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LKS

P Levels

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When my daughter was in year 2 she achieved level W in her SATs. We had an acting headteacher at the time who called myself and another parent in to explain about P levels. These measure the small steps that certain SEN children make between stages. It was very clear and she gave us both a printout. Fast forward to the juniors. Every time I have asked to see what level my daughter is on I have been given various exscuses by the Senco who tells me it is very hard to carry out any tests on my daughter. I told her that it was explained to me that these were not tests but assessments that are carried out on a regular basis. My previous posting about my argument with the E.P. was a bit to do with this info. She said she couldn't see what good it would do me to have this information :wallbash::wallbash: Well to be told your child is working at year 1 level is o.k. but I would like to have a little more information and after all the acting head in the infants said that this information would be shared with parents. The Senco justs bluffs and blunders her way through any questions I ask her now. I have now written to my SEN officer to ask her what information has been provided for her by the school because I'm sure they monitor SEN pupils regularly and with great interest and are straight on to the school when they feel the a pupil is not makin satisfactory progress :devil:

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At the meeting I went to a few weeks ago with our LEA. PN assured us parents that every child is on their database and is monitered to ensure that they are picked up before they fall behind. So I'm sure your SEN Officer will only have to enter your daughters name into their computer and all the information will be made available :devil:

 

Something tells me that it wont be quite as easy as that though :whistle:

 

XX

Edited by annie

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:lol: annie what a load of c**p. I still can't understand why schools will not share information with you, by not doing so they automatically make you feel like they have something to hide. I used to be quite a trusting person before I became involved with Senco's, the LEA and its SEN team. Now unfortunately I don't seem to be able to trust anyone I don't like how this makes me feel sometimes.

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I feel the same as you.

 

We seem to learn pretty quickly that it isn't our children that are the priority. I still find it hard to believe that the very people we are led to believe are there to help us, can tell so many lies and act so underhandedly............and nobody wants to make them accountable for doing so :angry::angry::wallbash::wallbash: .

 

XX

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it is unfortunately obvious why they will not share the information...

they have not done it. They have not completed the paperwork, and some don't even have the training to know that it is required. Those who do know what they SHOULD be doing, often leave large chunks out because no one has ever asked them for it. When some one starts to prevaricate and put you off normally you KNOW it's because they have not done it. The same goes here. She is lying to you, and it is not that she has the information and is keeping it from you, but that she has never even done it in the first place.

 

Put your request in writing to her wityh copies to the HT and the governing body chair if necessary. That will either get her to do the assessments retrospectively, or admit that they have not been done. :devil::devil:

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Thanks nvapid I think you are completely right. I have just had an e-mail from the SNO at the lea. She said she apologises but it is difficult for her to get involved in school matters :wacko: Is it me or is that exactly what the LEA should be doing with a statemented child. She advises me to contact parent partnership as I have done in the past :devil: I have replied to her asking if the school have provided the LEA with any attainment levels or information regarding my daughters progress as surely they will have, as this must be essential to monitor her progress, then I shall make another appointment to come in and view my daughters SEN records. :whistle:

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yesterday we got the documentation for Com's review next week.

 

Com has had a really bad year, he has regressed in academic, social, self-help and emotional development over the year.

 

we have all the records and letters to show this and had a long bitter fight to get Com's needs met.

 

it was so bad the governors have had to investigate Com's time at the school, and we have had to threaten legal action more than once

 

finally, in September they put in the provision we asked for and it's working (well, not entirely, he did have an informal exclusion today :wallbash: )

 

the documents give no indication whatsoever of Com's difficulties or regression, even the attainment levels show only the improvement he has made in the last 2 months.

there is nothing to give credence to the need for improved provison, nothing to back up any of the amendments to the statement we are about to ask for

 

strange isn't it?

 

I'm just in the middle of a very long 'parents' advice'

 

it starts:

 

Y8 was a complete disaster for Com ........

 

Hmmmm!

 

Zemanski

Edited by Zemanski

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Well to be told your child is working at year 1 level

 

Did they say this exactly? Children on P scales are said to be working towards level one, normally. The fact that you mention P levels make me think that

 

I have to tell you that the school are obliged to keep a record of what level your child is working at by law. They will be doing it because it actually forms part of the teachers performance management review.

 

Knowing that they've got it, now you just need to insist that they share it :lol:

 

For my son the information actually appears on his annual review summary after the review meeting. So you could check there, but failing that write to the Headteacher and ask for the information or reasons why it cannot be provided. Quote the Freedom of Information Act.

 

HTH

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Zemanski...

 

it was so bad the governors have had to investigate Com's time at the school, and we have had to threaten legal action more than once

 

finally, in September they put in the provision we asked for and it's working (well, not entirely, he did have an informal exclusion today :wallbash: )

 

There is no such thing as an 'informal exclusion'. They are either excluding or they're not! If they are there is a procedure to follow, including giving you the right to appeal against the decision to exclude, and this you should be given to you in writing at the time.

 

LKS, request the information in writing. There should be no reason why they should not share this information with you, no reason at all. As for the SENCO dodging the issue it ought to be a part of the IEP and/or statement (if you have one) process. How can you judge whether the IEP is working, for example, if you have nothing to quantify it against? ###### ridiculous. Let's hope the SEN officer sorts it.

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Thanks guys. When they told me that daughter was working at year 1 level, I did ask them if that meant she was no longer working towards level 1(which I think is what the P levels mean am I right?)The Senco said well children work at different levels in each year :wacko::wacko::wacko::wacko: You see we go round and round in circles sometimes. Do you know the I.E.Ps that she has done for my children in the past have been sooo bad that the headteacher has stepped in and devised them himself. This is the person that the E.P. thinks is doing everything possible for my daughter and cannot learn anything from outreach support. The senco is not a specialist teacher though is she. In our last report from the governors the chair said that our school has 'opened its doors' to another school to show them the high standard of SEN support that they offer, god help them ! The report that I received after the annual review, in the bit that said national curriculum attainment levels, it was blank. When I asked the head why he said it was very hard to test my daughter, the SN officer seemed perfectly happy with this answer. I am not asking for the unreasonable am I, I just want to know exactly how my daughter is getting on. As I've said I do have a rough idea so I'm not going to flip when they tell me. The SALT recently phoned me to say how peased she was at how daughter was getting on in school, but she said the Senco told her that they are really worried at how far she is behind academically. One final thing about this Senco, daughter is in year 4 now but last week the Senco went off to an exhibition to see if there were any resources she could get as they didn't really have any at school :angry: . Sorry to waffle. Zemanski reading your post worries me you are such a together person and so good at putting your point across, you must know more than most what your child needs and yet you still have problems. Why are they so scared to share information

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Well I'm still waiting for information. The SN officer hasn't replied and the Senco won't give me the info unless I go into see her. As I've explained If she gives me the information, which I'm 99% sure I will understand I can then discuss it with friends and a family member who are all involved in education.( and with all of you :devil: )THEN if I have any queries I can get back to her. She said I still prefer that you come in and see me :angry::angry::angry: . The day she could see me I wasn't available, one of the days I'm free and my friend who is going to come in with me is free she couldn't make it :wacko: What really annoys me about this person is that she didn't think to explain my son's attainment levels(he is statemented) and very clever and I managed to work out that certain letters after certain levels meant very secure, secure or insecure in a subject. It seems to me that they don't value my daughter's achievments in the same way. This is driving me nuts now :wallbash::wallbash:

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Hello LKS,

 

You know what your rights are with reference to accessing information held on your daughter, please don't let the Senco bully you into meeting with her. Have you considered making a formal complaint to the headteacher about the Senco's inaction/non-compliance to your written reqest?

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Thanks Helen. You are right this is what the senco does to me all of the time bullies me, and I hadn't realised it until now. Her attitude to me is one of the main reasons I become so upset. I have been copying the head on all my correspondance with the senco so he should know what is going on. I have had to have parent partnership go into school with me before as the way they deal with parents is not always the best.

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One letter quoting the Freedom of Information Act asking for a copy of his entire file. State that if you had been provided with the information you had asked for this step would not be necessary. Make them aware of the time deadline for providing it.

 

This kind of run around is designed to wear you down.

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LKS,

 

It seems to me that the Senco is letting this become personal, she sounds as if she's determined to win you over - a battle of wills(?)

 

I don't know if I've suggested this to you before - your LEA ought to hold within its SEN department duplicate information of your daughter's school/SEN file. You could write to the LEA and ask to view (and photocopy if necessary) this information.

 

Good luck.

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You have every right to ask for this information in writing. They have no reasonable excuse not to give it to you. I suggest that a formal letter of complaint is now due to the head demanding that this information is supplied within 'X' days or you will be forced to take this matter to a higher authority (you don't have to say who). CC this to the CoG for their information. Forget the SENCo she has buggered you around long enough, yu've asked for the levels your daughter is currently attaining - you haven't asked her to give you the reasons for this. Cut her out of the loop!

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I wrote to the head on Friday asking to see a copy of my daughters file including her Sen one. I copied the COG and my SN officer at the LEA. I reminded them that I would expect a reply within 15 days. Today there was a note in my daughter's home/school organiser from the Senco asking if I would be free to come in for the meeting I didn't have time for before, on the 1st December :angry::angry::wallbash: Honestly she is really beginning to wear me down. Also she asked me to reply to this note in the organiser book which is a bit fishy as the head obviously doesn't get to see this. I can't believe that just asking for a simple, supposedly readily available bit of information could cause such a problem. :wacko: Please give me some ideas how to reply!

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Hi, how about:

Dear xxxxxx,

Thank you for your note dated xxx in my daughter's organizer. I have already informed the school that I am unable to meet with you on Dec 1st. In view of the fact that I have been waiting for the information regarding my daughter's attainment levels for xx days, I would now prefer to have this info in writing as I am legally able to do according to.....

Thanking you for your time and consideration in this matter and I look forward to hearing from you along with the information by (date) as this is the legal 15 day limit for reply.

Yours xxxx

 

cc Head, COG

 

Of course this is nothing like I would like to write!! Love Kat

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Hi LKS,

 

Katkin has provided you with a really nice friendly response...

 

I, on the other hand don't feel so friendly towards your Senco because she's really beginning to wind me up now, :angry::angry:

 

From my POV enough is enough. If I were you I'd cut her out of the equation altogether. You could tell her "Thank you for your concern, the matter now lies with the headteacher."

 

You've tried to work with this woman, yet she has been determined not to comply with your request.

 

Do you think the head will comply with your request? Put the onus on the head to provide you with the information you want. I don't think he'd enjoy receiving a formal complaint being made against him for an issue that is supposed to be so straight forward.

 

I'm guessing that the Senco wants your written comments so that she can have your comments photocopied for their own records - always be careful what you write about in the home/school book.

 

Good luck.

Edited by Helen

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Dear XXXX (Head),

 

despite repeated verbal and written requests concerning my child's educational attainment levels I have still not been supplied with the information I have requested.

 

I am also now fully aware that this information is now available. I do not, as offered, wish to meet with Miss/Mrs/Ms XXXX (SENCo) to discuss this. I simply wish to have the information supplied to me.

 

May I refer you to section 5 paragraph 45 of the SEN CoP. Also please acknowledge my rights to this information as described in section 5 paragraph 47 of the same document which states:

 

 

(I refuse to spoil this for you...go and look it up. Be prepared to grin!)

 

I would like to draw your attention to the last line in particular. Therefore I expect to have the information I have requested supplied forthwith.

 

 

LKS.

 

 

 

cc:CoG LEA MP (CIA and the FBI too if it helps!)

Edited by phasmid

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Sect 5.45:

 

If a child's class teacher in consultation with the parents concludes thata child may need further support to help their progress, the teacher should seek the help of the SENCo. The teacher and the SENCo should consider the teacher's reasons for concern alongside any information about the child already available to the school.

 

Bold highlights are mine. This reads the teacher should be sharing their concerns with you (and vice versa) and liasing these concerns with the SENCo.

 

Sect 5.47:

 

The SENCo should take the lead in the further assessment of the child's particular strengths and weaknesses; planning future support for the child in discussion with colleagues; and monitoring and subsequently reviewing the action taken. The childs class teacher should remain reponsible for working with the child on a dialy basis and for planning and delivering an individualised programme. Parents should always be consulted AND KEPT INFORMED of the action taken to help the child, and of the outcome of this action.

 

Bold and caps are mine - the result is they have not complied with this!! So, remind them of it!!!

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When I had problems with my son's head of year and I wasn't getting anywhere with her, in the end I cut her out of the loop and wrote to the Head of Lower School and Principal of the college. Worked great! Minor improvements were made almost within a week, and communication started from then on, they finally involved the ed psych, agreed to assessment (well no, had done that already behind their backs myself) but at least mentioned that they couldn't more without him being assessed (even though this Head Of Year I bypassed in the end had been so obstructive about all of that...), so they at last acknowledged he had special needs.

If I had stuck to that woman....... :fight::fight::fight:

 

Go for it LKS, leave her out altogether and go straight to the boss!

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Thank you all again. I like the bit that says the childs class teacher should remain responsible for working with the child on a daily basis and for planning and delivering an individualised programme. Strange, as the head once told me that the level of differentation required for my daughter was over and beyond what could be expected of a class teacher :wacko: Therefore the Senco spends 2 and a half hours per week planning her lessons. At the last annual review the C.T. hardly said a word and left the talking to the L.S.As

It is a real pity that my 'relationship' with the senco has gotten so bad. It started when I asked why parents didn't get a copy of the I.E.P and then asked why one of my daughter's targets was to improve handwriting(funny that same as my sons :wallbash: Then she grabbed me in the corridor one day and said she was going to have a word with son as he appeared to have a vendetta against another child. Further investigation found that my son was a victim of bullying, which had seen his behaviour at school worsen to such a degree for 5 weeks that the head was on the point of suspending him. (he cant even get the right terminology :angry: ) Had they bothered to tell me, no.PP have told me that this Senco does not have a very nice manner! which is hard for those of us who have to deal with her on a regular basis. I'm sorry to rant again but I have offered to meet her after I have received the information if I think it is necessary.

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It is a real pity that my 'relationship' with the senco has gotten so bad. It started when I asked why parents didn't get a copy of the I.E.P and then asked why one of my daughter's targets was to improve handwriting(funny that same as my sons :wallbash:

Hello LKS,

 

There will always be the odd Senco or two who'll view parental intervention/contribution as a challenge to their status/ a challenge to their authority.

 

You're doing well girl, keep it up >:D<<'>

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Thanks Helen I really value the support that I am getting here. This woman is really getting me down. I have sent the letter quoting the bits that Phas mentioned, so the ball is in their court(again)I know that I am terribly cynical now but it wouldn't surprise me one bit if the Senco was going through the file, tarting up the bits that should be there and loosing the bits she doesn't want me to see :lol: Of course that wouldn't happen would it

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Thanks Phas, I shall have a look anyway. At last I have received a reply to the letter I handed in today. Head writes Dear Mrs. ***** thank you for your letter received today. I have been able to speak to both the C.T and the Senco and extracted the centrally held documents and these are now available in school for you to see. Please contact the school secretary to arrange a convenient time. there will be a charge of 45p per copy and we will supply post-it notes for you to attach to the required sheets. At b****y last :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap: Why on earth they have been so awkward I do not know, perhaps I will find out when I view the files :devil: Thank you all for keeping me going I really felt like just giving up sometimes >:D<<'>

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Well done LKS, don't give up, you've won so far and done well. Have a glass of wine, watch something mindless on tv and gather strength for the next round! Love Kat

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45p a copy! Flipping cheek. They are supposed to be allowed to make a reasonable charge only. The going rate in most places is 5p per A4 sheet. A trip to the bank might be in order to get a twenty pound note changed. Your bag might be heavy for a while but they're the ones who are going to have to waste time counting it out penny by penny (you will of course have counted it out into 45p bags to save you time and then emptied them out a page worth at a time).

 

Just goes to show persistance pays off in the end. Start quoting Education Acts and SEN CoP at them...when they know you know your'e stuff they back off!

 

Well done LKS!

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LKS, some good news at last! :thumbs: , ;) although the photocopying does sound pricey.

 

These two links provide information on subject access fees:

 

http://www.yourrights.org.uk/your-rights/c...rds/index.shtml

 

http://www.ico.gov.uk/cms/DocumentUploads/...n%20england.pdf

 

... but perhaps you should contact The Information Commissioner's Office for more updated information.

 

I don't know about you, but if there's one thing I hate, it's when someone tries to make a fast buck at my expense. If the above information is (to date) correct, then if I were you I would even challenge the school's photocopying fees.

Edited by Helen

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Hi Helen thanks for that info. Spoke to someone at the information commissioners office today and they confirmed that the charge should be �1 for the first 20 pages plus a further �1 for every subsequent 10 pages. She doesn't know where the school would have got this 45p figure from but its not legal. Have just rattled off a nice short reply to the head informing him of what I had found out, copy to the COG and the LEA of course :devil: God I bet they hate me. Also got a reply finally from the head of inclusion at the LEA. It says I can confirm that the school are not providing the LEA with any additional info. which has not been given to you. I understand that **** levels were discussed at the annual review in June 2005 and the school judged her to be functioning between level P8 and level 1 of the national curriculum. This was a verbal discussion and recorded in notes made by the SN officer(well I'm 100% sure this wasn't discussed and if it was they waited until I had gone) It wasn't recorded in the minutes I took or the ones prepared by the school. It ends I have requested on your behalf that a written report of **** levels and progress be sent to you. I hope this answere your query. Well yes it does really :devil: I hope they ask themselves how much time and effort we have all wasted to get to this stage :angry:

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:lol: Well done LKS. there is a Nelson Mandela quote about climbing a great hill only to find that there are many more hills to climb.

 

Let's call this a hillock.

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Going in to see the sen files today. I'm sure tea and biscuits will be provided :lol: Still waiting for the report that the SN officer asked the school to provide. I am positive they will hand me one today :wacko:

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