My observation: a reminder

[mossgrove]

LizK

 

It sounds like your husband and I are very alike.

 

Things that our Autistic Boys do make more sense to me, but paradoxically it took me lomger to realise/accept the extent of the difficulties they were facing, for example being much slower to realise that they were going to cope at mainstream school jus because I had muddled through somehow.

 

In particular I was slow to recognise that J (8, Aspergers) has difficulties that are similar to mine when I was growing up, but they are not the same. J has Asperges, I have aspie traits and life in mainstream was far harder for him than I realised.

 

 

Simon

[ceecee]

Mossgrove

 

i would suspect that you and I are fairly alike in that we recognise we have aspie traits rather than full blown aspergers.thats why i say i have mild aspergers.But perhaps what I should say is I have aspie traits.I too went to a mainstream school and that was no problem and exactly right for me.Though i was painfully shy.

[KarenM]

I can see a point here . Although my daughter has loads of problems I am greatful she has aspergers not severe autism so she would be cut off from the world wear nappies and be unable to speak . I think it is also much more comforting when your child has just been diagnosed to think off their problems as mild . I asked does she have AS mildly is she borderline aspergers . I hope I don't offend anyone here . Karen

Edited December 7, 2005 by KarenM

[Lucas]

It should be noted that in all the printed definitions of Autism and Asperger's Syndrome, the only difference between the two is a "Clinically Significant Speech-Delay" present in Autism but not in AS. This is generally accepted to be speech developing later than the age of three, as mine was yet I still recieved the AS diagnosis based on the high/low functioning dogma which has no place in science.

 

First thing to remember: Speech is not the same thing as Communication. All Autistics communicate, drawing invisible lines dividing them based on how they communicate is non-scientific, hence there is an issue of objectivity in the speech-delay clause because it is drawing an invisible line. If someone says the difference between the two DXs is speech, then they must provide a common explaination for why some use speech and others don't. Hence it being called an invisible line.

 

Second, Kanner described Autism just a year before Asperger did and if there was a significant and scientifically-valid means of showing they were not in fact the same, then their two descriptions would have been utterly different. Kanner never said that any of his patients couldn't talk, he used the term "atypical speech", which would have also fitted Asperger's group.

 

So why are Autistics so apparently different from each other? The answer should be in Kanner's follow-up: in all the cases that were looked at to see how they did, their success was not at all determined by their assumed level of functioning, but the oppotunities provided to them.

 

Often the "Autism is a child-snatching disease" crowd will ask me at this point about what follow-ups were done of Asperger's patients. There were none; Vienna was occupied by the Nazis at the time unfortunately and Asperger's practice was bombed by Allied planes killing a nurse and some unknown patients. It's thought that the children were placed in the Nazi programme to eliminate 'defectives' for the good of the state, no one to my knowledge has ever looked for survivors. Asperger joined the resistence movement in Europe and fought against the Axis soon after.

 

Another theory is that the reason why Asperger recognised positive traits in Autistics where Kanner for the most part didn't focus on them(though acknowledged they were there, even if left out of his initial writings); Asperger tried to redeem the children to save them from the Nazis, so he of course would have been actually looking for strengths instead of weaknesses. Going against the prejudice of pathologised conditions which exists even today.

Edited December 8, 2005 by Lucas

[Kathryn]

Hi Lindap, welcome to the forum. We love a good debate here, but your opening comments have I think touched a raw nerve with a lot of people as many of the parents on here spend their lives battling professionals who insist that their child's condition is so "mild" that they do not need support. If you read some of the threads in Education you'll see what I mean.

 

Everything I wanted to say has mostly been said already, really well. As my daughter was only diagnosed with AS 18 months ago, I am still learning myself. All I can say is that I have seen her functioning at all levels in the past year. She is frequently articulate, extremely knowledgeable about her favourite subjects and talented in several areas, and yet a few months ago when she was severely depressed her behaviour became more autistic. She spent weeks when she was completely mute and unresponsive, her main activity was bending the pages of books, watching shiny objects and endlessly spinning, and there was one memorable day when she was squeezing syrup onto the dining table and giggling at the patterns it made - oblivious to the mess. This has convinced me that we are talking about a continuum here rather than fixed categories.

[Minxygal]

I suspect and have done for the last 3 or 4 years that many of the people who diagnose themselves, whether they are a parent or not, aren't in actual fact on the spectrum.

 

 

I agree. I think the thing is we live such structured, such routined lifestyles that we often find ourselves getting irritable when people aren't punctual and that sort of thing. Also for many of us we live such issolated lives and we suffer so many confidence knocks is it any wonder that we often feel out of our depth in social situations and feel threatened in new places. I also think that as parents, we learn to accept that it's ok to be different and perhaps from that we learn to allow ourselves to be a little more individual and ourselves more. I suppose this could be interpreted as us being 'different'. My life is definitely different to the lifestyles of many of the people who live around me.

 

If you asked me have I got autistic traits I would say yes, but as our kids learn from us in some cases we learn from them as we learn to live with the same routines. Yes I have what could be perceived as autistic traits, but these are learned behaviours, learned from spending 24/7 with two autistic children.

Edited December 8, 2005 by Minxygal

[Tez]

I suspect and have done for the last 3 or 4 years that many of the people who diagnose themselves, whether they are a parent or not, aren't in actual fact on the spectrum.

 

I think that we have to be careful here. I accept that the word "many" is used allowing that some are, and I'm sure that some people who self diagnose might not be on the spectrum, but I equally believe that a lot are. You have to remember that recognition of AS is a relatively recent thing and that most adults growing up prior to the 1990s would not have even been considered. Also many people with an autistic condition would find it very difficult to approach a doctor for help and would find the diagnosis process very difficult to go through and at the end of it would not necessarily receive any benefit or support.

[DAS999]

My girlfriend has a numbers thing, things have to be on an odd or even number (depending on what they are). Now everyone in our house puts them on an odd/even number without thinking about it they also know about the plate and cup ritural and preform this. Setting the table out in the same odd way every meal time. People pick up on other peoples trates. I don't think there is one person I know who doesn't have the odd few autistic trates but, hay that is life we learn from each other and pick things up that we will do forever just because someone else does. People never use to wear clothes in the stone age but most people do now. would you dream of walking down the road naked? I doubt it but people use to think nothing of it. We have copied someone and it has grown from there. Autistic trates can be picked up by anyone and as ASD is a spectrum who determins where the top and bottom ends are? We could all be on it couldn't we?

[ceecee]

I agree with you Tez.Some adults who self diagnose will be on the spectrum, some won't and some will have tendancies of aspergers or autism.

[mossgrove]

I suspect and have done for the last 3 or 4 years that many of the people who diagnose themselves, whether they are a parent or not, aren't in actual fact on the spectrum.

 

 

I agree. I think the thing is we live such structured, such routined lifestyles that we often find ourselves getting irritable when people aren't punctual and that sort of thing. Also for many of us we live such issolated lives and we suffer so many confidence knocks is it any wonder that we often feel out of our depth in social situations and feel threatened in new places. I also think that as parents, we learn to accept that it's ok to be different and perhaps from that we learn to allow ourselves to be a little more individual and ourselves more. I suppose this could be interpreted as us being 'different'. My life is definitely different to the lifestyles of many of the people who live around me.

 

If you asked me have I got autistic traits I would say yes, but as our kids learn from us in some cases we learn from them as we learn to live with the same routines. Yes I have what could be perceived as autistic traits, but these are learned behaviours, learned from spending 24/7 with two autistic children.

Minxygal

 

Your situation seems different from mine in that I was much more 'Autistic' when growing up but I have learned to deal with/understand things in adulthood that many 'NT' people seemed to grasp in their teens, which seems the reverse of what you describe. Some parents may develop Autistic Traits as a learned behaviour, but my Autistic Traits were there in force before I had children or knew Autism existed.

 

I accept that there are self-diagnosed Aspies who simply have traits, but I agree with Tez that we have to be careful we don't make unwarranted assumptions about people who may well be on the spectrum. As she rightly points out, almost all of the parents on this forum went through the school system at a time when Aspergers/HFA was not diagnosed/understood. For example, I started school in 1970, my eldest son (AS) in 2001, a lot changed in that time. Had my son started school when I did he would have been labelled as 'difficult' and dealt with accordingly, I am not sure how hard people would have looked for an underlying cause.

 

Simon

[ceecee]

Mossgrove

 

Exactly many parents on this forum who suspect they may have As or As traits went through the school system when Aspergers High functioning Autism was not heard of or diagnosed and would have been labelled wierd, odd, difficult, disruptive, shy etc.Or if there really unlucky the whole lot of them

 

I sincerely hope that things have dhanged for the better and that there is more recognition in schools today than there was then.

 

I certainly did not learn or copy any autistic asperger traits from my children because I am lucky enough not to have any children on the spectrum.Though i have every sympathy for the parents on this forum. <'> <'> <'>

Edited December 8, 2005 by ceecee

[bid]

Welcome Lindap,

 

It isn't a competition to see whose child is 'most disabled'.

 

Difficulties can differ between children, but still all be severe.

 

I would be careful...you don't want to say to a parent of a child with AS 'At least your child can speak', because the reply could easily be 'At least your child hasn't made repeated suicide attempts'

 

Bid

[nellie]

For example, I started school in 1970, my eldest son (AS) in 2001, a lot changed in that time. Had my son started school when I did he would have been labelled as 'difficult' and dealt with accordingly, I am not sure how hard people would have looked for an underlying cause.

 

School life has changed dramatically since we were children. Would those adults have coped so well if they had been educated in todays school environment?

 

Nellie xx

[Elefan]

Nellie,

 

 

Maybe one day we should share our story of our childrens school experiences, without names and places? With the time gap, etc.

 

It is rare to have such an example I think.

 

Sorry everyone for speaking in riddles.

 

Elefan

xx

[Viper]

Mild as defined in the dictionary:- Not strongly flavoured. Gentle, temperate.

 

My son has physically abused all members of our immediate family, shouts screams, kicks, punches, bites, scratches, pinches, threatens to kill us and has many melt downs every day. He still uses a nappy to poo in, can't go to school, won't eat meat, vegetables or fruit and what he does eat has to be prepared in a certain way.

 

If that fits the definition of mild from the dictionary then yes he is mild.

 

I think if you choose one person from this forum and read their everyday life from all their postings you may get some idea of what an AS child is really like.

 

I like others who have posted, wonder if Lindap is baiting us, light the blue touch paper and stand well back. Fortunately the people on the forum have handled themselves with comendable dignity and we all value each other and everyones oppinion, we are all very open and willing to debate anything thrown at us.

 

Viper.

[oracle]

I was talking to our Director for Inclusion and Achievement the other day (No this is not the lead line to a joke or a name drop ) He rang me and we got round to discussing provision for our children. He actually said what I have thought for some time now. Years ago when AS was not even recognised by most never mind diagnosed, the school sytem was very different to the way it is today. For starters there were not the huge Comprehensive Schools that we have now. He feels that there were children with AS but because of the structure of the system, which was pretty rigid, our children somehow managed to get through. I agree with him about this (Sadly only this )

 

I have an Uncle who I personally believe has AS. My Mum tells me that he hated school and that my Grandmother had some really tough times with him, but he made it through to the other side of the system. Likewise with work, although eventually after the Shipyards closed and his routine had gone he did have a breakdown. I also have a Cousin (more of less my age) again he was never a big fan of school, he escaped on more than one occassion, but finally settled and made it through. Sadly for my Cousin he has never managed to hold down a job.

 

This makes me believe that the change in pace in Society has not been the right change for people with AS. We are very much under pressure to perform and achieve from the cradle to the grave.

 

Sermon over soory

 

Carole

[call me jaded]

Schafer had this in it today (or yesterday):

 

The fragile state of boyhood

 

BY RICK MONTGOMERY

 

Knight Ridder Newspapers

 

 

KANSAS CITY, Mo. - Here, sadly, is where boys rule:

 

Learning disorders. Dropout rates. Violence. Stuttering. Obesity. Gambling and video game fixations.

 

School suspensions. Hyperactivity. D's and F's and general disengagement, despite medication to sharpen attention.

 

In the above matters, boys outnumber girls 2-to-1, at least. Within the swelling ranks of kids deemed autistic or dyslexic, it's 4-to-1. Suicide, 5-to-1.

 

As for violence, the numbers have always been boy-crazy: Males make up about 90 percent of all juvenile arrests for violent crimes, and boys are 10 times more likely than girls to be the victims.

 

To be sure, a mostly healthy sea of young males still shimmers with honor students, scholarship athletes, great artists, writers, musicians and champs at chess and science fairs. They're happy, eager for the future. And unless career trends radically shift, our sons likely will benefit from economic inequities that tend to turn against our daughters when they grow up.

 

Yet boys, girls, parents, teachers, counselors, principals, psychologists and juvenile court workers voiced common concern to The Kansas City Star: It's not always so awesome being a boy, beyond age 9 or so. They're moodier and more breakable than we once thought.

 

"Boys are in trouble," says Harvard clinical psychologist William Pollack, who co-direct s McLean Hospital's Center for Men in Belmont, Mass. "And it's not just boys with AK-47s out on the streets who are dropping out, struggling, angry at the world.

 

"We're talking about the boy next door."

 

Gender gaps in achievement are widest, and growing wider, in low-income and minority communities, where girls now double boys heading to college. But even in plush suburbs, the worry about boys arises daily.

 

Many more girls than boys tell pollsters they think they're overweight. But federal health surveys show many more boys really are.

 

This year first lady Laura Bush, mother of two daughters, flagged boys as a demographic in crisis. At a recent White House conference, she highlighted their struggles and the need for involved fathers.

 

She and others pointing out problems also see hopeful signs. For boys as well as girls, rates of teen suicide, violent crime, drug use and dropping out have fallen in the past 15 years. Test scores on most subjects are climbing. Community programs to promote better fathering sprout nationwide.

 

Where such progress has been charted, however, gains tend to be more dramatic for girls, while boys seem stuck in place_especially in education. On college campuses, female Americans have outnumbered males for the last quarter-century.

 

Johnny's troubles - and how to fix them - spread across a cultural minefield.

 

Even the adage "boys will be boys" is charged: Can't we "soften" them, as the latest books on boyhood urge - or do we harm them by messing with their nature?

 

At least one guide for teachers, "101 Ways to Empower a Girl," suggests making no excuses for unruliness among boys: "Get `boys will be boys' out of your vocabulary."

 

Feminist groups such as the Ms. Foundation are calling on society to "reconstruct masculinity." They say tough, traditional codes compel too many boys to turn to aggression, hide their feelings, reject school as uncool and race through childhood.

 

"Every boy has heard it: `Be a man!'" says eighth-grader Jonathan Routh in his English class in Kansas, where a discussion of gender issues fills an hour. "Am I right, guys?" and they agree.

 

Others argue that boys have fallen prey to those forces bent on "vilifying masculinity."

 

"Just let our boys be boys," says Gwyn Hunley, whose son agonized for years over his studies before graduating from high school in 2004. "Let them make all the mistakes they want, you know?"

 

Surveys show that today's boys, maybe as a result of restrictive environments, are less apt than girls to take leadership roles in school governments or newspapers. "I'd never given it much thought, but I'm the student body president and the vice president is female, too," says Simone Henry, a senior at a formerly all-boy school in Kansas City. "Even the popular and strongest athletes at Pembroke, I'd say, are female."

 

Boys who don't cluster at the top of academic and societal pecking orders - and plenty still do - often sink to the bottom.

 

"It seems clear that females get better grades than males in school in every subject," writes psychologist Diane Halpern in "Sex Differences in Cognitive Abilities." "Paradoxically, girls get better grades than boys even in (subjects) in which boys score higher on ability tests," such as advanced math.

 

In other scoring, national data reveal Johnny tends not to read as well as Jessica, or as much. He lags in language skills in most developed nations of the world.

 

Even boys doing well admit being confused about where they will land in a world of ever-shifting gender roles and low-paying McJobs. Some mourn for dads who left or never were around.

 

"I've never seen a picture of my father or anything," says Christian Spray, 17, a talented artist spending study hour in the cafeteria sketching the image of a woman with flaming hair. "I can't easily express my emotions; my troubles are too deep. I hold so many things in." Later, in an essay, Christian urges fathers to take responsibility for the sons they bring into the world.

 

Many other boys seem almost physically unable to meet schools' mounting expectations to multitask, read a lot, sit still, juggle daily planners and squeeze into their nights of video gaming enough homework to stay afloat.

 

Local adults who work with boys are increasingly familiar with those like Nate, 16. That's his name on Xanga, an Internet sounding board popular among teens willing to bare all to anyone who logs on.

 

Just another kid from a crowded high school, Nate recently introduced himself in his online journal as follows: "To those who live outside of the inner Nate, i seem truly stressless, but ... between school, homework, work and keeping everything sane in the household, i feel as though i should be 40 now."

 

Conrad writes: "I like to draw and generally be a loser."

 

David, a wrestler: "Dear God. Make everyone die. Amen."

 

In more than 20 years of working with grade-schoolers, "you see from time to time those boys who look so angry that, immediately, you feel sorry for them," says third-grade teacher Linda Horton. "I don't think I've ever seen that look in the girls."

 

Lawyer Arthur Benson, who for decades represented children in the desegregation lawsuit against Kansas City public schools, says, "Perhaps in building up girls these last several years, we took our eye off the boys."

 

Public anxieties about boys have shot up and down forever.

 

Sociologists cite the Industrial Revolution of the late 19th century as a tipping point for concerns that would build through later generations. Factory jobs took boys from family farms and trades, where they had worked closely with fathers.

 

The slur "sissy" dates to the start of the 20th century. A culture fearing for the future of masculinity gave rise to the Boy Scouts of America in 1905. A popular advice book of the era quickened the drumbeat to save the naturally scrappy lad: At school, only "if he fights more than, let us say, a half-dozen times a week (is he) probably over-quarrelsome."

 

When the hand-wringing wasn't over gender stereotypes, it was over political order.

 

The Depression fueled fears about small-town boys searching for work in the cities, where they might drift toward socialism or worse. "There was real concern we might get our own version of Hitler youth," says Stephen Mintz, author of "Huck's Raft: A History of American Childhood."

 

Davy Crockett caps of the 1950s symbolized broad efforts "to instill a male hero-worship in boys - done quite consciously," he says. G.I. Joe figures hit shelves in 1964. But then came an unraveling - a distrust of institutions of any kind - as young, stringy-haired men set fire to draft cards.

 

Boys got high with girls. Polls of the 1970s and 1980s showed most having sex in high school. Their parents drifted apart, however, as divorce reached new highs.

 

"Anything goes" gave way to an era of zero tolerance, warning stickers on raunchy albums and abstinence taught in class.

 

By century's end, those schoolyard fistfights allowed in the early 1900s seemed almost quaint. Urban gang warfare and suburban school shootings in the 1990s laid bare new mutations of boy rage.

 

The new century finds millions of schoolchildren stepping through metal detectors or subjected to random locker searches. And about 10 percent of boys age 12 are medicated for hyperactivity, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates.

 

Some blame a vacuum of strong role models in a boy's orbit. Some blame bad parenting.

 

Some blame violence in entertainment. Some blame schools that are too large, underfunded and failing to teach skills that really matter in life and work.

 

Some blame a culture of control.

 

"We've created social environments not very tolerant of (impulsive) behavior," says Mintz. "We demand more discipline. We're making kids sit in school for longer hours, with shorter summer breaks. We've cut recess 40 percent. You want a recipe for boys bouncing off the walls? That's it."

 

The eighth-graders in Martha Howard's English classes are about 13, too young to know a different time.

 

Indian Hills Middle School in Prairie Village, Kan., produces some of the highest scores of public schools in the region. Last spring, 22 percent of students scored "exemplary" in reading - nearly double the Kansas average. But a gender breakdown reveals that of those in the exemplary range, the number of girls was twice the number of boys.

 

Twice as many boys as girls scored "basic" or below.

 

The boys posted top scores, however, in social studies and science at Indian Hills. It is the sought-after suburban school on a rolling lawn, winner of a national award for its 2004 mock elections.

 

Yet even here, the kids agree: Something's eating at boys. One has "HATE" written in black marker on his knuckles.

 

A girl can't believe "my stepbrother wrote a report on Warcraft!" the video game.

 

Another boy, Kaevan Tavakolinia, speaks thoughtfully about his peers wrapping themselves in a macho cool, dismissing any desire to impress teachers.

 

"I can't even say I enjoy the company of a lot of boys - we operate on ego so much."

 

And impulse.

 

By 13, psychologists say, a boy's self-identity is well rooted. But the frontal lobe of his brain still needs another decade of development, perhaps two decades, to ward off immature impulses.

 

In Howard's class, impulse makes "guys blurt out answers whether they're called on or not," says Beck Johnson from his desk. "The girls want to be called on."

 

Impulse also draws more boys than girls to Texas Hold `Em, a popular poker game outside of class.

 

Asked how many in the class had put down a money bet, 11 of the 12 boys raise their hands, eliciting slight gasps from adults. Only three girls put their hands up. One boy jokes of losing $175 on the Super Bowl and "seeing the shock on my mom's face. Priceless."

 

That's the impulsive part of a boy's brain firing - taking risks as a means "to escape, to relieve boredom, to diminish sadness, to feel in control and less shy," says California psychologist Durand Jacobs, a pioneer in the emerging study of youth gambling.

 

In fact, neurologists see parallels between the serotonin rushes that excite problem gamblers - an out-of-body sensation where time seems to shrink - and the brain impulses of boys (and girls) playing long hours on video games.

 

"Video games are just so cool," says a new voice, usually quiet - a good student - from the center of class.

 

His hands curl into fists: "You don't know how often I come home angry.

 

"And maybe I want to hit my brother because of something that happened at school. I'll go into the basement and play video games for an hour or two and be so completely relieved of all that stress and anger."

 

Some of the boys nod. One girl nods, too.

 

"Then I hit my brother," he says, and everybody laughs

[mossgrove]

For example, I started school in 1970, my eldest son (AS) in 2001, a lot changed in that time. Had my son started school when I did he would have been labelled as 'difficult' and dealt with accordingly, I am not sure how hard people would have looked for an underlying cause.

 

School life has changed dramatically since we were children. Would those adults have coped so well if they had been educated in todays school environment?

 

Nellie xx

That is an excellent question, and I really wish I could answer it!

 

There are two conflicting forces at work here. I think the social pressures on children today are greater than they have ever been, and the amount of structure in day-to-day life is lower than it has ever been. This is not good for Autistic Children.

 

There is however the fact that there is a far greater understanding of Autism and how it can present itself, and there is understanding and support out there in a way that simply didn't exist 30 years ago.

 

The Special school that our boys go to has existed for less than 20 years, and up until 8 years ago only dealt with children with MLD. It is certainly the case that our boys are happier, more confident and easier to be around than before they went to special school, whther this will translate to better outcomes later in life is the unanswered question, the answer is more important to us as parents than almost anything else I can think of, but I really don't know the answer.

 

Simon

[Minxygal]

I suspect and have done for the last 3 or 4 years that many of the people who diagnose themselves, whether they are a parent or not, aren't in actual fact on the spectrum.

 

 

I agree. I think the thing is we live such structured, such routined lifestyles that we often find ourselves getting irritable when people aren't punctual and that sort of thing. Also for many of us we live such issolated lives and we suffer so many confidence knocks is it any wonder that we often feel out of our depth in social situations and feel threatened in new places. I also think that as parents, we learn to accept that it's ok to be different and perhaps from that we learn to allow ourselves to be a little more individual and ourselves more. I suppose this could be interpreted as us being 'different'. My life is definitely different to the lifestyles of many of the people who live around me.

 

If you asked me have I got autistic traits I would say yes, but as our kids learn from us in some cases we learn from them as we learn to live with the same routines. Yes I have what could be perceived as autistic traits, but these are learned behaviours, learned from spending 24/7 with two autistic children.

Minxygal

 

Your situation seems different from mine in that I was much more 'Autistic' when growing up but I have learned to deal with/understand things in adulthood that many 'NT' people seemed to grasp in their teens, which seems the reverse of what you describe. Some parents may develop Autistic Traits as a learned behaviour, but my Autistic Traits were there in force before I had children or knew Autism existed.

 

I accept that there are self-diagnosed Aspies who simply have traits, but I agree with Tez that we have to be careful we don't make unwarranted assumptions about people who may well be on the spectrum. As she rightly points out, almost all of the parents on this forum went through the school system at a time when Aspergers/HFA was not diagnosed/understood. For example, I started school in 1970, my eldest son (AS) in 2001, a lot changed in that time. Had my son started school when I did he would have been labelled as 'difficult' and dealt with accordingly, I am not sure how hard people would have looked for an underlying cause.

 

Simon

I'm sorry. I didn't want to give the impression that I thought everyone who was self diagnosing didn't have AS, the point I was trying to make is that sometimes when we live the lifestyle we do it's easy to see ourselves as becoming autistic.

 

When I was a girl in the junior school there was a boy who used to run around the class with his PE shorts on his head. Lokking at what I know about ASD and remembering the way he struggled to fit into our classroom I often wonder if he had AS.

[Hidden Gem]

I would say many people with mild triats of anything, are more a result of environment than a condition (give me a better word)

 

I don't consider basic shyness as as something wrong, it's just shy, someone who is more insular, likes their privacy, that is just the way some people are.

 

I was painfully shy as a child, becuase I was made to feel worthless. As soon as I started college and discovered friends, people, I changed, I was and still am a private person but I found the confidence in me.

 

What some people tend to do and unfortuantely you do see it here, is start to define a norm, an expectation of what people should be. Being shy, not fully understanding people, really does not mean anything wrong, does it. Just means you are different, crying at the strange times, that's just way we are. the forthcoming wife cries like a baby through Eastenders, rationally, broken down, is that natural? No, but that doe smean anything is wrong, of course not, we are just all different, we are all individual.

 

When I read of those families here, who have their very existence disrupted, then yes, I know and I can see their must be a problem.

 

My personality, as I disocvered when I sat in a class at 17 doing basic GCSE pyschology really did result from my upbring.

 

To be blunt, treat a child like cr*p and it will grow up cr*p.

 

I think the horrifc stories and tales on here show that a condition that is mild, any condition is not worth talking about. the poeple here fighting each day, know that it is serious and they need support.

 

I am very long sighted, wear glasses, do I join a 'blind forum?'

 

No becuase it is not that severe.

 

I was born into a topsey turvey environment, so I am a curious mixture of nature/nurture.

Edited December 8, 2005 by Hidden Gem

[laine]

Hi Lindlap, just read youre piece. Not sure what youre point is but it is youre opinion. Unfortunatley i have heard this all before from so called professionals etc and i dont mean, to be mean or disrespectful but youre attitude is what us parents and carers come across every day. Competion between whos child is worse etc i have not come across in this site. This site and the people are godsends.As a new member to this site i have gained knowledge and support.

 

Any way welcome and i do hope you continue with us

 

Laine

[ceecee]

I would say if someone is just shy then that in itself does not equal a diagnosis of AS mild or otherwise but if someone is shy has difficulties in areas of social emotional and communication which are the three main triads of impairement for Aspergers like I do then it could be probable that i have either mild aspergers or traits of aspergers.Someone has got to have more than one thing they do to say yes this person might have Aspergers.Someone who is emotional over a tv programme that is perfectly natural to me .

[Flora]

I've watched this thread with interest. I've read the originating post several times but refrained from responding (sat on my hands) because even though it bugged me for several reasons, I can't really believe that this person is genuine. They are either someone with too much time on their hands wanting to stir up some debate about something they know nothing about. Or they are an undercover LEA employee with an axe to grind.

 

If it's the first one then if we ignore them for long enough they'll go else where to cause trouble. If it's the second one ditto.

 

I have never, in all the years that I've been living with autism felt such sentiments myself or met them in a carer (we all know how our LEA's are crawling with people with that sort of attitude).

 

I'm not bashing the originator of this thread; but yes, I do find the sentiments lacking in genuine thought and the issuing of their advice gratuitous, for want of a better word.

 

Sorry all, I know the standard on here is to be welcoming and that everyone is entitlded to an opinion; I just don't think the function of this forum lends itself to the sort of opinion expressed in the originating post on this thread; it was inflamatory, and I suspect deliberately so.

 

Lauren

[LizK]

Sometimes think we are at risk overmedicalising society where everyone has to have a condition or label. Maybe in *some* cases having AS traits is just a variant of normal. After all many people have some sort of personality trait or another. I'm a bit of a control freak!

 

Lx

[alibaly]

I can't work the quote button out today, sorry

 

Tez, you replied

 

[i accept that the word "many" is used allowing that some are, QUOTE]

 

Yes, exactly.

 

But tying in with what Liz has just said, I would take it even one step further and say there are people who are just desperte to have syndrome, any syndrome, because the perceive it to be the 'in thing' to have.

 

I'll go and hide now

Edited December 8, 2005 by alibaly

[KarenM]

Maybe the poster has AS them selves after all genetics play a huge part and lack of empathy for other peoples feelings is a symptom again I do not wish to offend anyone I am just offering my opinion . Bid totally take your point karen

[barefoot wend]

Lindap

 

Welcome to the forum. How old is your son?

[mossgrove]

I can't work the quote button out today, sorry

 

Tez, you replied

 

[i accept that the word "many" is used allowing that some are, QUOTE]

 

Yes, exactly. 

 

But tying  in with what Liz has just said, I would take it even one step further and say there are people who are just desperte to have syndrome, any syndrome, because the perceive it to be the 'in thing' to have.

 

I'll go and hide now

I understand what you are tring to say.

 

The reason your line of reasoning makes me edgy is that roughly the same line of reasoning leads to teachers, care workers, other parents and all the rest deciding that our children are not Autistic at all, they are just suffering from neurotic parents who are deperate for their child to be given a label to excuse bad behaviour. We all know how much harm and upset that line of reasonong causes, usually based on something like 'he makes eye contact so he can't be autistic'

 

 

Simon

Edited December 8, 2005 by mossgrove

[DaisyProudfoot]

I can't work the quote button out today, sorry

 

Alibaly,

 

Highlight the piece you want and copy, and on the reply click on guided mode then quote, then paste, should work.

[ceecee]

To be honest I cannot believe that anyone would want As because it is the in thing to have.Most people who are aware they have As and the absolute distress and heartbreak it causes would prefer not to have it.Whilst I accept if i didn't have tendancies of it I wouldn't be me how much easier my life would be if I didnt have the areas of difficulty I have because of it.And yes I recognise upbringing and life experiences can also make someone have difficulties and goes to make up the person they are.

[alibaly]

Thank you Daisy, I think I only managed it by accident the other day.

 

Simon, I'm glad you understand what I am trying to say, I thought long and hard before posting. You make very valid points, points I had thought of myself, I still felt though that even allowing for shameful prefessionals etc the point could still be made.

 

CeeCee , no level headed person would want to label or diagnose themself with any syndrome or illness if it's not actually the case but the world isn't full of level headed people.

 

I hope this really long and boring post hasn't come across as being too long winded and that none of you have fallen asleep whilst reading it , its taken me ages to compose it given that I'm well aware it could be a very controversial point of view to have.

[Viper]

Anyone notice the one person missing from this debate is the person who started it?

 

Viper.

[laine]

Yeah i keep coming back to this one to see if this person has added any other comments to ours. Funny that things spring to mind such as stirring the ****. Any way we will see.

 

Laine

[littlenemo]

Anyone notice the one person missing from this debate is the person who started it?

 

Viper.

Yes. Someone earlier mentioned lighting a blue touchpaper and retiring

 

But the thing that really cheers me is that when I wandered round other AS forums I got really upset at the abuse and vitriol in so many of the posts. Yet here we have someone telling us that our kids' problems are VERY VERY (her caps) mild, and there's not an asterisk or a burst blood vessel to be seen

 

The folks here constantly amaze with their tolerance and thoughtfulness

 

Thanks all

 

(and lindap, if you're reading this, stop and find a more useful thread to read. However mild your son's AS, you and he will need help at some point, and this is the VERY VERY best place to find out about it)

[ceecee]

Yes where has Lindap gone???It makes you wonder doesn't it

 

Alibaly

 

I take your point the world is not full of level headed people.But anyone who makes a syndrome up like A.S. or Autism because it'sthe thing to have is very sad and one should question their reasoning.

 

My daughter was autistic for reaL after her mmr booster and anyone who wants to make something up because it's the thing to have wants to have seen her.I guarantee that it is not something they would want to have.

 

I am sorry but I pity anyone who wants to make something up because it's the thing to have.

Edited December 8, 2005 by ceecee

[Viper]

Little Nemo, it was me who mentioned the blue touch paper. Good to know someone reads my post.

 

I watched this thread with interest for a while and noticed the conspicuous(sp) abcence of Lindap, I have even tried to rearange the letters of her name to see if there is anything strange, then realised it is probably Linda P I then made a post to see if there was any reply, hence the blue touch paper comment, and still nothing.

 

If you are out there watching this thread Lindap and your intention was to stir up trouble then we have proved we are a solid group. If on the other hand you are genuine then please come and chat. You are more than welcome, as you can see we like a good debate.

 

Viper.

[TuX]

The often believed opinion that AS is very mild proves that there is still a lot of ignorance about AS.

AS can be profound or just meet the basic criteria,just because we can speak doesn't mean we have mild difficulties,not all of us have average-high IQs neither are all of us savants and able to look after ourselves & our own flats/houses or have a job.

AS is a spectrum and we are all individuals,don't judge us as clones.

[ceecee]

Exactly Tux A.S. is a spectrum disorder and we are all individuals. Well put

Edited December 9, 2005 by ceecee

[ray]

When I first read this post yesterday morning at work my immediate though was that this person was being deliberately provocative, I tend to see things like this at work, somebody will chuck a 'grenade' in just to get a reaction, with many and varied agendas. However, the thoughtful, rational, and mature responses from all the krism crew (yoh!) has further heightened my already immense respect for the people on this forum. Very fishy.

[reuby2]

The reason I find this forum good is that people do explore the issues and can debate in a positive way.We may all have differing opinions on things but here I have found that people treat each other online with respect and care.

 

I think this thread has actually been a positive experience as everyone showed what they are made of.

 

Thanks to everyone for being here!!!!