petition to SENDIST to train these people on ASD's. The realisation that Helen and I, both having extremely strong cases, were turned down by the same chairman has got me thinking, how many more strong ASD cases has he turned down and how often is the decision late?

 

Lisa

[helenl53]

Hi Lisa,

 

I had not thought of ignorance in the decision making process. I assumed that these people had excellent knowledge of ASD's and this inspired me with the confidence that we would get a fair hearing.

 

This is not sour grapes, but you are quite right. If they do not understand ASD and the effect on our kids then, we are on a hiding to nothing and as ASD is the most common disability for the Tribunal cases, then they need to know what they are dealing with to be able to make an objective and safe decision. I don't know about your, but I did not find any forums, before or after the Tribunal where parents spoke about their experience, and when you think about it, considering the membership of this forum, there are not that many threads about the Tribunal process or decisions.

 

Best wishes

 

HelenL

[Kathryn]

I think I read somewhere in the SENDIST literature that the panel are not required to have any particular knowledge about the disability under discussion.

[helenl53]

Oh my goodness - the world has gone mad!

 

I would like to fly a 747 - I don't have any knowledge of how to fly a plane - but never mind - in our mad world - that should not present a problem!

 

This has actually made me feel better.

 

I have just been trying to explain about how an open plan area (small partition for half way down the room) with 60 kids in it could be considered to be not open plan - well it isn't open plan when the chair of a tribunal writes inhis decision that he was happy with the explanation given by the SENCO that seperate lessons went on in this area and that they shared a work area therefore he accepted her explanation that it was "not really 'open plan'"

 

This is too absurd for words!

 

Love

 

helen

[lisa]

Helen

 

I think the chairman's totally missing the point of why this kind of set up wouldn't suit an ASD child. If he accepted that if both classes are doing different work/lessons then this isn't a problem he's only looking at things from an academic point of view and not a sensory one. Irrespective of the work they're doing, 60 kids in one room is still open plan. I personally think Mr S.... H...... (chairman) has got absolutely no understanding, compassion or sympathy for AS kids. To him SEN is only academics which he has proved by disregarding both your and our medical advice.

 

He also must think himself exempt from the 10 working day rule for the decision. This to me shows little respect or sympathy for the plight of the family concerned. The man is a disgrace.

 

Lisa

[Zemanski]

I know we've been lucky and I have no idea whether there was any ASD knowledge on the panel at either of our tribunals but both chairs were excellent, in our second tribunal I hardly had to speak at all, he did all the work for us.

 

now our ombudsman did have ASD knowledge which was totally unexpected!

 

Zemanski

[PinkSapphireAngel]

I am going to tribunal on the 23rd of THIS MONTH with what I believe is a strong case against our LEA for refusing to assess my ASD/AS/Dyspraxic son.

 

I find it amazing the panel do not have to have knowledge of the disability????

[UltraMum]

Our answer is 'No'

 

I'll dig out the name of the chairperson and PM you

[madme]

Im not sure what I thought of the panel. I felt that the Lea ed psch was allowed to say things that he shouldnt have We won butnot for the right reasons. I found the whole thing very difficult and im in the leagl filed with plenty of court experience

[JsMum]

The posts replys are very interesting but I am also appauled that these professionals making decisions on our childrens lives have no trainging, awareness or understanding, it is very disturbing, the 747 was a brillaint aquivalant.

 

I have a question. if you loose the tribunal is that it, all is lost,

 

If J doesnt get a statement and it goes to tribunal and looses I am taking him out of the educational system all together, but what else can you do if you loose. is it really the end of the road?

 

 

JsMum

[helenl53]

J's Mum - never give up!

 

I think there are some on this panel who have gone a number of times to tribunals before geting THE RIGHT decision.

 

Someone will come along to let us know about how this works.

 

Lisa, by the way, I had to ask SENDIST to consider a late appeal in view of information that was not known by us at the time of the Tribunal and it was put back before SH who gave the opinion that he did not feel that there had been any procedural errors and as he did not feel I would be successful, he was not allowing an appeal! - I was not allowed to question how this decision had been reached

 

I can not say publicly too much at the moment - but I have not given up! - I have been knocked down at 4 fences so far - but got up and got a few more to go

 

It is never over until the fat lady.......

[lisa]

Helen, That man is truly disgraceful and shouldn't be doing that job. I'm convinced that he's probably some ex-LEA officer or Ed Psych who's waging his own personal vendetta against parents. The man has no compassion. Do I sound bitter? Have you heard anymore from the secretary of state?

 

J's Mum, We felt very similar to you and have been so close to taking her out of the education system all together, it's so unfair that we feel we have no other option. We've chosen at this time to continue to fight. We plan to apply again for statutory assessment and no doubt will end up at tribunal again. Hopefully we'll have better luck, we've spent the time trying to build an even stronger case, we can't do much more.

 

Good Luck for the 23rd PinkSaphire.

 

Lisa

[Malika]

Hi to all.

 

I lost my tribunal and it was just for statutory assesment, Kathryn is right people on the panel do not need to have specific knowledge of the specific SEN. In my case for sure there were a man who could relate to everything I was saying and the women with Sen experience was shock to see that the school and LEA had no idea of H needs except tryng to denie his DX, I think the chairman was the one who made the decision and did not have much knowledge of ASD.

 

I will send you a PM with the name.

 

Malika.

[Malika]

Forgot to say that the decision was made to "prefer" the report from the EP (working for the LEA) against the medical report and mother opinion (I had support from the apsea who thought I had a good case). officialy the school did not back me up but did not show much point against me either.

[Helen_1980]

This is an interesting thread as we are on a likely path to tribunal. We will appeal against parts 2,3 and 4 of the statement. There is no provision specified or quantified.

 

I just wanted to ask - how many of you have had legal representation? I think that can make a big difference for a number of reasons and I will definitely get a lawyer to represent us.

[PinkSapphireAngel]

We did not have legal representation (we went SENDIST last Thursday against LEA refusal to assess)

but my cousin is a solicitor in Northern Ireland and her dad, my uncle is a high court judge so I can get advice on legal aspects from them.

 

IF we in and get the assessment I am ready and willing to fight if they refuse a statement and would seriously look inot maybe having an IPSEA rep there (as it would seriously wind our LEA officer right up and frankly she deserves it.

[Helen_1980]

It's disgusting that you're having to go to tribunal for assessment - unbelievable. How old is your child? I thought we might have had to go to tribunal for assessment too, but the LEA agreed to conduct an assessment. Our daughter hasn't started school yet so perhaps that's lucky for us that that doesn't complicate the issue. I have heard of people winning quite complicated cases on their own without legal representation but I won't be doing that myself. I have been thinking about whether the tribunal panel are influenced by how you as parents look. They should be impartial, but are only human. I am quite young (25) and look younger than I am so I think this means I command less respect from people.

[PinkSapphireAngel]

My son is 11 so is in his last year of Primary school now.

 

I got the feeling our tribunal panel quite liked me, they even stuck up for me and dh against the LEA woman when she told lies and said we were obviously caring parents and not the sort to just not bother listing choices for secondary schools for our son as the LEA tried to say.

[Kathryn]

This is an interesting thread as we are on a likely path to tribunal. We will appeal against parts 2,3 and 4 of the statement. There is no provision specified or quantified.

 

I just wanted to ask - how many of you have had legal representation? I think that can make a big difference for a number of reasons and I will definitely get a lawyer to represent us.

 

Helen,

 

We appealed twice: the first time against refusal to assess and the second time when they refused to issue a statement. Neither case made it as far as tribunal for different reasons.

 

The first time I prepared our case myself with the excellent help of the NAS, and we would have represented ourselves, had the LEA not backed down a few weeks before the tribunal date.

 

The second time, we had the help of an experienced IPSEA rep to prepare our case. Had this case gone to tribunal we would definitely have felt happier with him representing us on the day, which he would have done for a fraction of the usual legal cost. He has done over 100 tribunals and in his opinion, hiring a lawyer isn't necessarily a good idea as it puts the Tribunal Chair's nose out of joint - they don't like it as they are legally trained themselves and like to be in control.

 

I definitely think some kind of support is essential - just having someone experienced and objective looking at your case makes a big difference- as a parent you get so caught up in the situation emotionally you can't see the wood for the trees. I can definitely recommend IPSEA or the NAS if you need help.

 

Good luck with whatever you decide

 

K x

[Zemanski]

We used PP for both tribunals and our supporter was excellent. PP don't do it for you but they back you up and help with the paperwork and presentation. Unfortunately not all PPs are so good and these days I would go for IPSEA given the choice.

 

I too have heard that chairs do not like lawyers and are more likely to be sympathetic to a less formal approach. I certainly felt staff at both tribunals were on our side and that was a sort of worry for me as we're a bit hippyish and I thought it would be more formal.

 

Zemanski

[Helen_1980]

I completely agree that it is difficult to view things objectively. I think it is very wrong that we have so much to go through as parents just to get what our children need. My daughter will never cope with the sort of "support" the LEA has proposed. I shudder to think what would happen to her.

 

Zemanski - it's encouraging to hear that you had a positive experience with PP. Interesting what you say about getting solicitors involved. I can see how that might be so but was always told you may need a solicitor if you have a case that needs careful preparation by a solicitor/barrister who is able to quote case law.

 

Is the tribunal panel selected from all over the country?

[PinkSapphireAngel]

I spoke to IPSEA shortly before tribunal (against refusal to assess) I had pretty much prepared my case but wanted their opinion on it so I sent their tribunal advisor a copy of all the paperwork, they were great and helped me to focus and see through what the LEA were trying to do (they tried to blame the school as the school had not really tried to meet Ls needs, but if I had gone along with this then the tribunal would have blamed the school too and said the LEA had no obligation to assess untill school sorted themselves out)

 

After talking to IPSEA I was able to change my focus and sat in the tribunal sticking up for the school saying they had tried but were unable to meet his needs with their own resources.

 

WE WON (Got letter Saturday)

[Cynical]

I think that a lot of the assumptions on this thread are missing the point - why would you be asked to sit on or even chair a tribunal hearing if you knew nothing about SEN? It's laughable!

 

Even tribunals would never get away with that - and you're wrong to imagine that those chairing it know nothing about the needs of the children at the centre of the appeal.

 

However, as Mary Warnock discovered when she investigated the problems at the centre of the SEN system in 2005, the people sitting on (and even chairing) tribunals are local authority employees.

 

They may not get paid by the specific LEAs at the centre of the appeals they are adjudicating, but they know how to please their own paymasters...

 

They know damn well what they are doing.