Anti-depressants for anxiety

[Lisajb]

Hi I only just found this site. I am posting everywhere trying to find some help. I have a 14 yo son who was dx with As in June. He is statemented, in mainstream, very high functioning, school wonderfully supportive BUT

 

he is at the mo extremely anxious, gets very stressed, if you talk to him he says that lifes is just all too much, school, friends, relationships, homework (we are 18 months from GCSE's) everything. I do no know what to do to help him, I don't know where to turn. We are off to see our gp this am, who whilst being a lovely chap, in common with most GP's his experience of Aspergers is limited. I suspect they will probably dish out some prozac. Does anyone have any info on prozac being used for individuals with AS - any good? Or does anyone have any other ideas - I am desperate and at my wits end.

 

Thanks for listening

Lisa

[tinytrace]

hi lisa

 

welcolme to the site

 

im affraid i dont know about medication from the doctor for AS as mine siad there wasnt really and, but i have heard about somthing called eye que witch is suppozed to be great (we havent tried it yet as son is managing at the mo)

have you asked the school if there is any way they can help with the exams, my son is 13 in january and the school are already looking for ways to help when it gets to that time including applying for extra time in the exam to relieve the pressure a bit

hope things get better soon

 

tracey xx

[tinytrace]

oops

soz on spelling i dont do mornings

[nellie]

Hi Lisa

 

Sorry to hear you are having such a tough time of it. Emotional and mental health issues can become a problem with aperger syndrome. Teenage years are difficult for anyone to cope with but AS teenagers have it particularly tough.

 

Maybe you could go back to the person who diagnosed and explain your sons difficulties. It's really difficult when no help or support is given after diagnosis, you are just expected to be an expert and get on with it.

 

You are correct when you say it is unlikely that your GP will understand, maybe he could refer your son to a paediatrician, if the paediatrician is unable to help due to lack of knowledge they may be able to refer him to a CAMS - Child and Adolescent Mental Health Service. It is important that he is treated by someone who has an understanding of AS.

 

There are some excellent web sites and books which may help him understand. Luke Jackson in particular. Details are on this website.

 

It may be that his needs are not being met at school. Meeting with the school or bringing forward his annual review may help the situation. Maybe he needs more LSA support.

 

Hope this is of some help

 

Nellie.

[Lisajb]

Thanks everyone who's replied so far. Heres an update for you.

 

Well we went to gp this am, he says he will refer Chris today to a psychologist and refer him back to members of the team who dx'd him. This he will do today so I hope we don't have to wait too long.

 

Chris says that when he tries to tell "people" ( I can only assume he means teachers) that he's upset they dismiss it and tell him to go and sit down. So it looks like a few phone calls to school need to be made.

 

Originally when the idea of him having AS first came up, I was told that social skills, the thing that he struggles most with, could be taught, but was never told who by or where to go for this. At the time of his dx, I raised this again but the psychologist informed me that "there was no need, Chris was doing quite well on his own but they would be looking at his fine and gross motor skills" Did I miss something here?

 

We see the paediatrician every six months or so but nothing ever seems to happen as a result. Yes at the time of his dx Chris was doing fine socially, but not any more. Now I need some help!

 

Thanks again

Lisa

PS where can I get EyeQ from?

[Elanor]

Hi Lisa

 

Good news that your GP will refer you, and that your son's opened up a bit about the school. I was wondering whether you could just call the paediatrician? I can call my son's consultant if I have problems, and bring forward our regular appointments. Also wouldn't it be better for your son to be seen by someone who already knows him?

 

As for anti-depressants, I attended a parent's support group meeting last week at which a CAMS specialist consultant gave a talk on medication. Whilst its true that there is no medical treatment for AS, there is medical treatment for the disorders which often occur in AS children - eg depression, ADHD, anxiety disorders, obsessive compulsive disorder, psychosis and others. From what I have heard and read, anti-depressants are often prescribed for adolsescents (and younger children) with AS. Its not surprising that youngsters with this condition suffer from anxiety and depression - the most important thing is that you're aware of your son's problems and are helping him deal with them. Good luck.

 

Elanor

[tinytrace]

hi lisa

 

you should be able to get eyeQ from alternative remedy shops and im sure boots and superdrug used to stock it.

 

tracey xx

[lisa]

Lisa,

 

Boots definately sell Eye Q. My mum bought some for Jack last year, before he was diagnosed because it's supposed to help with ADHD, concentration and memory, that sort of thing. I decided I'd take it too but the trouble was I kept forgetting, hence the reason I need to take it!!! I gave up in the end. It's a blend of fish oils, very expensive, and takes 3 months before it works according to the packet. I think St. Johns Wort is a homepathic anti-depressent.

 

Lisa

[Elanor]

My 9 year old son was diagnosed with mild Asperger's 2 years ago. His behaviour can be very irritable and aggressive, with horrific meltdowns. I can't always tell when he'd just being naughty, or really responding to the anxiety that comes from his underlying AS.

 

I think that I've underestimated the level of anxiety which he suffers, and someone has suggested that I try him on anti-depressants for a trial period, to see if it helps.

 

Does anyone have any advice, experience or views on this? I'd also be interested in the specific brands that people know about.

 

Elanor

[Lisajb]

Ummm, no. Have just had to take my 14 yo to docs with similar thing, and rather assumed he would just dish out some prozac, but he has decided to refer him to psychologist. (not to say that psychologist won't do this tho)

 

I have taken prozac myself this year, didnt feel that it was doing much, and hubby wasnt keen on the idea at all, but now Im without it I feel just as low as before, so maybe it did do something!

 

I have found some bits and pieces on the web about the use of antidepressants for anxiety within ASD's but I didn't feel that what I found was particularly helpful to me.

 

Sorry can't be of more help, but I do sympathise, being in a similar scenario myself.

Lisa

[tinytrace]

hi lisa

 

my son is exactally the same and i took him to the docs for some help

he gave me 'vallergan',which is what they used to pescribe before ritalin and is alot milder, for when he has meltdowns or is going into a situation where he is likly to have one, and suggested that i gave him nytol as most AS kids dont sleep alot i was a bit worried about the nytol as its not supposed to be used under 16 (hes 12) but hes been alot better

 

we went to visit family 4hrs drive away so we gave him a dose of this 'vallergan' and normally within 30mins he would be having a major meltdown in the back of the car for the rest of the jorney but he was fantastic he took an interest in what was going on and was even playing games with his siblings (all 4 of them) and normally he only fights with them

 

he is also now seeing a counceller but thats only just started so we are waiting to see if it helps

 

tracey xx

[Elefan]

Hiya,

 

My little girl was prescribed vallergan, with it being described to me as a sedative to help her sleep and let her switch off. I was unaware that it was what was used pre-ritolin!

We tried it, not telling her what it was, but saying it was for her hayfever (which she had at the time also). I knew she would refuse it if I told the truth. Regardless, she 'worked through' the symptoms of drowsines it caused, only to go off the rails completely instead!! We tried it about a further two times, but decided it actually made things worse. It was sad seeing her tired little body so badly crying out for sleep, but being deprived of it by her anxiety ridden and over active mind.

 

Glad it worked for you though.

 

Can I just take the opportunity here to remind everyone to speak to their GP's regarding medications and perhaps even some of the over the counter stuff too, as it may clash with anything else your child is taking. I am acutely aware that medications can be sold over the internet, but please never be tempted to 'prescribe' yourself. Sorry, not intending to state the obvious, but whilst the subject is being discussed, we have a responsibility as forum hosts to ensure that we emphasise the dangers.

 

Hope you understand.

 

Elefan

[tinytrace]

well said Elefan

 

and i dont think your stating the obvious its suprising how many people are tempted to do this

 

i for one would never buy stuff like that even if it was somthing id used before as you couldn't tell if anything had been added to it, much safer to get from a shop chemist or doctor

 

tracey xx

[Lisajb]

Note to self: be very alert if they suggest vallergan! Glad it worked for you trace, its important for us to remember that the effects of drugs aren't predictable, even more so in our children.

 

Is vallergan related to phenergan, anyone know? Phenergan is the stuff thats mixed with pethidine for women in labour, its an anti sickness drug with sedative effects. We tried it on Chris for a flight to Malta once, we were told it would knock him out by the pharmacist ( he was tending to be very hyper at the time).

 

It had the opposite effect to knocking him out, the same sort of effects as you noticed with your daughter Elefan, half of him desperately tired, and the other half not allowing the rest. The bottle went in the bin as soon as we arrived. I'm cautious about using drugs or antidepressants to relieve his current state, but it may come to that in the end

Lisa

[Elanor]

Thanks everyone for your replies

 

We tried Phenergan (it can be got over the counter at pharmacies), but its not strong enough to have any effect on my son.

 

I have an appointment next week to see my son's consultant (he had a cancellation, thank goodness), so I'll let you know what he suggests.

[Elefan]

We use Phenergan on our NON-ASD daughter,...for her awful travel sickness. It works like a dream!

 

However, I have been told my my GP that anything that causes drowsiness in most children can have the opposite effect in ASD children!!

 

The Psychiatrist for my ASD girl was not at all surprised the vallergan failed!!! (It was prescribed by our local GP whilst we awaited our first consultation).

 

 

Take care all,

 

Elefan

[spottedpelican]

I know this is a bit old but I have a suggestion that some may be interested in:

 

the health food store has lots of 'natural' remidies such as:

magnesium - as a muscle relaxant

evening primrose oil - yes, you read correctly, what lots of females use regularly, it helps to relax us, our hormones etc, why woudln't it work?

fish oil - good brain food, helps to 'babance' things in your head.

 

There are also many many more.

 

The best thing to do if you are interested is to speak to a respectable health food store/provider about your childs needs and don't forget to confirm that none of it will react badly with any prescribed medication. eg. st johns wort is a great anti depressant, but can not be mixed with other similar products. it is also available only on prescription in many eurpoean countries. (Oz can still purchase it 'off the shelf').

 

One thing I keep in mind is to do a little research, chinese medicines or other similar remedies are very old and 'tried and true' even prescribed medications are starting to reflect some of these 'herbs' etc. So, if it's been used since the begining of time, then there must be something useful in it.

 

spottedpelican

[bid]

Hi Elanor,

My 14 year old son was presribed Lustral (Sertraline) nearly a year ago, after his anxiety levels had become so aute that he was seriously self-harming and had developed motor and vocal tics.

He was started on a tiny dose, and this was increased until we were happy that he was much better and not showing any side effects.

His self-harming behaviour and tics have been dramatically improved, although they still happen a little when he is very stressed, but before it was nearly all the time.

His consultant also carried out various tests to establish his mental state before the medication was started, and when these were repeated after 6 months there was a marked improvement in his feelings of anxiety, anger, self-esteem, etc.

So, I would say the Lustral has helped my son, but it is carefully monitored, and seen as a short-term help, hopefully to be reduced after his GCSE's.

It is a daunting step to take, but sometimes our children do need medication to improve their quality of life. Above all, don't feel guilty if you do choose to try medication - we are all just trying to do the best for our children in incredibably difficult circumstances.

Good luck, and I hope you find the help you need.

Bid

[Elanor]

Bid

 

Thank you for your post - I hope your son continues his improvement.

 

Since December, when things yet again reached crisis point, my son has been taking Risperidone (an anti-psycotic). In the end we decided against anti-depressants principally because we needed immediate help, and the Prozac would have taken up to 3 weeks to work. Our consultant pychiatrist was happy to prescribe either medication. I've posted on this topic under 'medication' (or something similar), but didn't update here.

 

We've seen a significant improvement in my son's anxiety levels and behaviour. Ultimately I came to share your view that at times, we do need to resort to medication, and now I feel uneasy about it rather than guilty.

[pennyindorset]

My son too got very aggressive,violent and had meltdowns, he s now on risperdal which i think is the best drug he s been on yet, he still has his moments but not on a daily basis like before.

[3Mississippi]

In the US here it is very common to be on a cocktail of medications, although, I personally do not think it is right for all people. Many medications here are way overused.

[Deblegs]

Dear All

 

I am on a low dose of Amytriptyline. I take 1 50mg tablet each night. I am also on a low dose of Pyroxetine Hydrochloride. I take one a day. I have had some other difficuties as well.

 

I have heard that people with AS who take antidepressents say they are very helpful.

 

They have helped me too.

 

From Debbie

[mbrown]

Hello Everyone, I too have taken amitryptyline in the past. the longest period was for about a year. The good thing about that particular drug is that it is non-addictive which avoids more problems when trying to stop taking it.

 

I have always thought of such medication for an AS child to be a sort of last resort but I would not let my prejuduices prevent my boy getting such treatment if it was completely in his own best interests.

 

I am a believer in trying to take a positive mental approach to anxiety and depression. There are many good sites online that cater for this.

 

I heard on the radio today of a drug free program of help for anxiety and depression. It is basically a computer programme that provides cognitive therapy and offers advice and strategies on self help. It sounded really good. Unfortunately i didn't catch it all but it was on radio 4. It might be possible to learn about it from the BBC web site.

 

Hang on in there whether it's you or a loved one needing the treatment.

Take care

 

Mike

[Tez]

Saw psychiatrist with my son on Monday and she feels that we should be considering medication for his anxiety and depression. She discussed at length with me the government's current stance on counselling over medication and the guidance suggesting that SSRIs should not be prescribed to adolescents. Despite this she still feels that my son would probably benefit from trying them and has left it with me to think about.

 

My husband took Prozac so I am aware of the pros and cons that he experienced but I wondered if anybody had any experience of AS teenagers taking it and the benefits and side effects that they experienced.

 

Also any advice on alternatives that other teenagers with AS have tried and their experience of them.

[nellie]

Tez

 

My son was given Prozac at 19 for depression, it didn't help so the doctor doubled the dose, he became suicidal, so they tripled it!! He ended up having to admit himself into hospital for his own safety.

 

I'm no expert on medication and I am not saying that everyone on Prozac will have have the same experience. Just wanted you to know how it was for us.

 

Nellie xx

[Tez]

Thanks Nellie,

 

I'm sorry that you had such a bad experience with your son. My step son has suicidal tendencies and I know just how difficult that can be to cope with. I am also aware that this is one of the reasons that SSRIs are not generally recommended for adolescents and I think that is one of my concerns. I have read some research that suggests that when it is used in conjunction with cognitive behavioural therapy the risk of suicidial tendencies developing is significantly decreased but I think that I would still be concerned even if he was offered cba along side it.

 

However, I am aware that my son is very anxious and depressed and that even without medication suicide is a concern. We have tried working closely with the school to try and eradicate his stress triggers as far as possible but things do not seem to be improving so I do need to consider medication. Has anyone any experience of any drugs that have worked to lower anxiety and depression in AS teenagers which do not have the same side effects as SSRIs?

[Kathryn]

My daughter had a brief spell of taking an SSRI and it didn't agree with her. We are back on the amytriptyline which helps her sleep and stops anxious thoughts at night. The psych wanted to increase the dose but I don't want to as it dopes her during the day and seems to give her problems with balance. Her anxiety tends to be related to particular thoughts and feelings associated with past experiences of school and we are reluctant just to drug her withougt the appropriate therapy to enable her to deal with these feelings. Until we find this, we will keep her on the minimal dose.

[Stardust]

Hello everyone.

 

My son is just 10 years old. About this time last year he went horribly downhill and we did not know why. We did know though that we had a child, although adored, was terribly hard work.

 

I took him to our GP who diagnosed clinical depression. She arranged for an urgent appointment with a clinical psychiatrist and clinical psychologist as my son had tried to strangle himself.

 

The three experts then agreed to agree to the diagnosis and he was prescribed Prozac. Please note that this took 6 months from the GP's diagnosis until he was finally prescribed the medication.

 

Since then, we have not looked back. He is a changed child and so happy again.

 

Whilst the diagnosing process was going on, he was observed for two days and that is when we were told he had Aspergers syndrome. The clinical psychologist has just spent a day at his school as the school were in doubt as to the diagnosis as he is high functioning. I am pleased to say that they have now had a day of questions and answers and now know why my son behaves like he does so hopefully stress levels for me and them will reduce now!

 

Anyway, I digress.

 

The Prozac is given at night and only the very small 25ml spoonful. My son has had no problem taking it and no side effects. He believes it is his happy medicine and one which makes him like his peers. He knows he is "different" and wants to be good but obviously, as you will all know, having Aspergers makes it hard work sometimes to have appropriate behaviour!!

[ZenWolf]

Hi all

 

Just wanted to post a quick note in here in response to the meds issue. I have only recently (last couple of weeks) worked out that I "have" AS. I'm 38, have suffered badly from awful bouts of depression and anxiety at regular points of my life (always when a romantic/family/working relationship went badly "wrong") and was finally diagnosed Borderline Personality Disorder a coupl eof years ago. It is only now that my 5 year-old daughter has been diagnosed with Asperger's that I have looked into at all, and discovered that the symptoms for AS are a much closer match to my own "challenges" than BPD. I have been on pretty much every anti-depressant and anti-anxiety med at some point, but they will all only do so much, as the depression and anxiety are only symptoms of core behavioural differences between those with and without AS. That doesn't mean that treating the symptoms is a bad thing - I am currently responding very well to Mirtazapine (a selective SSRI), which is helping me find the strength to deal with other issues.

 

The key is understanding that Aspie's (a much more positive term that is growing in use as a celebration of the positive side of Asperger's) see the world differently, that they work far better with visual cues to learning than with written words. As an example, I sailed through my O levels with no problem but totally flunked my A's as there was much more written work involved. My Dad reckoned I was just lazy, but I really could not focus on what I was studying. Had we known where the problems lay, we might have sought out some better learning aids that were more visual. I am now studying for a degree with the OU, which is a pretty much perfect option for Aspie's, as there is little social interaction and an awful lot of visual and interactive supporting material.

 

For all of you parents with AS kids in their teens, bear in mind how difficult teenage years are for anyone, and then pretty much triple that for AS kids. They find the social pressures very much harder to deal with, and it creates an enormous strain on them at a time when their education is also immensely hard work. Encouraging them to accept that they are "different" rather than "worse" will help a little - but none of us wants to be "different" at that age either. The worst thing you can do is let them feel any pressure of expectation from you. Learning social skills takes time, and ultimately our hardest lesson is often "ownership" of our issues and responsibility for our actions. Loving and caring for anyone with AS is damn hard work(!), and they often don't seem to respond to it. Believe me, though, deep down the fact that our parents and families love us and celebrate our differences makes everything a lot easier to bear, even if we are pretty rubbish at showing it.

 

Wish I could help more. Willing to help in any way I can.

 

Adam

[barefoot wend]

11

Edited January 15, 2005 by barefoot wend

[bid]

This is a difficult issue.

 

My son was on different meds from the age of 8 until he was 15...essentially I now believe to 'enable' him to muddle through in mainstream.

 

Even with heavy duty meds he finally had a complete breakdown and came out of school. During the 6 months he was at home we made the difficult decision to take him off all medication.

 

He is now at a specialist residential school for AS, achieving and very happy...and still on no meds.

 

It makes me extremely sad, and angry, because I believe my son was given these meds to make him 'cope'. Now that he is in the right environment he doesn't need them.

 

But I am equally angry that we have just been fortunate enough to get this school place. For reasons that I still don't understand our LEA gave him this support while other youngsters in the same LEA in near identical situations have got nothing.

 

It is an absolute lottery, and I feel we are often put in a position where we feel medication is the only option...simply because we can't get the right provision for our children

 

I now wish I had fought harder when he was younger to get the right provision, rather than accepting the advice of the(well-meaning and caring) professionals who saw medication as the only option.

 

Bid

 

I really hope I haven't upset or offended anyone by this post. I am just talking about our situation, not making any judgements about anyone else

Edited January 14, 2005 by bid

[Kathryn]

I agree with Bid, medics are all too quick to provide medication as a substitute for inadequate or non existent services to help children with AS. My daughter has been on medication since June and this has never been properly reviewed. Apart from helping her to sleep, there has been no other obvious benefit. She is on the lowest possible dose, but the junior psychiatrist who knows nothing about AS and has only seen her for an hour wanted to up it without any clear idea of what this would achieve. I tried this for a week but she was so sedated she was staggering aroung the house and going to bed at 5 pm so I refused to continue with the higher dose despite assurances that the sedating effect would wear off in a couple of weeks. The medication is not having any effect on the behaviour and anxiety associated with ASD. It's not a miracle drug which will suddenly turn my daughter into a social animal. I don't think enough research has been done into the effects of these drugs on teenagers, let alone teenagers with ASD.

[Amanda32]

My GP prescribed me with Anti-Depressants called Fluoxetine 20mg today. While searching the net I wanted to know exactly what I was taking and realised it is another name for Prozac....... Really worrying me as heard a few bads things about it. I have had bad effects off other ones so she changed them, see how it goes. I can remember having tablets before to help me sleep as I was having panic attacks in bed and could not breath. They prescribed tablets for that but I felt spaced out and was late picking my son up from school, that was fews yrs ago......never again. I will give it a try and take them properly just hope I am one of these people that are feeling fine with them.

Take care

Amanda

[mossgrove]

Ant-depressants certainly have their uses and can (literally) be a life-saver.

 

Where I have a problem with them is when the presription continues for years without any other plan to deal with the issues, or where anti-pepresants are just a substitute for understanding and dealing with an issue. So if a child needs anti-depressants for years on end to help them cope with school, they are in the wrong placement.

 

It becomes a dilemma when that alternative placement is not available, and there are often no easy answers.

 

Simon

Edited March 11, 2005 by mossgrove

[Flora]

this is an old thread but carrying on the discussion on meds... my son has today been prescribed Cipramil (citalopram) for anxiety and depression. Has anyone had any experience of this??

 

Lauren

[Elanor]

Hi

 

I took this for about 6 months - can't remember the dose, but it wasn't high. everyone has a different experience of medicines, but I found this took about 3 weeks to work (this is common in anti-depressants, Prozac is a new generation drug that acts more quickly). During that 3 weeks I did feel sick quite often - also a common side-effect, that does wear off. I was ok with the medication, and it certainly helped the depression, but it also made me feel a little distant. Still, on balance it did the job, and I had no trouble at all coming off it.

 

 

Elanor