man who killed lauren in leigh

[rainbow queen]

i just was reading manchester evening news and noticed an article about man who killed that girl called lauren from leigh it said he was dx with AS

 

has anyone else seen it?

[DaisyProudfoot]

Here's the link

 

http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/men/news...und_guilty.html

 

Daisy

[littlenemo]

Interesting - it says he "was told he had AS". It doesn't say he had a dx, and surely if it had any bearing on the case, the defence would have mentioned it.

 

The scary part of the story is the list of psychopathic comments on the article - saying that he should be strung up/frying, etc.

As anyone but an idiot knows, the death penalty makes no difference to the number of people killed and is no deterrent. I suppose the supporters are just jealous - they want to get their jollies by watching someone die too!

[madmooch]

There goes more bad publicity for us

[ceecee]

These kind of stories make me feel uncomfortable.the majority of people with AS are unlikely to kill someone.In fact more so called 'normal' people commit crimes.

 

Dont worry next it will be people with A.S. kill people!!!

[barefoot wend]

What I hate is the way they always mention that the person has AS as if that's some sort of explanation.

 

They never say if the accused has dyslexia, is coloured, has brown hair, has a mole on his left arm, etc.

 

It really irritates me - and, yes, I think it's discriminatory!

[lindy-lou]

i agree, and while i agree the murder was right to be reported i dont see what significance the AS plays in it,people get murdered evreyday and no one thinks anything of it,all it does is fuel yet more ignorance and make people with AS out to be violent maniacs,really helping the cause isnt it!

[Suze]

.............this freaks me out.Firstly the murder of this young girl is dreadful!!!..........but reading on in the article to the link it brings up the other case of a young girl being murdered last year by a lad with AS.It worries me as it implies every person with a dx of AS could be capable of this type of crime , as if it goes with the dx.But how many NT people murder every day and the fact that they are NT is never brought up ...................

[alibaly]

I think if any person has used, as part of their defence, the fact they have ASD then its only fair it's made public knowlege.

 

We can't have it both ways.

[~Jonathan~]

This happened with Barry George, they made a big deal of the fact he had AS

[Auriel]

i think this case shows that those with AS are more likely to kill people

[Mother in Need]

My AS son can get very violent, though so far hasn't seriously hurt anyone. But yes, I can see it is possible.

I can almost imagine this young accused man playing with the younger girl and then go into meltdown and she just happened to be there maybe?

I also know that my son rarely remembers afterwards what happened and he will strongly deny that he has done something, becuase to him he hasn't done it as he can't remember it. Aspie reasoning.

The accused needs help in my opinion, and however horrible thing he has done, his AS IS a reason for it, and he needs help and understnading of his condition. which is not an illness but a neurological problem.

[~Jonathan~]

i think this case shows that those with AS are more likely to kill people

 

That is an ill-considered and dangerous statement to make, in my opinion. There are no statistics to back up that kind of statement. I would hazard a guess that the percentage of people in prison on charges of murder with AS are very low indeed.

[lindy-lou]

i think this case shows that those with AS are more likely to kill people

sorry but i dont agree with your statement at all,if a black man was found guilty of the crime would you say this shows that black men are more likely to kill people??

 

im not saying that someone with AS couldnt commit this type of crime as obviously they can,anyone can!!!if i look at my nephew who is 13,AS and has very violent emotional meltdowns,yes i can see he would be capable of lashing out during a meltdown when he's an adult and hurting or killing someone,and its a massive worry,but in this particular murder of the young girl,the crime was premeditated and he did some unspeakable things to her after he had killed her,now i know my nephew would never be capable of doing that,and thats the difference.

 

Who knows what makes someone a violent murderer?i dont know but il bet my bottom dollar its not because of their AS.

[Jester]

Sorry folks - Auriel was having an AS moment there and didn't write (because he assumed everyone would understand!) that he is referring to Luke Jackson's book that says he (Jackson) fears that - one day - the media will equate AS with mental illness.

 

As with so many of our AS kids pronouncements, no offence was intended! Auriel just thought we would all automatically understand and sense the irony.

 

sigh

 

Jester

[Auriel]

i belive my post has been misinterpreted, I was referring to the luke jackson book freaks geeks etc, where he states worry that the ignorant media would make similar claims over crime... I had made an assumtion with that post that the majority of the forum users would have read the said book.

[Auriel]

Damn jester got their first.

[elaine1]

yes i saw that too, another negative story.

[ceecee]

Motherinneed

 

Many people with A.S. have a poor short term memory which explains why your A.S. son often cant remember doing things therefore says he hasn't done them.

People with A.s. ofen have brilliant long term memories though but it is their short term memory that is affected.

 

I am lucky in that atlthough i have a.s. it appears very mild so I have a really good long term and short term memory.i thought I'd be greedy

 

It said in one of the papers that the fact he had A.S. wasnt used in his defence case but not sure if this is true or not

[Strange girl]

i belive my post has been misinterpreted, I was referring to the luke jackson book freaks geeks etc, where he states worry that the ignorant media would make similar claims over crime... I had made an assumtion with that post that the majority of the forum users would have read the said book.

I understood what you meant when I read it..

I often get misunderstood too by assuming people know where I am coming from and not realising I have to give more background information, or that people don't understand I am being flippant or ambiguous.. I mean well.

 

 

As for the story itself, it is the second related article I take most issue with. They say the reason why he murdered was because he had a background of AS? I am apalled at the inference that AS makes you predisposed to homicide. To connect two otherwise unrelated cases for the sake of using AS as a common denomonator for murder is ridiculous. It is a blatant manipulation of some peoples prejudice about AS. It is easy to frighten people with fear of the unknown and an easily misunderstood condition of AS is an easy target to play on some people's ignorance.. Even if AS played a part in these crimes, it is an unfair generalisation to insinuate that loners and people with AS are all dangerous latent murderers.

 

And God only knows where they were going when they said "he would record films on sky + at night and watch them during the day?" I also watch tv, play computer games and play with my pet. I watch the Simpsons and don't have many friends, I feel anxious in crowds.. I think I might fit the profile for killing someone

 

but just to be clear, I have no intentions of doing anything criminal anytime soon, despite what the papers say.

[Suze]

I agree strange girl, all those inferences made me angry.I had thought to complain about this as there was a link to post your thoughts..........Still this was a terrible crime and my heart goes out her her family.

[oracle]

I come late to this thread on this forum. But I have been following this story and participating on another group. I have to agree with Auriel the worrying thing here is the fact that, in my opinion, thre press are being primed to believe that AS and violence go hand in hand. Here is a post I made on the other group.

 

I am seriously worried that we are going to see more of this

happening in the press. So many of our young people are being 'made' to fit in

when quite clearly they do not, that after years of being forced to

fit in and cope, they this may eventually lead to them being unable

to cope any more. The needs of our young people are not being met.

The services they require do not exist.

 

My biggest fear for years now has been that society will turn on our

young people and adults with AS. The more cases like this which hit

the news the more people will believe that there is more likelihood

of someone with AS or autism being violent. And OK so NAS state that

this is not the case, but unless they back this statement up with

some vigorous campaigning for the services that are required, then

their statements will carry no more weight than Willy Wonker does in

his Chocolate Factory when he says to the children 'stop no don't'

We all know that the kids are going to anyway.

 

We have to feel so much for the family of the girl who was murdered.

But we must also find a way to stop people with AS being considered

to be a threat before the Government answer to the problem becomes a

lock em all up policy.

 

Carole

Edited December 19, 2005 by carole

[Suze]

Carole I agree completely, how can we stop this, it frightens me , that society could view our kids and family members a potential danger .

[kirstie]

This makes me feel very uneasy. My son is very aggressive and was classed at nursery as being a danger to himself and others, he has come a long way since and is doing well with behavioural interventions. I was so concerned at one point that i mentioned to some professional with CAHMS that i felt it was my job/duty to keep them imformed about his temper and theirs to try and help him better understand how to control himself because who knows what the future holds, god forbid it should be anything as dreadful as we have heard about in the media of late. They looked at me as though i was totally deranged paranoid and neurotic! It was only really when i had sat down and thought about another well publicised case and i thought to myself, "Where were the parents, where were the professionals who knew of such violent tendancies?" that i thought i should say something, after all as parents a lot of the time we don't automatically know how best to help our kids. We don't always know that to change the way we talk to our kids even can really help with situations. we need help too, and it isn't always forthcoming!

Anyway i hope that made a wee bit of sense??! My heart goes out to this family.

Take care,

Kirstie.

[mossgrove]

It is an awful situation.

 

The fact that he finished school at 13 and little or no support was coming his way is not good. If you have someone who (we presume) had difficulties recognising an managing his emotions and then give them no help in learning to manage their emotions, then there could well be adverse consequences. This isn't the same thing as saying this happened because he had aspergers, and none of this will help the family of the little girl who must be suffering terribly.

 

The James Bulger case happened here on Merseyside a few years ago, and asked society a number of difficult questions about what happens when society abdicates responsibilty for what is happening to children that are (in themselves) vulnerable who end up doing terrible things. In that case they blamed it on a video called 'Childs Play 2' and chose to ban that video rather than answering difficult questions about what happens when children grow up largely unsupported in a family where achoholism and violence towards vulnerable people is endemic and routine. Not that this justifies those terrible acts, but the question about why it happened is more complicated that simply dismissing those boys as evil.

 

In this case Aspergers syndrome is a convenient scapegoat. There is a more difficult quesion behind it about how how was allowed to fall out of the system completely at 13 and what part that played in the build-up to these tragic events.

 

 

Simon

[lil_me]

I think Carole hit the nail on the head with this one.

 

My son is only 6 years old now, but I look at him in meltdown or when he's being agressive and wonder what on earth will happen when I am not strong enough to deal with him as it is getting difficult now.

 

My heart goes out to the family who have lost their daughter, but also to those ignored or brushed aside by the system as it is now.

[Lucas]

It is highly unlikely that the guy would not remember this if he did it; it's far too common that when any Autistic has experienced an extremely emotional circumstance their ability to function will be affected. It's not easy to forget and I personally believe the alibi is far more convincing than the notion that he was actually out.

 

I like playing sport and like other Autists that do so, I still feel the need to wind-down from it afterwards.

 

It's not that I am biased and I believe that no Autistic can kill, it's just that I don't ever see a convincing case: they always end up relying on DNA evidence which is erroneously believed to be infallable. Yes, DNA testing is never wrong, but that doesn't mean it's infallable; mathematics can never be wrong but people still draw ridiculous conclusions from it sometimes.

 

I'm especially worried about the 'tiny splatters' thing; as Barry George was convicted on the evidence of a single particle of gun dirt found in his coat pocket, which is highly unlikely as if a gun had actually been there then it would have left the pocket a filthy mess especially after being fired. It seems this fella is now paying for the same faulty logic: if you beat someone to death, there will be a lot of blood and a fair amount of it will end up all over you- not just specks on the trainers.

 

Paul Smith was convicted last year on the basis of his DNA being found on a can of Guiness in the victim's room, placing him in the room. It's not imagined for one moment in court though that this could be the very same tin that the victim stole from him while she and her friends were teasing him earlier on in the night and he was unable to find the can after.

 

I can't prove any of these people innocent, but it's fairly obvious none of them have really been proven to be guilty.

[~Jonathan~]

Sorry Auriel <'>

 

I didn't get the irony in your post

 

Very sorry

 

<'> Auriel <'>