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kerrybobs

EMBARRASING & DIFFICULT SITUATION.

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Hiya,

 

I havent posted for a while so hello to old & new friends.

 

I feel really embarrassed posting this but I cant speak to anyone about this.

 

My daughter Robyn aspergers/dyslexia/adhd is 11 on Monday.

 

My mum pulled me aside for a quiet word, whilst Robyn was in her house with my other daughter aged 2. My mum found Robyn with her finger up her sisters bum. My mum shouted at her and told her this was wrong. Robyn denied everything. She did this to the dog about 4 years ago but it only happened the once as the dog bit her.

 

She has been going through a phase of wiping poo & snot on every wall in the house. Yet denies that too.

 

We had a meeting with camhs today and I told them what had happened. they are very concerned & want to bring social services in, Robyn is also violent towards her baby sister, she constantly winds her up so the baby will push her away then Robyn will hit her. She is also like this with her older sister who is 13. They asked her why it would be wrong to put your finger up someones bum, she kept saying she did'nt then she said 'coz you would get poo on your finger' he then said do you think it would hurt she said she did'nt know.

 

I am worried about this too, yet feel very emotional as I want to protect all my children. I know Robyn is hard work but I know that she feels she has done nothing wrong. They said all that I have written above is not uncommon with children with aspergers.

 

She has also started locking her sister in either the toy house in the garden or the shed. She seems to get a kick out of hearing her sister scream.

 

I was hoping that if anyone else has experienced anything like this that they could advise me with how they dealt with it.

 

Many thanks

 

Kerry

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Hi

 

Sorry, I haven't experienced anything like this with my son (yet!). I think CAMHS are definitely the right people to be involved and by the sounds of it and by your own admission, they really have to get involved. It really sounds like your daughter is doing all of this to get a reaction. By that, I'm not for a minute suggesting that she's looking for attention. That's not it at all. Let me give you an example ... when my son was nearly 2 he went through a phase of deliberately knocking hot cups of tea over me (I would be sitting with tea in my hand). In hindsight, it really struck alarm bells, but I can recall the look on his face - it was completely blank. I know that kids learn from other people, learn how to interact appropriately, learn from experiences, etc. Can't help but wonder if your daughter is fascinated by this (albeit bizarre and worrying to us) and is trying to learn from it in some way or looking for a reaction. That would certainly explain why she locks her sister in the toy shed. Just a thought. I know you must be worried, but I do think telling CAMHS about all aspects of her behaviour will hopefully help and soon. Other thing is that maybe your daughter is going through puberty early.

 

Best of luck with things.

 

Caroline.

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Hi although Matthew hasn't done anything quiet like this he does seem to get a kick out of winding his little brother up (almost 3) he hurts him pushes him to the ground locks him outside, puts his hands around his troat then pushes him over, he seems to think it is great when Nathan starts to scream and cry! these past few days I have had enough! with all the fighting and winging!!

 

I hope it all works out for you! >:D<<'>

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Hi Kerry,

 

Sorry I can't help either. Really feel for you as I can't offer any advice - it's one of those things that like you say it's so difficult to talk about yet obviously causing massive concerns for you all. I think the answer she gave is something similar that my daughter would say in trying to understand what is wrong about it and what you are expecting her to say.

 

The only thing I would say is that since about 11 - my daughter has 'changed' in so many ways - since comprehensive and puberty the goal posts are much further apart on her predictability - her mood swings and hence her aggression and difficulties do have peaks within the month and I think it is her way of coping with the emotional hormone balance thing in her own way.

 

Also, my little one (she's 3) really does get on my eldest daughter's nerves sometimes and she is quite awful to her too, locking her in the bedroom or living room and she seems to have a kind of hmhh that'll teach her kind of sound when she's talking to her through the door - as you say almost enjoying it - like a satisfaction of some sort. I worry that she is going to do something that will hurt her bad - other times mind you she is so good to her and will read a story etc and enjoy being with her but this can change within a blink of an eye - it's almost like my daughter doesn't realise she's only little and expects her to behave like an adult - which obviously she doesn't!!!!

 

I'm sure you'll get some really good advice soon.

Take care and chin up,

Jb

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hi love,

 

i posted a few weeks ago about my son 10yrs smearing poo on the walls.....to be honest i had kept it to myself for a long time....listening to others and doing my own research im now pretty sure its a sensory thing.....

 

i spoke to a aspie adult that still do s this apparently, and putting it together with cons other sensory issues it made sense. its the smell and texture so im told......

 

the other thing you mention is the experimentation with your young one, im no expert on these matters i can only tell you of my own experiences with my son.

 

when he was younger and i was oblivious to his asd s, he fell victim to others touching him in such places, though horrified and confused i tried to dismiss it....we moved house, the awful thing was that it happened again with an older boy.......other children it seems very quickly cotton on to our childrens vunerabilities, this in turn either brings out the protective side of them or the predatory side, hence the innopropriate behaviour.......

 

i know this isnt your scenario exactly but if its shed any light at all for you then all well and good. im pleased that Camhs are being helpful just be careful were ss are concerned, dont get me wrong theres good and bad in any profession , just saying be careful.....

 

hugs,

 

paula >:D<<'>

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It may also be worth checking out if other children have touched her in an inappropriate way.Recently my ASD child told me that another child had asked to pee in his mouth and then he'd be his friend.(This actually happened 3 years ago,so I don't know if Rh let the boy do this to him,or not).

 

It may be worth getting help to create a social story about not touching private areas on others.

 

Also,just a thought but if your 3yo isn't long out of nappies,she might be acting out what she thought happens at nappy changing time.xx

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the finger up the bottom thing may be natural curiousity about bodily functions - most kids explore this at some stage but usually they keep to their own bodies and functions. Our kids often don't develop the same sense of privacy or respect for other people's bodies because they don't relate to the social rules or feelings of others in the same way.

 

just a thought

 

Z

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A few years ago I had real concerns about my own sons after going upstairs and finding them sitting beside each other with their pants down and it was obvious that my elder son had been 'exploring'. It really concerned me but I am convinced now that it was a sensory thing, after all we seem to have the ability to know that sensations feel the same to all of us, but for our kids they don't and I think my son was curious to see if his brothers felt the same as his own, if you know what I mean. It only happened the once, I suppose once his curiosity was satisfied there was no need to do it again, but of course we took steps to make sure that supervision was stepped up, especially as both of them are on the spectrum.

My son has PDA as part of his autism and definitely targets his brother constantly. His brother is also on the spectrum so he doesn't understand to keep away and almost invites the agression. It makes life difficult and managing it is hard. This situation is made easier now by the fact that my son is now housed downstairs which makes upstairs a safe space for his siblings. By adapting the environment around us it has helped us manage the situation better.

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It may also be worth checking out if other children have touched her in an inappropriate way.Recently my ASD child told me that another child had asked to pee in his mouth and then he'd be his friend.(This actually happened 3 years ago,so I don't know if Rh let the boy do this to him,or not).

 

It may be worth getting help to create a social story about not touching private areas on others.

 

Also,just a thought but if your 3yo isn't long out of nappies,she might be acting out what she thought happens at nappy changing time.xx

That crossed my mind too. Could be worth investigating. Ask a few questions like "has anyone touched you like that". Keep it calm and matter of fact, so you don't sound anxious.

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Hiya,

 

Thanks for getting back to me.

 

There are a few things that I had thought about, puberty being one of them. She is starting to develop and her mood swings are quite up and down.

 

She is starting secondary school in September and I was putting the mood swings down to that.

 

As for anyone touching her, I have had a word with her and she said no then walked off. I have tried to have a talk with her but she wont sit still long enough and keeps asking for a drink.

 

We have upped the supervision with her and the baby. only today she locked the baby in the bedroom and was keeping hold of the handle. When I said why do you do that because you would not like it if you where locked in there, she screamed shut up Im only playing.

 

I hope this is just a one off and that she was curious, but as the baby is only 2 and cant tell me then I have to take every precaution. I am worried about social services being involved as you hear so many cases that have been totally wrong about the parents. We have nothing to hide, but I dont want this to be made a big thing of, if it was just a one off.

 

Thank you all for replying, it has made me look at things in a different perspective.

 

Many thanks

 

Kerry

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hey kerrie,

 

let us know how you go love, not everyone knows what its like for our kids..... :blink:

 

hugs,

 

paula

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If he does things which he denies, he could be embarressed about it. This may fall into the catagory of things that are best not making a big deal over because it could be that the harder he tries to avoid doing it, the harder it becomes to avoid doing it. Like Tourette's people: telling them to stop can just make persistent tics more severe because they are constantly thinking about them.

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If he does things which he denies, he could be embarressed about it. This may fall into the catagory of things that are best not making a big deal over because it could be that the harder he tries to avoid doing it, the harder it becomes to avoid doing it. Like Tourette's people: telling them to stop can just make persistent tics more severe because they are constantly thinking about them.

 

 

My son feeds off 'shock/horror' reactions, I've found the best way to deal with things is to appear to ignore it, while trying to find ways to divert. It stopped the poo-smearing on walls, I made him clear it all off himself too. Inappropriate peeing everywhere was also stopped this way. It took a LONG time 'though ! I'm not sure if I attained sainthood, or it was the tablets >:D<<'>

Edited by Melow

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I don't ever like to assume that kids 'feed off' or want to shock people, it doesn't make sense to me at all yet as a child(and still as an adult) I was often accused of it.

 

I do odd things when stressed, so when people are shocked by this and insist on making me more stressed by going over the top about it, it is hugely embarressing and stressing so of course it doesn't in any way encourage me to stop.

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Hi Lucas,

 

What you have said is what I am hoping does not happen, Robyn is exactly the same in the sense that if she does something that is wrong or inappropriate she tends to do it all the more. So often I do tend to ignore her and dont make a big deal about certain things.

 

As with all my children I want to look after and protect them to the best of my ability. As the baby is only 2 and cant tell me I feel that I have to protect her if Robyn has intentions of doing this again. Camhs said that they will start doing one to one work with Robyn about bounderies, this has been done with her before but this was about relationships and friendships.

 

To be honest I do believe that this was a one off. That is why I dont really want a big thing being made out of this, yet another side of me is wanting Robyn to be taught that this is not right what she did and for it not to happen again.

 

I love her so much and I dont want her to be put through something that will be stressful for her. It seems that I only come on this site when things are getting me down, I would like to say that Robyn has lots of good points and often she does make me smile. I just wish this would not have happened as it is a difficult situation to be in for me as a parent and also for her.

 

Kerry

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Although not exactly the same but just wanted to add

 

 

my son is 12 and often appears to us NTs that hes behaveing inapropriatley.Hell come up to me his mum and try to snog me,or touch my bottom,or look up my skirt,he also spies on his sister and says inapropriate things like i can see youre boobies or youve got red knickers on.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

She calls him a pervert and it kicks of.

 

But its only us none autistics that are seing something odd in the behviour something dodgey so to say.Theres nothing actually sexual in what my son is doing in his head.Hes just stateing the facts he can see her boobies and shes got stripey knickers on.Plus hes seen men snogging women on the tv and thinks this is how you kiss a lady even if it is yer mum.I tell him its not right and offer me hand.

 

Also a young 19 year old severaly none verbal autistic lad i escort to day care regulary tries to remove my clotheing especially my top.To an outside observer he could be seen as a "sex pest" after a quick flash but i know hes only searching for my tatoos.Once i show him these the clothes removeing stops.

 

 

 

What we initially see and what is actually happening are i think different things.

 

I bet you anthing its to do with poo and bodily functions and nothing untoward although on the surface it appears worrying and needs to be stopped just incase they do it to someone who doesnt understand.

Edited by Paula

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I don't ever like to assume that kids 'feed off' or want to shock people, it doesn't make sense to me at all yet as a child(and still as an adult) I was often accused of it.

 

I do odd things when stressed, so when people are shocked by this and insist on making me more stressed by going over the top about it, it is hugely embarressing and stressing so of course it doesn't in any way encourage me to stop.

 

I wasn't generalising obviously, but the fact his actions appeared to upset or shock people, definitiley triggers more of it as he gets older. It may well be he is reacting to an emotion without knowing if that emotion is positive or negative. I don't think it is attention-seeking. Perhaps this is only the way he expresses HIS emotions, he is approaching puberty so perhaps hormones are kicking in ? unfortunately parents are often pressured by outside viewpoints and comments, that obviously are meaningless to an autistic, but have to be 'addressed' by us. We ARE on your side Luke, and on our child's obviously.

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I can see that you are very worried about this, and concerned about the involvement of SS and CAMHs but I think this is absolutely the right thing to happen. Whilst there may well be reasons why your ASD child has done this, and you do need to find these out and try to help her to learn that she can't continue to act in this way, the fact remains that your younger NT child is only 2, and she has been sexually abused by her sibling. You need to be looking after the interests of both of your children in this situation, and finding ways of protecting the little one too. With the best will in the world you cannot prevent your older one ever being alone with the younger so the sooner you can sort out this problem the better. You do need appropriate professional help to solve this problem.

 

I am sorry to be so blunt about this but it seemed from reading your post and some of the replies that this perspective had got lost a bit, and having worked with adults, who have issues as a result of sexual abuse in their childhoods, I felt that the needs of the younger child should not be overlooked in all of this. Both of your children have needs to be met in this situation.

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Hi Emum,

 

If you read my posts I have tried to get across that I have to protect all of my children. I am also trying to look at Robyns behaviour from her point of view. Of course I am extremely worried regarding my 2 year old especially as she cant speak up for herself as to whether is Robyn has been touching her and that her welfare is paramount.

 

As my title says it is an embarrasing & difficult situation. If this was to happen with anyone else there would be uproar but because it is within the family unit, it feels different somehow. I am desperately hoping that it was just a curious incident on Robyns behalf and that it was a one off.

 

The one thing I would hate myself for is if I did'nt seek help for all of us and the situation got worse. The situation is not black & white. Obviously since the diagnosis my fight has been for Robyn to make sure she is understood and to get the many things that she is entitled to. This also applies to my other children.

 

The word Social Services is a stigma and I do worry that they will make more of it than what it is. I dont want this to be made a big thing of that makes Robyn worse. But I also dont want this to happen again. So I think maybe the one to one about bounderies should help.

 

I hope that it is not perceived that I am taking this lightly and of course my motherly instinct and human instinct is to protect all of my children no matter how difficult the situation maybe.

 

 

Kind Regards

 

Kerry

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Kerry >:D<<'> I so hope you are right and this is a one off. With your youngest being 2 it will be tricky for you to discover the full extent of what has happened. I know if I were in your shoes I'd be wondering if this was the first time it had happened and if any other areas of the body had been explored. I would assume that had your mum not walked in on your daughters you would of been none the wiser. Feel for your youngest, as it must of been painful for her. Have you considered having her medically examined? I'm unsure if this could cause damage, if one child is doing it to another, as it may not of been done gently. I really hope you are given support and advice to help you deal with this appropriately and stop it happening again. Take care >:D<<'>

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Hi Kerry,

 

This is a tough and tricky situation, and it can't be easy to stay calm and rational in the midst of it all. But it seems to me you're dealing with it in the best way possible.

 

Stay strong >:D<<'>

 

K x

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H i Kerry

 

I'm sorry I really didn't mean to upset you by my post, but it just seemed to me when I read your post and a lot of the responses, that everyone was approaching this from the POV of the autistic child, and I just wanted to make sure that the enormity of what had happened to the 2 year old did not get lost. I did think long and hard before I posted last night because I was aware that what I was saying was out of kilter with the prevailing view of the other posters, but because I felt that the needs of the 2 year old were so important, I felt I had to post.

 

I know SS do get a bad name, but they are the people best trained to deal with this kind of issue. My sister is a SW, and she has dealt with so many cases of a sibling abusing a younger sibling that she couldn't count them. Very rarely does it end up with a child being removed from the home, although that is always the parents fear. Obviously there are good and bad SW but I will keep everything crossed that you get a good one who will deal with this sensitively.

 

In my professional life I came across a number of adults who had been abused as children (some of them at a very young age) and who suffered a great deal as adults as a result. For this reason, whether or not the abuse has been perpetrated by a family member, and whether or not the family member has autism or any other difficulties, I feel very strongly that the future safety and mental health of the abused child must be looked after, and should be your paramount concern.

 

I can see from your posts that you are a responsible and loving parent,and I apologise again for upsetting you.

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Hi Emum,

 

Im sorry if I made you feel you had upset me. I could not agree more with what you have said and my main concern is for Rhianna. But I find it difficult to comprehend that Robyn could have done this to her baby sister and in a way wondering if it is down to her not being able to understand that there are boundaries that she should not cross.

 

I really hope that the one to one starts soon and she learns from it and us as a family. That way we can move forward and put this behind us.

 

I would like to thank everyone for their kind words of support and also sharing your own personal experiences, as I know it is difficult to talk about.

 

I will keep you all posted especially with her progress (hopefully).

 

Once again thank you very much your advice is very much appreciated.

 

Kind Regards

 

Kerry

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