onlycrazygal Report post Posted July 2, 2006 (edited) hi, not sure if anyone remembers me from a few months ago but im the disabled mum that had a 10yr old son with school refusal problems.....i had the LEA threatening me with prosecution if i didnt get him in ....i had the social services telling me they would put him on the child protection register , then he had panic attacks it was awful, i was convinced he had aspergers or something similar but no-one would listen. anyway he had a CAMHS assessment and to cut a long story short the doctor said he was fine, in turn this sparked of a core assessment of my family, it really was horrendous!!! they told me i was fabricating my sons illnesses to gain attention it used to be called msbp, then the title changed to F11 and just recently it has been re-named somatisation. anyway they put my son on the child protection register as i had withdrawn him from school, i couldnt watch him have panic attacks any longer........to the social services this was emotional harm, they said i was purposely isolating my son from his peers.......they told me they would put him on the register under physical harm also as he has a weight problem and they felt i wasnt taking it seriously enough, i was but told them that my son has rages which makes it difficult to deny him things, so i had to pick my fights carefully with him, he was destructive and could be violent when he snapped. to them , so i was told it wasnt for me to prioritise his behavioural problems and put them before his health....DUH!!! Anyway despite the restrictions we now had on our lives i was far from happy, i knew that despite there opinions and charecter assasinations my son needed help. i saved up enough money to have my son seen by an independant consultant from guilford recommended to me by my solicitor......... The outcome speaks for itself, my son was diagnosed with aspergers , tourettes, odd, adhd, and sensory integration disorder....... i am now in the throws of reporting the camhs doctor to the GMC , one missed disorder i could waver but theres no way they missed all these......i am also putting in a complaint to the GSCC about the appalling treatment we recieved from the social services and at the moment am waiting for confirmation so that i can take xxxxxx LEA (NAME REMOVED BY MODERATOR) to a judicial review as after 2years without education they still refuse to assess my sons special needs and not only that they have flatly refused to tutor him at home until he recieves treatment. i have shared this with you guys as a warning, i dont think i shall ever trust professionals again in the same way.......they have twisted truths, told blatent lies , wanted me to sign my son over to their care, demoralised and bullied us to the point where i seriously collapsed one day and screamed my head off and couldnt stop screaming....... i live in hope that one day my son will actually recieve the support he so rightly deserves, until then we are isolated together, with the ss still in our lives scrutinising everything we do.....it has to get better, i hope this post will serve to help others to follow there gut when it comes to there children........im not saying everyone is the same but there were obvious reasons as to why we recieved and are still not recieving any help.... thank you so much for taking the time to read this......bless! hugs, paula... Edited July 2, 2006 by phasmid Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lynden Report post Posted July 2, 2006 Oh my goodness Paula - what a horrific time you've had - I can't believe they went as far as to say you had MSBP!! I'm glad you finally got a diagnosis and I hope you get some results when you take them all to task - your treatment has been horrendous. I hope life gets better for you and your son now. Lynne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elouise Report post Posted July 2, 2006 I am pretty certain you would have a case to lamp that Social Services department for disability descrimination for decideding you had to be a poor parent as look you have a disability...they used the medical model and not the social that they should have used under current practise. Your solicetor should be able to help get you in contact with the correct disability discrimination lobby groups. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fionamg Report post Posted July 2, 2006 (edited) Hi Paula Unfortunatly you are not alone. A friend of mine is going through almost exactly the same thing. It is frightening to read that it is happening to others as I am appalled by what is going on with my friend. Fiona hi, not sure if anyone remembers me from a few months ago but im the disabled mum that had a 10yr old son with school refusal problems.....i had the LEA threatening me with prosecution if i didnt get him in ....i had the social services telling me they would put him on the child protection register , then he had panic attacks it was awful, i was convinced he had aspergers or something similar but no-one would listen. anyway he had a CAMHS assessment and to cut a long story short the doctor said he was fine, in turn this sparked of a core assessment of my family, it really was horrendous!!! they told me i was fabricating my sons illnesses to gain attention it used to be called msbp, then the title changed to F11 and just recently it has been re-named somatisation. anyway they put my son on the child protection register as i had withdrawn him from school, i couldnt watch him have panic attacks any longer........to the social services this was emotional harm, they said i was purposely isolating my son from his peers.......they told me they would put him on the register under physical harm also as he has a weight problem and they felt i wasnt taking it seriously enough, i was but told them that my son has rages which makes it difficult to deny him things, so i had to pick my fights carefully with him, he was destructive and could be violent when he snapped. to them , so i was told it wasnt for me to prioritise his behavioural problems and put them before his health....DUH!!! Anyway despite the restrictions we now had on our lives i was far from happy, i knew that despite there opinions and charecter assasinations my son needed help. i saved up enough money to have my son seen by an independant consultant from guilford recommended to me by my solicitor......... The outcome speaks for itself, my son was diagnosed with aspergers , tourettes, odd, adhd, and sensory integration disorder....... i am now in the throws of reporting the camhs doctor to the GMC , one missed disorder i could waver but theres no way they missed all these......i am also putting in a complaint to the GSCC about the appalling treatment we recieved from the social services and at the moment am waiting for confirmation so that i can take XXXXXX LEA to a judicial review as after 2years without education they still refuse to assess my sons special needs and not only that they have flatly refused to tutor him at home until he recieves treatment. i have shared this with you guys as a warning, i dont think i shall ever trust professionals again in the same way.......they have twisted truths, told blatent lies , wanted me to sign my son over to their care, demoralised and bullied us to the point where i seriously collapsed one day and screamed my head off and couldnt stop screaming....... i live in hope that one day my son will actually recieve the support he so rightly deserves, until then we are isolated together, with the ss still in our lives scrutinising everything we do.....it has to get better, i hope this post will serve to help others to follow there gut when it comes to there children........im not saying everyone is the same but there were obvious reasons as to why we recieved and are still not recieving any help.... thank you so much for taking the time to read this......bless! hugs, paula... Edited July 2, 2006 by phasmid Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Suze Report post Posted July 2, 2006 <'> Paula I do remember your posts..........thank the lord that you saw this private consultant..........words can,t describe what you,ve been through.........do you have any organisations helping you??.............your terrible experience needs a voice I wish your story could recieve national atttention so that those proffessionals could be made accountable.It sounds like they joined forces and ganged up on you quite deliberately..........Suzex Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justamom Report post Posted July 2, 2006 I too remember your post, my god you have been thru alot.... Bunch of so and so's saying that you have MSBP. I think Suze is right you need to have your story published, have you thought about contacting anyone so that these people can be shown up for what they really are.....???? GMTV or someone its worth a try?? Keep strong!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phasmid Report post Posted July 2, 2006 Yours is an unusual, but I am sure not unique situation. First part of the equation is your needs due to your own disability issues. Has a review of your needs ever been suggested or carried out? You should be receiving support here not condemnation. Second part is your needs as a career of two children with disability issues, these too should have been assessed and support put into place. Third part is your your sons needs as they appear to be carers for you as much as you are for them by the sound of it - they also have needs that need to be addressed because of this. Quite frankly your SS dept have let you and your children down big time. They should be offering to assist you and your children with ways to help you all not punish you. At this point in time I would suggest it might be beneficial to contact your MP (regardless of your or their political stance) and ask them to help you. This normally brings about some action. Also consider whether or not it would benefit you to make your situation public. What you must not do is allow the SS to brow-beat you into doing anything against your will. I would think that in all honesty this is going to be a pretty rough ride for you so be prepared for a fight. Hi Paula, above is one of my responses to your original thread. I'm both glad and sorry that my original thoughts on this have proven to be right. Glad because you have finally been proven to be correct regarding your son's difficulties. Sad because, as I said in the last line, things got really rough for you before you have got to where you are now. Is all this down to just bad luck or is it due to incompetence...I don't think it's the former, lets put it that way. I stand in admiration of you. You have had one hell of a fight to date, and I don't think its quite over just yet somehow. Steal yourself for the next bit. You're going to be fought tooth and nail by the same people who did not (would not) see what you could see and they are not going to like your actions now one little bit. You have come this far...for gods sake don't let them get away with this. They have let you down badly, as I said above, you deserve an official apology at the very, very least. Make the b*ggers listen, make the b*ggers apologise - you are one hell of a mum! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smiley Report post Posted July 2, 2006 Hi Paula <'> I remember reading your posts - i'm so very, very pleased that things are finally going in the right direction for you and your son. I'm appauled at what you have had to go through........ Your son is very lucky to have a mum like you <'> Phas put it perfectly...... Make the b*ggers listen, make the b*ggers apologise - you are one hell of a mum! <'> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fionamg Report post Posted July 2, 2006 Hi Paula Please could you give me the name of the specialist that you saw in Guilford. My friend could do with getting a proper assessment for her son. Thanks Fiona Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zemanski Report post Posted July 2, 2006 puts some of our troubles into perspective - stay strong Adele Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stressedmumto2 Report post Posted July 2, 2006 This story is all too familiar. School, Social Services, LEA all trying to say it's family issues and problems only with mum, attachment disorder it must be. Well done to you for not giving up and not letting them brain-wash you, there comes a time when you even start to think maybe it is you (certainly did with me anyway). Stay strong and keep fighting for the wrong they have done to you and your children. I admire your strength and courage to take it further <'> <'> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viper Report post Posted July 2, 2006 How dare they, how bl*ddy dare they? I can't believe what you have been through, it would be laughable if it wasn't so damned awful. So called professionals victimising an innocent person. Words can't say how angry it makes me. I too remember your original post and I am sad to say it put me off pushing for more help with my son and am now looking into the private assessment route. I had the SS sent to me when I took my son out of school to HE him. The school also said I was isolating my son from his peers and that I had failed to toilet train him. Ben still has no diagnosis, even Guys hospital team have failed us. People, usually professionals ask why we want a diagnosis, well this is one very good reason, to stop us being labeled with things like MSBP and having the weight of the "experts" on our backs. Your story should be heard. You can contact any paper with your story, I am sure they will be more than interested. I would also push for your child to be removed from the register. Thank you for sharing your awful experiences with us and well done for fighting so hard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lynyona Report post Posted July 2, 2006 I think it is appauling the way you have been treated paula it is utterly disgusting and it is quite frightening that you here far to many cases like this.We has parents are expected to take what the proffesionals say as gospel,when you here people say "i dont want anything to do with social services" you can understand why people dont bother maybe it is a god thing that i dont have a group of proffesional support.But then again why should you have to go without any support you need in fear that a situation like yours could easily arise.Goodluck with you complaints etc you deserve to get somewhere with them as you have gone through so much. lynn Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tabz2711 Report post Posted July 2, 2006 Hi Paula lets hope this terrible nightmare is coming to an end and you get all the support you and your son needs. The power of those ignorant professionals is frightening. Be strong I am sure there will be many battles ahead these bullies should not get away with their behaviour to you and your poor son who should have receiving help two years ago <'> <'> <'> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tez Report post Posted July 2, 2006 Well done you for staying strong and fighting the system. I hope that all your troubles are soon over and that you and your son get the help you need but unfortunately, judging from what you've written the fight continues. Thank you for sharing your experience. I agree that this is something that we all need to be aware of. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loulou Report post Posted July 2, 2006 Hi Paula, I can't even describe how i felt after reading your post, except it made me feel physically sick that you and your family have been treated like this. It's utterly shocking. You are a fantastic, strong woman . I'm actually pretty speechless but i'd just like to send you lots of <'> . I hope you find this site gives you the support you need. Loulou xxx Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
annie Report post Posted July 2, 2006 <'> Paula <'> Hang on in there. You've got a diagnosis for your son now. That is one big step forward in the right direction. My heart goes out to you and I admire you for standing your ground. Annie xx Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tylers-mum Report post Posted July 2, 2006 Paula. So glad things are picking up for both you and your son. Unfortunately, you aren't the first and you won't be the last. I went through similar things with my son. He was 2yrs old when Social Services removed my son from me for 6long weeks over the Christmas period. I then had to fight tooth and nail to win him back and once that was achieved, I had a further 4yr battle to get him referred for ASD testing. He was finally dx HFA in Nov '05 but the battles don't end there. They are ongoing and there is always something that needs to be fought for to give our kids their just deserves. As the saying goes, 'Special kids are only given to special Mum's'. Hang in there hun and go for the jugular if you have the strength to! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kathryn Report post Posted July 2, 2006 Paula, This is an incredible story - you are one tough lady. for getting this far and fighting on. Good luck! K x Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
onlycrazygal Report post Posted July 2, 2006 im totally beside myself with emotion reading all these replies!!!!!!!! you guys remembered me, im so very touched .......... phasmid , bless your heart , thanks so much for your kind words, and by the way , up until this present time the ss are insisting that i will not fit the criteria for an assessment and neither will my son, SUPRISED, i am not, i have a visit tomorrow from sworker and will keep you posted of events......if ever i have felt true recognition of the fight we have been through it has most definately been tonight thanks to you guys...... if anyone knows where i could go public with this story then i would be very interested to.....i feel i must warn others, that professionals are not all there cracked up to be, i will use names in article also im not afraid of them........ now im going to slink off for a good old cry, you are all so very nice too me bless!!!! <'> hugs , paula x Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bagpuss Report post Posted July 2, 2006 OMG Paula, your story is truly shocking <'> Thankfully you hung in there and fought, what an utter disgrace I hope your story is goes further than this forum. You are an absolute inspiration Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
madme Report post Posted July 3, 2006 Well done for surviving. I know someone who has had this MSBP label thrown at her and the dx of her children removed - it has taken nearly three years and moving to get the dx back and she still feels under suspicion. This is one of the reasons i get my hubbie to take my DD to her paed appts -he also did a lot of my sons appts. We did have the lea ed psch make some suggestive comments once but he backed off when threatened with reporting to his proff body. Good luck. Bill Bache is a good solicitor in the area. Sure GMTV would be interested or even the Tonight programme. I believe the Daily Mail would be worth thinking of. Good luck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marshmallow Report post Posted July 3, 2006 <'> I'm so sorry you had to go through all that. It made me want to just reading it. I Hope life gets easier now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jen Report post Posted July 3, 2006 A lady I know is going through the same difficulties as you are. It appears in her case because she is disabled and confirned to a wheel chair they treat her like a person with out no brain. At the moment her son is still not diagnosed. Jen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lotty Report post Posted July 3, 2006 yes, 18 months ago, i was told that my childrens symptoms were abuse, extreme manipulation and so on, neglect etc. 18 months on cahms appointment finally came through and low and behold they do have real difficulties to, its awful you have to be so careful Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phasmid Report post Posted July 3, 2006 How did the sw visit go? Or when you wrote that did you mean tomorrow rather than today? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
onlycrazygal Report post Posted July 4, 2006 i cant believe the powers that be can be so shocking towards vunerable people, then again maybe this is precisely why they do it.....grrrrrr i cant stand to think of anyone else going through it the way we have the ******** ok rant over from the ss visit today i get the feeling its going to court as they feel i havent co-operated adequately regarding my sons health issues (his weight) ive been to the stupid doctors and he said the ss will sort out referal to dietician, i also asked for referal to get his tummy sorted as he has constant headaches , tummyaches, and chronic constipation, hes been put on gaviscon from the age of 5yrs has lactolose etc but it doesnt deal with the cause anyway the doc said he wouldnt refer me and simply gave me more lactolose. i told the ss and she doesnt believe me.......the other reason they seem to think i neglect his health is becos they wanted con to have blood tests to rule out other causes for his obesity, thing was con dug his heels in and refused to go as he was scared...... the bottom line is i only have so much control were cons eating is concerned, if i deny him something he really wants he rages out of control throws everything in sight and can be violent . im disabled guys, i cant handle him when he lets rip.........i honestly feel that my son cannot tell when hes full as he has a lot of sensory issues........ thing is im getting quite worried as my son is 10yrs old, 5ft 1 has size 6 feet and unfortunately weighs 13stone, he needs help so badly just dont no where to turn...... the sw today said as far as services go we wouldnt get any help, she said the only thing that can be suggested is to send him to behavioural modification programme. dont like the sound of that to be honest.......dont trust them .......they see myself and my son as a massive drain on LA resources, anyway court is the option they keep throwing up at me , so be it.......cons dr from guilford is the best there is, hes highly respected and is used to the court system. apparently ss arnt happy with him at all as he did not consult ss before he assessed him and did not correspond with the camhs doctor either . it seems it is grossly unprofessional so they say...... hugs, paula Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Suze Report post Posted July 4, 2006 Is there any way you can get these blood tests done?...........could the gp do a home visit??...........Obviously if there is an underlying problem you need to know.........have they checked for diabetes? hugs Suzex Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fionamg Report post Posted July 4, 2006 Hi Paula My friend is going to court on Thursday, ss are going for a care order. Her son also has rages which I have experienced and no-one could cope with them, disabled or not, and he is not 13 stone. They are saying his rages are because she sets no boundaries and the sw says there's nothing wrong with him. He also has issues around food except that he doesn't eat anything and is very light and also suffers from constipation. Please could you give me the name of your doctor in Guilford as she could do with an independant assessment. Thanks and good luck Fiona Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Karen A Report post Posted July 4, 2006 Really sorry that you have had such a dreadful time.But thanks for sharing your experiences.It has made me much more aware of the need to be vigilant about what I decide to say to professionals.If you never get further than telling your story here I am sure it will have reached many individuals who will now be more aware.KarenA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mel Report post Posted July 4, 2006 <'> im so sorry you had such a bad time. <'> I just wish we could all stand together shoulder by shoulder outside the houses of parliament and insist they make the diagnosis/ LEA process easier and more open. You have been treated in such a disgusting way by the so called experts. they really should be brought to book for this. Good luck with your battle, Your son is lucky to have such a strong caring mum <'> <'> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paula Report post Posted July 4, 2006 <'> <'> <'> <'> <'> <'> <'> <'> <'> Just dont know what to say. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AmyNelson Report post Posted July 4, 2006 i cant believe the powers that be can be so shocking towards vunerable people, then again maybe this is precisely why they do it.....grrrrrr i cant stand to think of anyone else going through it the way we have the ******** ok rant over from the ss visit today i get the feeling its going to court as they feel i havent co-operated adequately regarding my sons health issues (his weight) ive been to the stupid doctors and he said the ss will sort out referal to dietician, i also asked for referal to get his tummy sorted as he has constant headaches , tummyaches, and chronic constipation, hes been put on gaviscon from the age of 5yrs has lactolose etc but it doesnt deal with the cause anyway the doc said he wouldnt refer me and simply gave me more lactolose. i told the ss and she doesnt believe me.......the other reason they seem to think i neglect his health is becos they wanted con to have blood tests to rule out other causes for his obesity, thing was con dug his heels in and refused to go as he was scared...... the bottom line is i only have so much control were cons eating is concerned, if i deny him something he really wants he rages out of control throws everything in sight and can be violent . im disabled guys, i cant handle him when he lets rip.........i honestly feel that my son cannot tell when hes full as he has a lot of sensory issues........ thing is im getting quite worried as my son is 10yrs old, 5ft 1 has size 6 feet and unfortunately weighs 13stone, he needs help so badly just dont no where to turn...... the sw today said as far as services go we wouldnt get any help, she said the only thing that can be suggested is to send him to behavioural modification programme. dont like the sound of that to be honest.......dont trust them .......they see myself and my son as a massive drain on LA resources, anyway court is the option they keep throwing up at me , so be it.......cons dr from guilford is the best there is, hes highly respected and is used to the court system. apparently ss arnt happy with him at all as he did not consult ss before he assessed him and did not correspond with the camhs doctor either . it seems it is grossly unprofessional so they say...... hugs, paula Your story was similar to others I have seen, where professioanals don't believe that a child has a condition. They are very quick to blame parents. Can I suggest something just for you to look at? I don't know you or your son at all so it's just a wild guess that might be worth eliminating - Prader Willi Syndrome. It causes the child to feel very hungry and get very upset when they can't eat. It's genetic and may have connections with the spectrum, I know one boy on the spectrum who has it. They gain a lot of weight and it needs careful management. Just thought I should mention it in case you had not looked into it yet. Info http://pwsa.co.uk/main.php Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phasmid Report post Posted July 4, 2006 Yes, PWS does spring to mind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
onlycrazygal Report post Posted July 4, 2006 (edited) ok fiona....... his name is [deleted by moderator], hes one of the best in the country love, he taught for a long time in austrailia and is also an educational specialist, also from 1997-2004 was an assessor for the GMC i will send you his number privately love, i had to pay for the consultation it was ?600 but hes very thorough and is no stranger to writing reports for the high courts.... hugs, paula [Paula, we prefer not to name professionals on the forum...PMs are good for exchanging this kind of information...Bid] Hi Paula My friend is going to court on Thursday, ss are going for a care order. Her son also has rages which I have experienced and no-one could cope with them, disabled or not, and he is not 13 stone. They are saying his rages are because she sets no boundaries and the sw says there's nothing wrong with him. He also has issues around food except that he doesn't eat anything and is very light and also suffers from constipation. Please could you give me the name of your doctor in Guilford as she could do with an independant assessment. Thanks and good luck Fiona Edited July 4, 2006 by bid Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
onlycrazygal Report post Posted July 4, 2006 prader willi syndrome......ok il look into it thanks for that Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fionamg Report post Posted July 5, 2006 Sorry Bid, my fault. I didn't realise Fiona [Paula, we prefer not to name professionals on the forum...PMs are good for exchanging this kind of information...Bid] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cmuir Report post Posted July 5, 2006 Hi You've got real courage and strength and I think your son's very lucky to have you as his mother. Take them all the way. It's the only way that people like your LEA can be made an example of and encourage change for the better/others. I know how it feels when others (eg Paed, Nursery Manager, GP, Health Visitor) all tell you that there's nothing wrong. It feels ######! 'Fraid I'm a stubborn so-and-so that doesn't give up easily. Got a diagnosis on 5 May this year for my 4.5 year old son and boy did it feel good to prove them wrong. Have to say, more importantly it was a real victory because it means that my son will now hopefully get the help he needs. Sounds like your made of strong stuff. Be proud of yourself! Best wishes. Caroline. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flora Report post Posted July 5, 2006 Paula <'> You've really been through the mill and had a rotten time of it. It's criminal what you and your family have had to suffer at the hands of these do gooders. I remember watching your story unfold on another forum that I don't post on, and was horrified. What is it about SS that they just don't seem to get the balance right?? They ignore the plight of children who are genuinely at risk and plague and torture the lives of families who need support not interogation You are one strong and gutsy woman to have gone through all that and come out the other end fighting. I hope this nasty episode is now coming to an end and that you and your family can get support and are allowed to live in peace. Lauren <'> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
onlycrazygal Report post Posted July 5, 2006 thanks lauren, you raise an interesting point as to why the ss seem always to crucify the vunerable also miss vital and generally quite obvious clues when theres a child really in danger. i have my own thoughts on this an i believe that the ss unfortunately are spineless in that they prey on the weak and vunerable as we are the easy targets, they have no desire to put themselves at risk by tackling the real nasty lowlifes, they dont want to risk any physical comebacks from such ppl.....and this is where the fatal mistake is made where childrens lives are really at risk, but they prefer to turn a blind eye and remain safe. they mistook me for some dumb blonde with a dysfunctional family background, they had no idea that a mothers love for her child is a bond that not even they can break. they can try and play mind games and document lies but it just gets me so angry that in turn makes me so determined to expose them and i will......thanks for your kind words they mean a lot , hugs, paula Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
