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littlenemo

Autistic Brains

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Thanks for that link. It was very interesting. I had a look at one of the other links, about autistic mice, and in the article it mentioned that people with autism often have enlarged heads. Has anyone heard of that before?

 

Cheers,

Eva

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Empirically we use visualization techniques for some people and they do vary significantly in ASD.

Ask your child to imagine a beach - or use their memories of a holiday in picture form - they often have significant difficulties. Sometimes we can access these areas - sometimes not - using visual techniques.

These effects are common in ASD but not universal.

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I thought it was commonly accepted knowledge that people with autism live in their own dream world. Some of the greatest visionaries are alleged to have autism or AS.

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in the article it mentioned that people with autism often have enlarged heads. Has anyone heard of that before?

 

No, but it would explain why I've never found a hat that fits - my head's much longer than it is wide. When I was younger I really wanted an opera hat (one of those pop-up top hats) and went to a second-hand top hat shop :blink::clap: . They measured my head and told me I'd have to get one made specially - no way could I afford it. But they did say that they get half a dozen or so people every year with a similar head shape - maybe all autistics?

 

Canopus - I suspect that's the point. Autistic brains don't 'switch off' when they relax, they just keep rolling along (hence sleep problems, etc.)

Edited by littlenemo

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and went to a second-hand top hat shop :blink::clap: .

Surely Nemo that should be the second head shop? :lol: Sorry couldn't resist.

 

As for AS having big heads I don't think Bens is unusually large but I do think AS kids, boys in particular have a certain look about them. You know like downs syndrome kids have a similar look to each other. It's not as pronounced as Downs kids but there is something that I can't put my finger on. I have spoken to Brook about this, as we met, and our kids both had this look, she agrees too.

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I think i remember the size of heads was discussed on this site a few monthes back if somone has the time to serch. Adam has a large very solid head his pead said this is common his face is diffrent to most boys he has a bigger gap between his eyes and a high forhead.

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Empirically we use visualization techniques for some people and they do vary significantly in ASD.

Ask your child to imagine a beach - or use their memories of a holiday in picture form - they often have significant difficulties. Sometimes we can access these areas - sometimes not - using visual techniques.

These effects are common in ASD but not universal.

 

Thanks, Ian, for that final sentence... the problem with these kind of studies is that they often lead to huge generalisations that don't hold up to further study, and then the VALID parts of the study are undermined because the results aren't universal! :angry::angry:

 

One other thing I think that needs clarification: What IS 'daydreaming'? I think it's fair to say that most autistic people don't just 'switch off' when they are not involved in a task, so though the process of 'relaxed thinking' (?) may be different, it's an objective difference. The autistic 'daydreamer' wouldn't be able to tell the difference between his/her own and anyone elses daydreaming, because -by definition - he/she has no basis for comparison... Interesting study, though, and hopefully it will shed some light on the (mechanics of the) 'differences', without actually attaching value judgements to them..

 

L&P

BD :D

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Both my boys have got wopping heads. But William's is particularly big. I've got a pic of him when he was a toddler standing next to a model of Noddy, they look exactly the same :D

 

Lauren

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A couple of things about this made me smile. Firstly this bit, where they state the study was carried out on:

 

15 people with autistic spectrum disorders and 15 healthy people.

 

Does these mean that only non-asd people get sick? Or are they implying that having an ASD means your 'not healthy'. Perhaps I am just being pedantic.

 

The second thing is a tad more controversial. A 'certain study' into mmr was ridiculed a few years ago partly on the grounds that the number of participants was considered to be 'too low'...I think the figure was around 12. Hmm...

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Both my boys have got wopping heads. But William's is particularly big. I've got a pic of him when he was a toddler standing next to a model of Noddy, they look exactly the same :D

 

Lauren

 

What sort of a parent are you, making the poor little beggar wear a blue felt hat with a bell on and a yellow polkadot tie???

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I wonder if the folks who set up the experiment considered environmental factors such as 'Is an autistic person less likely to be relaxed with their head (or entire body?) in an MRI scanner, and if so how would this affect the results?'

 

Just a thought...

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So let me get this straight. They take 15 NT people and 15 ASD people and think they sum up everybody in those "definitions". My NT husband (who has traits of ASD but not enough to put him on the spectrum) cannot see pictures in his head. I, who fits Aspergers to almost textbook precision in most ways, have very vivid pictures in my mind. When I'm stressed and worried I automatically start to daydream.

The fact is, you can't say that everybody is one way based on such a small study group. That would be like saying no-one liked apples because you asked 15 people who didn't like them.

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Interesting!

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Big heads - the first thing Com's consultant did after diagnosing him was to measure his head and length of fingers to add to data being collected on those things - there is a correlation between large head size and autism but, as with everything else, it is a general observation not something that applies to all.

 

I think a lot of the criticisms of the article are not about the research itself but the way it has been presented by the journalist - I can't find the actual paper to check but I would think they are unlikely to be making such sweeping generalisations on the basis of an initial small study, it is more likely that they are saying the study indicates things about brain activity that need further study. Also the 'daydream' aspect doesn't ring quite true to the rest of what is said which is simply about brain activity being different and not shutting down in rest.

 

I would like to find the paper and see what it really says.

 

Zemanski

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Big head? Huh? That doesn't seem to fit me personally but I can get the not daydreaming bit. I just kind of go blank - no thoughts at all and I can happily just stare at a wall or out of the window and just not see anything (either mentally or visually)

 

What a bizarre thing :D

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I can't do the visualisation thing with relaxation techniques, etc.

 

And I can't hold people's faces in my head, only fragments of them :wacko:

 

BUT, I can 'make' things in my head, going through the whole process in minute detail, seeing it all. I've always done this, and get great pleasure from it...when I was a child I would go somewhere quiet so that I could do this in peace.

 

My mum (about whom I am having dark suspicions! :lol: ) was an art teacher, and says she has always drawn and painted in her head. Sometimes you see her drawing in the air with her finger!! :wub:

 

Bid :wacko:

 

I don't think my head is out-size :unsure::lol:

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Sorry lost my thread ...... I was away with the fairies. Now what were we talking about, oh yes daydreams :D

 

My AS son says when he has bad dreams at night he goes in and changes them :wacko: What's that supposed to mean, I thought dreams were random!

 

I don't know if he daydreams, I think his brain's too busy for that.

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My AS son says when he has bad dreams at night he goes in and changes them :wacko: What's that supposed to mean, I thought dreams were random!

 

DPF - I can do that, have been able to since I was a child, it's apparently called "lucid dreaming". If I am having a bad dream & being chased for e.g. I will just think "there is a fast car here that I can drive away & escape in" and lo and behold a fast car arrives. I'm not able to stop a particular dream or dictate what I dream overall, but I am able to change things that are happening IYKWIM. It's kinda hard to explain. I'm also usually aware that I am dreaming & I always remember my dreams in the morning.

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It does seem to be a limited study so I'm not sure of its relevance, but I'll have to ask ds about it and see if he knows what I'm talking about... I suspect he daydreams all the time and just never turns it off! For his trouble sleeping he does play guided imagery CDs, don't know if that helps or if it is the music...

 

As to big heads, I think the connection is not just size but growth, eg born average but then jumps in percentile the first year (like my ds's did, 20-90th percentile and holding, vs just 5 percentile in height). FWIW we are a family of big-headed shorties, with lots of quirks but only one firm diagnosis. :whistle:

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DPF - I can do that, have been able to since I was a child, it's apparently called "lucid dreaming". If I am having a bad dream & being chased for e.g. I will just think "there is a fast car here that I can drive away & escape in" and lo and behold a fast car arrives. I'm not able to stop a particular dream or dictate what I dream overall, but I am able to change things that are happening IYKWIM. It's kinda hard to explain. I'm also usually aware that I am dreaming & I always remember my dreams in the morning.

Funny you mention this i've always been able to do that. I thout everyone could :lol: My DH now thinks im wierd.

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Sam (AS) can day dream, he has created a whole world, an army, a universe and an imaginary friend too!

 

He spends time thinking about what he can think about and then when he has two or three choice subjects, he goes off to think about them very happily.

 

His dreams are detailed and fantastic, alot of them scary though. Im going to tell him about lucid dreaming and see if that helps.

 

His head is whopping! He was in size four to five year old hats when he was a tot! Mikes head is mighty big too!

 

mine however is practically perfect.... :P

 

redberry

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:unsure: I do the dream thing too... :unsure: and so does little monkey... :unsure:

 

:D

 

He is quite often staring into space and if he's asked what he's thinking about, he says 'absolutely nothing... my brains resting..' :blink:

 

Whilst i'm thinking of the dreaming thing - something very odd happened the other night. M's prone to sleepwalking, never before has he been woken up from it - we just guide him back to bed (eyes wide open, chatting away.. :wacko: ). Anyhow, the other night, i went to turn off his lava lamp and he sat bolt upright and got up. This isn't all that unusual... But, then he began screaming, really terrified screaming, i had him on my lap trying to sooth him - but he was so frightened. He kept saying 'i want mummy', and when i said 'i'm here' he'd scream, 'please stop that - i want mummy, please'. Really shook me up :tearful: .

 

I can remember my brother sleepwalking as a child - he was woken up a couple of times and freaked out. He told us years later it was killer teddy bears (!!! :huh: !!!) - really frightened him.

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I haven't read the study, only this news report, but I have some issues:

 

Autistics daydream certainly, I definately do. But anyone who has been on an Aspergers/Autism board that is predominately filled with Autistics will have at some point seen discussions on 'mental inertia'. Many of us find it hard to get going, but once we get going find it hard to stop.

 

The report didn't say how much the study subjects knew about the study as it was going on. Many Autistics could have been anticipating or gearing up for the next number count, in which they will certainly not daydream.

 

They also had to look at a cross: I do not daydream when I am facinated with shapes or symbols, I'm busy exploring them.

 

The time arrangement for the study could also have been completely wrong: once we get started we'd find it hard to stop. We can daydream for hours when we start daydreaming but we can't jump straight into daydreaming so suddenly. I don't think the Autistics in this study were given adequate time, plus as they would have been expecting another round of number counting, they would not have let themselves daydream.

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I overheard a conversation between two staff at my residential school that autistic people live in a fool's paradise. Can anybody elaborate more on this?

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'Living in a fool's paradise' is living in a fantasy world where everything is wonderful because you ignore anything bad - with the implication that it'll all end in tears.

 

I can explain the phrase, but I can't explain why they might have used it :blink:

 

nemo

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