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Bagpuss

Attendance records

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Hi,

 

Would love to hear forum members opinions on this as I'm unsure about it one way or the other. Just had our youngest dd's report home. All ok, apart from when I got to the end and teacher had added "attendance a concern". First we'd heard :blink: . We've always made a point with all 3 of our kids to never ask for more than 10 days per year for hols. Usually we only take them out for 5 days, but this school year we've requested 10. However, our youngest dd has numerous hospital appointments and tends to pick up every single bug going round the school, which has led to her being off sick more than usual. Feel as if I'm being criticised, and unsure if they have a valid point or not. Its states that out of a possible 310 HALF days, our dd has had 45 authorised absences. As I've said , only 10 were requested by us for hols, the rest are illness and hospital appointments.

 

Do other forum members take their kids out of school for hols, and would you do so if your child had alot a hospital appt & illness? Our eldest two are never off,(odd days of illness etc) only the 5 or 10 days we request for hols, so its never been an issue before and they both have excellent attendance records. We've always had hols during June because we struggle to afford school holiday prices, but now having second thoughts. When I first read the comment I was furious and ready to call school in the morning but now I'm thinking should we not go on hols and should our dd's education come first?

 

If your children are off alot due to illness and hospital appointments, should you then not under any circumstances take them out for hols or do you disagree with the comment? What do you think and what have been your experiences?

 

Thanks :D

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We havent had a holiday in some time, the last time we went away neither child were at school as my youngest hadnt started yet.

 

Camerons tutor however had a week off a month or so ago so she could go on holiday, so why not?

 

I know if i wanted to go in term time i wouldnt be able to afford it!

 

Once Cameron gets a school I may feel differently tho, he has already missed 3 years so i wouldnt really want him to miss any more if i can help it.

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Translated then your DD had 22 Whole days off and one half day, of which 10 were holiday. that leaves 12 1/2 days off sick/appointments. In any one year a child can have at least 2 boughts of illness meaning they have one whole week off each time. That leaves 2 1/2 days for appointments.

 

That is just a rough breakdown. I don't know how many appointments she had or days off sick but when I look at it like that it isn't that bad.

 

Some kids catch everything going until they build up their immunity. And being the mother of one home educated child and 3 state educated I think a holiday can be just as much a learning experience as being at school.

 

Ask the head how many days they have spent lining up/sitting in pointless assemblies or children sitting quietly at the back of the class not actually doing any learning.

 

Just my take on things. But I hate state education. :ph34r:

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We've never had a problem until this year. Last Sept the HT refused to consider any holiday at all, we needed 11 days cos of flights, and he threatened us with social workers if we went, (and they had 100 per cent attendance otherwise). We complained to the governors, major row, gone on for months, contact bans from the school, etc etc finally led to us not being told about a head injury, so the kids have been pulled out for over a month now. Currently waiting for a county panel, which is supposed to be next week, but no paperwork yet, and I'm not holding my breath.

 

Fortunately came across the authority's "children missing from education" policy guidance which states that parents withdrawing their children counts as "missing from education" and the LA have to do something, its now over 20 days out, we've refused to find another school, or home educate, or send them back until our dispute is over because of welfare issues in school whilst staff are banned from talking to us. (Which is just because we made a complaint). And they cannot take us off roll.

 

And as "LEAs cannot decide not to arrange any education or to make arrangements which do not provide suitable education for that child." We're pushing for them to settle the dispute, or provide home tuition until they do.

 

This is all over holiday in term time, but the law states that HT's can authorise up to 10 days, more in exceptional circumstances. HT's don't have to authorise, but if you've got all authorised absence, I personally would ignore it, and just go. We only fought it because they refused to even consider us, we had 100 per cent attendance, and were threatened with social workers.

 

At the end of the day a family holiday does more for my kids health and wellbeing than the same 2 weeks in school, and if we can't afford to go in the school holidays, its not fair that the kids miss out. We always offer to take homework with us, (this year was the first time we got it).

 

But with the hassle I'm having, if its authorised (or even if its not but won't prompt a report to ed. social workers) then I'd just keep quiet and go.

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I take my ds#1 (aged 6) out for the full 10 days each year - 2 x 5 days usually. I don't feel remotely bad about this as my main concern when thinking holidays is to avoid busy times if at all possible - simply because a holiday is stressful enough (he does enjoy it though!) but if I book when everywhere is packed and hectic then ds simply can not cope. We tend to have odd weeks at Centre Parcs in months such as January and November although we've just been in June and it was really quiet too. I've always added this explaination to the form but no-one has ever queried it. I also believe that a family holiday can be very educational and valuable.

 

In reception ds was being assessed by the child and family unit and had a particularly bad time with his eczema so for a time had regular hospital appointments (eczmea clinc and C&F unit)2 times a week, then with a speech therapy block it seemed like he was hardly there. I don't think his final attendance was that bad though - aren't they supposed to get marks for hospital appointments?

Edited by jlp

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Hi

 

All the absences were authorised - so there's no question of you getting into hassle from the authorities. If you judge that your child's education has not suffered, and won't do so, then apply for the holiday if you like - it's for you to judge.

 

Elanor

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Schools have been told to crack down on any term time holidays. Unfortunately some parents can't get time off in school holidays time, which leaves them a bit stuck really. I know several in my sons school have been denied holidays in term time this school year.

 

We've only been away once since my son started school and that was during term time but the Head Teacher seemed to undertand that my son would find it difficult going when it is busy. This year we're going away the last week of the school holidays. Hopefully won't be too busy.

 

Never taken him abroad but must be more difficult as they need travelling time and time to recover.

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Thanks so much for all your replies :D Really appreciated.

 

We also find hols in June are much quieter and not sure we could do as much going away in summer hols or half terms. Plus we'd be broke for the entire year trying to save up for one :(

 

DH has just got back from work and read report. He's not impressed either. We will definately be speaking to teacher, who added comment.

 

I agree that the schools seem to be cracking down, and even when you go to fill out holiday forms for 5 days we are automatically handed out leaflets about taking children out of school during term time etc.

 

Just so irritating when you stick to guidelines and only take the 10 days and hospital appts and illness are all lumped in together and then viewed as attendance which causes concern. You'd think there would be a better way.

 

Sue :( Really feel for you >:D<<'> >:D<<'>

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The HT at the boys' school has made it clear in writing to all the parents that taking them on holiday during term time is against school the school policy. I'm not sure the legal stance on this but I'm sure she is entitled to refuse permission.

 

This has never bothered me much before as I've never taken them on holiday during term time; however, I'm in the process of booking a holiday to somewhere next year and comparing the prices between June and July I can see now why so many people do! I could save a third off the whole cost of the holiday by going in June instead of July/August. It's criminal that is. I'm booking it now so that I can pay for it monthly over a year otherwise I couldn't afford it but the price difference is appalling.

 

All schools have different views on this. One of my friends in Newcastle takes her children out for two weeks every June and has never had a problem with their school over it.

 

Lauren

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I'm just pondering the fact that (as mentioned in another thread) I've been phoned 4 times in the past two weeks to take DS home from school, as he can't cope with the everlasting end-of-term jollities. Next year I think he'd be much better off on holiday!

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Your so right Lauren. We never go abroad, for various reasons, and stick to UK, but even then the price doubles for a matter of a few weeks later. Its disgraceful.

 

Legally I dont think that the school has to allow you 10 days and it is totally the schools discretion as to weather they will allow it or not, although they can allow 10 days if they see fit. Think it totally depends on the HT and if they are willing to authorise it or not.

 

We've never encountered a problem before, as our eldest two are very rarely off. However with our youngest she is often absent for hospital appointments (not for entire day, just the appointment) and illness, its being viewed differently I feel. Although she does go to a different school to my other two. I know our dd's school has a terrible record of attendance with the children in general and its well below the national average and the target the government has set and the HT is trying to address it. Maybe that is why the comment has been made.

 

You would think that if they had an issue with our dd's attendance it would of been mentioned before now, and we've had plenty of meetings during this school year.

 

Lancelot :lol::clap:

Edited by Bagpuss

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At M's school the head is very strict on this one. She does authorise holiday absence but I know from friends who have done this it is then followed up with a letter telling you she does not like it.

 

I have never done it and very unlikely ever will. i think the kids get enough holiday from school and don't see the need to take them out of school for any longer. I can however see why parents do it. We go away in August every year and it is so expensive.

 

The advantage to going in August is that I have less time to deal with the kids by myself as 2 weeks are taken up with the family holiday.

 

I don't think there would be such a problem if the holiday companies didn't penalise parents for taking the kids away in their scheduled holidays.

 

mum22boys

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So true mum22 boys,

 

I've spent this morning online having a good look thru the holiday companies we tend to use to see if with some planning we may be able to change our hols from june time to august, although it isn't just a price issue with us, but also a "busy" issue with our dd. I've even been on ebay to see if that would be any cheaper

 

In June a week hols tends to be around ?300 - ?400 depending on where you go and what accommodation you chose.

 

If you chose to go a few weeks later in the school hols the prices rocketwell over ?600 for the same place and accommodation.

 

I've heard about the government trying to tackle the issue of parents asking for holidays during the term time, but I feel they really need to address the prices and holiday companies before anything positive will come of it.

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Bagpuss,

 

Yes it's true going in the school hols is a nightmare because of the amount of people about. This year i phoned the airline to see if we could get M on the plane before the others. Last year we were last to board and he shouted 'bomb' as we got to our seats. :wacko: Not a good move. He was so stressed chosing his seat out of the possible 5 we had altogether with a queue of people behind us and me trying to rush the decision that he kept shouting 'bomb'. We managed to get him to stop eventually and put it down to the london bombings. he was very affected by it as i was due to get on a train next day and go to london. he looked at the pictures in the papers for days. When the plane started to descend his ears went. He screamed for nearly an hour, until i could get the calpol out the bag!!! Then it takes him 5 days to adjust to hotel living.

 

And i'm now thinking why are we bothering to put ourselves through it again. :o

 

mum22boys

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Mum22 boys,

 

You have my full admiration for being brave enough to tackle an airport and plane :notworthy: We have enough probs just in UK within the car and "theres a car behind us, make it go away" :unsure: Your right.....why do we bother? :lol: Sometimes I feel like I could do with a holiday when I get back *BIG SIGH*

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When the boys were in primary school I did take them out for 5 days, as the only holidays we coudl afford were the bargain ones in the hoildays. They would not have been away for a holiday otherwise.

 

Last year we went in August, but only cos we got some money from the Family Fund. I had to look very hard to find a holiday for under ?350. There was only one place that was suitable, and I ended up having to pay some more.

 

We were having this discussion at a Gov meeting, and the Head couldn't understand why people had to go on holiday in term time, but I don't think she has ever had to organise a holiday for less than a ?100!

 

Now schools absence rates include authorised and unauthorised together, and they are set a target to reach. We missed our target this year due to the large number of illnesses, but there is not much we can do about that. If holidays are the only absences that schools have some power over, then they will become tougher on them.

 

Someone rang the school the other day and said they child woudl not be coming in because it was their birthday!!

 

Karen

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Birthday? Now that is taking the mick :o I've put note in home school diary to let teacher know we want to discuss our youngest dd's report, waiting to hear back at the mo. Definately going to raise it with her. The more I think about it, the more angry I'm becoming.

 

When our dd has a hospital appt, (often), we have to travel from our town to the next town to pick her up. Its about 20mins or so, and then we take her to the hospital appt, which is in another town, approx half hour away, sometimes an hour if its a different hospital , and then return her to school, and then drive home....phew :blink:

 

When she began going on school transport she was the first pick up. As more and more children began using the bus, her pick up time became earlier and earlier as the months went by. Eventually it reached a point when she was being collected at 7.30 am to begin school at 9, due to all the out lying villages etc. We were having to get up at 6 ish to get her ready each day. We were constantly being assured it would be looked at and the journey time lessened, but it never was. They made ridiculous suggestions that we put her on a dial a ride bus with no chaperone........oh, the driver has been police checked, so thats ok isn't it???!!! :o:o It reached a point where dh and I flipped. We rang transport and said either the transport was resolved or dd was staying at home (er, maybe bad idea, for us anyway :lol: ) and started banging on about government guidelines. Low and behold a taxi was provided, with chaperone, and she now travels 20 mins.

 

My point is..........none of this is mentioned in the report :rolleyes::rolleyes:

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I wanted to take daughter out for a week last week and due to how the schooll have behaved with my son I sent them an e-mail on monday saying that she wont be in for that week, they were ok about it but probably glad to see the back of us for one week anyway :P

 

So that is now what I intend to do whenever I want a holiday in term time. This one weeks holiday did do my daughter some good, was even better for me as I went away for a week on my own leaving them with my sister.

 

I think there comes a time when you need to have a break and do what is right for yourselfs.

 

I don't think that the attandence is that bad when you consider 10 days was for a holiday and appointments also take up alot of time.

 

B)

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I take tricky on holiday every year during term time. this is mainly because off peak there are less people in the holiday camp we go to. this way he is less stressed out about waiting for activities, an empty swimming pool first thing etc etc.

It's at the point now when t's ht just says "before or after the summer hol?" and automatically sends me an authorisation form which she has not quibbled about, but then i think she may enjoy the peaceful school for a week.......

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Thanks Niki and stressedmumto2 :D

 

We have to fill out holiday forms before going on hols, and have to have authorisation back from all 3 schools. We've been advised not to take them out in September due to new school year, not to take them out in May due to SAT's etc, so we always tend to pick June time, apart from this school year when we went away in November and June, but usually its just a week in June. Our dd is the same, she'd really struggle with a busy site in summer. She doesn't understand the concept of a queue :rolleyes: Plus I find we're calmer in quieter places........you know what its like if they are having a meltdown and its really busy.....makes it so much worse :(

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We are off on holiday in a week and I have taken daughter out of school. Reason on form I gave "I am unwilling to pay excessive increase in prices that follow." Having spent years working in school and having to take hols in school hols it's great to go away when it's quieter and cheaper!

Bagpuss I agree with you that untill gov't do something about holiday companies increasing prices the argument will go on.

What really annoys me though is that I ask for 5 measly days off school and have to fill in a form giving a written reason and then it's up to the head's discretion etc. Come 0.5cm of snow falling the school is shut hey presto with no warning given to parents - that doesn't show up on the attendance does it? Does my child ever get that time of education back? No of course not, so if education was all so important I will not take hols in term time when schools don't shut on some spurious pretext at a moments notice. Sometimes I wish educators would join the real world and realise that not everything stops when three flakes of snow fall!! Love Kat

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Just to play devil's advocate for a minute...

My brother and sister-in-law run a family-friendly B&B, geared up for children -- not posh, just comfy, with toys and cots and diddy swimming pool. Outside school holidays, they don't get much custom -- so they cut their prices right down for those periods, and charge more for the holidays. I don't think they can really be blamed for trying to make it pay.

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Absolutely lancelot, anyone in business is going to do that. You are going to charge more when your at your busiest. But some families have no choice but to go away other than school holidays, because otherwise they just wouldn't be able to afford to go at all. Plus I think its fair enough to have an small increase, but many of the companies we use actually double their prices for the sake of a few weeks, which in my opinion is disgraceful. Think the government really needs to address this. I'm sure there are many families going without hols because the HT refuses to authorise absence and they are completely unable to financially afford a holiday in the school hols.

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I do take them out in school time simply because we cant afford a holiday any other time. we only go for 5 days at the most, and only ever in this country.

 

when we were young my mom always took us out of school for hols and it didnt affect our education at all!

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anyhoo, another point what about all the 'teacher training days' they fit in during term time?, how come they only ever have them on monday or friday> long weekend anyone? :D

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our school have then on any random day & its sooooo annoying.....they've had them on a wednesday after a long weekend for bank holiday, so you have to take them back for the tuesday & then theyre off again then back then off for the weekend grrrr

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