Autism the reasons: Genetic MMR/ mercury

[natasha778]

Reading Lucas' posts have been very enlightening and challenged my own thought processes whilst also clarifying other points I disagree on. My son does needs understanding and acceptance but he needs more than that to maximise his potential and reduce the degree to which he is imapired by his autism. It doesn't mean I am denying him his autism or what he is but I will do my damnest to help his passage through life be as easy as possible. Seeing his intense frustrated when he can't express what he wants, anxious when he doesn't understand what is going on around him fully or forlorn when he wants to play with another child but doesn't know how to, the list of situations when life is harder for him goes on and on. Loving and accepting him goes a way to helping but it's not enough

 

 

Liz, that is exactly the point I was trying to make, thanks.

 

 

 

Ops!

[ray]

Liz, brilliantly put.

 

Except when it might provide some insight for me to help Alex through a particular problem, I really stopped thinking of him in terms of his AS years ago. And as he's become older and a little more articulate, more of the insight comes from him. Some of you recently helped us with the scared of dying thing a few weeks ago and yesterday he told me that whilst he doesn't like getting up for college in the morning its better than at the weekends when he has a bit of a lay-in because he thinks he might just go on sleeping, never wake up, and die. I would never have thought of that and then I realised that his fear often 'peaked' on a Friday/Saturday. Now I know what to do.

 

It also reminded me that, as are all our children, he is a unique individual and we need our own ways of helping them find their way through this life. And so whilst much of this debate has been fascinating its, to me, a little academic.

 

As for religion well, until about 4.00pm yesterday I had no religious beliefs until I said a silent prayer to the god of foootball, and then saw the mighty Leeds demolish sorry Saints. (hope I haven't lowered the tone too much).

 

Ray

[curra]

Reading Lucas' posts have been very enlightening and challenged my own thought processes whilst also clarifying other points I disagree on. My son does needs understanding and acceptance but he needs more than that to maximise his potential and reduce the degree to which he is imapired by his autism. It doesn't mean I am denying him his autism or what he is but I will do my damnest to help his passage through life be as easy as possible. Seeing his intense frustrated when he can't express what he wants, anxious when he doesn't understand what is going on around him fully or forlorn when he wants to play with another child but doesn't know how to, the list of situations when life is harder for him goes on and on. Loving and accepting him goes a way to helping but it's not enough

 

 

I've been reading this thread for the last 2 hours or so with great interest though I have to admit that I don't understand many of the things that some posters have written, but then, it can be because my English is not exceptionally good. I would like to add a simple thought and avoid getting into philosophical depths which I am not very good at. Having been in a constant , fruitless struggle to get help and support for my son who is diagnosed with AS, so that his needs are met and he can grow up to be as independent, fullfilled and happy as most children should and possibly will be, and seeing that there is little or no help at all for him in our society no matter how much I knock on this or that door, my question is: What ELSE is there for him appart from loving and accepting him? What medications are available, which I prefer not to give him because they all have side effects (I personally cannot take antidepresants because of the side effect, so how much worse are they in a child?) , what therapy is available that can increase his options of being "accepted" by society, what education that will teach him in the way that he is capable of learning? So far, I haven't found them and I would be really very grateful if someone could provide therapeutical information that is proven to be effective. It's not that I believe that autism is a social dilemma. I have little doubts that my son's AS is genetically caused, though I also think that there can be other causes in other cases. His cousin is probably AS too. My son had a brain scan at the age of 3 (he fell and hit his head and the private cosultant who saw him preferred to have this test done) and it was then seen that the right side of his brain is slightly larger than the left side. He was not diagnosed until the age of 10 because his language is extremely well developed (not like mine ...) but understanding the perspectives of others and socializing has become increasingly difficult for him as he grows up. His levels of stress, anxiey and fear have also increased with age. Life is becoming harder for him as he grows and the demands of society (particularly schools' demands) are bigger too, so what is best, to give him medications, try to make him be what he cannot be in order to function better, at the risk of his mental health, or give him the support, love and acceptance required to reduce his stress and fears, so that he can develop better?

[oracle]

Ray Well said

 

And as he's become older and a little more articulate, more of the insight comes from him.

 

I have said this before and I will say it again. Our children grow up to be adults with AS and ASD who are a world away from the children that we know now. How do I know that? I now have an adult son with AS who bears no resemblance to the child that I had with AS.

 

And although he and his eight-year-old brother do not get along ?he? is the best insight I have into my youngest. I have to admit that I have been shocked by some of his revelation but no matter how hard I try I will NEVER be able to see life through his AS eyes. I do not have AS. I have also been saddened as he remembers his childhood very well and only now can he tell me that bits that he found very difficult.

 

I have found this debate very interesting but I have also been quite shocked at the strength of feeling being directed as some people. I sense a great deal of anger, which is in my opinion being misdirected. I admit to only half understanding many of the posts. So yes I have been blinded by science by people who obviously have a greater depth of understanding of this topic than myself. It is not the actual debate that I am now commenting on but the ?tone? of that debate. I only hope that I never come across as strongly to my sons. I have no desire to cripple their self-esteem any more than it has already been crippled.

 

Damn and I promised myself that I would stay out of this one.

 

Carole

[Malika]

but no matter how hard I try I will NEVER be able to see life through his AS eyes. I do not have AS. I have also been saddened as he remembers his childhood very well and only now can he tell me that bits that he found very difficult.

 

Carole You are right on this one we can push the boundaries as much as we can and reach may be a better understanding but never can we experience what our children experience and far too often the destruction of a confidence which is already weaken, my son is 8 but I cannot really predicte at this stage who he will be at 18, the best I can come up with is to keep communicating and stay close and supportive.

 

Curra as for the choice to opte for medication or not, it is a very complexe one and always depends of the circonstances some autistic people cannot do without it for various reasons, of course it should be a kind of last resort when nothing else (support leraning and stress relief) has been found effectif, and possibly kept as a temporary measure, my son has a lot of tics sometimes for 10 mns it is not a pbs at home but at school pupils laugh at him an he feels very upset to the point that the teacher put some of the nastier children behind him so they cannot see his face, surprisingly one day my son ask me if he could go to the doctor as he wants the dr to do something about it what he said was "everybody think I am dump because of this and I have enough I want you to ask the Dr to do something" he is 8 now and he is feeling that way how will he be feeling in 4/5 years time I keep reassuring him but for how long what I have to say will help him with his anxiety level. I do not know? I feel very upset sometimes but cannot show him that and put on a brave face. I really do not know what will be the options for the future.

 

All of you take care. <'>

 

Malika.

[curra]

Curra as for the choice to opte for medication or not, it is a very complexe one and always depends of the circonstances some autistic people cannot do without it for various reasons, of course it should be a kind of last resort when nothing else (support leraning and stress relief) has been found effectif, and possibly kept as a temporary measure, my son has a lot of tics sometimes for 10 mns it is not a pbs at home but at school pupils laugh at him an he feels very upset to the point that the teacher put some of the nastier children behind him so they cannot see his face, surprisingly one day my son ask me if he could go to the doctor as he wants the dr to do something about it what he said was "everybody think I am dump because of this and I have enough I want you to ask the Dr to do something" he is 8 now and he is feeling that way how will he be feeling in 4/5 years time I keep reassuring him but for how long what I have to say will help him with his anxiety level. I do not know? I feel very upset sometimes but cannot show him that and put on a brave face. I really do not know what will be the options for the future.

Malika:

 

I feel for your son and for you. Does he take any medication and does it help him?

My son has very similar problems. The other children have always teased him for his mannerisms. gait and speech and he sits at the front, as far as possible from peers who keep having a go at him. What I wrote about medications and therapies (not being very effective)

[curra]

Curra as for the choice to opte for medication or not, it is a very complexe one and always depends of the circonstances some autistic people cannot do without it for various reasons, of course it should be a kind of last resort when nothing else (support leraning and stress relief) has been found effectif, and possibly kept as a temporary measure,   my son has a lot of tics sometimes for 10 mns it is not a pbs at home but at school pupils laugh at him an he feels very upset   to the point that the teacher put some of the nastier children behind him so they cannot see his face,   surprisingly one day my son ask me if he could go to the doctor as he wants the dr to do something about it what he said was "everybody think I am dump because of this and I have enough I want you to ask the Dr to do something"   he is 8 now and he is feeling that way how will he be feeling in 4/5 years time I keep reassuring him but for how long what I have to say will help him with his anxiety level. I do not know? I feel very upset  sometimes but cannot show him that and put on a brave face. I really do not know what will be the options for the future.

Malika:

 

I feel for your son and for you. <'>

My son has very similar problems. The other children have always teased him for his mannerisms, his gait and speech and he also sits, like your son, at the front, as far as possible from peers who keep having a go at him. What I wrote about medications and therapies (not being very effective) was out of despair. My son's also on medications (Melatonin and Desmopressin) and I think that medications are good when they help aleviate problems, but for his depression and anxiety I have only given him my constant understanding and support, whatever it takes. My own reaction to antidepresants was quite bad, so I will avoid giving them to him as much as possible. He would benefit much much more from psychotherapy IMO, but sofar I have been told that there is no therepay for Asperger's. I find this incredible since a child can suffer from depression/anxiety/ phobias, aggressiveness etc IN ADDITION to his AS! It is so obvious that children who are constantly stressed at school and are made to feel different (and laughable) will react with emotional problems more frequently and deeply than NT children, so in my view, the argument that there's no treatment for AS is just another money-saving excuse at the cost of our children. Sorry for using this thread for the rant. I feel very helpless... but as long as i can do something for him I am not hopeless.

Take care <'> : <'>

Gloria

[sue1957]

Running through traffic at the age of 4 sounds normal for a lot of kids, don't worry about that. A lot of ADD and ADHD diagnoses are sure to be wrong purely because experts on child development can be so good raising their own perfect children that they forget what real children can be like, so they think it's odd when you describe to them odd things.

 

Odd is normal regardless of Autism or Neurotypicality.

 

At least he's a happy drunk(the Irish drunk) and not the angry drunk(the Scottish drunk).

No this isn?t another philosophical debate ?.

 

Lucas, You are angry at my post. Several of yours have upset me as a parent. I do not intend to anger you, (but perhaps it is the Scottish in me, or maybe I just need a drink).

 

It is different for a parent looking after a child of 4, we expect to protect our children from traffic until they learn to do so themselves. Halleyscomet: (My son being 18 is ?.)

 

My husband?s brother didn?t die a happy drunk, or an angry one. He had no intervention as a child, he was considered �odd� but the family accepted him. He was misdiagnosed in his teens when his problems coping with his environment increased. When his main carers either died (his mother) or developed serious illness themselves (his father), a changed environment was forced on him. Without a 24 hour live in carer, his savant memory skills could not help him, he had excellent self-esteem, but he Self?neglected. As an adult in his 40s he could deny problems and refuse help both from professionals and family, and there was nothing the family could legally do. He allowed us to pay his bills, no more. I don?t seek to upset you or anyone else, but autistic or neurotypical regardless, odd/normal, a diagnosis and a label isn?t always the issue.

 

Despite the best intentions, and thinking we had put in safeguards to protect him, we could not predict every potential change he might encounter. The one certainty in life is that everything will change. Society doesn?t have the systems in place to change that, and I doubt they ever will. Staff change, people become sick, they age, mistakes get made. What �works� today will be tomorrow, or next week, or next year?s bad idea. My husband and his family were J?s carers for almost 50 years, I was a member of the caring team for only 10.

 

If I was to look to the future of my son and think that I will not be able to stop him running about in traffic at 18, will it be my fault if I don?t manage to stop him? What about when I am no longer here? The difference in whether he?s a happy drunk and not an angry drunk will not help him survive me. If my child is unlikely to survive for long after me, which comes first for me as a parent? Helping him survive at all? Or allowing professionals and other autistics to give labels and opinions that can define him or limit him? Parents, professionals, other autistics, although unintentional, we ALL have the same potential for harm.

 

My son at 4 years old had greater problems than his Uncle did at the same age. As parents we do not look to �cure� autism in the sense you may perceive it, we look to giving all our children the best chance to survive us that we can. My family have EXPERIENCED one of the worst things that CAN happen, as parents we don?t want the same thing happening again. One experience (our Eve) is enough, whatever the 5 Adams of opinion think, we have experienced differently. Your experience of autism is different to my brother in law, and so are your circumstances and your abilities.

 

Our philosophies don?t match, (but don?t worry though, after my last post and the field theory, I?ve run right out of steam!!)

 

Some autistics can survive alone, but those that can do not speak for those who can?t. Any more than a non-autistic or NT can speak for all non-autistics or NTs. We can all only hold up our �experiences� and ideas for others to look at if they so wish and accept or reject in the light of their own �knowing.�

 

Lucas you said in one of your posts (and I am not intending to take things out of context, my point is a change in environment),

 

�Leo Kanner himself wrote of one man who he himself re-homed and began developing rapidly?�

 

You said in another

 

I 'feel' different as I move from one room to another, there are 'good rooms' and 'bad rooms' in some places and they affect functioning in a subtle way.

 

And another

 

�But in mankind's case, man is changing the environment faster than he is physically adapting to it and making up for it by adapting in the faculties that allow him to understand and manipulate the environment to begin with, hence Autistics.�

 

Each of these acknowledges environment. By looking to improve the environment for everyone, will not autistics benefit? I don?t believe in an Autistic soul, but an autistic personality? I know this takes us into left brain/right brain stuff, but an autistic or non autistic personality, yes, it allows for both equally, but also separately, and some will be a varying mixture. We are what we are, but it allows for the potential for us to �change our mind� if we so choose. When I look at the environmental problems for my family, it helps all my family, autistic personality or non-autistic. If my son has an autistic personality, then giving him a healthier environment still allows him to be autistic, he just won?t have the same physical problems, or the same fears and phobias. He shouldn?t have to have these problems in order to BE autistic, however any of us define it.

 

I?m not intending to anger anyone, and I think this thread has gone a different way to what was originally intended. I?m happy to chat philosophy via email with you any time Lucas, but if a moderator needs to call me to order, it is time for me to come off a thread.

 

But if anyone is up for another thread on the environmental factors that affect health generally, with no mention of specific conditions?? I?m definitely up for it. And I hope you are too Lucas.

<'> <'>

Sue

[Malika]

Hi Curra and thanks

 

Just wanted to answer to your post I lost the track I was not well, Sorry .

 

No my son does not take any medication so far I am worry to interfere with his already fragile balance but if he cannot cope I suppose I will have to consider it,

I am hoping things will get better as he is a bit better now respective of what he was 2 years ago .

Stress free environment (at home) is what I am trying to acheive, I have seen some good result so far and it help him cope with school...but things may change with time hope it will be for the best.

 

Thanks and take care.

 

Malika.