Autism and Socalisation

[oracle]

Post Deleted

Edited November 29, 2005 by carole

[Guest flutter]

i have printed off to read in bed laters

looks great tho

welldone

[asereht]

"Sitting in a classroom surrounded by 30 other children who are all using various methods of communication and not just the spoken word, which our children find difficult enough to understand on it?s own, is not teaching our children anything. But it is leading to frustration anxiety and in some cases a need to be referred to Childhood and Adolescence Mental Health Service. "

 

 

This is the case with my son who attends the service on a daily basis and is now doing very well but their aim is to hopefully get him back to school on a very slow going process . They aim to take things very slowly indeed and gradually build up, starting with just a trip to the school gate with one of them and then home again. Nothing is set in stone and at the moment there is no mention of him going anywhere near school. He will attend where he is for as long as he needs and will have a daily programme ( which he is enjoying) as well as an anxiety group twice a week for 8 weeks starting next week.

 

He has not attended school since last june doesn't even like to mention the word and he is like a different child ( much happier).

 

The thoughts of him returning to school fills me with dread but I can't tell them that at the unit or they may think I don't want him to get on with his life. ( he came close to break down) Am I wrong to be worried?

 

Theresa

Edited November 5, 2005 by asereht

[oracle]

The thoughts of him returning to school fills me with dread but I can't tell them that at the unit or they may think I don't want him to get on with his life. ( he came close to break down) Am I wrong to be worried?

 

 

Hi Theresa

 

No I think that you are right to be worried BUT I think that you have to go with this to see what is and is not going to be possible. If this is taken very slowly then there is a good chance it will work out for your son. I think maybe you could find a way to express your concerns without the powers that be feeling that you are trying to back out. If they have any level of understaning, which I know is asking a great deal of them, then they should already realise this.

 

When David was attempting to get back into the system it was done far to quickly. Had they taken the time to do it at his pace then who knows?

 

One thing I know is that I have my fingers and toes crossed for you all.

 

Carole

[asereht]

Thanks Carole.

[Guest GILBO!]

I have AS, not autism but i think that this thread is EXTREMLEY patronising.

[mossgrove]

Gilbo

 

I would be very interested to hear you explain your comment in a litle more detail.

 

Simon

[asereht]

Gilbo , I too would like to hear your detailed opinion, also why do you not consider AS to be Autism, my son has AS but he also refers to himself as Autistic or having Autism. ( genuine question ,no offence intended).

 

T

[oracle]

I have AS, not autism but i think that this thread is EXTREMLEY patronising.

 

I can see why you would feel like this and it is almost impossible to address these issues without upsetting someone. It is however EXTREMLEY difficult to try and get teachers to understand why children with autism find it so difficult in mainstream classrooms sat alongside children they have nothing in common with and yet are expected to socalise with them.

 

When our children are small they only have us to rely on to help them through their time at school. If there is a better way to make the point I would love to hear it.

 

Carole

[Guest GILBO!]

OK, i think that the fact that through the whole rant you didnt specify whether or not you were just talking about autism or everyone on the autistic spectrum, which would lead me to believe you meant EVERYONE on the spectrum made comments like " imagine what it must be like to have no know knowledge off whats social and whats not" EXTREMLEY patronising.

 

But hey what do you no i have AS, all us aspies who arent your children are worth to you is a bit of gossip.

[oracle]

You know a great deal more than I as I do not have ASD.

Carole

[asereht]

But hey what do you no i have AS, all us aspies who arent your children are worth to you is a bit of gossip.

This is very unfair . I for one have always found carole to be of help and I have come a long way with my son with her help and advice.

 

Gilbo , by all means have an opinion but a little bit of manners would not go astray.

 

Theresa

[Viper]

Carole, I think this is an excelent piece and sums up my whole argument with the school and the way they treated Ben. The whole time he was there (Well 4 weeks and never a full day) they tried to make him fit into the square box idea they have of children, unfortunately Ben had more angles to him and could not fit into the box. I felt they would not give in until they had taken all his extra angles off and squashed him into a box and in doing so make him very uncomfortable but at least the system would be happy.

 

Gilbo, we are all here to gain knowledge of Autism for the good of all the people on the spectrum not just our own children. We also wish to give knowledge to others to help the world accept ASD's

 

Viper.

[Guest GILBO!]

Gilbo, we are all here to gain knowledge of Autism for the good of all the people on the spectrum not just our own children. We also wish to give knowledge to others to help the world accept ASD's

 

Viper.

"Help the world accept ASD's" jebus h christ, my whole problem with Carole's post was stereotyping and it would seem that all ASD's are the same now.

 

But hey, im very sure that pointing out that i find something patronsing is a sign of bad manners. Thous probably N-T thou must know better than to have one of thy aspies tell us when thy is not happy with something.

 

Im sure that this is truer than the bible itself.

Edited November 10, 2005 by GILBO!

[willbo book]

I have AS, not autism but i think that this thread is EXTREMLEY patronising.

I compelete agree with u gilbo

[Guest GILBO!]

It would seem that all the N-t people on this forum are finding it hard to put themselves in our shoes. How As.

[mossgrove]

It would seem that all the N-t people on this forum are finding it hard to put themselves in our shoes. How As.

That is the whole point of my original question when I asked you to clarify your remearks..

 

The vast bulk of NT people on this forum are involved in the care of people across the whole of the Autitic Spectrum, AS included.

 

In oder to do that, is it so terrible to try and undertand as much as we can of what it is like to have AS/Autism? If you feel our understanding is incorrect or we are being patronising, we are more than happy to listen, we want to know, we want to understand. As you will have noticed by now, we may not always relaise if we are being patronising, so feel free to point it out!

 

As to whether people with AS are Autistic, all I can say is that there is a very lively debate out there involving people with far more knowledge/experience than we, and no clear agreement, so I feel quite entitled to be confused, even if you feel it is straightforward!

 

Simon

[Viper]

Gilbo.

 

Nowhere in my post did I say all ASD's are the same. What I do know through experience of two children with ASD's is that they are both very diferent and neither of them are accepted by the general public. No two NT childeren are the same either but they are considered by the world as "normal" a word we on this forum hate to use as we consider all people as normal, it is not abnormal to be diferent. All we want is for more understanding to be given to Autism and ASD's.

 

I am very sorry if you are offended by our discusions but you have yet to give a valid reason for this upset. If you could validate your comments we could gain more understanding of where we are going wrong. Your oppinions are important to help NT ignoramuses understand.

 

Viper.

[oracle]

We will enter into a no win situation where everyone loses if we can never speak out for fear of getting it wrong as parents.

 

When our children are young 'we' as in their parents have no choice but to be their voice. This happens with all kids NT or ASD. Parents have a duty of care for their children and hopefully we take that duty seriously.

 

What we think is best for our children can only ever be based on our children and our opinions. The whole point of writing a paper on Autism and Socalisation was because there is so much that they system is getting wrong. I am not for one moment saying that I am 100% right in my opinions and that they count for every ASD child on the planet - but until our ASD children are old enough to speak out for themselves - as my oldest now is - then we either sit back and say nothing for fear of offending young people and adults who have autism - or we make a stand and try and improve things for our children.

 

 

I would love to hear your opinions on what we should be doing for children with ASD where socalisation is concerned? We are all fully entitled to our opinions and we can hopefully respect those opinions. Unless you can tell us the right way to do things then it will always be left to NT parents doing the best that they can. Do not tell us where we are going wrong without telling us how to put it right.

 

My own adult son with ASD was happy with what I had written and certainly did not feel patronised at all. Believe me he is my BIGGEST critic and would NEVER agree with me just because I am his mother.

 

Carole

[Guest GILBO!]

So saying that ASD's dont no whats social and whats not isnt patronising?

 

If not i must be more AS then i thought.

[oracle]

GILBO are you saying that 'everyone' with ASD will not need any help with their socialisation or just you?

 

Carole

[mossgrove]

Gilbo

 

This is part of the diagnostic criteria for Apergers:

 

A.Qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:

 

(1) marked impairment in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body postures, and gestures to regulate social interaction

(2) failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level

(3) a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interests, or achievements with other people (e.g., by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people)

(4) lack of social or emotional reciprocity

 

I can accept that you personally may feel you do not have difficulties in this area, but why is it patrionizing to say people with Aspergers have difficulties with Social Interction when Difficulties with Social interaction are an integral part of the definition of Aspergers?

 

Simon

[Guest GILBO!]

GILBO are you saying that 'everyone' with ASD will not need any help with their socialisation or just you?

 

Carole

No, that would be silly. My entire problem with your original post was patronising generalisations.

 

can accept that you personally may feel you do not have difficulties in this area, but why is it patrionizing to say people with Aspergers have difficulties with Social Interction when Difficulties with Social interaction are an integral part of the definition of Aspergers?

 

 

This may be true, but not everyone enjoys having it pointed out.

 

BTW i know lots of people with AS who are extremley social, i cant imagine Auriel waving a bucket of sand in an arabs face.

[oracle]

This may be true, but not everyone enjoys having it pointed out.

 

The paper was never writtten to point anything out to those with ASD. It was written to point 'it' out to professionals who are causing a great deal of stress and distress to our children.

 

I did run this past several of my adult ASD friends because the very last thing I wanted to do was to make anyone feel patronised. But I still believe that parents are caught between the devil and the deep blue sea in many areas of raising our ASD children. We are damned if we do and damned if we don't.

 

Not everyone is fortunate enough to go to a school or college that has specialist ASD provison. If you look at the statistics then you will realise just how fortunate a child is to obtain a specialist placement. Many of our children are being dragged through mainstream and being taught by people that have no understanding or awareness of how their condition 'may' be affecting them.

 

My youngest could sell snow to the Eskimos but he still has problems with socalisation.

 

Carole

[asereht]

But hey, im very sure that pointing out that i find something patronsing is a sign of bad manners. Thous probably N-T thou must know better than to have one of thy aspies tell us when thy is not happy with something.

Gilbo , I didn't think it was bad manners to point out you find something patronising.

 

It was the direct comment to carole that she sees aspie kids who are not hers as a bit of gossip . Do you not think that was bad manners?

 

My son could sell sand to the Arabs but he cannot socialise at all and is in a very bad way at the moment because of this. You do not find socialising a problem and I am glad for you (really) . Carole was trying to let the powers that be know that for a lot of kids who are ASD it is a problem.

 

Sorry to come on so strong but at the moment this socialisation issue is controlling my son's life.

 

Theresa

[Auriel]

the reason to the harshness of GILBOs replys is because he has autism and thus problems with socalisation :P

[mossgrove]

the reason to the harshness of GILBOs replys is because he has autism and thus problems with socalisation :P

I am glad it was you that said that and not me!

 

Simon

[Guest GILBO!]

the reason to the harshness of GILBOs replys is because he has autism and thus problems with socalisation :P

Theres no need to laugh at the fact that us ASD's cant socialise Auriel.

[oracle]

No one has ever said that people with ASD can not socialise and if I am being accused of patronising people then I detect more than a touch of sarcasm here. So that just about makes us even I feel.

 

For many parents this is a serious issue and many of our children are failing in mainstream schools. For those of you who are fortunate enought to be in ASD specific placements and do not need any help with your social skills brilliant - but there are those that do.

 

Carole

Edited November 11, 2005 by carole

[Guest GILBO!]

Earlier on in the thread i wrote this:

But hey, im very sure that pointing out that i find something patronsing is a sign of bad manners. Thous probably N-T thou must know better than to have one of thy aspies tell us when thy is not happy with something.

 

Im sure that this is truer than the bible itself.

 

Did you not just detect a little bit of sarcasm there?

 

Anyway the only reason that the general As kid fails in a mainstream school, is that that "Tory" Tony Blair doesunt see us as an important issue.

 

Mainly because it would go against his MMR doesunt cause ASD theory. Which is a silly theory to begin with.

[willbo book]

the reason to the harshness of GILBOs replys is because he has autism and thus problems with socalisation :P

Theres no need to laugh at the fact that us ASD's cant socialise Auriel.

most ASD's can't sociallies very well but i have ASD and i find it very easy to i think most ASD kids can't because most kids have bullyed them in mainsteam schools and there scaryed that it they try to make new friends they will be bullied again but when they got over that they ten to socailise better like when i first got bullied for having ASD i didn't leave the house very often but things have chagned now for the better

[willbo book]

Earlier on in the thread i wrote this:

But hey, im very sure that pointing out that i find something patronsing is a sign of bad manners. Thous probably N-T thou must know better than to have one of thy aspies tell us when thy is not happy with something.

 

Im sure that this is truer than the bible itself.

 

Did you not just detect a little bit of sarcasm there?

 

Anyway the only reason that the general As kid fails in a mainstream school, is that that "Tory" Tony Blair doesunt see us as an important issue.

 

Mainly because it would go against his MMR doesunt cause ASD theory. Which is a silly theory to begin with.

I kinda agree with u gilbo

[nvapid]

carole - is this paper based on any written research? I would be interested in the resources, or is it on personal experience?

 

In some senses I agree with Gilbo. By repeated refering to "autism" you have generalised your subject - which is too wide an area to speack so specifically of, especially in the more extreme autistic cases. ASD's CAN socalize, but often only with adults or those younger than themselves. Asperger's do have socalization issues, but they can vary in etreme. I would suggest you review the paper either and personalise it more, replacing "autism" with "my AS child" or back it up with quoted resources.

 

thank you for writing the paper. it is better to have written something than nothing, and look at the discussion it has generated. talking is a good thing!

[bid]

Who is the girl in Wilbo's avatar??

 

I know it's not Wil, cos I've met him!

 

Bid

[Auriel]

but tehy do have the same hair

[Auriel]

long hair is for girls

[bid]

Er...and what is your hair like??!

 

Mum (The Horrible!)

[asereht]

Stuff

I didn't read the whole thing, but what I did see I found not patronising but downright insulting. I couldn't read it all because I wasn't gonna sit through being told how I have no social skills or common sense, even. To say that all people with Aspergers can't figure out what facial expressions mean or, to take your example, someone tutting meaning they disapprove. I know that I, for one, can make a connection like this, so to say all people with Autism can't is plain ridiculous.

 

-K (Asereht's son)

Edited November 29, 2005 by asereht

[Corcaigh]

Gilbo, Wilbo and whoever contributed to this interesting topic, would you like to write more about you, even in privete to me (buckleym@iol.ie)? I am doing a research abouth AS and ASD self-advocacy and self-awareness. Interestingly, my son (AS) defines himself Asperger with great pride. I would love to exchange notes with all of you.

Thanks,

Martina

[Gilbo]

Gilbo, Wilbo and whoever contributed to this interesting topic, would you like to write more about you, even in privete to me (buckleym@iol.ie)? I am doing a research abouth AS and ASD self-advocacy and self-awareness. Interestingly, my son (AS) defines himself Asperger with great pride. I would love to exchange notes with all of you.

Thanks,

Martina

 

Hmmmmm, i know im not wanted around these here parts anymore, but i am kinda intrested in this, can you pm me more information?

 

Dont worry admins i promise not to make anymore posts.

Edited February 17, 2006 by Gilbo