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Gardenia

Hand flapping

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Today I walked into our living room where ds2 was playing happily and I saw him flapping his hands.

I asked him what he was doing (I must admit in a rather harsh tone) he said he was sorry and quickly put his hands behind his back. In a much gentler tone I asked him why he was flapping his hands and he told me the name of a boy in his class does it. I told him not to do it as he is not that boy and he is not a bird.

 

A number of things have been going through my head since.

 

Did he know it was inappropriate to flap his hands and that is why he quickly put them behind his back.

 

Does his SN school stop or interrupt any stimming - I must admit I've always stopped him rocking.

 

Was I right or wrong to stop him.

 

I know stimming can calm a child down but ds was quite happy playing without any anxieties. My other son went through a phase of biting his jumper and I would tell him to stop.

 

I'd appreciate your comments

 

Gardenia

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Hi Gardenia,

 

I've always found that when my son is stimming he seems to tune everyone out, so I dont know

if your son was truly stimming or just copying the boy at school.

 

I haven't ever tried to stop my son stimming as he appears to do it when he is highly anxious

(especially in crowds and noisy places) or he does it when he is OVER excited.

 

As soon as we walk out of our front door and walk down the road, my son starts doing a kinda

jumpy walk whilst cupping his chin in his hand and makes an occassional humming sound.

It's his way of coping with things and although at times it's very noticeable out and about,

I have to remember that if this is his way of coping and it's de-stressing him rather than

stressing him, then I dont feel it's my place to stop it just because other people 'look' at him.

 

As I've read before we all stim, ie.. chew a pen, fiddle with things, tap our feet or swing our legs,

I know I've done these things when I'm nervous, but I suppose they are not as noticeable as

my sons stims.

 

I personally wouldn't try to stop a stim, and if I'm honest I've got used to walking down the road

holding my son's hand whilst he bobs up and down like a jack in the box, and I've also learnt

to look right through people that give him a 'look'.

 

Just my own opinion of course. :D

 

Brook

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Actually I don't stop him.

 

Kids need to release their tension and if it's done by stimming then fair enough. When my boy's at home he plays his guitar (very quickly!) but if he hasn't got his guitar he will lie on the floor and spin round and round on his back often while holding a conversation which can be very dizzying. My dad asked me why he does it.

 

"Why was he doing that thing at our house when he spins round on his back?" asks my dad

 

"It's to release tension, it's called 'stimming'" was my reply.

 

My dad, satisfied there was a reason has never been bothered since.

 

Sometimes it's better to let people see stimming - if nothing else it gives us a warning sign - a bit like a valve on a pressure cooker I suppose. :)

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I let my son who is As stim and dont bother about it.I find its best to just go with the flow unless its causeing damage to himself others or property.

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I let Logan stim - its never occured to me to stop him as I figure he does it for a reason! He does a lot of rocking and hand flapping/finger flicking and we do get some odd looks when out and about but I dont really care to be honest.

 

Lynne x

Edited by Lynden

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Hi

 

I never stopped William from flapping. He hardly ever does it now, only when he is very upset.

 

Even if he's just copying someone else, I would advise you not to stop him. He was obviously enjoying himself. William is the only one of my two who flap or wriggle their hands and I can assure you that in most cases they do eventually stop unless for comfort when distressed.

 

Lauren

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I never stop my son stimming either, but like your son my son only stims in private - he spins in the kitchen or his room and if he hears us coming in he stops (i know because he makes a weird sound when stimming). I do think that my son knows that he cant stim outside but only in the privacy of his own home, he once said to me its not acceptable behaviour.

 

At the special school were i work we never stop children stimming its part and parcel of who they are but we do get some children who do copy certain behaviours...

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I had a finger twitching problem when I was a kid. It started when I was about 2 and went away when I was 9. My parents had some strange name for it that I can't remember. I recent years my fingers have started to tingle and my grip has weakened. Any ideas why?

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Canopus... it sounds like Carpel tunnels syndrome. Is it worse when you wake up in the mornings?

 

 

As for stimming... IMHO I don't thing there's anything wrong with it. I think unless it's something antisocial (and I'm sure you all know what I mean by that!!) then you should just let them get on with it. I know there are many schools of thought on this but if flicking, flapping, spinning or whatever helps someone to 'get through' a situation then I'm all for it.

 

There were two of us at lunch today discretely stimming away.... :lol: .... nobody would have been any the wiser!!

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I don't flap my hands exactly, but when I'm nervous or het up or just impatient I do shake one of my hands very vigorously for a while. It's sort of like a displacement activity, I think.

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My friends son is a hand flapper. While attending an interview for a place at an SEN unit within a 6th form he started flapping. The head of the unit looked shocked and demanded he stopped because it was inappropriate behaviour. So much for the understanding of AS they pride themselves on.

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Our dd spins round and round very fast on one favoured place in the living room. She also holds her fingers in a particular rigid shape while she does this, and stares at them, holding them close to her eyes. I've never been able to work out how she doesn't fall over... She also hums when she does it. Is that classed as stimming? We had never thought anything of it, or thought of mentioning it while she was going thru assessements etc, until EP asked us a particular question about spinning, and we realised it could have some significance. We've never stopped her, she looks like shes having too much fun :lol:

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my 2 stim a lot particularily when under pressure oldest twin wriggles his nose a lot then licks each palm an rubs them together younger twin play with the bottom of the curtain an the bottom of the material on the furniture,they also spin a lot it makes me dizzy,when outside they run around an shout a lot it bothers me more than it does them keep smilin luv karin :D:D:D

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most people stim for a reason - relaxation, stress relief, concentration, distraction from sensory overload, to fulfill need to stimulation of senses which are hypo-sensitive .......

 

Com's main stim is thumb-sucking, school tried to stop it as 'inappropriate' but we persuaded them to leave him alone as he was getting stressed and doing it more and now we know that he has a very good reason - he uses the pressure to make his eyes converge properly when writing or reading

 

it is not a good idea to stop stims unless they are very inappropriate (I think people probably know the sort I mean), in which case helping a child transfer to another stim is better than stopping them completely

 

Zemanski

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Sam flaps ......a lot.

 

He also does so when happy or excited or thinking. Sam also has ADHD and for us this is better than his somersaulting off the walls.

He also does not 'tune out' when flapping, in Sams case it indicates he is actually happy.

(When Sam tunes out he disappears under a coat and bites if you go near)

 

So no I do not shout or stop Sam from flapping if anything I let him indulge in his oddities as a reward for doing things he is unsure of. If he succeeds he gets very pleased with himself. :D

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Ditto to Elouise, really. Ds2 flaps when happy and excited, and does a sort of skippy jump as well. It looks quite cute at six and a half; don't know how it'll be taken later in life!

 

We don't get a lot of stims. For Ds2 echolalia and regurgitating script from videos is his major 'stim' - he tends to do it more when things are getting a bit overwhelming etc. We often walk to school with him ten paces behind, 'doing' Wallace and Gromit or whatever (perfect accents as well, of course). I get more looks now he's a bit older, but it's just him, so it doesn't bother me.

 

For ds1, chewing on something is his major 'stim'. I realise he needs it, so he just gets on with it. His school sweatshirts are in a bit of a state, though! He also starts talking as a coping mechanism - on the way to school he tells me all about the computer games he's going to invent, with all the details of what kind of weapons and who kills who etc and it goes on and on and on and on... It's brilliant stuff, but with the two of them going at it I just tend to zone out!

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I don't really stop DS either as I think he sometimes needs to be allowed to be autistic and stimming helps him calm down or relax. Particularly if he's been at school all day and has had to hold it together there, he may well need an outlet when he comes home. That's not saying I don't sometimes set boundaries or modify it depending upon the situation. DS likes screeching, it relieves stress and hyperactivity but he knows he can only do screaming if he goes to his room and he screeches and screams into a little recorder and then listens to himself! 20 minutes later he can be much calmer so seems to work

 

 

Lx

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we don't stop wade from ticking or flapping.. his neurologist in the states said that when brought to their attention it could cause them more stress and cause them to unintentionally do it even more! flapping is something alot of autistic children do.. it's thier way of subconsciously relieving stress or self stimulating.. in my opinion, wade needs this for his sanity so to speak. It's his bodies way of letting off steam as such!

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kieran hand flaps when hes excited and he also slaps himself on the forehead with the palm of his hand when he is angry i do tell him about that more for the fact he might hurt himself.

 

 

lynn

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Nope - i don't stop M from stimming. He's obviously doing it for a reason, as long as he's not upset by it - i won't be. It can get very irritating :wacko: . But, i'm sure some of the things i do irritate the h**l out of him - but he still lets me :lol::lol::D

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Tom loves spinning around and occassionally flaps his hands. He'll also vigorously shake his head from side to side. I don't stop him with any of these things (I actually suspect the spinning is just because he likes it :D ).

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Buzylizzie- you just struck a chord for me!

 

regurgitating script from videos

 

Thats what my ten yr old does-if he s watching something on tv he finds really funny= he ll repeat it- straightafter they say it- accent and everything! Also, he ll go thro phases where he ll repeat a phrase off some tv programme or another!

I just thought all kids do this!

As he gets older- the things he did as a younger child seem more "unusual" if that mkse sense??

Lisa xx

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What most people find is when you stop one behaviour you start another. My son self harms if he can't stim in other ways so would rather he stimmed his little heart out.

 

His main ones are bouncing and flapping, oh and his verbal ones. I only stop him when it is unsafe for him to do it. For example in front of my sisters fish tank :blink: next to the fire, in the middle of a road. I will usually suggest he goes elsewhere etc.

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I stopped my son flapping when he was 4, he used to do it a lot. When he was a baby (15 months) he would flap and do this strange jumping forwards and backwards thing when he was watching something good on TV - as he got older he found that movement more difficult and just flapped.

 

He used to flap his arms when he got really excited - so we made him stop it, just by saying "stop flapping, you look ridiculous etc, big boys don't flap".

 

I went to see him at school and to my horror saw he was still flapping at school, so I told the school not to tolerate it, and to tell him to stop flapping. He stopped there too.

 

I wanted to make him stop as it was the only physical thing that made him look any different.

 

He has not flapped now for a good eight months, he has totally left it behind (it's not even as though as he wants to or starts then stops because he knows he isn't allowed to). It has just disappeared from his life.

 

We were at Centerparcs recently and there was a middle aged man swimming with his family, as soon as the wave machine stopped, he started jumping up and down and flapping just like Asa used to. At that point, I was glad we had asked Asa to stop as this guy was so 'singled out'.

 

I know not every child can stop, or that every parent wants their child to stop, and I know that they might start stimming with some other action as a result of stopping one.

 

I just want my son to be, act and look as normal as possible and I don't make allowances for the fact that he is ASD all the time.

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My son walks and skips around our living room, humming tunelessly. He does this when he's happy and I think he's having his best thoughts then. I read ages ago that the poet Yeats used to skip along, humming to hismself and waving his arms about.

 

Eva

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We were at Centerparcs recently and there was a middle aged man swimming with his family, as soon as the wave machine stopped, he started jumping up and down and flapping just like Asa used to. At that point, I was glad we had asked Asa to stop as this guy was so 'singled out'.

 

I have to ask, why is this such a bad thing? Ok, the man was drawing attention to himself by this but if this was negative attention then it says more about the people watching than the man himself. If jumping up and down and flapping was this mans response to having fun then why would this be such a bad thing??

 

I'm sorry to disagree with you, but really, what is normal anyway??? I'm not ashamed of my kids, and William does some very strange things in the presence of strangers sometimes but if they have a problem with it that's THEIR problems.

 

Lauren

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I agree with Lauren.

 

If a child is not allowed to stim, for whose benefit is this being done...the child's or the parent's??

 

If a stim involves something that harms the child, such as biting their hands, then I think you can try to redirect to another, similar stim that doesn't hurt.

 

But does hand flapping actually harm anyone?? I flap my hands or clap them when I'm really excited or very stressy! :clap: (Why haven't we got a 'flappy' emoticon, Lufty?? :lol:;) )

 

It's just my opinion, obviously...but for me stopping stims comes into the same category as forcing eye contact :(

 

Bid :bat:

Edited by bid

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Tom likes to count to ten or twenty over and over again a lot of the time. He'll either just count, or he'll get his number books out and count, or he'll put his blocks in a pattern and count the blocks. Does this count as stimming?

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Leo Kanner was brighter than he was given credit for(after all he did originally support the refridgerator mother theory) as he was the first to notice that institutionalisation caused Autistics to internally disintergrate, which is what originally led to the image of the poo-smearing wreck with no future as a representation of Autism.

 

Part of the problem was exhibited inappropriate behaviours being tackled as if they were problems that needed solving or hiding without any consideration as to wether they had practical and neccessary functions. Inevitably, when an Autistic adult or child is told to stop doing something, they will continue to do it when they believe they are not being watched(Lovaas was dismayed to discover that children he made to be 'indistinguishable from their peers' only acted that way when there were adults around).

 

I for one know that hand-flapping raises core body temperature and makes my skin feel tighter, like having a hug without unwanted touches and pressure in the wrong places. People know that sometimes they need hugs and a person that never gets hugged can develop all kinds of problems, there isn't any reason to believe that the case is different with something like Autistic people and hand-flapping.

 

An awful lot of mental illnesses are caused by an exaggerated and unneccessary want to fit in, about three of the current contestents on Big Brother are suffering conditions that are wholly concerned with how they appear in relation to other people. These result in them often intefering with neccessary and natural functions they require to live.

 

If a grown man stims, who is in the wrong? Him for stimming or everyone else being so rude and staring? His stimming no doubt did no one any harm but everyones eyes and looks focused on him could have very much done him serious damage. Its understandable to look at things you find unusual or novel, but you have to also accept that where there is another person on the other end they have an equal right to courtesy and of 'privacy in public'(such as when a mother needs to breast-feed a baby right at that moment in the post office).

 

It wasn't that long ago that Downs people couldn't go out in public without being subject to stare-artillary but now I always see one Downs person a day in Harrogate and no one staring. It became normal for them to be seen, then it became normal for them to be seen unsupervised and now its normal for them to go to the pub, watch the football, get drunk with friends, stagger home(even though some have a high risk of heart complications they don't believe they should miss out on this important part of life).

 

I'm hoping Autistic people stimming in public will soon become a normal thing to see in Britain and that will happen of course after the general public get over it. I think Pete in the BB house may lead the way in this though some newspapers have described his moment in the garden with a pillow as 'some kind of fit' I'm sure some bright spark psychologist will explain to the media what a 'stim' is.

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I must admit I stop Dd from doing certain things, and now I'm feeling a bit guilty but on the other hand I've had to stop her doing quite a few things that she 'enjoyed'. i.e. walking around naked, constantly fast forwarding and rewinding dvd, chewing her hair. When I do stop her doing her 'stims' I always try to give her an alternative. She was always told if she wanted to chew on something to get some chewing gum.

 

I think it depends on the childs understanding whether to stop them or not. In my case I do try to stop what I think is unacceptable.

 

I must admit dd has been on the receiving end of hand flapping and came home from school with a bashed nose as a boy in her class was very excited at the thought of going swimming and began flapping furiously - bless.

 

Tilly

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I must admit dd has been on the receiving end of hand flapping and came home from school with a bashed nose as a boy in her class was very excited at the thought of going swimming and began flapping furiously - bless.

 

Of course there are those little accidents. reminds me of the Simpsons when Bart starts swinging his arms and says to Lisa "Well I'm just going to start doing this and if you accidently get in the way it's your own fault" and Lisa starts kicking and replies "Well I feel like kicking air, so if you just happen to be in that air when I kick it it's your own fault!" Classic.

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I know an adult with ASD who still flaps his hands at work, he just escapes to the toilet to do it. I also know of children whos parents have tried to 'normalise' them in several ways, not just the stimming, and they have ended up in a bad way, sometimes a while down the line.

 

Suppose the other thing is if I told my son he looked stupid doing something he wouldn't care less.

 

I'd prefer people doing something different, like in the pool, to be seen as normal, I mean whats wrong with being different, some people dance like fools when country music comes on, but noone mocks that and they aren't singled out because of it. Because my son jumps or flaps his arms instead of dancing doesn't make him a freak.

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Lucas

 

I just wanted to say thankyou for that insight.

 

We've never stopped The Boy from stimming, we don't even really notice it any more TBH cos it's just part of who he is. But now I feel like I understand a bit more why he does it.

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why should he not stim? if he wants to and hes not allowed then that is suppressing his feelings isnt it(im dyslexic so that might be the wrong word) my son stims and one tics and husband stims...unless a child is in danger, or endangering someone else, i would allow the stim. thats what i think.

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I for one know that hand-flapping raises core body temperature and makes my skin feel tighter, like having a hug without unwanted touches and pressure in the wrong places. People know that sometimes they need hugs and a person that never gets hugged can develop all kinds of problems, there isn't any reason to believe that the case is different with something like Autistic people and hand-flapping.

 

Thanks for that Lucas.

 

Another reason for some might be that in stress, we can lose peripheral vision and see a much narrower range of vision. One diagram I've seen shows the visual field shrunk right down, it looks a bit like looking at the world through a biro tube. When I saw the diagram I did wonder if some cases of hand flapping in the front visual field when stressed or over excited may be caused by the need to stimulate peripheral vision?

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I know an adult with ASD who still flaps his hands at work, he just escapes to the toilet to do it. I also know of children whos parents have tried to 'normalise' them in several ways, not just the stimming, and they have ended up in a bad way, sometimes a while down the line.

 

Suppose the other thing is if I told my son he looked stupid doing something he wouldn't care less.

 

I'd prefer people doing something different, like in the pool, to be seen as normal, I mean whats wrong with being different, some people dance like fools when country music comes on, but noone mocks that and they aren't singled out because of it. Because my son jumps or flaps his arms instead of dancing doesn't make him a freak.

 

Well said Lil-me,

 

H flaps when he's excited and i love to see him flap as i know he's happy, yes poeple stare but i ignore it and i'd rather have poeple stare than have an unhappy child :D:robbie:

 

Clare

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my DD started "spinning" as soon as she could walk,and i always thought it was just something she liked doing,didn't know back then it was an autistic trait,she only does it now though if shes anxious,she also flaps her hands but again mainly if shes excited or upset and to be honest its never bothered me,i definatly wouldn't try and stop her!!Her new thing at the mo is flicking light switches on and off,we have our own private disco quite often! :lol:

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