what changes would you make to the current educational system for parents?

[Emma21]

Hi everyone,

I am currently in the middle of finishing the data analysis section for my dissertation, but I need your help.

Would you be able to comment on the following question?

What changes would you make to the current educational system we have for parents?

eg listen to parents, communicate with parents, LEA'S help and support parents rather than thinking they are the experts. Listen to parents so that they do not have to go to a tribunal court to fight for their children's right and needs being met.

 

Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Emma

[phasmid]

I'd pick all of them! Forced to take one I would say communication should be more open and two-way. After all you can talk to a brick wall for as long as you like and as often as you like, but it isn't going to change it's mind any day soon! Good communication is an absolute must, there is little point waiting until there is a major issue to deal with, to either drag in a parent or be a parent flouncing into school, when a problem could have been cured with a quick chat....if you can see what I am getting at.

[jen]

It has to be for the LEA to actually listen and understand what the parents are saying. Yes they listen but they do not understand or can not be bothered to understand what the parents are saying. Normally what the parents are saying the school or ed psy also make the same or similar statements.

 

The problem is communications does not affect attitudes and I believe LEA's have got to change there attitudes and work in partnership with the family school professional and child. If this was done there would not be any problems

Jen

[Canopus]

Put an end to all the secrecy and corrupt practices that takes place in LEAs.

 

Did you know that EPs side with the interests of senior LEA officials who in turn act as poodles to the interests of central government and Whitehall, rather than siding with the interests of parents or the real needs of kids? I am 99.9999% sure that EPs and LEA reps are bound by duty and contract not to recommend or even mention any medical or educational institutions that will be of help if they are outside the control of the LEA.

[Ian Jordan]

I would have a completely different view on this.

 

Currently most LEA systems make it difficult if not impossible for a parent to understand how they deal with any special need, each LEA is different and therefore whilst in theory what applies in one area applies in all, it is clearly not the case.

If a simple check list of criteria was published for inclusion in special needs, when statementing is implemented, criteria for funding etc it would allow parents to compare LEAs and make judgements.

Tribunals and appeals should be virtually unheard of (they cost ?10 000+ each and are very stressful) as a parent should know immediately whether their child fulfills the criteria and it should be obvious to all.

 

As it stands the parent who is most determined, spends a tremendous amount of time finding out how the system works in their particular area is much more likely to get a good outcome in comparison to a less able family. It would be lovely to see an open system - it is essentially closed at present with the parents acting as supplicants, on their knees and hoping an official will look kindly on them

 

Or is it that the power of the LEA depends on secrecy?

[julieann]

Hi everyone,

I am currently in the middle of finishing the data analysis section for my dissertation, but I need your help.

Would you be able to comment on the following question?

What changes would you make to the current educational system we have for parents?

eg listen to parents, communicate with parents, LEA'S help and support parents rather than thinking they are the experts. Listen to parents so that they do not have to go to a tribunal court to fight for their children's right and needs being met.

 

Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Emma

 

Hi Emma21,

I think that the biggest change will come when the educational system realises that ASD is a disability/ learning difficulty set apart from ADHD, ADD, Dyslexia etc and that our childrens "unacceptable behaviour" is caused by frustration, confusion and fear. Not by a need to make their jobs more difficult. They need to stop trying to shape square pegs to fit into round holes. It should be mandatory that all adults working with our children complete a course showing that they have at the very least a basic understanding of ASD behaviour.

Julieann

[Canopus]

Or is it that the power of the LEA depends on secrecy?

 

Absolutely. Britain as a nation has a public sector and civil service that for decades has operated with a culture of secrecy and continues to do so today. I'm not sure how helpful the Freedom of Information act is in practice. Has anybody here ever used it?

 

Parents who understand the internal workings of an LEA and have access to insider and obscure information stand a much better chance of success than parents who don't know the system very well. I suppose the internet helps in that obscure information can be turned into mainstream knowledge with ease.

[phasmid]

Tribunals and appeals should be virtually unheard of (they cost ?10 000+ each and are very stressful) as a parent should know immediately whether their child fulfills the criteria and it should be obvious to all.

 

As it stands the parent who is most determined, spends a tremendous amount of time finding out how the system works in their particular area is much more likely to get a good outcome in comparison to a less able family. It would be lovely to see an open system - it is essentially closed at present with the parents acting as supplicants, on their knees and hoping an official will look kindly on them

 

Absolutely Ian. When you think of how that money could be spent in actually supporting a child instead of arguing how not to suport them is seem a more than slightly ridiculous way to go about things.

 

How many children don't have parents who can access sites such as this one where they can discover what they should be getting in the way of support and consequently don't get their needs addressed? 1 child is one too many in my opinion. Officaldom does not like being looked straight in the eye and hearing that it is getting it wrong. But get it wrong it does, as many on here know (sometimes at a great personal cost), and they need telling! The system is, it must be said, better than what was in place even twenty years ago but it could, indeed should, be better than it is. We just have to make them listen...Caroles avatar (if it is still the same) says something about voices in unison. I'm one and add us all up we can make a lot of noise!

[Two naughty children!]

I had this very discussion with the head of our local Learning Support Service earlier this week, following a meeting we had with him at a local parenting group he called me to try and answer some questions he had not been able to at the time.

 

Two main points came out of our conversation:-

 

1. The frustration we as parents feel toward the LEA and related deparments for not listening

2. The LEA and related deparments never take into account what parents say and rely on reports from 'professionals'

 

in reply to point 1 we both agreed that as much as the LEA etc don't listen to us we as parent don't listen to them, the reason being that we don't understand how the system works, and we feel that everything comes down to funding, which he said was not true and often it was due to procedure, I said there should be a clear and precise outline which can be given to parents so we fully understand procedures.

 

In reply to point 2 which was much shorter - i told him we are the 'professionals', how can schools be expected to offer ASD children education when the Educators need educating.

 

Pick me up off the floor I think he listened and said he would look into the points raised and ring me back after Easter. (i keep looking for a pig flying past, but havn't seen one yet!!)

[nellie]

Two naughty children!,

 

in reply to point 1 we both agreed that as much as the LEA etc don't listen to us we as parent don't listen to them, the reason being that we don't understand how the system works, and we feel that everything comes down to funding, which he said was not true and often it was due to procedure, I said there should be a clear and precise outline which can be given to parents so we fully understand procedures.

 

When he rings back after Easter, I think you should remind him of the LEA's legal duty to provide information to parents on matters relating to special educational needs.

 

A local education authority must arrange for the parent of any child in their area with special educational needs to be provided with advice and information about matters relating to those needs.

 

Local education authorities must take whatever steps they consider appropriate to make parent partnership services known to parents, head teachers, schools and others they consider appropriate. Section 332A Education Act 1996

 

Parent Partnership Services: provide advice and information to parents whose children have special educational needs. They provide neutral and factual support on all aspects of the SEN framework to help parents play an active and informed role in their child's education. Although funded by the local education authority they provide a service to parents and are often either run at arms length from the authority or by a voluntary organisation to ensure parents have confidence in them.

[Helen_1980]

What would I change?

 

Well if I could only make one change it would be this: that the organisation who assesses children and writes the statements would differ from that that funds the provision.

 

I feel that if this happened the whole process would be less of a farce.

[phasmid]

they consider appropriate

 

...It's those words that cause all the problems! It should not be what they consider appropriate, it ought to be 'in a clear and unambiguous manner' to a set down standard across the country. The current wording has resulted in a patchwork approach and patchwork provision.

[oracle]

Local Authorities have to be 'made' to stop treating parents who have children with SEN as the bad guys. I believe that many parents are abused by the system and punished for having children with SEN. This is discrimination and needs stamping out. I totally agree that parents who can and do fight usually end up with something. Sadly having been in the position of sitting with parents so distraught about what is happening to them and their families because they are taking on the system,and having been in the position only last night of having parents ringing for help and advice until well after 11pm I know that many don't end up with something Unless of course you call extreme stress and anxiety something

 

It was once said by Stephen Ladyman (MP) that it was up to parents to police their LEA's and I think that that statement made everything much worse. There needs to be a body set up NOW that does in fact Police our Local Authorities (strange now that we have all lost the 'E' for our LA's) to make sure that they are not hammering us parents into the ground. I have been doing this nationally now for many years and believe me they will find a way to nail you to the mast of they possibly can.

 

Carole

 

(still with the BIG MOUTH and very much in need of 'One Voice')

[Two naughty children!]

Nellie

 

Thanks for that, but what I am telling him is to put it in English that even us simple parents can understand!!

 

Are parent partnership seems to drifting away from the point, this again I feel is to lack of funding and also I think they have to many people turning to them for help these day, they just don't get back to you.

[Kathryn]

Talking of Parent Partnership, this service needs to be independently funded so that it is not seen to be in the pocket of the LEA, and so that parents can have confidence in it. At the moment the quality and impartiality of the advice given is variable. PPS is not proactive enough in publicising information about SEN, it should fall to them to ensure that parents have easy access to all information about SEN so that they are fully aware of procedures and of their rights - before a crisis occurs. Not all parents have the means to find this information for themselves, particularly those who don't have access to the internet.

[sue1957]

I'm not sure how helpful the Freedom of Information act is in practice. Has anybody here ever used it?

 

Yes. Fabulous Act.

[phasmid]

Personaly, no. As a means of getting a school to cough up information to a parent however, yes! Just the threat of it (with a little help from the DfES) was enough to make the school play ball. It can be very effective just as a 'I will use it if you don't co-operate' tool!

[oracle]

Freedom of Information may well be a fabulous act but just see how nasty your LA can get when you start requesting information through this act.

 

You don't have to be faint hearted that's for sure.

 

Carole

[Suze]

Ian Jordan and Julianne really made the points I wanted too ........I,m not so sure changing funding will have a positive effect either.My sons extra hours were paid by the lea last year.This year things have changed the money is funded to the school who then fund his extra hours..............doesn,t take much for this to be abused.

[Canopus]

The Freedom of Information act has resulted in a lot of document shredding. It is possible that you can phone the school or LEA and be told the person you need to speak to is unavailable. When you phone back an hour or so later they will tell you the document was shredded an hour ago. This is a nasty trick some people play to prevent the public getting access to information.

[call me jaded]

Agree with Helen_1980.

 

The fundamental flaw is that those who assess, provide and fund SEN are the same people. No conflict of interest there, then.

 

The Audit Commission highlighted this in their report, called something like SEN (or Inclusion): a Mainstream Issue, published in about 2002. Central government then tried to act on the recommendations by directing the LAs to devolve funding directly to schools. LAs grasped the wrong end of the nettle and devolved responsiblitiy for assessment, provision and funding for the more frequent SEN difficulties to the schools (forgetting that the legal responsibility still lies with them). Thus passing on responsibility, but retaining accountability with no mechanism (or budget) to force the school to make provision. How clever was that? The end result is to raise the barrier to SEN provision even higher.

 

Anyway have a look at the Audit Commission report: it was 'spot on' IMHO. I think it included the expectation for the parent to police the statement too.

Edited April 9, 2006 by call me jaded

[annie]

The fundamental flaw is that those who assess, provide and fund SEN are the same people. No conflict of interest there, then.

 

For me, sadly, that sums it up .

 

The people who have the final say on whether a child gets assessed/a statement or make a decision in a tribunal have probably never met the child concerned. They base their decisions after reading reports that are sometimes, let's say, not always honest (not in all cases, but it does happen).

 

Annie

[Guest hallyscomet]

For me, sadly, that sums it up .

 

The people who have the final say on whether a child gets assessed/a statement or make a decision in a tribunal have probably never met the child concerned. They base their decisions after reading reports that are sometimes, let's say, not always honest (not in all cases, but it does happen).

 

Annie

 

Too often Annie, as we all know the majority of posts on here complaining about this.

 

H.

[PinkSapphireAngel]

I think getting rid of all the corruption and secrecy would go a long way as how are we parents ever meant to trust these LEAs when they make it clear time and time again they do not have the children's best interests at heart!

[Zemanski]

I want LEAs to actually recognise and act on their legal responsibility to meet the individual needs of children with SEN.

 

I suspect that would require some mechanism with a very big stick to whip them with

 

The tribunal system should be a last resort, not the only way for parents to get LEAs to meet their responsibilities

 

Zemanski

[Canopus]

The people who have the final say on whether a child gets assessed/a statement or make a decision in a tribunal have probably never met the child concerned. They base their decisions after reading reports that are sometimes, let's say, not always honest (not in all cases, but it does happen).

 

These people have to deal with hundreds of kids, and quite frankly think that 99% of the time parents are whingeing over minor trivial matter and expect to see their kids pampered like royalty.

 

A national SEN assessment organisation independent from LEAs and staffed by knowledgeable people would certainly be a good idea. It would deal directly with kids and parents on an individual basis and be responsible for issuing statements. As it will be independent from schools and LEAs which deliver education then it won't be biased by their interests such as trying to save money. Schools and LEAs will be obliged by law to implement any measures detailed in statements. Would any government consider setting up such an organisation?

[Zemanski]

LEAs are already obliged by law to implement statements, unfortunately, even when they do the vague way they like to write them means they often get away with providing the minimum support to meet the wording of the statement rather than the minimun required to meet a child's needs.

 

Zemanski

[Emma21]

what advice would you give to parents who are fighting to get the best education for their children?

e.g. know your rights

dedication

strong mindeness

do not let LEA'S/schools bully you.

[Suze]

for me joining a support group such as the nas helped.There I met parents who had been through the statementing process.I also requested a copy of the COP, and used it all the timefor reference.I also spke to parent partnership alot.But in all honesty the whole statementing process was awful, my son was suffering really badly at school and we were desperate for help.

[Zemanski]

get copies of the CoP, the DRC CoP and the behaviour and attendance document then call IPSEA and find a good forum to help you use them

 

Zemanski

[Canopus]

LEAs are already obliged by law to implement statements, unfortunately, even when they do the vague way they like to write them means they often get away with providing the minimum support to meet the wording of the statement rather than the minimun required to meet a child's needs.

 

A national organisation that does assessments will probably be more hard hitting than an LEA and in a better position to ensure statements are implemented properly by schools. They will also word statements more precisely and unambiguously to prevent schools from giving minimalist service.

[phasmid]

That's an easy one to answer Emma. Be open about it and find other parents to talk to either in person or through the Net on forums such as this. Knowledge is a powerful weapon in our armoury. Forums like this make sharing what we have learnt, often through trial and error, available to others. We can share this knowledge and help others go into battle armed to the teeth with the relevant acts and associated rights and make them listen to us . Schools and LEAs treat many parents as ignorant of things 'education' and think that they can simply walk all over us, well not if we know what our kids are entitiled to they can't!

[DaisyProudfoot]

Why can't they just listen - we do have a valid voice - we are after all the parents - why do they think we're stupid? After all many us went to the same schools our kids are going through now.

[Emma21]

That's an easy one to answer Emma. Be open about it and find other parents to talk to either in person or through the Net on forums such as this. Knowledge is a powerful weapon in our armoury. Forums like this make sharing what we have learnt, often through trial and error, available to others. We can share this knowledge and help others go into battle armed to the teeth with the relevant acts and associated rights and make them listen to us . Schools and LEAs treat many parents as ignorant of things 'education' and think that they can simply walk all over us, well not if we know what our kids are entitiled to they can't!

 

GOOD FOR U!!!!!!

[Emma21]

has anybody ever had problems with getting the school to publish an IEP for your child? If so what problems has a delay in not having an IEP CAUSED?

[LKS]

Emma up until April 2005 parents weren't even given copies of their children's I EP's at our primary school. My son had such wonderful targets as to improve handwriting, no strategies, no explanation of how they would go about this and most importantly no mention of when they thought he might have suceeded with this. My dd has an IEP that now stretches to 3 pages and there is no way she will ever meet the targets of all of them. They went from one extreme to another