AS only affects middle class kids

[Canopus]

Today I was informed by a middle aged person who claims to be a figurehead of the working class community that AS only occurs with middle class kids and doesn't affect working class kids. When I asked him to explain why he gave me a running commentary about how middle class parents have created AS by being overprotective and turning their kids into spoilt social recluses rather than letting them experience the joys of childhood from years gone by when conditions like AS didn't exist. He mentioned that middle class parents are reluctant to let their kids play outside, take them to school in cars, make them devote a large amount of time in evenings and weekends doing homework, let them spend most of their free time in front of the television or computer, and buy them all sorts of expensive unnecessary toys and video games. Then they wonder why their kids end up with this so called condition called AS. In contrast working class kids play outside with other kids and learn social skills and how to take the rough with the smooth rather than living a cosy lifestyle. He told me he had lived on the same council estate since the 1960s and never encountered any kids on his estate who had AS like conditions.

 

A told this person he speaks absolute tosh and doesn't understand a thing about AS and that medical conditions do not discriminate by social class or background. His reply was that AS isn't a medical condition but a state of mind caused by an overprotective spoilt upbringing. I then told him that AS is an official medical condition and a form of autism that is incurable. He replied that I was a middle class "know it all" who makes up all sorts of excuses to protect their socially inept bratty kids from authority, and I have no idea of how working class people really live.

 

At this point I wanted to hit him.

[justamom]

###### to him is all i can say.....

[mandyque]

WHAT THE #*&$???????????

 

Someone really needs a serious reality check!

 

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

[baddad]

This was a popular misconception from the 60's/70's because only UPPER MIDDLE class families could afford to pursue the (then) extremely rare dx through private consultants...

Amongst the upper classes, any sort of profound problem would have been hidden away, while those more able (from an NT POV) would be classed as 'eccentric', which is SOOOOOOO part and parcel of British Aristocracy anyway that nobody would raise an eyelid!

Working class families would just end up with an 'ESN' diagnosis and lump it...

Don't know what you meant by 'middle aged', but if less than 50 I'd say the gonk you spoke to was being deliberately antagonistic for the 'shock' value...

 

L&P

BD

[Zemanski]

on the council estate across the road from me, within 200 yards, there are 3 families, within 2 doors of each other who between them have 7 children on the spectrum and nobody could accuse them of being middle class. On my side of the road, where us middle class snobs live, there are another 5 people with an ASC within 200 yards and just down the way in the posh houses with the high walls and the big cars are another 2 children.

 

I agree that the way children are restricted these days is not good for social learning but that's nothing to do with ASCs.

 

In the 60s and 70s they couldn't have been diagnosed in Britain anyway because there was no one diagnosing anyone, AS was barely known in Britain until 1981, kids with AS probably stayed at home because they were bullied so badly and were dumped in poor excuses for special schools along with anyone with learning difficulties and physical disabilities, many were probably in residential institutions for children with behaviour problems. The kids were there, just not playing out with the others.

 

I also think that kids with AS are not coping as well as they used to and so are needing to be identified and supported more specifically because we live in a world that is much more complex with rapidly changing social environments, little emotional or physical security and no clear boundaries.

 

stupid man

[Canopus]

He is the leader of a council tenants association and a governor of a primary school in the middle of the estate he lives on. Every kid attending the school lives on the estate although some kids who live on the estate attend (better?) schools outside the estate.

[jlp]

Today I was informed by a middle aged person who claims to be a figurehead of the working class community that AS only occurs with middle class kids and doesn't affect working class kids. When I asked him to explain why he gave me a running commentary about how middle class parents have created AS by being overprotective and turning their kids into spoilt social recluses rather than letting them experience the joys of childhood from years gone by when conditions like AS didn't exist. He mentioned that middle class parents are reluctant to let their kids play outside, take them to school in cars, make them devote a large amount of time in evenings and weekends doing homework, let them spend most of their free time in front of the television or computer, and buy them all sorts of expensive unnecessary toys and video games. Then they wonder why their kids end up with this so called condition called AS. In contrast working class kids play outside with other kids and learn social skills and how to take the rough with the smooth rather than living a cosy lifestyle. He told me he had lived on the same council estate since the 1960s and never encountered any kids on his estate who had AS like conditions.

 

A told this person he speaks absolute tosh and doesn't understand a thing about AS and that medical conditions do not discriminate by social class or background. His reply was that AS isn't a medical condition but a state of mind caused by an overprotective spoilt upbringing. I then told him that AS is an official medical condition and a form of autism that is incurable. He replied that I was a middle class "know it all" who makes up all sorts of excuses to protect their socially inept bratty kids from authority, and I have no idea of how working class people really live.

 

At this point I wanted to hit him.

 

Goodness me, well done on not hitting him!

 

For what it's worth (not very much!) I live on a working class council estate, my son doesn't play outside as a) it would be dangerous and b ) no-one wants to play with him, he's driven to school (since I passed my driving test 2 weeks ago ) since I've dragged him there kicking, screaming and lashing out at random passerbys for 4 years and though I do agree it's better for children to walk to school, I've decided that for now I've done my bit! He does what homework is set by school, which I thought was my parental responsibility (surely a school governer should appreciate this?), he does spend far too much time on the pc as it's his 'special interest' but weekends only and yes he probably does get a few more things than I got as a child - his life is restricted in the 'normal' childhood sort of way so he has a few more garden toys as he's stuck in the garden and same for regular toys as a small compensation (though obviously he doesn't know that's why)

 

What a prat! And how scary considering he's a school governer that he can't see past his preconceived ideas and isn't open to being educated at all.

[mossgrove]

He probably got his information from the Sunday Times last weekend!

 

http://www.asd-forum.org.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=8254

 

Simon

Edited May 17, 2006 by mossgrove

[Flora]

###### to him is all i can say.....

 

seconded !

[Paula]

I also live on a very large council estate.

 

No ###### middle classs round my way.Theres loads of kids on the Autistic spectrum.

 

He sounds a right ######.

[puffin]

Just to let you know in my husbands close family there 6 people formally diagnosed with AS in three different countries two of which are countries which are well known for fostering independence and outdoor activity in children: Sweden and Denmark.

 

I think a lot of the misconceptions come from the "curious incident of the dog in the nightime effect" - whereby AS is percieved as giving genius-like abilities - many people read this book and think that they "know about AS". I think there is also atendency for some people to self diagnose their overprotected child as " a bit autitistic" as a means of justifying their behaviour.

 

There are also many people who confuse the vaious conditions - i have met several people who think that for example ADD is the same as ASD

[noogsy]

well im not middle class... .lol...maybe im middle class but dont know it ???their is somthing for me to ponder on for the rest of the day...NOT....lol... love noogsy...xxxx

[Pippin]

I'd be telling him how concerned I was for the welfare of the tenants and children in his association and school....having someone with such outdated ideas in such a position of power. .....I'd probably have decked him first though!!!!!

[mel]

what a wassack! theres always one isnt there!

[Canopus]

I'd be telling him how concerned I was for the welfare of the tenants and children in his association and school....having someone with such outdated ideas in such a position of power.

 

He could be holding even more power in the future because he is in the process of setting up a new political party to represent council and housing association tenants with a membership only open to them and homeowners will be prohibited from joining.

 

I don't think he is a particularly intelligent or educated person. He left school without taking any exams and claims he is a salt-of-the-earth working class man who despises yobs, thugs, and dole scroungers and is proud of it. He succeeds mainly through sheer hard work and holding a populist stance amongst the people he is mainly involved with.

 

I asked him if he has ever read any books about AS and he says he hasn't. I recommended Tony Attwood's book but he refused it. He told me he found out about AS through the school he governs and thinks it is nothing more than a middle class social awareness issue for another unreal condition, rather like all this multicultural dogma. He also doesn't think much of computers and thinks they are a waste of school's money that could be used for better things like building repairs or free meals.

[Lucas]

For a 'salt-of-the-earth' type, this man has a severe deficit in moral backbone. He's irresponsibly expressed this view about people for who he will have a great deal of control over, it is a hostile view with no evidence to support it and was made in a forum where it could not effectively be scrutinised.

 

A person with moral conscience accepts that there is always a chance they might be wrong and so expressed views that effect others in a place where they can adequately be challenged. He has no concept of ethics regarding those diagnosed with AS. If he is wrong, he will bring harm to those with an AS diagnosis like myself. Lots of damage can be done before someone with authority on the subject hears of it and challenges it or if it gets revealed before that this guy is an utter crackpot.

 

If all with an AS diagnosis are middle-class, why are there so many more in comprehensive than private schools? Middle-class parents would buy them private education as they can afford it.

 

If all with an AS diagnosis are middle-class, why are there people with an AS diagnosis in countries where there is no middle-class? (China, Cuba)

 

If all with an AS diagnosis are middle-class, how come middle-class people adopt AS diagnosed kids from working-class families and vice-versa?

[TheNeil]

Huh? So all those years my parents spent kicking me out to play outside and not buying me everything I ever wanted mean that I can't be AS? He's also saying that my (now dead) father and his mother who were almost certainly AS (they have pretty much exactly the same traits as me) must have been middle class despite both coming from a pit village in the North East.

 

And what about that line of research that goes something along the lines of ASD brains not being wired up 'properly' (as in, not NT) - state of mind indeed. Talking <insert rude word here>

[Lucas]

He is of course regurgitating his own version of the refridgerator mother theory. This was the original one that was debunked when it was revealed that twins are more than 96% likely to both be Autistic if one of them is Autistic, it's 100% if they're genetic twins. Also, wouldn't just about every child of a 'bad parent' have the same diagnosis? Why do you get mixed NT/Autistic families if this is the case?

[Pippin]

I wonder if it's worth reporting him to the LEA....Someone voicing those views has no place on any governing body. If he's an LEA appointed governor rather than a parent governor they may be able to take action.

[Canopus]

I had a word with the LEA about him but they said they can't do much because he is an elected governor. The person from the LEA mentioned that governors hold differing opinions on things that in some cases run counter to official LEA and central government policies.

[westie]

Today I was informed by a middle aged person who claims to be a figurehead of the working class community that AS only occurs with middle class kids and doesn't affect working class kids. When I asked him to explain why he gave me a running commentary about how middle class parents have created AS by being overprotective and turning their kids into spoilt social recluses rather than letting them experience the joys of childhood from years gone by when conditions like AS didn't exist. He mentioned that middle class parents are reluctant to let their kids play outside, take them to school in cars, make them devote a large amount of time in evenings and weekends doing homework, let them spend most of their free time in front of the television or computer, and buy them all sorts of expensive unnecessary toys and video games. Then they wonder why their kids end up with this so called condition called AS. In contrast working class kids play outside with other kids and learn social skills and how to take the rough with the smooth rather than living a cosy lifestyle. He told me he had lived on the same council estate since the 1960s and never encountered any kids on his estate who had AS like conditions.

 

A told this person he speaks absolute tosh and doesn't understand a thing about AS and that medical conditions do not discriminate by social class or background. His reply was that AS isn't a medical condition but a state of mind caused by an overprotective spoilt upbringing. I then told him that AS is an official medical condition and a form of autism that is incurable. He replied that I was a middle class "know it all" who makes up all sorts of excuses to protect their socially inept bratty kids from authority, and I have no idea of how working class people really live.

 

At this point I wanted to hit him.

 

me too - what a load of cobblers!!!!

 

What can you do to convince someone with this attitude?

Edited May 19, 2006 by westie

[Suze]

hi canopus............maybe a letter to the governors??.............I,d be horrified if I knew a governor at my childs school felt this way........and I,dbe letting everyone know his views.You could also print out some info and statistics for him to read........oh and maybe a copy of lorna wings book !

[Canopus]

For a 'salt-of-the-earth' type, this man has a severe deficit in moral backbone. He's irresponsibly expressed this view about people for who he will have a great deal of control over, it is a hostile view with no evidence to support it and was made in a forum where it could not effectively be scrutinised.

 

A person with moral conscience accepts that there is always a chance they might be wrong and so expressed views that effect others in a place where they can adequately be challenged. He has no concept of ethics regarding those diagnosed with AS. If he is wrong, he will bring harm to those with an AS diagnosis like myself. Lots of damage can be done before someone with authority on the subject hears of it and challenges it or if it gets revealed before that this guy is an utter crackpot.

 

He is a well known and well respected individual who has done a lot for his local community including opposing council house sell offs; prevented the closure of his school because of declining applications and poor standards; solved lots of local problems including obnoxious behaviour, building repairs, vandalism, and abandoned vehicles; fought for tenant's rights in the face of mean landlords; improved leisure facilities for kids; is a staunch opponent of SATS and the National Curriculum; and has reduced crime and delinquency with no help from the police.

 

If all with an AS diagnosis are middle-class, why are there so many more in comprehensive than private schools? Middle-class parents would buy them private education as they can afford it.

 

His definition of middle class are homeowners and he despises them.

 

If all with an AS diagnosis are middle-class, why are there people with an AS diagnosis in countries where there is no middle-class? (China, Cuba)

 

If all with an AS diagnosis are middle-class, how come middle-class people adopt AS diagnosed kids from working-class families and vice-versa?

 

I would have to prove it to him or else he won't believe it.

[PinkSapphireAngel]

I think if the LEA are not able to do something then a letter to the Govenors and the HT expressing your concerns about such a biased and ill informed attitude from someone in such an important position needs to be written.

Does your child attend this school?

[Canopus]

He is quite friendly with the head teacher who thinks he is a hero. After all he turned around a failing school and saved it from closure. He was also responsible for forcing the old head to resign because he was deemed incompetent by many of the parents. I had a word with the head about the matter and she claimed that the school handles SEN very well, particularly considering a high proportion of kids come from a poor background and have problems at home with their family. As far as the LEA is concerned, if the school is delivering the National Curriculum and effectively handles SEN then nothing is wrong.

[k9ruby]

At this point I wanted to hit him.

 

Why didn't you?

[Lucas]

...solved lots of local problems including obnoxious behaviour...

 

(Insert joke showing the irony here).

 

As far as I can tell, the man simply has strong political beliefs that he follows through with, this does not make him 'a good person'.

 

Why should anyone have to prove anything to him for him to believe it? He has made a claim for which he has no proof, his position combined with his personal belief will affect other people and he cannot justify it. The refridgerator mother theory is alive only in the minds of people like him. I doubt he has had much contact with many Autistic people first-hand.

 

If he really believes what he says, he will state it in a public medium where it can be seen for what it is and scrutinised.

[Canopus]

The refrigerator mother theory is still going strong in the minds of many people so I don't think this man is an isolated case. For all anybody knows there could be thousands of school governors up and down the country who hold a similar view on AS. I have identified only one of them. After all, there are still teachers who deny that dyslexia exists including the head of my SEN residential school.

[Bullet]

I'll agree with the idea that there's still the "refridgerator mother" theory going strong. I took Ds1 swimming earlier this year and dropped off Ds2 at the creche at the swimming baths. Ds1 was being unresponsive so I said he was suspected of having an ASD (this was before his diagnosis). The creche nurse replied "you need to give him lots of hugs." You don't say?! (insert sarcastic smiley). Ds1 is one of the most huggy children I know

[Jill]

He sounds a right ######.

 

As usual, succinctly yet eloquently put. Paula, you really do have the knack of getting to the nub of the problem & I applaud you.

[jb1964]

(Insert joke showing the irony here).

 

As far as I can tell, the man simply has strong political beliefs that he follows through with, this does not make him 'a good person'.

 

Why should anyone have to prove anything to him for him to believe it? He has made a claim for which he has no proof, his position combined with his personal belief will affect other people and he cannot justify it. The refridgerator mother theory is alive only in the minds of people like him. I doubt he has had much contact with many Autistic people first-hand.

 

If he really believes what he says, he will state it in a public medium where it can be seen for what it is and scrutinised.

 

This middle aged man must come from the same mind set as David Irving.

 

Jb

Edited May 23, 2006 by jb1964

[Lucas]

No, David Irving is a Right-wing know-it-all that gets his facts wrong and doesn't let the evidence get in the way of his views.

 

The man we're talking about is a Left-wing know-itall that gets his facts wrong and doesn't let the evidence get in the way of his views.

 

Wait a sec, is there a difference?

[Canopus]

I don't know what this has got to do with David Irving, but this school governor is best confined to dealing with squeaky window hinges and lighting on pathways. He probably does a good job as a community activist but SEN are completely out of his depth.

[slaphead]

Whoever he is, he's talking a load of old scallops! (thought I better not write naughty words on here!)

I'm a working-class bloke who has an AS son and I think that the middle-aged man should get out more, as well as living on the same estate since the 1960's, he sounds like he takes his holidays there too!

He's certainly NOT a socialist in the true sense of the word, and I doubt whether he is "working Class" either, as his views do not mesh with any socialist theory I've ever heard of (and yes, I have read a few!). Also, as he is anti-"scrounging jobless", he sounds more right-wing than Margaret Thatcher ever did!

Where was this bastion of the working class when I needed his help in 1984 to stop Thatcher and her cronies bringing the country to it's knees with high unemployment/maximum profit economics???

I bet he's never been on a picket line in his life (and yes, again, I have been on more than a few myself, being an ex-Yorkshire Miner). People like him would be dangerous if they had more than one brain cell!

Please print this out and give it to him next time you are unfortunate enough to bump into the obnoxious old fart!

[Canopus]

It has crossed my mind that he could be a Soviet style communist who hides behind an array of attractive policies and strategies for his community. I'm sure communism was imposed in Russia by hiding the reality inside a populist package.

 

Many British socialist organisations are nothing like the Soviet communists. They are more a case of liberals and anarchists gone into overdrive.

[littlenemo]

Sorry to bore folks, but I rarely get to use what i learnt in my 3 years at Uni, so...

The communists were very up front with their policies - abolish serfdom (slavery by another name), get out of WW1 and feeding the people. And they did honestly try to do all 3. Then they killed all the anarchists (except Bakunin ), then all the communists and ended up with a totalitarian socialist state under Stalin . After the first 10 years communists weren't tolerated in the USSR, and most were sent to the gulags as 'bourgeois idealists'.

Socialism was meant (in classic Marxism) to be a stage along the way towards communism, but those in power never wanted it to go that far because it would mean them losing their power and privilege. Which is why the USSR described itself as Socialist, not Communist. Communism is much closer to anarcho-syndicalism than any socialist state, which is why there is some crossover between left-wing anarchists and socialists (at least in their ideals)

 

I've always found British socialist organisations to be extremely dogmatic and narrow-minded - and really easy to wind up...

 

Thank you for listening - you can get back to the real world now.

[Lucas]

The BNP also resort to populism in their promotions. They are a bunch of bigots, but the problem is that the BBC and some newspapers portray them as certain kind of bigots(stereotypical right-wing nuts) when they are not.

 

It doesn't matter that most who would describe themselves as 'right-wing' can't think of one BNP policy outside of Euroskepticism that they agree with, they still get portrayed as 'right-wing but more extreme right-wing'. The BNP are Nationalist Socialist, a cosmetic mix of left and right-wing stereotypical ideologies: right-wing patriotism meets left-wing optomism.

 

It means though that the visceral left-wing elements of the BNP are ignored by liberal media outlets and the right-wing equivilent elements are ignored by right-wing media outlets: neither wants to criticise populist aspects of their own ideologies. So it comes as no suprise that when Nick Griffin got a tough interview on channel 5 at the last general election he ran circles around the two(and they certainly needed two) interviewers because they had based all their information on myths about the BNP, which is how the BNP gains support- by debunking it's own myths in person and replacing them with 'false truth'.

 

False truth is where you rightly claim that something is false but then correct it with false information, using the authority gained from debunking what is false to assert your version of something as the truth. Hope that makes sense. The BNP can keep doing this for as long as the BBC keeps giving incorrect or biased information about them to the public.

[littlenemo]

Thank you for listening - you can get back to the real world now.

 

I spoke too soon

 

Do the BNP really call themselves Nationalist Socialists?!!!!!!

(For those who don't know that's what 'Nazi' is short for!)

[Canopus]

I've always found British socialist organisations to be extremely dogmatic and narrow-minded - and really easy to wind up...

 

I think they see themselves as more of a cult or religion rather than a political movement. An interesting feature of all but one socialist organisation is that they have no policy on the EU. It's not that they are pro EU, they just don't have a policy on the EU at all. Why they don't have a policy remains a mystery to me. A possible explanation is that the British socialists are so tied up with Marxist dogma, and Marx said nothing about the EU because it didn't exist in the mid 19th century, that they fail to see the situation of today.