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Malika

Autism the reasons: Genetic MMR/ mercury

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Well cure and reatment if I understand well are 2 different things treatment is to take medication to reduce or releive the symptome, cure is to find a treatment which not only remove the symptoms but remove the cause of the symptoms that is why it is heavier, but to loook for treatment to releive the symptoms but not to look for a cure who whould remove the cause of the symptoms does not make sens to me, but I understand that it is all very frightening when there is any implication with the brain this refere probably to the disastrous procedure use to treat certain psychopath "lobotomy". But yet again that was a treatment not a cure. :wacko:

 

However when I think of cure I only see it as investigation and treatment to reestablish the proper balance of chemical in the body in order to have the whole body and brain working again normaly.

 

Suffering from hypothyroidism I know far too well how the lack of thyroxin in my body did affect all of it including my brain. Now I am treated by taking thyroxin which I will have to take for the rest of my life and the balance is far from being perfect so if there were a cure avalaible to make my thyroid function again properly in order for me not to have to take medication every day and to be "normal" again frankly I woud go for it. ;)

 

My daughter suffer frome Grave disease where her thyroid produce too much thyroxin (with dangerous consequences) because attacked by her somehow confuse immune system now she is taking medication to destroy the overdose of thyroxin in her body eventually they hope that the thyroid will burn itself out and stop producing so much, to see that in december after 2 years on medication she will stop taking her tablets and we will see if her thyroid has stoped working so much. If not her thyroid will have to be removed, because she is so young and still growing using radioctive iodine is not the best option so if needed she wants to go for operation. After all that she probably will need to take thyroxin as her level may not be adequate. :unsure:

Now all what I have discribe so far no matter how invasive it is are just treatments but not acure the cure would be to stop the immune system attacking her thyroid who would then function again normaly and would be a much better option. It does not mean as well that even after all the stress an the effect on her character I would like to change my daughter. :wub:>:D<<'>

To bear in mind that my grand mother has suffer from the same problem which is call Basdow disease on the continent and the illness was attributed at the time to the stress she had been through during the 2nd world war. :ninja:

 

Another interesting point is that the claim of many alternative medecines is to say that they remove the cause of the synptoms while traditionnal medecine just allievate the symptoms often by medication creating even more unbalance in the body.

 

I hope this will clarify the matter. ;) In an Ideal world I still beleive that cure would be a much better solution, then we may argue thet autism is not disease as such so it cannot be cured however as we don't know exactly what it is, it is call a disorder what create the disorder is another matter.

 

If we take for example Down-syndrome children as we know now that their pb is due to an extra chromosome on a gene the only cure would be to remove that extra chromosome wich then would be genetical manipulation very dangerous and morally wrong.

Now the only prevention is test in pregnancy and a medical abortion which is not morally right either. However if the cause of the genetic mutation was known it would become possibe to prevent that mutation in the first place either by treatment during pregnancy or a cure preventing may be all sort of genetic mutation to happen in the first place. Of course we are far from that but may be one day in 100 year time most mutation could be prevented and I am not talking about genetical manipulation just preventing may be chemicals in our body to modified our genes without our knowledge. :oops:

 

By no mean this an advocacy for a perfect human being as imperfection are part of our humain condition which make this life worse living, it is just a scientific point of view as for me thanks to my believes I feel very strong to face what ever happen in my life so much that when they told me years ago that my daughter had water in her kidney (seen in the scan) which may means that she was a down syndrome baby I even refuse to consider an amniocentesis. :shame:

I hope I wont be misinterpreted on that one.

 

Take care all. >:D<<'>

 

Malika.

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This whole dicussion is about what is 'acceptable' and 'not acceptable' to qualify as a person with rights, I'm not sure what contribution I can make or if I can get through it without falling ill.

 

The spectrum does not exist because no one has proved it exists. It's a socially-drived value-laden model of Ideal and Comparison, the purpose of which is to remove what is actually known about Autism and replace it with projections and bizzarre theories. It is basically social engineering by introducing a term and attributing a meaning to it which is ambigious therefore beyond objective analysis.

 

I do not need to provide a link for this as many of those who study Autism and not it's multiple invented splinter models have said the spectrum is ambigious and nothing more than a value-laden measure of a person's worth in the eyes of others. There is no study that proves there are different degrees of Autism, only the ancedotal evidence of people who know all Autistics are different but have no idea why they are different and they know Autism is complex but have no idea why it is complex. Now Jaded has told me how everybody is different not just Autistics, but has no idea(expressed at least) as to why Autistics are different than non-Autistics in this regard.

 

Research, policy and debate about Autism is parent-led with little input from actual Autistic people. How Autism is regarded now has been shaped by the parental desire for absolution and reassurance. The only objective model of Autism that admits little is known by the standards of science isn't very absolute or reassuring, so is ignored in favour of all the quack versions of what Autism is which say 'this is what it is, this is what caused it, this is what will fix it! Send your money to...'

 

There is no biological cause put forward that explains why one in ten Autistics have a skill at Savant level.

 

If the cause was biological, the the causes put forward would indicated that cases of Autism have sky-rocketed and they haven't. There are two camps in the Autism community(which makes two Autism communities and one Autistic community which unlike the first two is actually made up mostly of Autistics): across the pond is the Bernard Rimland sect and over here is the Lorna Wing sect. They are important because these two people have been studying Autism longer than most other people and their views have changed the direction in which their respective countries have taken how Autism is regarded.

 

Those who know about Autism in Britain are far more tolerant of Autistics and accept the idea that it is indistinguishable from the person much more readily. They tend go with the accurate term 'Autistics' or 'Autistic people'. Wing had been studying Autistics and teaching others how to study Autistics in a manner which led to this.

 

But in America and Canada, Rimland and his camp were fighting the battle against Bettlehiem's Refridgerator Mother theory of Autism(the first non-science, non-accurate splinter model of Autism. 'Childhood Schizophrenia' was not because it was a plausable term based on the information at the time). The success relied on two things: revealing Bettlehiem as a charlatan who never even studied at the place he said he did and then there was the incidence of Autism among genetically identicle twins compared with non-identicle twins and Neurotypical siblings.

 

So while Wing was studying Autism with Autistics in mind, Rimland was doing so with the parents in mind. But he simply went from one ignorant and non-accurate view of Autism to a polar one that instead of blaming the parents vindicated them of the possibility that they can ever do anything wrong, only what is right for their children.

 

The shame is that Rimland-style Autism study is now the dominant one, not because it's correct, but because it's aggressive. The National Autistic Society here in the UK is very neutral in it's public policy statements about Autism, reflecting Wing's work. But US and Canadian Autism groups are aggressive and promote their views about Autistics aggressively. An Autistic is not worth having around if they remain Autistic, they must be fixed first before they can be accepted into the human race. Such views are now taking hold here and now parents flock to quacks telling lies because real scientists can't tell them the truths because the truths are elusive.

 

The worst thing is that they think all this doesn't contribute to our harm.

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Lucas

 

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts sometime on the increase in numbers of autists.

 

With regard to NT and ASD, from my observations we are all situational, only that those with ASD are more sensitive to their environment, etc. Not well expressed, I'm sure, but I'm tired.

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Hi, Lucas I was interested to read your thoughts on the "spectrum" term.You mentioned being" low functioning"................, having sweats etc and hoped to be better the next day for a class you were taking.I guess(??) you would mean this to be more higher functioning.Are these terms you are comfortable with?.....I find the idea of a spectrum easier to manage when I discuss autism as it can give a person an indication of the level that the autist is coping with(at that given time) .I always took it to be that more sensory overload would result in less functioning and being lower on the spectrum (I know I,ve put this in very basic terms please forgive me).For example you mentioned being overloaded by distractions and disturbance by the NT,s at home, would this result in you being low functioning, and if so without the disturbance and sensory overload do you function on a higher level.If this is so , this is how I percieved autism to be and the lower/ higher being the ends of the spectrum......have I made sense?.....please be gentle with me if I totally misunderstood you :rolleyes: . I believe my son moves up and down the spectrum daily depending on his surroundings.

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Hi Suze,

 

I can not speak for Lucas but I know that David's functioning is certainly affected by what is happening around him and I would apply this to Matthew to. David now tells me when he is being affected by whatever is happening in the house. Sadly there is not always anything that I can do to stop it from happening but it does impact on his level of functioning.

 

There are days when this can seriously disable David and make him feel ill. I think that the enviornment plays a huge part on both of my sons and that means that they both impact on each other :( So far I have not found a way round this.

 

Carole

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I 'feel' different as I move from one room to another, there are 'good rooms' and 'bad rooms' in some places and they affect functioning in a subtle way.

 

If the spectrum model should exist at all, it should definately be a measure of how well a person is coping. It would certainly be far more objective and accurate than the current thing I have to deal with. By this measure a better idea of what makes a person high or low functioning could be concieved. It is another benefit of Wing's influence that the difference between high and low functioning is ever scientifically considered and not merely used as a tool for excusing abusive dogma.

 

Of course, if mercury caused Autism then could it be that mercury just hangs around in the air SPECIFICALLY where there are loud, unpredictable and intrusive people? If it's Measles in the gut, does it only decide to do it's thing sometimes?

 

Of course not. Possibly the most fruitful line of research now would be to investigate what seperates those deemed 'high' and 'low' functioning and those whos' functioning varies. I'm not counting on this being anytime soon.

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Please forgive me Lucas by what I am about to say but I feel that many of the professionals define 'functioning' when they apply this word to people with autism in a totally different way to which we are talking about it here.

 

I feel that when professionals talk about someone with low functioning autism they mean someone who is probably non-verbal and maybe sits rocking in the corner. (Sorry that is a terribly un PC way of putting it)

 

I do not feel that they understand that the environment plays a HUGE part on the daily and even hourly functioning of a person with autism. A very good example of this is something that happened to my son Matthew two weeks ago. Matthew goes to Boys Brigade and loves it - well he did. They have now changed leaders and this has made a big difference to Matthew. Two weeks ago the new leader had been stamping her authority on the group I think. When we went to pick Matthew up he was as white as a sheet and stimming for England. He was very upset by the new leader and her new rules to the point that for the next four hours Matthew was not functioning at all. He came home rolled himself into his duvet and lay on the floor unable to talk to us. It was just too much for him. Slowly he began to take control again and was then able to tell us what had distressed him so much.

 

Both Matthew and David are affected by their environment to a huge extent. I know what you mean Lucas and feel that this is an aspect of ASD which is very much underplayed and not truly understood at the moment.

 

Carole

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There is a definitive meaning to the difference between high and low functioning across the pond in the US and Canada: You are low functioning if you are mentally retarded and the criteria for that among the chattering classes of what passes for 'experts' over there is an IQ below 70.

 

Why do I call them 'chattering class of what passes for experts'? Because they think IQ determines the supposed severity of Autism.

 

Another example of what constitutes high and low functiong is as you mentioned: verbal or non-verbal? This leaves no room for those who use sign-langauge or pictures to communicate and doesn't at all give any consideration to the specific reasons why a person may be non-verbal. I was non-verbal once because I plain simply didn't understand langauge(as we all were at some point, though I was six before I began speaking) at all and this was because any attempt to understand became a confusing mess. The language used around me was contradictory, ambigious or downright impossible(I've given the example before when my Mum said to me "The washing is out, don't let it rain"). There was later a problem with vocal dyspraxia, where I understood English but my under-used voicebox couldn't form words and at this age it was socially unacceptable for me to be making weird noises, so I was discouraged from even practicing.

 

I was made low functioning by the social enviroment, which the enviroment would not allow an Autistic to function, not Autism itself. I have yet to see proof that Autism itself is a direct cause of anything, that is why Autism is so puzzling to the chattering class experts: it doesn't apparently directly cause ANYTHING that can be scientifically analysed. Autism would be treated by the media the same way Dyslexia and ADHD is if it weren't for the fact that if you show the journalist an Autistic child or adult they are often lost for words and are too embarressed to form a typical opinion on how this condition is actually proof of where society has gone wrong.

 

The most laughable and discredited dividing line between high and low functioning is not presence or lack of speech, but communication. Some people say low functioners express no communication while high functioners try to communicate but are no good at it. The simple fact is that ALL Autistics attempt to communicate, it's just that their attempts are deemed unacceptable and not appropriate, so what they try to communicate in their atypical manner is ignored until they do it 'properly'. And then they wonder where all the 'unprovoked', 'unreasonable' or 'unexplainable' temper tantrums come from.

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Thats exactly how autism plays it,s part with my son, one day to the next is so different and never the same.Today he has barely spoken, I still don,t know why, have,nt managed to fathom it yet.Others days he will "function ", to the NT model.I feel able to use the term spectrum for his Autism/behaviour because of the variations he displays.I have also found that over the course of time he is slowly moving in the "spectrum" and displaying more of the "classic" signs of autism , such as stimmimg, which he had never displayed before.One thing I must mention, all these terms and words used by parents/ proffessionals and autistics themselves..........sometimes they make me feel a little uncomfortable, "classic autism", "high/low functioning", "spectrum", I understand some disapprove of how these terms are used, I,ve used them here simply to try and explain (and I,m normally very bad at this) in simplish terms how my sons autism changes each day and also over longer periods of time. .....sorry I know I,ve strayed from the original thread topic.

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Hi Theresa,

 

It was quite ironic that you used the example of broken bones in your last post.

My youngest son has a lifelong condition 'brittle bone disorder', he can fracture his

arm just by rolling over. We have seen him in absolute agony when he has fractured

just literally stumbling over. It is very very heartbreaking indeed watching your child

suffer like that, there are also other factors with his condition. It is actually quite a rare

condition and there is no 'cure', yes of course we make him as comfortable as possible but, if we were offered him a cure tomorrow my answer would be YES PLEASE!

 

Brook

 

PS This is not intended as an attack on your post, I just felt the need to reply. ;)

Brook,

 

I am sorry to hear your son has such a painful condition and of course you are right to want to help him all you can. I didn't bring up the comparison to broken bones , natasha did . I don't think they compare.

 

Theresa

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Lucas respect :notworthy: we may not always see eye to eye on everything but as a learning mentor you are one B) dude :thumbs:

 

Carole

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As for the fact of autism being a spectrum or not I wish at least that when you start agressing me about my view you would feed me back with some book to read or link where I could find some informations. Beside I have met with some non verbal autistic children with severe autistic behaviour (not all children who are not verbale have severe autism) and really I cannot see how you can reconciliate the huge differences between various autistic children without implicating the existence of a spectrum but one particular girl with severe autism who is 18 and never talk cannot be on the same "level"(sorry I don't like this word but could not find another one) than a child who talk fluently even with some pragmatic difficulties even in a case when a autistic child stop communicating for sometimes it cannot be the same than a child who never manage to communicate fluently. I find as well that denying the existence of a spectrum deny our children to be properly assest and provided for their need and this is valid for non verbal children who are much more in need of support, this does not mean however that more communicative children are not in need of support and are not having difficulties coping it does mean that the provision have to be different and the approach as well.

Malika , I never said there was no spectrum someone else did. I just told lucas that my son varied on the spectrum day to day .

 

Even his psychologist acknowledged this.

 

While it may not be the same when a verbal child stops communicating as having a child who has never been able to, believe me when your normally verbal child is stressed to the point of not being able to talk it is quite upsetting.

 

Theresa

Edited by asereht

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Suffering from hypothyroidism I know far too well how the lack of thyroxin in my body did affect all of it including my brain. Now I am treated by taking thyroxin which I will have to take for the rest of my life and the balance is far from being perfect so if there were a cure avalaible to make my thyroid function again properly in order for me not to have to take medication every day and to be "normal" again frankly I woud go for it. ;)

 

My daughter suffer frome Grave disease where her thyroid produce too much thyroxin (with dangerous consequences) because attacked by her somehow confuse immune system now she is taking medication to destroy the overdose of thyroxin in her body eventually they hope that the thyroid will burn itself out and stop producing so much, to see that in december after 2 years on medication she will stop taking her tablets and we will see if her thyroid has stoped working so much. If not her thyroid will have to be removed, because she is so young and still growing using radioctive iodine is not the best option so if needed she wants to go for operation. After all that she probably will need to take thyroxin as her level may not be adequate. :unsure:

Now all what I have discribe so far no matter how invasive it is are just treatments but not acure the cure would be to stop the immune system attacking her thyroid who would then function again normaly and would be a much better option. It does not mean as well that even after all the stress an the effect on her character I would like to change my daughter. :wub:>:D<<'>

Malika,

 

All these comparisons. When I was 16 I had graves disease nothing worked on me and I had to have surgery to have most of my thyroid gland removed as a result it is now under - active and I take thyroxine and will for the rest of my life ,I am almost 41 and have been on this medication for the last 8yrs.

 

I just take my tablet everyday and get on with it even though I don't always feel 100% .

 

So you see I have been through what both you and your daughter have .I still wouldn't compare it to autism.

 

 

Natasha , I do not agree with your theory as I already said so lets agree to disagree.

 

Theresa

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Lucas respect  :notworthy:  we may not always see eye to eye on everything but as a learning mentor you are one  B)  dude  :thumbs:

 

Carole

Well said carole. I couldn't have put it better.. My son has been like Matthew was on a few occasions I hope he is feeling better now.

 

 

Theresa

Edited by asereht

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Thats exactly how autism plays it,s part with my son, one day to the next is so different and never the same.Today he has barely spoken, I still don,t know why, have,nt managed to fathom it yet.Others days he will "function ", to the NT model.I feel able to use the term spectrum for his Autism/behaviour because of the variations he displays.I have also found that over the course of time he is slowly moving in the "spectrum" and displaying more of the "classic" signs of autism , such as stimmimg, which he had never displayed before.One thing I must mention, all these terms and words used by parents/ proffessionals and autistics themselves..........sometimes they make me feel a little uncomfortable, "classic autism", "high/low functioning", "spectrum", I understand some disapprove of how these terms are used, I,ve used them here simply to try and explain (and I,m normally very bad at this) in simplish terms how my sons autism changes each day and also over longer periods of time. .....

Suze , it's the same for me with my son thanks for explaining it so well. I am hopeless :lol:

 

Theresa

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I never thought that seeing autism as a spectrum was something scientificaly established and always understood it as a serie of convenient label to help parents and professionnals differentiate the various expression of autism.(it is as well what I have been told by the team which DX my son)

Autism is a communication disorder based on the presence of what specialist call the triad of impairement that we have already discuss without this there is no DX of autism.

The reference to an IQ level is very much an american and education factor Which I found very ambiguous as I said in another post how really do you assest the IQ of a child who is not able to communicate I know that some speciaslist have set up test for that purpose but they are mainly unrialable as are most of IQ test anyway.

 

The fact that autistic children have various functionning level different from an hour to another or from a day to another will not change his label rightly or wrongly that is the danger of being assesset by NT professionals and I understand you frustration on this one Lucas. Let say that may be assesment should be consider when children are at their best. Not to forget that NT people can have various level of functionning from a day to another or an hour to another just like autistic people it may be that it does not have as much impact but sometimes it really has and the result can be a road accident or a wrong decision or an unexpected outburst.

 

I disagree that the fact of children living in an household where English is not spoken well or another language is spoken is a major factor for language delay except if there is an underlying condition already creating the condition.

My daughter for example never spoke English until she was 3 and going to nursery

as we use to speak French at home and had very few English speaking friends, instead my son lived without his father at home and I had then most of my friend speaking English as well as me (not perfectly I know) and his sister however my son has communication problems and not my daughter.

Any child like my son who goes to school for around a year even if never confronted to the language before usualy catch up I remember a little boy (Japanese) who started school last year and could not speak anyhting except Japanese has now nearly catch up with his peer even if the mother speak to him only in her language.

 

Lucas I do not know your background but may be you should ask for a new DX as the one you had in childhood is obviously wrong or out of date. May be you are not interested in such label which does not mean they should be abolished altoghether . I have recently suggested that specialist should reasseste autistic children every 2 years and keep a record of their finding mainly because progress are made and Dx are outdated but he answer was that it would not be practical.

 

The communication difficulties in non verbale children can be overcome by sign language or picture but it is not always the case.

My son difficulty in speaking was not learning single word or short sentences (2 words) but to be able to form a more complexe sentences he made progress with speech therapy but during the last 4 month he has nearly eliminated all the oddity in his language, however his expression skills remain limited mainly due (i think) by a lack of imagination when he has to find by himself something to say.

It is true that all autistic try to communicate I would not necessarly say that it is not acceptable but mainly unanderstood so refused as being annoying or boring.

 

The fact is that we need our children to be assest when we feel there is something which is not right and labels help us understand in which direction we should look for help and understanding.

 

All the best.

 

Malika.

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Yes, but this is an increasingly common mistake made among even among those supposed to be experts: there are many labels for things used to explain complicated things about Autism, which is what the spectrum model was in the first place, the problem is that these become assumed ideas of FACT about Autism.

 

It was Lorna Wing if I remember right that first invented the concept of the Autistic spectrum as a tool for explaining to people how Autistic people vary, but it was never meant to be taken literally as an actual feature of Autism itself. Just as it is often expressed that Autism become apparent often in the first three years of life, this is then assume to mean that a child can be normal to begin with and then become Autistic. It was all a run away train.

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Hi Natasha.

 

�To cling to a purely genetic explanation of autism is a desperate attempt to maintain the illusion that one lives in a comfortable and rational world where new chemicals and technologies always mean progress, experts are always objective and thorough, corporations are honest and authorities can be trusted. That human actions, rather that genetics, might be responsible for compromising the health of a significant propertion of a whole generation is so painful as to be, for many unthinkable.�

 

Thanks for that one I agree completely.

 

Malika.

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Hi Theresa, ;)

 

I do get on with my life I suppose as much as everybody else but still would not mind a cure. :rolleyes:

The fact that autism is a much more difficult condition with much more implications should make us look at treatment and cure in a positive light not a negative one, and this does not mean that I do not love my son the way he is, it does mean that if I could find a way to make life easier for him I would, that what usualy mothers do for all their children and I would like to do for my daughter as well.

One day I will die and if my son would be suffisciently equiped to deal with his life I would feel much reassured as I know very well how the society can be intolerant. :wacko:

 

Do you know that a consequence of hypothyroidism during prgnancy could be autism. By the way I am 49. :P

 

All the best. >:D<<'>

 

Malika.

 

P.S just remember that I forgot my tablets today.....................

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�To cling to a purely genetic explanation of autism is a desperate attempt to maintain the illusion that one lives in a comfortable and rational world where new chemicals and technologies always mean progress, experts are always objective and thorough, corporations are honest and authorities can be trusted. That human actions, rather that genetics, might be responsible for compromising the health of a significant propertion of a whole generation is so painful as to be, for many unthinkable.�

 

I don't think this person has ever spoken to or listened to a critic, let alone an Autistic one. If you agree with this quote Malika, do you think I'm clinging on to an illusion of a comfortable and rational world?

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Beside the quote I think mean that even chimical have an influence on genes developpement and autism is not only due to a genetic factor don't you agree with that?

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Theresa I put this link before in this link

 

http://www.alspac.bris.ac.uk/topics/mrc_proposal.shtml

 

You have this

Most claims of associations of autism with in utero exposures are based on case reports, implicating, for example, maternal use of valproic acid9 maternal hypothyroidism, maternal alcohol ingestion, and congenital cytomegalovirus infection.6 A record linkage study showed an association with maternal smoking in pregnancy.10

 

Malika.

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Theresa I put this link before in this link

 

http://www.alspac.bris.ac.uk/topics/mrc_proposal.shtml

 

You have this

Most claims of associations of autism with in utero exposures are based on case reports, implicating, for example, maternal use of valproic acid9 maternal hypothyroidism, maternal alcohol ingestion, and congenital cytomegalovirus infection.6 A record linkage study showed an association with maternal smoking in pregnancy.10

 

Malika.

Hi Malika ,

 

I was monitored all through my pregnancy and I was fine( i went underactive when my son was 6) also I didn't smoke when pregnant with my son but did on my two older kids both NT.

 

You said....

 

 

"One day I will die and if my son would be suffisciently equiped to deal with his life I would feel much reassured as I know very well how the society can be intolerant"

 

I'm with you on that one. :tearful:

 

We are all in the same boat really and have a lot in common , you and me especially with the thyroid problems,we just have different opinions on some aspects of autism, which we are both entitled to have .

 

Good night and take care,

 

Theresa. :)

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Hi theresa. :)

 

May be one day we will have more answers in the mean time it is nice to exange ideas even if we disagree may be to learn the tolerance our chidren are so much in need of.

My idea of thyroid pb it is that it has something to do with the immune system (most of the time) and feel that the immune system may play a part with the onset of autism.

 

You are right we are all in the same boat just hope it is not the "Titanic" :lol::lol:

 

Take care. >:D<<'> >:D<<'> >:D<<'>

 

Malika.

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Malika,

 

(meant to include this in previous post, ops) are you familiar of research work by Dr Aristo Vodjani

.... I better quote on his this: "Dr. Vojdani obtained his Ph.D. in the field of microbiology and clinical immunology with postdoctoral studies in tumor immunology. He is Director of Immunosciences Lab., Inc. in Beverly Hills, CA; Assistant Research Professor of Neurobiology, in the Department of Neurobiology at David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA; member of editorial board of three scientific journals; and published more than 90 articles in scientific journals. His research interest currently is focused on neuroimmunology of autism and multiple sclerosis"....

 

 

 

 

Lucas,

I might be wrong on this one but I think both Temple Grandin and Theresa Binstock (both in Dr Rimland's 'camp', incidentally) are Autistics.

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Sorry it?s going back a bit on the thread I know but how do we define "cure autism"?

 

Leaving aside autism for a moment, how do we even define "cure"? According to my dictionary it comes from the word cura, which means care, and curare, which means take care of. But then it gives one definition "restore to health" and another "eliminate (an evil). So the term �cure autism� can be interpreted from entirely different angles. I think a lot depends on the individual?s intention behind the use of the term. My understanding of the intention of those of us participating in this thread is that we are looking to �restore (our child) to health.� (Whatever the health status was before MMR, vaccination in general, or without fluoride, or whatever). Or just make everyday life less stressful by improving health. So for me I am OK that the vocabulary used may be �treatment� or �cure� or even �cure for autism.� This to me is a �chat� amongst individuals interested in the topic of possible environmental triggers.

 

Having said that, I prefer not to use the term �cure� at all. But if I was to use the term with the �eliminate (an evil)� interpretation it would be with the intention that I believe that the fluoride that was poisoning my son to be something that was better �eliminated� from the whole family's environment. The "evil" (for my family) was and is fluoride, not autism. In his case the health problems and behaviours were a consequence, not a cause to be eliminated. I can only speak personally here, but autistic spectrum was the term adopted to describe his set of behaviours, most of which we now know (for him) had physical, and environmental triggers. So it may or may not be right that an �autistic spectrum� does not exist, but my son?s anxieties and behaviours did exist, with, without, or whatever the label.

 

What his (and our) health might be like now if not subjected for so long to adverse environmental influences, (whether it be chemical, including fluoride, electromagnetic, dietary or whatever) we will probably never know.

 

We have no wish to alter genetics, or personality, but, as a natural consequence of removing certain avoidable environmental stressors, our son does not need to display the same stress behaviours such as food phobia, water phobia, light sensitivity, anxieties etc. His speech is improving, he is more confident. He can now make choices he couldn't before because of physical problems and anxiety. Our son is the same child. :wub: We are the same family.

 

Other members of the family have different improvements to health, completely unrelated to autism. So we certainly haven?t found and aren?t looking for a �cure for autism.� But we are looking to �restore (him and us) to health.� That is our decision as parents, and we are not looking for absolution or reassurance. We are not the enemy, but certain aspects of the environment are.

 

The environmental factors that influence my son may also be influencing someone else?s health problems, or have nothing whatsoever to do with anybody or anything. Some of us might choose to try removing possible environmental factors in some of our children?s problems, (at the same time as getting on with caring), in order to try and reduce their anxiety, improve health or simply to move forward. By discussing potential environmental triggers via this thread, I hope to learn more about it so that my son has fewer difficulties, and more choices.

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Hi Sue-

 

I think the general feeling is that 'cure' implies there's something 'wrong' - whichever dictionary definition you choose...

Fully accepting that the external factors may have an impact on behaviour, exacerbating or exaggerating behaviours that the non-autistic population generally view negatively, the underlying condition of autism is part of the autistic person, not something 'other' that could (or should) be cured.

The concept of restoring someone to health implies two things: Firstly that there is a 'before' state to restore them to (which is not actually the case with autism: It's generally accepted that autism is a life-long condition, and any 'improvement' occurs not because the implications of autism recede in any way but because the person with autism learns strategies to control/conceal those implications), and secondly that the 'unrestored' autistic is somehow flawed or devalued as a human being.

Don't know whether that's helpful, but I hope it does explain a little about why words like 'cure' can cause offense...

One other thing I'd add is that this POV (at least for me personally) should NOT imply that helping someone to develop strategies to minimise the implications of autism is necessarily a bad thing - you just have to be careful to ensure that a boundary exists between helping someone to achieve the things that they want or are helpful to THEM, rather than trying to 'normalise' them for your own or societies benefit.

 

Now, having said all that as cautiously as I can, i'll put money down to say that somewhere along the line I'll have unintentionally offended someone! Whatever it might be/whoever it might be- I didn't mean to do it!! Okay?

 

There was a long thread on this a while ago... Here's a link:

 

http://www.asd-forum.org.uk/forum/index.ph...t=0entry11259

 

L&P

BD :D

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Hi Baddad and all. :)

 

I agree with you in principle the only thing I disagree with is that when we keep a scientific perspective we cannot make static statement as, what is vallid today may not be valid tomorrow, just to consider the conditions which were uncurable untreatable unpreventable 100 of years ago an what is happening today, science now is baffled and babbling about autism how can we know what is the outcome in 100 of years time for our grand children and great grand children. :D

 

As far as my son autism is concern it is not a problem to me but to him because of the society we live in, not socialising if he copes with it (and this worries me )I don't see most of the time why it should be a pb they are the people who have the least to deal with him which see it as something wrong. :huh:

Beside less pressure I put on him to conform (except for few essential rules) most progress he seems to make and we all much better living to this different standard, B) but then I become a bad mother for not trying hard enough, in any case I am not looking for any miracle to happen just take one day at the time, :rolleyes: and if it was not for the fightings with school and DRs I would feel content with what I have, :thumbs: he is amazing and I just hate seing him hurt or devalue, by people who never truly approach him without prejudice because of their narrow mindness. I think that I am very lucky to have a different experience and a different view on life thanks to the way he is. ;):P:lol::wub:

 

I am sure you all understand, my avatar is not only about my love for cats but about my infinite motherly love. :wub::wub::wub:>:D<<'> >:D<<'> >:D<<'>

 

Take care all.

 

Malika.

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Malika, scratch the word 'problem' from that statement and it would be closer to what I believe. But if I ever said that Autism was soley genetic in it's causal origins then I would be merely speculating and not taking advantage of what I know about Autism through reading, self-exploration and the comparison of others with myself.

 

I've criticised virtually ever definition of Autism I have ever come across with the exact same line: They do everything but tell you what Autism is. If Autism is a neurological disorder, a triad of impairments in communication, behaviour and learning, then that does not tell you what Autism is anymore than saying that a blind person also has problems with communication, behaviour and learning. It's like saying blind people walk cautiously and are often unable to react appropriately to changes in the enviroment, but not telling you the reason why this is is because they can't see.

 

Definitions of Autism can also be misleading and damaging because they are almost always trying to pretend they are the gospel of expertise and know what they are talking about, there is no admission of ignorance. I have not yet ever found a shred of evidence proving scientifically that Autism does cause impairments in communication, behaviour and learning. One can look at a very disabled child and easily come to the conclusion that the diagnosis they are given is what is causing the problems, but this is not scientific evidence but ancedotal value-laden pre-judgements.

 

Brittle bone disease has been mentioned recently. If a person with brittle bone disease was ran over by a dangerous driver and then sued the for the cost of their care because of the severe injuries caused by being hit, would anyone accept the arguement of the driver that they are not to blame for the extent of the injuries because the victim had brittle bone disease? Why should it cost him more money because the victim was disabled? If disabled people wanted to be treated equally, then shouldn't the driver pay the same as he would if he had hit a non-disabled person?

 

I think a moral person would be appalled by these excuses, brittle bone disease caused the injuries to be greater but they did not cause them to begin with, but it seems to be only in those kinds of cases where the victim of another person's ignorance is granted fair treatment because society is enlightened enough to apply 'equal doesn't mean same, so same treatment doesn't mean equal treatment' wisely. In the cases of Autistics being victims of other peoples' ignorance, the Autistic is always to blame and Autism is the cause of strife.

 

This happens because no one yet knows what Autism is. Autistics do, but only sort of. If you are alive, you know you are alive, but you still don't know what life is exactly. Yet you still react to life all around you and in that sense you do instinctively know something about life.

 

The cause of Autism will remain as elusive as the cause of life. I know this because I used to have these dreams, I won't call them out of body experiences because I don't believe in them, where I visited 'The Wisest Autistic in the Universe' on his mountain(wise people have to live on mountains, no matter how much it goes against common sense). It turns out there are Autistics of all races everywhere, this guy was about a foot and a half tall, I couldn't see him because he was dressed in a very comfy looking hooded robe but he sounded a bit like Cousin It from the Addams Family. I was allowed to ask one questions and that was: What is the cause of Autism? The guy spoke and the translator told me "Life". I was well ###### puzzled by this so I asked him how this was, but I only got the one question from the Wisest Autistic in the Universe(he got back to doing the indescribable 'Greatest stim in the Universe' which can only be done if your knees bend both ways). The translator clarified for me though: "Well you wouldn't be Autistic if you were dead now, would you?"

 

So the cause of Autism is life. That simple.

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Guest hallyscomet

Hi Lucas

 

I really want to hear what you think, as here is my real frustration. When my son was first diagnosed at four they said Autism, but since then there have been so many labels on the Spectrum he has been given - it is sooo frustrating for parents.

 

Lucas I hear and appreciate everything you say I just want you to look at the amount of medication my son has to take and what happens to him if he doesn't take it. (I copied a post from medication - as I am desperate for some incite.) Have read if you will, please Lucas, what do you think my childs conditions is, he is 18 and never been given a specific label)

 

Heres the post (look at the amount of medication to keep him functioning as a normal person. ) :pray: I want your opinion please Lucas..

======

 

Hi,

 

Has anyone come up with a good plan that works. My son is taking concerta but it is sending me broke, I am looking for solutions that work for Ritalin heres the problem:

 

I have had to put my son on Concerta his AS is so severe he has to take 72MG PER DAY. Only Problem is I pay $195. AUST DOLLARS per month its so expensive, this is slow release and lasts up to 12 hours. I noticed him socialising a lot better on this. As without his medication he is like a loud happy drunk, out of control, running around the house, yelling out.

 

Ritalin has been just put on PBS and now on $4. AUST dollars per script. Only problem with this is that he needs to take 8 tablets a day and then that means every 2 1/2 hours. I bought him a watch with two alarms, but he would hear the alarm, get diverted and forget to take his tablet so it is an ongoing reminder and grind.

 

He has been taking Concerta for 9 months at the end of the day things are more peaceful, but Concerta is sending me broke. I truly cannot see any benefits to his day to day output or see any benefit - except for the peace.

 

If I could come up with a good plan that will help him remember his tablet, we could be saving sooooo much money each month.

 

PLEASE ANY ONE WITH A CHILD AS SEVERE AS MINE, I NEED SUCCESS STORIES AND HELPFUL TIPS PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSEEE!!!!

 

Hailey

 

+++++++++++

 

my son is severe, but severe what??? Autism, ADD both this is the confusion a lot of parents face. :sick: what is the TRUE diagnosis for my son. :tearful:

 

Hopeful

Hailey :notworthy:

 

Heres a bit more plus a response from Lill me.

 

+++++++

 

I was told by a pharmacist that Ritalin is a time reacting drug, for example if 1 tablet lasts 2 hours 2 would last 4 hours. I am unsure how correct this is but may be worth looking into, as if thats the case then a dose could be given every 4/5 hours. I know when my son was becoming problematic at school by 2.30pm after taking a 10mg dosage at 12 midday it was increased to 15mg and he was fine until 4.30pm.

 

This post has been edited by lil_me on Yesterday at 10:53 pm

 

hallyscomet Posted: Today at 5:39 am

 

 

Contributor

 

 

Group: Members

Posts: 73

Member No.: 1,290

Joined: 23-October 05

 

 

 

Thats the problem Lill Me, my son is so severe, it takes two tablets to last only 2 1/2 hours, on a scale of one out of ten for the ADD part of it my son is an 11, some kid last with one or two tablets a day, but they would be a 4 on the scale of 1 to 10 thats what my sons specialists have advised me, to understand the quantity that he needs to take.

 

 

QUOTE

like a loud happy drunk, out of control, running around the house, yelling out.

 

 

If he goes beyond 3 hours, this is how he behaves, then it takes 40 minutes for the tablet to kick in and start working again.

Cheers,

Hailey

 

 

======================================

 

One totally confused Hailey :tearful: this is my problem if I could say my son is XYZ then I would have a hope of knowing what he is capable of doing - so my expectations are not too high. I would know how to help and advise him and people that come in contact with him- educational people, so they could help and not hinder him, to make matters worse. He feels most of the time no one understands him. Yet I have ran around in circles - feeling exhausted with no answers but back where I started. Confused. How can I help him, what am I doing wrong....

 

Regards

Hailey :pray::pray:

Edited by hallyscomet

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Lucas,

 

With what you have said about the Wisest Autistic in the Universe dream, and the mention about there being no biological explanation for savant skills from one of your earlier posts, (sorry lost the exact quote) I would be interested in your views on the theory that mind operates not only through the brain but also independently from it? Mind separately and as part of a universal field in addition to working through individual biology?

 

The experience you talk of sounds similar to deep meditation. It was so specific, could what you describe be "insight" or a "window" of your individual mind into a field of mind, (of which dream may be a part). The minds of savants and child prodigies who say compose music from a very early age may connect to it through such a window. It may be available to all, but not everyone is available. Perhaps it needs certain sensitivities, or a particular set of circumstances.

 

Thank you for sharing your experience.

 

"So the cause of Autism is life. That simple."

 

From your dream experience I think I finally understand what you have been saying.

 

You've given me a lot to think about. B)

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Hallyscomet, how long has your son been taking such a huge amount of meds? I'm interested because there is a slight chance the meds themselves may be the cause of the problem. Just to explain: If I took medication for an ailment but one or more of the side-effects of the medication produced symptoms similiar to the ailment that was treated, it could give the illusion that the ailment has not gone away.

 

I know this can happen because I was on Roacutane ance treatment in my teens and one of the side-effects(apart from suicidal depression) was that I perspired more, thus producing more spots and boils. What the drug does is cause the glands that produce sweat to shrink in size, but it can sometimes make them more actice aswell. It wasn't until coming off the stuff that my skin began to clear up and I'm now left with a lot of very ugly looking scars covering my back and chest, they're not the 'cool' kind of scars either but disfiguring ones. The NHS offered treatment for them but I turned it down after a few sessions of having injections to reduce them became too painful.

 

What may be happening with your son's meds is that he is now dependent on them just to stay composed, but the same factors which caused the original problems that made them neccessary could now be gone as he is older. If he doesn't have time to be accustomed to not being under their influence, he of course will always need them.

 

I don't believe the sections of the media that say ADHD or ADD don't exist, but they do raise interesting questions and there is a ethical problem with diagnosing medication for something when you don't know what causes it. Conventional medicine prescribes treatments that deal with symptoms rather than causes for a reason: it is an admission of what people do not yet know. If a person has an illness, a doctor will medicate to reduce the symptoms that affect the person's comfort and functioning, but leave actually fixing the problem to the body itself, which is wise.

 

But they don't have the same reasoning for ADHD because it doesn't just go away, the body doesn't just fix it, so it is unethical to purely medicate the symptoms away because the symptoms are often the only clue to a specific cause if a case is exceptional.

 

If your son is allergic to something, has an intolerence, is electro-sensitive(electro-sensitivity is a recognised condition in many European countries and is gradually being accepted elsewhere and could get some study done into it at last), or has an emotional problem with an inter-personal cause, you won't know about it because the clues are being buried.

 

Bare in mind that med companies and their friends in government in any country with no socialised medicine, it is in their interests that medication is in demand and inevitably if there is every any drug hailed as an effective treatment for a poorly-understood condition, the rate of diagnosis for that condition conveniently shoots up.

 

Many parents put their children on special diets and their attention skills improve so dramatically that the parents then assume their kids maybe didn't have ADHD, but the truth is that it's impossible to tell either way.

 

Sue,

 

As I said, I don't believe in out of body experience, but I don't believe the conventional assumption(and it is an assumption) about how the brain works either. The typical model is one that says the brain is all about connections and connectivity. I'm not so sure about it though. The most clear evidence is that as people develop and learn, the brain makes more connections. It's essentially a computer, a giant calculator, a computer though performs functions with it's software limited by the hardware. The brain has the advantage of being able to change it's hardware itself when challenged with something.

 

But I don't think brains are computers, I think going down this route of "So, when will we have computers as powerful as human brains? Or failing that, some kind of animal?", has been very misleading in our understanding. A brain is not a trillion times more powerful than a computer because a brain is in fact not at all anything like a computer. A brain is actually more like a planet: yes a planet, a living one with life growing on it, it IS that complex. No one has yet called the Earth a computer as a serious model for understanding the Earth, but some do argue that the Earth itself may not only simply be alive, but be a super-conscious being working through everything attached to it.

 

There are as many as 200 lightening storms on Earth at all times, we don't know how lightening is even caused, we just have theories. We also don't know what becomes of earthed electricity when it reaches the Earth it always tries to find the path of least resistence to. Potatoes and lemons produce enough bio-electricity to power small watches. Lots of things happen on Earth and we don't know why, like brains.

 

We do know that when a thought happens an electrical signal is sent down one of those many neuroconnectors which passes it on to a few others who pass it on to countless others and we assume this is working like the circuitry of a computer. But what produces this electricity? We know magnets do aswell as certain kinds of chemical reaction, but we know more about how electricity also produces magnetism than we do about how electricity can produce chemical reactions. It's my belief that a thought is not in fact an electrical pulse sent through the brain circuitry, but the actual field of energy produced by the brain that produces the electricity in the brain which in turn powers this field.

 

The brain is kind of a transmitter communicating with something else in another place, it produces many different wavelengths, alpha waves being one of them; they are the ones that make us sleepy, relaxed or lethargic. So the brain is not a digital computer but an analogue radio/planet.

 

If connections being made in the brain allowed us to learn, then how the hell does a bunch of cells know what connection they are supposed to be branching out to? I could try to learn another language and end up instead having an epithany that nappies are in fact a technological step forward superior to flushing toilets(Romans gave us those almost two thousand years ago now! Nappies are more modern)

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Hi Lucas. :)

 

Thank you for sharing you thoughts and dream. I know I have been pushy but what I wanted to hear was not what you think an Nt would give some consideration to or your grievance even if justified, it was your truth from the heart as when people speak from the heart it will be recognised and accepted ( by the one who really want to understand ) so the answer you just give me is truth from the one who know and experience autism, so I will accepted as such wether science can enter into that does not really mater,what does mater is how close I can get to understand you, my son and all of those who are struggling to make sens to the label stamped on them.

 

Because you mention mountains I remembered about my mountains. B)

 

During my childhood I use to live in the Vosges they are montains in East of France, close to the German border. From very young age around 6 I would walk with my brother or friends and often alone everywhere on those mountains sometimes going few miles away from home :) usualy when I say this to people they always tell me: Weren't you scared? well no I was not scared nobody had ever told me that I should.

Nobody had ever taught me to be scared except from the wolf and the Yetie (snow monster) but they had told me it was not in our montain but on the other side, so no I was not scared, because my Mum never taught me "fear". :wub:

 

When I went to study in a residential college in the countryside near Paris I did what I always use to do, walk everywhere and still did not learn to be scared :rolleyes: when I lived in Paris suburbs and in Paris I had few bad experiences but still was not scared seeing it like a game, and even more when I lived in Naples for 5 years, mugging drug Camorra (Mafia) fighting gangs, but slowly it was getting to me I started to learn about being scared but I did not want to :shame: , so I left, then I came in this country and on TV everyday I am being told to be scared but I don't want to, :shame: because the little girl inside me is telling me Why should I ?? :o

Beside in any frightening experience I had, I got away with it because I did not panic .

 

What my point is you do not have to be what society tells you, you should be;

The heart inside you knows better than all the people outside you, but if you have learned to be scared it will be more difficut :( than if you never did, that's why we should teach our children to be cautious yes but not to be scared, scared of life, society, failure, water, storms, life can be scary for them even more than for us but if we stand up :ninja: strong against all odd they will feel secure and won't learn fear. :thumbs:

I am not too sure if this can make sens for anyone but I cannot express it better than this.

When I was on my own for 5 years my friends kept wondering how living on the ground floor with the garden door hardly ever locked I was never scared but little by little I felt they were infiltrating fear inside me and ask them to stop when ever they had such talk, my daughter use to be frightened very often but I can see now that she is strong and becoming so independant. I would never have thought that 2 years back but kept reassuring her and slowly pushing her a bit further. What I mean by this is that the people around you, are the one who can create anxiety inside you.

 

It is easy to verify go to somebody house and say "listen I have heard a noise outside what is it? " Look frightened :wacko: and repeat that few times you will see everybody around you getting anxious to the point they may not even be able to sleep at night.

What I mean is I have not say to my son that he has a DX I never tell him he cannot understand just try explaining to him and say this is a bit difficult to understand (never say because of your Dx) but you are still young and don't worry about it ;) when you are bigger I'll explain it again for you. I always tell him that he is clever and handsome and we all love him very much and I fight to protect him as I know that one day this feeling of security inside him will prevail I don't want him to be scared and to feel bad about himself >:D<<'> as this would certainly worry him more than his condition.

 

I know that autistic children may have difficulties about understanding what is happening around them but it is like stammering if we do not make too much fuss about it :whistle: they won't experience so much anxiety about it, as you know well Lucas it is the people around them which make them feel odd not the condition itself.

 

Thanks again for sharing your view and may be one day we could even agree to agree :lol::lol::lol:

 

Take care and don't be scared (that is what I always say to my daughter).

 

Malika.

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Lucas,

 

Perhaps the brain is both a digital computer and an analogue radio/planet, and much more besides. We can send probes to planets that can communicate over millions of miles of space, and we receive the message a long time after it is sent. If a machine can transmit and receive information over space and time, then the human mind, so much more complex, is capable of a lot more.

 

At the moment I am studying a theory that mind as a whole is outside of space and time, but that the body (including the brain) is a bit like a filter for (individual) mind experience within this space and time. If the filter is disorientated, or polluted, (perhaps due to an environmental problem, but certainly not limited to chemicals, radiation etc but environment as a whole) perhaps this can block or positively/negatively change (individual) mind experience, and either prevent or encourage access to, or promote a limited window to (as in savant skills) mind as a whole. If I?m distressed or bouncing around on caffeine I cannot think clearly, or sleep and would have difficulty trying to meditate for example. So does my environment affect both my individual mind and my access to mind as a whole? As we are living receivers and transmitters then perhaps we can be influenced by more or different environmental stressors than non-living receivers and transmitters, simply because we are more complex.

 

You know sometimes people decide to �sleep on a problem� and they wake up with the answer, their intention is to find the answer during sleep. Meditation is more of a direct route whilst awake. I can ask specific questions during meditation, but the link to the answer may be intention. If my intention is to find an answer on something specific during sleep or meditation, I am less likely to randomly get a new design for nappies.

 

The question I may ask I think depends in part on the space and time my bodymind currently operates in, so I am more likely to look for answers relevant to my current environment, where I am now, rather than some space, time and environment way in the future. But Da Vinci?s drawings/inventions for example?. Aren?t some people?s ideas said to have been way ahead of their time? (Perhaps more accurately space/time?)

 

I believe we have many different fields and systems operating through the human body. Yes there is the field produced by the very action of the heart beating, the body moving, the brain working etc, all of which can influence thought, but I?m not sure about it influencing or generating individual mind completely. There is also another field, sometimes called the L field or Life field. I read about it first in Harold Saxton Burr?s book Blueprint for Immortality. His work involved measuring the electrodynamic fields of all sorts of things from trees, seeds to humans, with a voltmeter. He found that changes in the voltage readings preceded physical changes. There are changes in voltage that predict the next stage of a woman?s menstrual cycle for example, (which could be commercially developed as a means of fertility prediction or birth control). Voltage variation can also indicate which axis an undeveloped frog?s nervous system will grow along, that type of thing.

 

So this particular field implies purpose, meaning, and doesn?t appear to be a by-product of something else. (I?m also thinking of species that can regrow limbs and tails if they get cut off, what starts the regeneration off?). I?m not sure if you would call this field a �blueprint� (but it might explain cell division and direction or function and purpose of cells of the developing human embryo for example, or regeneration of limbs in some species) or if it is part of mind as a whole influencing or directing matter (the physical body) to allow individual mind to operate in current space and time. (Mind experiencing itself? :hypno: ) Perhaps it?s both together, or two separate fields that can be measured in the same way. The issue raises questions though. Because if it is not random, if a field can be shown to generate �blueprint� or design features, which in some species allows regeneration in line with the original �plans� or if a field in any way directs purpose and function, (for which structure follows) then does logic suggest that there is a designer/director? :hypno:

 

On that note, I think I need a lie down!!

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Hi Sue and Lucas :)

 

Well probably every matiere in the world is transmitter or receiver mainly of radiation electricity and chimical our body is no exeption but in a much more complexe way, every cell in our body is a transmitter receiver and many of them have a memory on their own, like T and B cells who play an active part in the immune system, some cells like B cells, keep creating new cells by division until they produce IgG when then they remain in the body to be use as a memory for any pathogene we have already met in order to recognise it and protect us (this is the kind of cell memory giving the possibility of protection through vaccine which would be impossible without it)

 

There are few researches at the moment respective to the comparison between the human brain and a computer.

 

Those two paper are worth reading as they are short and fairly simple.

 

http://www.merkle.com/humanMemory.html

 

http://www.merkle.com/brainLimits.html

 

and for anybody who has an interest in the immune system (like me) I really like this one:

 

http://uhaweb.hartford.edu/BUGL/immune.htm

 

Between the greatest infinit of the cosmos to the smallest infinite of cells and atoms we cannot ever get bored B) the only limit to this is our brain capacity to understand and remember. :(

 

Malika. ;)

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Between the greatest infinit of the cosmos to the smallest infinite of cells and atoms we cannot ever get bored  the only limit to this is our brain capacity to understand and remember.

 

Well that's what Autistics are for; to know and remember everything they take in.

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Lucas,

I have been told that my 7 year old son has autistic features but not enought to diagnose "classic autism" and they have asked for extra reports and we go back on thursday.I have had it explained as being on "the spectrum".After reading these posts I feel unsure now as to what that means...e.g If they don't diagnose "classic autism" does that mean he isn't autistic???? Would appreciate your opinion please..

:)

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