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kerrybobs

MMR. Pressure from health visitor

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Hiya,

 

My daughter was diagnosed with AS/adhd when she was 9. She walked at 8 1/2 months, talking a lot quicker than her nt sister.

 

It has made me wonder if the mmr was a factor.

 

I have a 2 year old and have put off the mmr vaccination. We went for a check up yesterday and the health visitor was waiting vaccination in hand. I told her that I would like to do a bit more research before I decided what I would like to do. I ended up getting a lecture for over 15 minutes. Saying that this started out as an author who done research at a special school and there was a financial gain for either the author or the school ( I cant remember which). She said that the goverment have issued a statement to say that they believe there is no link between autism and the mmr. In fact she said they are saying they believe it protects children from autism.

 

I really am confused and dont know what to do for the best.

 

Any advice would be gratfully appreciated.

 

Many Thanks

 

Kerry

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cmuir   

Hi

 

It really is a difficult one and I think a very personal decision. I don't have any advice, just my thoughts on the subject ... I think that it's all well and good for these so-called experts giving lectures, but they're the ones that clock on a 9 and finish at 5 and don't have to look after a child with emotional, behaviour and learning difficulties 24/7! That may not be helpful! May be my ignorance, but I think it's a gamble or a lottery in terms of the harm that MMR does. The MMR issue was definitely covered up ? forget the name of the Dr who 'came out', but he was effectively deported to America! Aren't there separate injections available? After all, you're not saying you don't want your child to be immunised, you're just saying you want the option to choose whether to opt for the 3-in-1 or 3 separate injections. Go with your gut feeling. If it doesn't feel right ? don't do it!

 

Best wishes

 

Caroline.

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bugbug   

Hello

 

I don't know too much about the MMR thing but a neighbour of mines daughter had the vaccination and still got mumps. Not sure how that works! Sorry can't be of any more help. I don't like the fact your being pressured though. Its not an easy decision for anyone parent to make.

 

bugbug

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Well to be perfectly honest ive had the mmr but ive had measles and mumps. I cant remember if i had the measles before i got it but i definetly had the mumps after it. Ive decided when my kids are older im not giving them the booster i`ll find out where to get the seperate jags and pay for them. Im not blaming the mmr im just saying i wish i never let them both get when they were younger cos i`ll just never know if that made them worse or they were always going to have special needs.

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baddad   

Hiya Kerry -

 

A tough one, I know...

I chose not to have Ben vaccinated because he was already showing some indications that he might be genetically inclined to have a bad response. ASD and ADHD are both apparent in my wider family, and Ben (at the time) was certainly showing ALL the traits of ADHD. He also had a bowel/vomiting disorder. I too came under enormous pressure from GP's/Health visitors, and was in fact turned away by my family GP who had very strong views on the subject.

I was well armed to 'defend' my position, having undertaken as part of my HND in care a research project on parental attitudes to MMR, which revealed that - any question of a link notwithstanding - the pamphlet issued by the GMC to defend the MMR programmes contained many, many wildly inaccurate statistics. My feeling then, as now, is that if all the weight of the GMC could not produce a short pamphlet without resorting to misinformation and spin to back it up then there ARE likely to be some questions that need to be answered...

As it happened, Ben developed a severe (unknown) viral infection at around 2 1/2 yrs, and the ADHD behaviours already evident rapidly expanded to include more readily identifiable autistic traits, but FWIW I remain convinced that had I gone along with the MMR at this stage in his development his ASD would be more 'profound' [and sorry to anyone who dislikes that word - I do too, but am pushed to think of anything more appropriate at this point] than it is today. Additionally, I'd add that my autistic nephew does have significantly greater difficulties, and that his 'onset' fits classically with the 'MMR1 reaction' model.

 

At this stage, there does appear to be a growing consensus among professionals in the field that external factors can and do have an influence on how autism manifests in certain people, and MMR would come under that umbrella. It doesn't CAUSE anything, but if there is a genetic 'predisposition', it may be a factor in subsequent development...

 

One thing I feel very strongly about is the AGE at which the first jab is given. The human brain undergoes it's most significant development (around 80%, from memory) between birth and 3 yrs... Personally, I think it's niaive to think that introducing 3 viral components that have ALL been linked with autism (measles/rubella directly, mumps indirectly through encephalitis) at this critical stage would not present a heightened risk to children with a genetic predisposition.

 

Now, having said all of that, the official line is that all studies show NO LINK, and it is a fact that incidence of measles IS on the rise (but nowhere near the 'epidemic' predicted by the spin goblins), and certainly for the vast majority MMR does not seem problematic at all, so you really have to weigh that against your 'gut feelings' regarding your own child and family medical history...

 

As for that child who still developed mumps: Inocculation has a fail rate of (from memory again - and I'll admit mine's a bad one as far as statistics go!) around 25 -30%, so that percentage of children receiving the first jab will not be protected. That's the reason for the booster jab, to minimise the implications of that fail rate... My initial 'plan' was to forgo the baby jab but allow the booster, but - perhaps unwisely - I haven't gone with the booster.

 

Whatever way you go it's a hard decision . I will feel absolutely responsible for any effects if ben ever does contract measles, but equally i know more parents convinced that MMR has contributed to their child's autism who already feel that way.

 

Finally: Autistic or NT, Vaccine or Genetics - It's all irrelevent on one level. The only thing that matters is that we love, cherish and care for our children and celebrate their individuality with them...

 

L&P

BD :D

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Guest hallyscomet   
Guest hallyscomet

Hi,

 

There are a lot of posts in here on the MMR if you type it into the search section. A lot of parents have valid reasons why not to.

 

But like Baddad has said, I have heard if your child is prone to ASD or anything on the spectrum, it could make them worse.

 

What I was advised by someone in the know, was that single injections were much safer.

 

Have a read of these other posts, sorry its very late in the evening where I am, so need to retire soon.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Hailey >:D<<'>

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Lucas   
In fact she said they are saying they believe it protects children from autism.

 

I do not beleive that even this government would make an absurd claim, the information being given here is fantasy. If it is the case that a government source has said this, then I'm more than a little disturbed that now everyone seems to be defending their position by attacking Autism.

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pingu   

Hi Kerry

 

A very personal decision. One i have been through myself. my personal opinion was and still is that kieran was showing signs of AS long before he had the first MMR. But what i can say is that after he had the jab we saw an increase of behaviour linked to the AS. Coincedence??? Maybe. Recently the HV advised me against the booster as last time he suffered ear infections and general withdrawel. But as i have mentioned before when i took him for his pre school booster, the doctor gave him the MMR as well (i know i know :angry: ) I tried to remain positive and tell myself that he would be fine, and at least there would be less chance of him catching the dreaded bug (which is on the increase) But again (coincedentally ???? ) He has not been the same since. Recently he has started to get illnesses all the time, Is more intense (if that could be possible) and generally i know that somewhere down the line the ingredients in this "harmless vaccine" have had a reaction and i see the result before my eyes every second of the day every day of the week,.

 

I have had lots of great advice from the group, which has been great, i hope you get some too. Im sorry for been quite vauge, but im soooooo tired. Didnt get much sleep again last night.

 

I hope you make the best decicion thats right for you and your child. The thing i ask myself all the time is, Could i ever have forgiven myself if he were to catch measles and died??? No i couldnt forgive myself, but i cannot forgive myself anyway as i sat there and watched some doctor pump the MMR into him which has left us in this situation. (that probably doesnt make much sense) Anyway. i guess what im saying is its catch 22, cant do right for doing wrong..... :oops: Im babbling.

Ill leave now :lol:

Take care and all the best for whichever decision you come to.

Shaz

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jomica   

Sorry, but I can't advise - I've struggled with it aplenty myself and ended up not really knowing what to do. As a result my two older children have had MMR and the other - who has autism - has only had the first, but not the booster.

 

However, I do know that GPs have target figures to achieve when it comes to MMR vaccination - miss the target, miss the money. Health Visitors work for the PCTs who "police" the targets for GP practices to achieve.

 

Am I cynical? Yes.

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lainey   

i'm goung to give my bay 3 separate jabs and i dont care how much it costs i blame the mmr for my first son so i'm taking no chances with baby and if he turns out autstic i know there was nothing i could do about it but i'm not doing anything that i could blame myself for thats my opinion lainey

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nikrix   

Its a personal decision

 

My two older children have had it. My daughter now nine was dx with epilepsy at a early age she had a few seizures before the MMR but went on to have quiet a few after then a dx of ASD. My son now four had 2 seizures the same as my daughter before his MMR was due, he has not had the MMR and had no more seizures.

 

Yes its a worry I don't know if I have done the right thing. He has come out in a rash recently and it looked just like measles, he still has it but it was put down to a viral infection. I don't have the answers either, sorry!!!

Edited by nikrix

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supersec   

Very difficult one. I have decided that JJ (ASD) is not having his booster and his brother (NT) is having the jabs done individually.

 

I dont think it causes ASD but sure as hell makes it worse.

 

If you want the individual jabs type in Directhealth 2000 and they do clinics all over the place, I am paying ?320 for my baby to have his but it is worth it to me.

 

hope you can decide what to do and remember it is your child who you have to look after not some stupid HV who thinks she knows best.

 

Lots of love and hugs

 

supersec

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Lynden   

I gave both mine the initial MMR. We knew Logan had problems before we gave it, and he hasn't worsened since having it. I did give my NT daughter the booster, but will not be giving it to Logan without having his immunity levels checked first and then will likely go for the singles.

 

Lynne x

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Just discussed this on another thread - the one where that boy died of measles .. the first case of death from measles in 14 years (he lived on a gypsy camp and had an already weakened immune system). I think it made people panic, but you have to put it into perspective ... like how many children have died of a common cold in the last 14 years, thousands probably. Many children have measles and mumps and are fine (I had both as a child).

 

Personal choice indeed and it is a tough decision to make.

 

My son had his MMR at 16 months, I had heard of autism at that point but didn't know what it was so we did the old "it won't affect us so we will get him injected like everyone else because we should" - pah! Two months later and it all went pear shaped ... and unfortunately I had to learn about what autism was (and I so wish I had known before). I declined his booster at age 4 (much gasping from the nurse at the health centre). His brother who is 15 months old and so far NT is going absolutely nowhere near the needle. We are taking a risk but it is very calculated. If he is still NT at 4 years old, we may let him have the injection before he starts school, if enough evidence is around to support our decision at that time.

 

Difficult to know who to believe, thalidomide was once a wonder drug and Doctors were still in denial about it having caused birth defects for some time (idiots!) Has there been enough research into MMR - no! Are there people on this forum who believe that their child has autism because of the MMR jab - yes! No smoke without fire?? Are we just paranoid? Who knows?

 

Just don't let the health professionals bully you into making the decision for yourself, they don't have all the facts, they are going by what they are told to say, not what they know and they are giving you the worst case scenario all the time. Ask them what fillers are in the injections and what the exact contents are .. that may tell you how much they actually know about what they are about to stab into your childs arm.

 

The truth is out there!

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Who on earth did that HV think she was?

 

It preventing Autism is not only nonsense, but is dangerous nonsense IF there is a link between MMR and Autism,

I personally believe if a child is more suseptable the mmr is not safe for them.

My youngest ds had the singles which we paid for and will have his levels checked before having any of them seperately boosted when he is about 5 (he will be 4 in August)

 

I have always had hassle from nurses etc as none of my 3 boys have had the whooping cough jab as we believe strongly it severely damaged my older brother, myself and my younger brother did not have the jab as a result.

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lisann   

Hi Kerry

 

Would like to say know how you feel we had to make the decision recently and it was a hard one. It has to be your decision and your hubby's / partner's if you have one and no one elses!!!

 

You shouldn't be forced by medical people tho' that's for sure !!!

 

We thought hard and long and decided to give Char his MMR the first one deffinetly didn't give him his ASD he had that before the jab.We knew it could make the ASD worse but as parents we weight up the pro's and con's and decided to give it to him. That's not to say that's right for you, just go with what you think after all you have to live with the decision.

 

Good luck whatever you choose.

 

Lisa x

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Hiya,

 

Thanks to all who replyed.

 

I suppose there is no firm answer. I am still unsure as to go ahead with it. I have never thought about getting the jabs seperately. Does anyone know how much they are and where would I go to get them?

 

Once again Thank you for sharing your feelings regarding this matter.

 

Kerryxx

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supersec   

Hi have just paid for Jamie's (nt) individual jabs with a company called Direct Health 2000 if you go on line and type that in you will find their web site, fill the details in and they will send you a form. They do clinics pretty much all over as far as I know but you might have to check if it is in your area. I am paying ?345 for the three jabs. Worth it for me tho.

 

Best of luck and you will make the right choice for you and your child.

 

Keep smiling :P

 

Supersec

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faye   

My youngest son is now 20 month old ad he still hasn't had it and i keep getting pressured by my doctor and when ive asked about getting them done seperately he won't tell me anything about it.

So I know how u must be feeling as my oldest is 6 and has ASD

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Yeah I am the same Faye ... I asked about the separate jabs and the immediate response was "well we don't do them and you won't get them done around here or in London (I live in Staines)!" and it will cost you "hundreds of pounds" ... again, it is down the knowledge of the individual at the Health Centre ... just telling you what she herself has been told to say.

 

Even though I have had numerous chats with them about my 15 month old not getting it done .. they still keep ringing me and giving me the guilt trip.

 

I just can't take the risk.

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