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nysnanna

ADHD/ASD medication

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Our soon to be 6 year old grandson began Ritalin 4 weeks ago and is now taking 18mg a day slow release. He has been diagnosed with ADHD and ASD. The ritalin was prescribed to try to help with behaviour so that he can begin to learn at school. He is much much calmer and when we have him to stay at the weekends he is able to concentrate for long periods on his Geomag and Knex, which is wasn't able to do before. His autistic side does now though appear to be much worse and he has returned to lots of hand licking, mouth wiping and is looking very pale with dark rings under his eyes. We had heard somewhere that this could hapen but there was another drug mentioned that could be prescribed for ADHD that did not cause the same problems with the autistic side. Does anyone know anything about this or other drugs? We are all still unsure whether medication is the best thing and we are feeling very guilty about it.

His new IEP is no different to the one he had at nursery school 2 and a half years ago - concentrating on trying to get him to behave more appropriately, sit still at story time etc. They are talking about reducing his one to one support, he only gets 6 hours a week as it is, and he is still no nearer to having any idea about how to read or even build up simple words. We agreed to the Ritalin to give him some opportunity to learn, but the teacher says that though he calmer he does not appear to be concentrating any better because he is too conerned with the hand licking etc.. WE are not too happy with the school, either with the progress he is making or the amount of support that he gets but we never seem to get anywhere with the headmaster who always says that is all he has been allocated. Not too sure where to go from here as we want him to progress at school but are concerned about the return of more autistic traits. Are some drugs better for ADHD with ASD any advice would be great. Sorry to havve rambled on again. Teresa

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Hi Teresa,

 

The drug mentioned was probably Strattera. My son too has ADHD and ASD (he is 7).

 

When he was on Ritalin, he calmed down significantly. He also played Ludo with my Dad for 2 hours solidly!

 

However, like your grandson, his autistic behaviours were accentuated. He became very obsessive and down. He also started nail biting and blinking alot.

 

Ritalin can cause tics to appear in some children, so maybe that's what the hand licking and mouth wiping is all about. When my son started nail biting and blinking, his consultant said that these were tics caused by the Ritalin, and should subside. I did not keep him on Ritalin long enough to find out, as he became too down and withdrawn.

 

He was then tried on Stratterra, which is a new non-stimulant drug for ADHD. I was told by the consultant (and had heard elsewhere) that it did not effect the ASD side of things. Unfortunately the capsules were big, and Kai couldn't swallow them. It is only made by one drug company.

 

I would suggest that your grandson's consultant is informed of the hand licking/mouth wiping. It is still early days, so hopefully it will settle.

 

Good luck and take care, you sound like fantastic grandparents,

 

Loulou x

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Teresa

 

Your Grandson's headmaster is not being straight with you.

 

If your grandson needs more 1:1 support he needs more 1:1 support and it is the schools legal responsibility to provide it or they are denying him access to the education he needs because he has a disability.

 

The allocation/funding issue is a red herring. If the head needs more resouces he should ask for them, but it is wrong to involve you in that decsion, budgets are a matter for him and not you. If he starts trying to discuss budgets with you you are quite within your rights to decline to dicuss them and ask that the conversation be returned to your grandchilds needs.

 

I do not know your child, but from what you have said it seems that you should apply for an assesment of your childs Soecial Educational Needs with a view to getting a statement, based on the lack of progress so far.

 

You can do this yourself, it is better to have the school on board but not essential. You will find plenty of advice on her about how that should be done.

 

 

Simon

Edited by mossgrove

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Hi

 

Although the ritalin may be to blame for the increase in autistic behaviours, don't rule out the possiblity that they may not be connected.

 

His behaviour could be a reaction to something else in his environment which is increasing his levels of stress, and thereby his need for stims (eg hand licking). His school situation could be at the root of this - every term it will get harder for a child with ASD to cope, and if the school hasn't recognised this and put in place an IEP which is appropriate, then this will get worse.

 

There's lots of advice on the forum about school provision and statementing (to secure specific funding) - it sounds like you are close to having to go down this route.

 

Of course, you should also speak to the professional who prescribed the medication.

 

Take care

 

Elanor

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We had heard somewhere that this could hapen but there was another drug mentioned that could be prescribed for ADHD that did not cause the same problems with the autistic side. Does anyone know anything about this or other drugs? We are all still unsure whether medication is the best thing and we are feeling very guilty about it.

 

Think the drug you are referring to is atomoxetine (Strattera). It's a non-stimulant, different class of drug which related to the SSRI antidepressants like prozac (fluoxetine) and seroxat (sertraline). It works differently gradually with the effect gradually building up in the child and apparently has been successfully used in many children as it doens't have the samse side effects of ritalin or related drugs. However there have been some reports recently of children on it having an increased in suicidal thoughts (this has been a concern with SSRIs in the under-18) so may not be the wonder drug it was initially thought to be

 

HTH

 

Liz x

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We have noticed the increase in J's autistic side with ritalin - we try to go for a balance of controlling the worst hyperactivity with the minimal autistic side effects. We have asked several times about Stratterra but it isn't available in our area ... :(

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We have noticed the increase in J's autistic side with ritalin - we try to go for a balance of controlling the worst hyperactivity with the minimal autistic side effects. We have asked several times about Stratterra but it isn't available in our area ... :(

A lot of the time, it isn't really that the stimulants "increase" autism, more that Autism and ADHD can sometimes mask each other, so if you remove one, the other is "unmasked".

 

Where do you live? It seems strange that they claim Strattera is not available in your area. In any case, as I said a lot of the time the incrase in Autistic symptoms is not down to the medication itself, just that the ADHD is hidden temporarily so the Autism on its own appears stronger. In that case, the Strattera may not prove different from Ritalin in that respect.

Edited by Noetic

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Hi MotherEve,

 

Straterra is a really expensive drug, so that's why you have probably been told it's not available :( .

 

Also, i was told by my son's consultant, that the stimulant affect of Ritalin can make a child who also has ASD over concentrate (if that makes sense). This could explain why they become more obsessive. When Kai was on Ritalin, he would do things like arrange and re-arrange his train tracks solidly for up to six hours, without a train ever getting on the tracks. He also started lining up toys alot more, and for a long time.

 

I would agree with Noetic that the ADHD "masks" the autism too. It wasn't until Kai was on Ritalin that i realised that ADHD wasn't his only problem and he was then investigated and dx with ASD.

 

If you're not happy with Ritalin, i would ask again about Straterra.

 

Loulou x

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We tried Concerta (slow-release ritalin) for about six months.

 

The consultant said it can cause anxiety and this certainly proved the case for us. As anxiety seemed to greatly accentuate the AS traits we stopped it. I would agree with Noetic's take on possible 'masking'.

 

The consultant said that Strattera would be better but we decided that as his ADHD was not our main concern we'd do without.

 

Barefoot

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Have you thought of chelating for heavy metals instead of Ritalin or the others? My 8-year-old son started over the summer with NDF+ and a couple other things, and he's doing extremely well right now. It's amazing! Keep hopeful!

Edited by Believer

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Have you thought of chelating for heavy metals instead of Ritalin or the others? My 8-year-old son started over the summer with NDF+ and a couple other things, and he's doing extremely well right now. It's amazing! Keep hopeful!

I always find this suggestion odd - Yes if a kid has heay metal poisoning, by all means treat that. But how exactly is detoxing a kid supposed to "fix" a neurological difference like ADHD, which revolves around a biological difference in brain structure and functioning?

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Guest hallyscomet

Hi

 

I have the answer to your problems, I have one of the best Specialists here in Australia and my son behaved like you all explained with the Ritalin.

 

Ritalin alone doesn't work.... He introduced a 1/4 then 1/2 tablet of a drug called Catapres along with the Ritalin.

 

When you give a child Ritalin (beforehand their mind is like so, you ask or give them instructions just to do one or two tasks, - in our children the doctor said it is like someone throwing a bucket load of information at them all jumbled up, and its all messed up, they cannot process the information. Its like they have a hearing problem, but it is a processing problem).

 

What Ritalin does is send more messages so the information gets across, an enzyme in their brain eats away the information. So inaction and hyperactivity.

With regard to the Autism problems licking and all that stuff the Catapres works like a gem, and there are no side effects, it is totally safe for 5 year olds. This combination of Catapres with Ritalin presented with a child for the first time ever appeared as a normal child, sat still as a normal child, was able to focus and look at you. Was alert and happy and felt good about himself.

 

My son had Ritalin on waking with 1/4 Catapres then every 3 1/2 hours, my son is severely disabled by his condition. Everyone that knows my son couldn't believe the changes in him. From this day on he was able to attend mainstream school.

 

I hope this helps, this medication has been used in the US and certainly Australia in conjunction to Ritalin as you are treating ADHD and ASD in most cases.

 

It gave me and my son a gift of life. Just sitting and watching him do stuff, I was overwhelmed and so happy for him, as the first time in his life there were no odd behaviours. His doctor sees him every 3 months and cant believe the progress he has made. Even his teachers were gobsmacked....

As he got older he only needed it in the morning and in the afternoon around 5pm. I saw many very good specialists and second and third opinions and they were all for what my son was having. They knew the medication well.

 

I hope this helps you understand ADHD and ASD

 

Regards

Hailey

 

Only thing is you decide to stop this medication you must never stop it straight off, you need to take them off it gradually under the advise of your Paediatrician.

ask your Paediatrician or one that specialises in ADHD and ASD they will know this medication Catapres. Remember it doesn't work alone, it needs to be taken with Ritalin.

Edited by hallyscomet

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my son has been cooperating beautifully with Tenex and is out of control without it (well, we're using the generic which is guanfacine).

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My son takes Clonidine hydrochloride which is the same as Catapres (Catapres is the manufacturer label which very few places use now) which I believe is the same type of drug as Guanfacine both Antihypertensive. This antihypertensive treatment can and is used alone in some cases, my son takes the Clonidine on a regular basis but only takes the Ritalin when he is at school.

 

I know some parents who've had zero success with Ritalin, Clonidine and both together, every child is different, it's a case of finding what is best for your child.

 

With any of these medications for ADHD the ASD symptoms can increase as you are increasing the childs ability to concentrate, so things like obsessions and things that are bothering him/her can increase. For example when my son is taking his Ritalin flies bother him more, he pulls at his clothes more as they bother him more, but on the plus side he cannot concentrate at school without it and has progressed beyond my expectations by just being able to concentrate more.

 

The hand wiping, sunken eyes and licking make sure he is drinking and eating plenty, his medication will affect both appetite and wanting to drink, my son ended up with sores on his mouth when on the slow release as he refused to drink or eat and he dehydrated. I much prefer him taking the non slow release as we stagger his 2 day time meds to make sure he eats when the previous tablet is wearing off then from 4 pm he has no ritalin so he gets a decent meal and actually sleeps for a little while which the slow release didn't let him do.

Edited by lil_me

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nysnanna,

 

My son also has both ADHD and ASD. He gets 3 full days 1:1 classroom assistance, plus every lunchtime he has a supervisor. His problem is with behaviour not academic probs.

 

The point is, we have a good school. If your grandson only gets 6 hurs, that is awful. If he hasn't progressed with his IEP, then his IEP is all wrong. The targets must be achievable. If he isn't achieving, they cannot remove his extra help.

 

Is he at school action, or school action plus?

 

I have personally just applied to have my son assessed for a statement to prevent the school from removing any help from him.

 

Contact Parent Partnership. They are very helpful, and will advise you what to do next.

 

Parent Partnership

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