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Malika

Autism the reasons: Genetic MMR/ mercury

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Malika

 

Thanks so much for the quotes and research you have done.This is very interesting and is exactly what happened to my daughter within seven days of having her mmr booster at four she was showing many signs of autism.We were told it was the measels part of the vaccination that had gone into her brain produced encephalitus which had then brought on the autism.Hense she then got a diagnosis of autistic encephalitus.Her symptoms got worse and worse over three months.The next three months she got better and better and at the end of month six she was practically back to her normal self.I have to say gr ormand street were amazed by this because they thought she would not recover.I knoe wmany people with encephalitus don't recover.So am quite puzzled but very relieved that she got better.

 

This happened five years ago now but about two years ago I suspected my father to have aspergers.So was she genetically at risk and why didn't it happen on the first vaccination????

 

Incidentally I have a three year old non vaccinated son who is nt.Nothing wrong whatsoever.Too scared to have any more though because not sure if I am at risk.

 

This thread is very interesting and gives me a lot to think about!!!!

Edited by ceecee

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Not sure how relevant it is but here goes. :unsure: In complementary therapy I have been taught, �structure follows function.� A bit like having a bodybuilder having to work a weak muscle (i.e. make it function) and slowly the structure would be built to match the function required of it, provided it has the raw materials (such as protein) to do it.

 

But a stressed infant/child may be too busy reacting to their individual stressors. As �flight or fight� takes priority over digestion, elimination, perhaps certain brain functions will also have less priority than others. The ability to be say aggressive or hyperactive has more important �flight or fight� survival value than language, communication or planning. So perhaps that has something to do with certain areas of the brain either not developing or functioning typically, or regressing, or why some areas become hyper vigilant. Immediate survival comes first, but what skills each of us develop to survive will be different, and how we recover from any major stress may well depend on the health of the adrenal glands.

 

There is potential stress from the womb, birth complications etc. But then there is vaccinations, chemicals in our food, our toiletries, our household products and food that looks, tastes and smells like �real� food but is really junk, etc . These sneak past our normal senses. We can sometimes no longer trust our senses to protect us. (Hyper vigilance?) Our stressed adrenal glands and our bodies know something our minds don?t maybe? Add to that our stressful lives generally, our adrenal glands just haven?t had time to adapt to the massive changes to society in the last 100 years.

 

Because of a completely different set of stresses, maybe some mental functioning isn?t seen as having immediate survival value, or the body isn?t given the raw materials, so the structure doesn?t follow. (Like the person I know who didn?t develop frontal lobes).

 

I don?t know a lot about Alzheimer?s I have to say, although my grandmother had it. Just a thought though, in Alzheimer?s maybe it?s the reverse problem, as development has already taken place. Stress of any description, plus lack of the raw materials to repair and nourish the body, such as insufficient protein, lack of healthy fats etc, whatever, may make it more difficult for someone to function typically. And a bit like the bodybuilder not working his muscles for weeks, maybe we use it or eventually lose it. Perhaps in some cases the body tries to protect the brain from chemical stress etc, by reducing blood flow. Perhaps slowly but surely, inability for the brain to function typically for whatever reason eventually causes deterioration in structure.

 

I?ve been working on the �bodymind� principle. Sometimes my son?s body knows something his mind (and mine) doesn?t. For example his food phobia at 4 meant that everything he ate had to be �perfect� unblemished, white or off white, unthreatened by colours, rituals about plates etc. He carefully inspected every morsel that went into his mouth. His body knew something his mind didn?t. His "bodymind" knew he was being poisoned via his mouth, so his mind went to great lengths to check everything he ate. What his mind didn?t know was that it wasn?t from his food, it was from his toothpaste. When we changed his toothpaste, he was no longer being poisoned through his mouth, so his mind no longer needed the phobic behaviour in order to try and survive. It was now �safe� to eat. We?ve done other things, but now his body and mind are more in synch, survival and �flight or fight� are protected, he can function more typically, and happily. He is developing physically, emotionally and mentally in a much more typical way. Structure is following function.

 

He had a stressful start to life, so for us its stress management, supporting the adrenal glands, and seeing what his body �knows.� I now think my son was reacting naturally in very unnatural conditions. His behavioural responses to stress were actually far more �neurotypical� than mine. For example I was subjected to the same chemical stresses, and I didn?t notice. I?m beginning to think I may be the one with the problem. :unsure::hypno:

 

Thanks all, this thread is really making me think. :thumbs:

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Hi Sue and all :)

 

In fact what ever the causes of autism and even if it was to be purely genetic because of mutation the Question would be why there are more mutation problem than ever before?? Mutation and very bad one occur with too much nuclear radiations, in an other hand radioactive material exist naturaly in our environment which could have caused previous mutation to occur but not as many and to such extend. :ph34r:

If we add to this all the preservatives and additives in our food and even when we buy fresh fruits or vegs there are so many pesticidees still there.

Genetically modified organism are not a solution as GO are interfering with all the plants around them and genetically modifies them the most dangerous is that after modification most of them are sterile what happen then especially in poor country if they cannot save a part of their crops to be planted the following year?? :(

 

As for our body things are not always that simple when my daughter had thyrotoxicosis she lost nearly 3 stones and all her muscles had gone like melted no bodybuilding whould have been able to repair such lost, the excess hormone in her body was burning her out, only the medication she is still taking stopped her, without talking of all the vomiting and diarreha anxiety attack 120 heart beat a mn non stop day and night for months and this just because of an hormone in excess. (being however an immune system pb as the IS attack the thyroid which respond by producing too much hormones) :wacko:

May be hormone imbalance during pregnancy( thyroxin adrenaline) could interfere with the feotal development and create autism.

When we talk about stress it is not only I think because of the speedy life style we have now but as well all the various chemical we eat and breathe which stress our body. :devil:

 

Alzheimer could be an attack on the brain cell by a confuse immune system like for MS but this is just speculation. But the problem I feel with too many vaccins at once is that it could in fact confuse an immune system which may be already fragile for other reason, genetic one for example. :hypno:

 

Thanks all for bringing so much to this debate.

 

Malika.

Yes there is a lot to think about and so much to explore about as body and the world we live in.

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Malika, maybe the radiation issue is closer to home........

 

Quote from an article on microwaved food:

 

"For example the weakening of cell membranes by microwaves is used in the field of gene altering technology. Because of the force involved, the cells are actually broken, thereby neutralizing the electrical potentials, the very life of the cells, between the outer and inner side of the cell membranes.

 

Impaired cells become easy prey for viruses, fungi and other microorganisms. The natural repair mechanisms are suppressed and cells are forced to adapt to a state of energy emergency - they switch from aerobic to anaerobic respiration. Instead of water and carbon dioxide, the cell poisons hydrogen peroxide and carbon monoxide are produced."

 

The same violent deformations that occur in our bodies, when we are directly exposed to radar or microwaves, also occur in the molecules of foods cooked in a microwave oven.

 

This radiation results in the destruction and deformation of food molecules. Microwaving also creates new compounds, called radiolytic compounds, which are unknown fusions not found in nature. Radiolytic compounds are created by molecular decomposition - decay - as a direct result of radiation.

 

Microwave oven manufacturers insist that microwaved and irradiated foods do not have any significantly higher radiolytic compounds than do broiled, baked or other conventionally cooked foods.

 

The scientific clinical evidence presented here has shown that this is simply a lie. In America, neither universities nor the federal government have conducted any tests concerning the effects on our bodies from eating microwaved foods. Isn't that a bit odd?

 

They're more concerned with studies on what happens if the door on a microwave oven doesn't close properly. Once again, common sense tells us that their attention should be centered on what happens to food cooked inside a microwave oven.

 

Since people ingest this altered food, shouldn't there be concern for how the same decayed molecules will affect our own human biological cell structure? "

 

The article in full is at http://www.mercola.com/article/microwave/hazards.htm

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I can't believe thisthread has been going for days and I've only just noticed it!

 

From the research I have seen, there is no eveidence to suggest that a greater proportion of children have autism in the MMR vaccinated poulation when compared to the non-vaccinated population.

 

There is also overwhelming anecdotal evidence from parents who have witnessed the 'onset of Autism' from the day of the MMR vaccine onwards.

 

What I believe is happening is that the MMR vaccine can trigger an 'Autistic Regression', but it does not cause that regression, it would in all probability have happened in due course anyway.

 

What results in a stand-off between parents who have 'lost' their NT child to post MMR Autism who (Understandably) cannot be convinced that the MMR vaccine is not the root cause and scientists who have been unable to find any convincing evidence that MMR-vaccinated children have a greater incidence of Autism.

 

Simon

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That's a very good summary, mossgrove.

 

What the scientists have failed to do is look at vaccination as a whole to see if there is a link. The Amish community are largely unvaccinated and (it seems) largely untouched by autism. Whether the two are connected, or whether it is something else in the Amish lifestyle (and they love to take their vitamins) nobody knows. There is definitely a link between the number of flu vaccines you've had and whether you get Alzheimer's (see Fudenberg).

 

I don't pretend to know the answers, but there are still a lot of unanswered questions.

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Mossgrove, Jaded

 

I take your point that maybe the autism would have come on anyway without the jab but the mmr trigged it.But what I can't understand was if in all likely hood it was going to happen any way.What about my daughter who had the first mmmr at 10 months and was fine no problems but then wasnt on the booster at four years old but then went on tomake a full recovery.If she was so subsepterble why then did she not go on the first mmr????Confused!!!!

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Ceecee, maybe your daughter's adrenal glands withstood the first MMR, but the booster was just too much? I'm fairly sure my son's problems were adrenal gland related, just a thought but perhaps the common link in both our cases is that the adrenal glands managed to recover?

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What was her immune system like ceecee? Had she had any major illnesses, colds, flu, ear infections?

 

The MMR research has been written in very careful language. I recall several pieces of research saying they could find no causal link between MMR and autism. They never actually said whether they could find a link that wasn't causal.

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CeeCee, susceptibility is increased by all sorts of factors

 

the initial jab may have put pressure on your daughter's system but not been quite enough to trigger the reaction, the second one may have just finished the job,

 

or her immune system may have been fighting off something already (which you may have seen no sign of) when she had the second jab so it was just too much for her.

 

or she may have been under some particular stress that lowered the ability of her immune system to cope with the jab ...... (Stress alone can trigger regression)

 

there really are so many factors in this and it is probably different for each child

 

Zemanski

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If we are talking about radiation then please do not forget the mobile phone - could show you all some wonderful photographs of the radiation this little beauty leaves playing around in the body for days after a call. Also do not underplay their masts. Living anywhere near a mast - and most of us do these days is not a good place to be.

 

We did a survey between a school who had a mast and a school that did not (at the time Matthew's school) we looked at the health problems the children and staff were both experiencing. The checklist of health problems looked like a tick list for autism and I am being quite serious here. We made national news with this. Hubby stared on GMTV. This was not ASD related at all and it was only afterwards that we began to piece together the fact that mobile phone technology may be a factor in some neurological conditions

 

My husband took all of the evidence that we had to Paul Shattock. It's taken a while but Paul now includes this in the myriad of environmental things that may or may not have a possible effect on us all. Mobile Phones have a double whammy because it is not just the radiation you have to worry about. These phones operate on electrical impulses like the ones we manufacture in our brains. They are transmitted in bursts and waves per second. They can (I believe) interfere with our own impulses. It is very scary stuff. They are more of a direct threat to anyone who has epilepsy. Again we have evidence to back this up.

 

Carole

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Carole,

 

I've just bought a gizmo that measures the fields given off by mobile phones, I'm intending to do a few tests. Need to look at the technical bit some more first though :blink: It also measures electrical appliances. Haven't got a microwave any more but am planning to test a few relatives :devil: One point from the microwave article is that quote �1). Continually eating food processed from a microwave oven causes long term - permanent - brain damage by "shorting out" electrical impulses in the brain [de-polarizing or de-magnetizing the brain tissue]. �

 

Perhaps microwaves and mobile phones should both come with health warnings, particularly for anyone with a history of epilepsy.

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we got our first microwave a year ago - maybe we should revert to being a microwave free household like we've been for the last 25 years.

 

glad we don't use it much

 

Zemanski

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Sue1957

 

Can I ask is your son as then?You said something about him recovering so a bit unsure.

 

Zemanski, Jaded and all

 

My daughter had not been suffering from anything that i knew of no colds no flu ear infections or anything otherwise i would not have let her have the jab.I don't think she was under any stress either, but like you say maybe there was something underlying that wasn't obvious.Incidentally what gt ormond street said to me was and I quote'the mmr booster caused the regression but the link could not be proved' So I didn't know what to make of this.I suppose because scientists have yet if ever to prove the link.Guess it doesn't mean there isn't one though.This thread is very interesting.

 

Another thing I think was was she genetically at risk as well.I have very mild as I didn't knoe that at the time.have a three year old non vaccinated (completely) little boy who is nt.

Edited by ceecee

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Ceecee,

 

He started getting over the food phobia, light sensitivity, water phobia, lining things up, avoiding everyone, rituals, and generally shutting himself off within days of removing fluoride. Muscle tone, general health, speech and his confidence and self esteem have taken longer.

 

He still has a slight speech problem (particularly when he reads out loud). It gets worse if he is stressed, and dehydrated. Until recently he was still very passive, and very vulnerable to stress. He tended to shut himself off if he couldn't deal with something. He's now starting to stand up for himself, and argue. B) Physical health and his speech are now improved as well.

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Sue1957

 

That's great news.Was he born with autism/as then or did he regress after a jab or both?

 

When my daughter had her autistic encephalitus she followed the gluten free,milk free asparteme free diet.I have to confess I couldn't definately say thats what made her recover but who knows perhaps it helped.Hope things continue to improve for your son.

 

We were so so lucky my daughter made a full recovery.It can be so tough having a child on the spectrum

 

Take care.Best wishes

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Ceecee,

 

He was too quiet in the womb, late birth, longest labour even though he was my third, much too quiet and passive. But he seemed to recover and develop typically, I have a video of him, eating his tea, interacting with us and grabbing his sister's food, laughing etc. My eldest reacted to vaccination so my 2 youngest haven't had any. I am very glad he didn't get vaccinated, I believe it could have been a lot worse.

 

Starting on fluoride toothpaste was what started the problems, but it was progressive over a couple of years. He became a very anxious little boy with the problems I've described.

 

We've removed fluoride, microwaved food, aspartame, monosodium glutamate, colourings and flavourings, toxic chemicals and colourings in toiletries, soap powders, etc. We have full spectrum lighting in the main areas of the house to reduce visual stress. We have to ensure balanced blood sugar levels, and proper hydration. He seemed to lose his sense of thirst on fluoride, that and his adrenals are what we are working on now to improve. So far we've worked on reducing chemical, nutritional, and environmental stress. I've had to work on my own stress levels, so that I am consistent with behavioural management. I've also learned other therapies and stress management, and also use indian head massage with him when I need to.

 

I've found it easier to learn how to do some therapies myself rather than take him to a therapist he doesn't know. We know our own children best, so with support we make the best therapists. :) I'm now involved with a group of therapists who teach workshops to parents/carers in various aspects of complementary therapy for reducing stress in ADD/ADHD/AS.

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Hi, :)

 

just found a good link about this topic.

 

 

http://www.alspac.bris.ac.uk/topics/mrc_proposal.shtml.

 

I am thinking about a pool to determine wether there are case of immune system disorder in the close family of children with ASD AS and what do you consider being the first reason or trigger of yours or your child autism<

but I have to put my head together H had a bad day today and just told me he spent all his play time on his own walking on the playground :tearful: while most kids of his class (boys) were playing football, sometimes I think that even if is school work is improving his social skills and interaction are really regressing. :(

 

Got the review with the Senco on Friday I am going to start another thread for advice as I feel quite low :tearful:

 

All the best.

 

Malika.

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Hi Carole and all, :)

 

You are right about radiation problems they dismiss the claim that it was not the cause of brain tumor but it is too little time to know anyway as many cancer can develope over long period of time (20 years) then there are the radiation :devil: or electrical wave from pylons line, beside for everybody who live in an area where there is lot of granits there is a natural source of radiation.

Like everything microwave should be use sporadicaly as well as mobile phone, excesses are really making matter worse. :oops:

Respective to the onset of autism it is a bit too early to know if there is a strong relation between all those "waves" and developmental disorder. :unsure:

 

Take care. ;)

 

Malika.

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I havent actually read all these posts cos i am starting to go a little cross eyed, i know there is a lot of research to be done and a lot we dont know yet about ASD's but a lot of factors have to be taken into account. Yes a lot of todays medications, vaccines viruses and bacterium could act as a catalyst, but today the disorders are RECOGNISED, our children have a disorder, they are not labelled as just slow or retarded. Even though the battle to get the dx for our children is hard but the dx is there. The medical proffesion is a lot more clued up then 20 years ago, ADHD was new then and children with asd were either stupid, naughty, or badly brought up (in the eyes of the proffessional)

Although i am left frustrated at the lack of understanding the battles with education etc etc, to keep looking for a cause of which there is no cure (ok yet) dragged me deeper and deeper into depression. If a solid reason became available then great let me in, but i feel i have had enough of mmr, mercury, water contamination and all the various "theories" that i have come accross in such a short space of time.

I dont mean to cause offence to anyone and of course i ask you to ignore me should this post do so, but sooner or later i had to accept my situation and dare i say it, make the best of it.

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Acceptance of my son's condition has been part of my journey. After a period of contemplating my own navel, I started to think about why the numbers of those diagnosed with autism are going up. Yes, greater awareness has a part, and yes there are a fair few undiagnosed Aspie adults out there, but 20 years ago the prevalence was nowhere near the MRC's 1 in 166, or the DFES's 1 in 100. After extensive reading I concluded that there has to be an environmental element. I appreciate it will be a long time until we know, and even longer until we get someone to admit it. The tobacco industry is a strong parrallel.

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Acceptance of my son's condition has been part of my journey. After a period of contemplating my own navel, I started to think about why the numbers of those diagnosed with autism are going up. Yes, greater awareness has a part, and yes there are a fair few undiagnosed Aspie adults out there, but 20 years ago the prevalence was nowhere near the MRC's 1 in 166, or the DFES's 1 in 100. After extensive reading I concluded that there has to be an environmental element. I appreciate it will be a long time until we know, and even longer until we get someone to admit it. The tobacco industry is a strong parrallel.

totally agree with the lady, but one other comment... I think there are probably a whole mess of environmental factors, some impacting individually on certain people and some more complex scenarios where there are compound 'triggers'... None of these things are likely to be direct causes of autism, but all have the potential to exacerbate genetic factors that may otherwise have lay dornmant or been mininal in their impact. One other thing I've said often is that, from a genetic point of view, the effects of autism are likely to be greater where both parents carry characteristics, which is why so many of us look at our families and say, "yes, uncle George was a bit... and Auntie Flo might have been...". Additionally, people with a 'sprinkling' are more likely to connect romantically with others who have a 'sprinkling', because firstly their own social naivity is likely to be replicated, and secondly because the ASD style behaviours are entirely natural, because they exist within their own family backgrounds!

Made sense while i typeds it - hope it does on a second viewing!

L&P

BD :D

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I think there are probably a whole mess of environmental factors, some impacting individually on certain people and some more complex scenarios where there are compound 'triggers'... None of these things are likely to be direct causes of autism, but all have the potential to exacerbate genetic factors that may otherwise have lay dornmant or been mininal in their impact.

Thanks Baddad, for me that puts it in a nutshell.

 

My eldest is in his twenties now, and when he was a small child he was very hyperactive, and was eventually referred to the hospital. The consultant told me that there was no evidence that diet had any effect on behaviour, and I was the one he wanted to refer for psychological help as I was obviously an over anxious first time mother. :angry:

 

With my youngest child, the HV picked up that his speech was a bit behind, and we were offered to be put on the waiting list for speech therapy. Other than that she had nothing to suggest. With that and trying to avoid the surgery because we opted out of vaccination, we felt we had nowhere to go. After my first experience with my eldest son, I was probably disillusioned too quickly second time round.

 

In both my son's cases I have searched for answers, but what has worked for other people hasn't always helped us. But sometimes we've been lucky and found one of the triggers.

 

My youngest son appears to be a naturally quiet, more sensitive child, and different environmental stressors seem to overwhelm him. My eldest is much more outgoing, and his stressors were completely different. Maybe their completely different personalities make their stress responses different as well.

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Hi Nikki, :)

 

As a matter of fact it will be only when a cause will be found that there may be a better chance for a cure, it is as well very important to know the theories going around and to remain vigilant to refute any attempt to reinstall as pimary cause the theory of bad parenting. :wallbash:

 

Take care.

 

Malika.

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May I remind you that whilst the refridgerator mother theory was wrong, it was useful; in this time many Autistic children were being abused by their parents and were re-homed with far better foster parents. Just because you're Autistic doesn't mean you don't have an abusive parent.

 

On the other hand, today's relentless persuit to cure us against our will IS harmful to us. Those seeking cures don't actually even know what Autism is; they don't study Autism, they study things they believe to be related to it. This means they develop projectional models about what Autism is, so they have no chance of helping an Autistic purely because they aren't responding appropriately to Autism, but their own projected version of it.

 

No services for adults because so many parents of Autistic children hope they will be 'cured' or 'recovered' before then, so no one cares about today's Autistic adults.

 

Ironically, the same projectional models of Autism flying round today all support the refridgerator parent theory in some way, though the snake-oil salesmen like to keep quite about it. It really will not be long before someone is able to 'prove' Bettlehiem was right, just because the 'wild goose' theories about Autism lean that way. I wonder if the people that created this rut will listen then?

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Hi Lucas :)

 

How do you know autistic children were abused in their parents home 25 years ago?? At the time fostering in family was not so developped more likely they were to end up in residential care anyway and to be abused there as well mind it was not a rule just an exception.

 

Lucas so far there are no established cause and no cure for autism may be one day it will come and I don't think you have the right to speak in the name of all autistic people if for yourself you are happy the way you are that is fine but you have no right to deny people who are not, to get cured if possible I know many ASD an AS youth who would like very much to be cured of their autism once again they should have the right to chose.

 

The fact that there is no service for adults is mainly because most of the adult now DX have been DX fairly recently and because professionnal seems to provide support for the youngest "early intervention" I agree with you that care should be given to all regardless of the age. However parents have little choice in the matter! :(

 

Take care.

 

Malika.

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Leo Kanner himself wrote of one man who he himself re-homed and began developing rapidly, that is one such account.

 

You'll have to excuse me if I think that depriving and denigrating a group of people and then providing them with the means to no longer be in this group for the very same reason caused by this carries a serious ethical dilemma.

 

You have no right to declare me 'happy' therefore I have no right to speak about how Autistics should be percieved and public policy made about us.

 

I don't know where you are getting your information from but most Autistic adults were diagnosed in childhood, even with AS added to the mix very few adults are ever diagnosed because there are few diagnosticians competent enough to do it.

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Hi

As far as I know most of autistic people Dx 20 25 years ago were presenting symptome of Typical autism (kanner syndrome) not high functionning or atypical autism and AS. for the people on the lower end of the spectrum Dx are fairly recent and often made when they were in their teens. Lucas I was working as educational staff in Paris 25 years ago.

 

All the best.

 

Malika

 

By the way I did not declare you "happy" just said "if for yourself you are happy" the answer is yours not mine.

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Malika, I am sick of hearing about low/high functioning comparisons that are based on a measure that doesn't even exist. Today I am low functioning, sweating profusely and unable to eat. I am like this for a reason. Tomorrow I hope to be on top form because I have to be up early in the morning to go teach a class, so I am hoping when everyone else gets home I won't be put in a disruptive, unpredictable and chaotic enviroment where I am bombarded with unreasonable demands from this NT household that they themselves would not accept from me.

 

The spectrum does not exist. There is no such thing as high or low functioning Autism, those diagnostics do not exist on any objective paper and Asperger's Syndrome is a subject which Lorna Wing has back-pedalled on. Autism is complicated, people tell me this, what they in their ignorance cannot tell me is WHY it is. Autistic people are varied, people tell me this, but once again in their ignorance they cannot tell me WHY this is. The information that has told me this is available, but I've not been told it by any NT making decisions about Autistics, I've had to find it myself first-hand when it should have all been handed straight to my mother when I was diagnosed.

 

The 'Autism' community constantly rely on mantras and myths like "It's a spectrum", "All people with Autism are different" and "Many/most/some people with Autism can't communicate". Yet any probing into these results in cries of indignation from this group who feel their authority over other people is threatened.

 

Most diagnosed Autistic adults were diagnosed as children. Most of them were not accorded any label like 'high/low functioning' because at the time the select few competent enough to make a diagnosis knew the accurate truth that there was only Autism as an inherent aspect of people who were different precisely because they were different people. It was with the massive expansion in public awarness that the dogmatic nonsense that now pervades swept aside ethics and accuracy. It was actually after the de-bunking of the refridgerator mother theory that it became routine to bang a child in an institution.

 

And I insist that making people's lives a misery and then giving them the means to put them out of their misery is coercive, managing the truth and unethical.

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Lucas so far there are no established cause and no cure for autism may be one day it will come and I don't think you have the right to speak in the name of all autistic people if for yourself you are happy the way you are that is fine but you have no right to deny people who are not, to get cured if possible I know many ASD an AS youth who would like very much to be cured of their autism once again they should have the right to chose.

I am one of those people who believe that autism is there when the child is born and of course I would have no objection to prevention if there was a known cause for this but I accept my son the way he is and I detest the words CURE or GET CURED.

 

The statement " cured of their autism" makes my blood boil.

 

 

My son has always been autistic thats just the way he is, even though we only found out the reason why he is like he is less than two years ago and while I want to help him with any problems he has because of this if I could take away his autism completely what/who would I be left with. He is first and foremost my son but autism is part of that and though I want to help him all I can I wouldn't change him for the world. I certainly wouldn't go looking for a cure.

 

Lucas,

 

My son also varies on the spectrum depending on his environment/mood etc. Yesterday he was very angry/upset and could not think clearly,today he is fine, tomorrow who knows , we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

 

Theresa

Edited by asereht

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Theresa, of course your son will vary on the non-existent spectrum depending on different factors: EVERY Autistic is the same in this regard and I have yet to be presented with a case proving otherwise.

 

What some people really don't understand is that when they say anything to the effect of "My child is <this>, because of Autism" they are no longer talking about their child exclusively, they are talking about Autism and Autism = All Autistics.

 

Where their input is sought on matters relating to Autism, they are having their say in how all Autistics are regarded, so that's why Autistics are often angry because others are making decisions about them without their involvement. The reason for excluding Autistics is often that we have no right to tell others how to raise their children, yet they have the nerve to pretend they are not harming US.

 

I don't mean to criticise you here, but to say that you think cure is wrong but prevention is fine has no logical premise. The word for it is Eugenics; altering the human condition pre-emptively for a socially favourable outcome.

 

I was extremely angry when I heard that a Deaf couple had effectively had a 'designer baby' where it was selected because it had the best chance of being born Deaf. This defeats the long held logical arguement of Deaf rights activists that it would be wrong for a Hearing couple to do the same thing to make a Hearing baby.

 

I don't like branding people as hypocritcal as a personal attack because it can stagnate a debate, but an idea can be a hypocritical double-standard and always must be revealed as such.

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To go back to the Alzheimers / Autism link discussion, I now firmly believe it is the same thing, only in reverse. There is a great talk given by Dr Jerry Kartzinel, called 'THE ROLE OF NUTRIENTS IN AUTISM' (the whole presentation can be downloaded for free from www.danwebcast.com). In it the doctor, himself a father of an autistic child, mentions having an uncle who suffers (or better still, used to suffer) from Alzeimers and having him successfuly treated as if he was autistic, using DAN! biomedical approach.

 

To those who hate the word CURE, please do not get me wrong, I also love my son exactly as he is, but ask yourself this: if you child had something like a broken bone in his/her leg that was sometimes causing pain and affecting movement, would you treat the child or attempt to cure?

 

I just believe that our kids are genuinely sick, there is something going on in the body that is affecting the brain, and we owe it to them to ease the pain. The brain is just 'downstream'.

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�To cling to a purely genetic explanation of autism is a desperate attempt to maintain the illusion that one lives in a comfortable and rational world where new chemicals and technologies always mean progress, experts are always objective and thorough, corporations are honest and authorities can be trusted. That human actions, rather that genetics, might be responsible for compromising the health of a significant propertion of a whole generation is so painful as to be, for many unthinkable.�

 

quote by Dr Martha Herbert

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Point taken Lucas and understood.

 

I think if I was told for instance that taking a certain drug would cause a baby to be autistic I would not take it deliberatly, thats the kind of thing I meant by prevention I'm just not very good at explaining myself sometimes. ( most times!) Especially when I get angry/upset.

 

Thanks for pointing this out to me.

 

Theresa

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if you child had something like a broken bone in his/her leg that was sometimes causing pain and affecting movement, would you treat the child or attempt to cure?

 

 

Sorry, I may be wrong but I don't think it's the same, if my son broke his leg it would be something that happened to him not part of his make up. If he was born with a damaged leg I would make sure he was as comfortable as possible and in no pain but would not insist they find a cure for it or fix it. just so he could be perfect in mine or someone elses eyes.

 

Theresa

Edited by asereht

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Hi Theresa,

 

It was quite ironic that you used the example of broken bones in your last post.

My youngest son has a lifelong condition 'brittle bone disorder', he can fracture his

arm just by rolling over. We have seen him in absolute agony when he has fractured

just literally stumbling over. It is very very heartbreaking indeed watching your child

suffer like that, there are also other factors with his condition. It is actually quite a rare

condition and there is no 'cure', yes of course we make him as comfortable as possible but, if we were offered him a cure tomorrow my answer would be YES PLEASE!

 

Brook

 

PS This is not intended as an attack on your post, I just felt the need to reply. ;)

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Hi Theresa and all.

 

I am not too sure wether I should apologise for making your blood boild, the fact is that this thread was first started to try to investigate and exange ideas about the possible cause of autism, so far nobody got the answer however it is probable that few causes are interacting with each other .

You said you disagre with the idea of being cured of autism I did not understand you reaction at first but may be because you see autism as a genetic make up then the cure may come to be a genetic manipulation which is something I would never agree with, for when I mention a cure it may just come to remove harmfull substances which may help (may be) more susceptible children to develope or function more evenly.

In France they have now many cases of autism and a ferocious campaign for the right to chose for the children to be vaccinated or not (I am talking here about all vaccinations not only the MMR) this may seems extreme but if you know that in France a non vaccinated child is not allowed to go to school and in consequences all welfare may be removed then the campaign makes much more sens.

You see some children have autism and associated with that they may develope Tourette syndrome lot of symptoms of Tourette can be lessen or removed through medication then may be the child may appear to have change but if is condition is really difficult why should we refuse this help to a child.

It seems that the outcry about cure always comes with the problem of mental or neurological illness this is because we have not yet as a society manage to move away from the stigma caused by mental related problem, this is why the DX of autism generate so many upseting and some people never manage to cope with it.

As for the fact of autism being a spectrum or not I wish at least that when you start agressing me about my view you would feed me back with some book to read or link where I could find some informations. Beside I have met with some non verbal autistic children with severe autistic behaviour (not all children who are not verbale have severe autism) and really I cannot see how you can reconciliate the huge differences between various autistic children without implicating the existence of a spectrum but one particular girl with severe autism who is 18 and never talk cannot be on the same "level"(sorry I don't like this word but could not find another one) than a child who talk fluently even with some pragmatic difficulties even in a case when a autistic child stop communicating for sometimes it cannot be the same than a child who never manage to communicate fluently. I find as well that denying the existence of a spectrum deny our children to be properly assest and provided for their need and this is valid for non verbal children who are much more in need of support, this does not mean however that more communicative children are not in need of support and are not having difficulties coping it does mean that the provision have to be different and the approach as well.

 

May be Theresa you could start another thread like "To be cured or not to be cured? This is the question." this certainly would generate much debate which I would read but not participate in as yours and Lucas answer to my post have nearly kill me from an adrenaline overdose bear in mind that I am a nearly old and fragile Lady and do not appreciate to be used as a punching bag.

I am sorry to mention it but I found your reactions very difficult to swallow and I kept being very polite and helpful and start to wonder why I am being treated this way....???

 

Thanks God that I had a very good meeting at school with the SENCO and the Teacher.

 

I am however sorry if I create any upseting to any of you but by character I like to disolve situation before getting stuck with it.

 

All the best.

 

Malika.

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Cure is a very loaded word. I prefer to use the word 'treatable'.

 

Theresa, of course your son will vary on the non-existent spectrum depending on different factors: EVERY Autistic is the same in this regard and I have yet to be presented with a case proving otherwise.

 

This is the same for every human, not unique to autism at all, only more apparent.

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Theresa,

 

you say

if my son broke his leg it would be something that happened to him not part of his make up...

 

That is exactly the point I'm trying to make: I do not think autism is part of anyone's make-up - there is possibly a genetic predisposition, or VULNERABILITY might be a better word for it. But then something from outside attacks the body, be it viral, fungal, bacterial, mercury, birth trauma ... or a combination of factors that then trigger the symptoms.

 

As for the reasons for treatment (yes, a better word): my son is now already a much, much happier and healthier child than before the treatments began. I do believe he has been in pain for most of his early life (night-terrors, headbanging, gnawing etc etc, all now gone). In addition to that, he has been in constant FEAR and anxiousness about everything and anything etc etc. Reasons good enough to try and find a 'cure'. As you grow up you probably get 'used' to all the things going on in your body and they no longer cause such big problems, but it there was a pill to 'cure' autism I'd vote Yes.

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