Kid gloves vs old fashioned discipline

[Gardenia]

Hi all,

 

We've been to dh parents for Sunday tea and I've had to bite my tongue to keep the peace in the Gardenia household.

Ds had a bit of a wobble and I chose to ignore it, for my mother-in-law to tell me that he should be punished for his behaviour and that if he's not reprimanded he will never improve, and in her day children didn't need a label and knew exactly what was expected of them. I'm more than annoyed with myself for just standing there taking all this spiel but to tell the truth I didn't trust myself to speak or I would have just . What made things worse was for dh to agree and say he's always said I've treated ds2 with Kid gloves once he got his dx and that ds2 was a much better behaved child when he was reprimanded for his behaviour before he got his label as I now blame his ASD for some behaviour that he could control blah blah blah.

 

On reflection I wonder if ds2 can manipulate me and do I handle him with Kid gloves. Is my mother in law right to say there was none of this ASD ADHD in her day and people just got on with things and people are too namby pamby.

 

If I was a stronger person I would have loved to say ---------- suggestions please.

Or does anyone agree with MIL

 

Gardenia

[Bullet]

I let a lot of things go but I do have some basic rules for Tom that I'm strict with. He is not allowed to do anything that might hurt himself. He is not allowed to hurt anybody else, either physically or emotionally, basically I want him to treat others as he would want to be treated. He is not allowed to do anything that might damage property. In these areas I do tell him "no" if he transgresses them.

Edited to say ASDs certainly did exist in her day, people just didn't know what to call them. My parents knew I was different, teachers knew I was different, paediatricians knew I was different, but a good academic ability and my withdrawn nature meant it was felt I was coping.

Edited August 13, 2006 by Bullet

[oracle]

<'> <'> <'> take some of theses <'> <'> <'>

 

I am very strict with my two in certain areas but I am constantly making adjustments and allowances depending on where they are and what is going on around them. Because they are autistic and you just can't shelve that when you or other people want you to.

 

For example - I have just had my Sunday Tea with 6 males. Three of em belong to me and three of them are friends of the eldest two, one of whom has AS. We have all sat crowded round the table as we often do on a Sunday and Matthew has been totally OTT. Had this been an ordinary Tea time I would have stopped him in his tracks. But as part of his condition is to be inappropriate and he is always more so when his senses are being over loaded or he is in an environment which is alien to him or he finds uncomfortable. So I bit my lip and let it go - was that my being too soft? I don't think so. I try hard not to over react to Matthew in other peoples homes and this includes my in-laws. I try not to go any more to be honest with you Although my MIL is in her 80's and so I do forgive her mostly when she asks what Matt is doing and why.

 

I hate it when I get the 'a good hard slap it what they need' routine because 'we' all know that this is just what they do not need. I also think that this routine is often delivered to make us feel like bad parents and that really makes my blood boil But then that's me.

 

I tell everyone that for my sons English is a foreign language and the fact that can talk and respond at all is brilliant. It's often other peoples unrealistic expectations that are hardest for our kids to handle and family are often the worst offenders but it's true

 

Oracle

[hev]

i def give steve too much leeway,half the time i dont know what is asd or what is bad behaiour,im still waiting to get the hang of all this parenting lark

i do think though that comments like that from your MIL are not very helpful,i find if someone says something like that to me i think about it for ages,i am doubtful enough as it is of my abilities with coping with steven,i do not mind advice,i like advice but its the know it all way that people say things which get to me,my x MIL was like that and that was before steve had any difficulties,so glad shes out of my life now,i think we would come to blows if she saw what goes on in my house now

[darky]

i do give my kids leway and understanding, but at the same time i am strict and consistant. i do believe in letting them have their meltdowns. most of the time, i ignore or put them somewhere safe to calm down. my sister is a prime example of what happens when a child suffers internaly with a problem that has been ignored, over parented and the attitude of "you WILL behave" she is bulimic, self harming, alchoholic and severly depressed. she is 29 yrs old.

 

i know lots of people will say "it wasnt around years ago" yes it was, it wasnt recognised. like anything else, being gay for example, are there more gays now or is it just more acceptable than it was 20 yrs ago? things change, parenting has changed thank god! i cannot imagine giving my kids the belt or a smack round the head or booting them outside from dawn til dusk! so no i do not agree with your MIL, sorry, there is a nice poem type thing on here i read today, cant rememeber where, but it speaks volumes, read it, that will make you feel better.

 

that example was not in anyway a slur against gay people!

[baddad]

No doubt about it, allowances do have to be made for our kids, but what those allowances are and how/when they apply is so individual and situational that there can't be any hard/fast rules...

I think all you can do is have expectations of behaviour and keep working toward them, basing sanctions, disciplines, rewards and 'allowances' on where you child is at any given point in their development and on the degree of social understanding they can generally (let's face it - there's no hard and fasts with our kids!) demonstrate.

No matter where your kid is on the spectrum certain behaviours are going to have a profound effect on thier social opportunities - no matter how accepting or accommodating the 'local' social networks surrounding them. Ignoring violent or aggressive behaviours does nobody any favours, but trying to resolve them without understanding them isn't going to help either...

 

sorry - tired and waffling. Not sure if there's any sense in the above, but I'll leave it there anyway!

 

L&P

 

BD

[LizK]

<'> <'> <'>

 

I think neither are appropriate. Our kids need consistency, boundaries and structure and need to be learn right and wrong or the consequences of actions. However I think it is always important to look for the reasons behind their behaviour which may be different to an NT child and the ways we deal with poor behaviour may also be different to that of an NT child. The last thing is what I struggle with. I do tell him off but sometimes think that perceived bad behaviour isn't really and either his autism or because he doesn't understand. I ignore some poor behaviour too when I think it is attention seeking but worry then that he might think I'm condoning it.

 

A few weeks ago my four year old pulled his cousin's hair so hard he pulled a strand out. The reason he did it was because she pushed in front of him on the slide. He hasn't really got the language skills to verbally protest or come and tell me like she would do in the reverse situation so lashed out instead. He doesn't really understand the implications of emotions so didn't think to let go when she started crying and jsut clung onto her hair. I can sort of understand why he behaved as he did but on the other hand was mortified he'd hurt his cousin so. Did I try to explain to him that next time this happens he comes to tell me or yell at him for being aggressive? I ended up putting him in the pushchair facing the wall for time out and to let him (and me!) cool down instead. Not sure if that was the right thing to do or not? Incidentally school have dealt with some behaviour (throwing objects, pulling hair) by ignoring and redirecting or low key discipline (showing cards of sad faces when he hurts someone) rather than going in guns blazing which has been quite effective.

 

Your MIL is completely wrong about no ADHD/ASD in her day I'm sure of lot of those poor souls were undiagnosed, forced to live and conform in a NT world and disciplined as per your MIL and are now misdiagnosed as having chronic depression or personality disorders

 

Lx

[curra]

This is a tricky question. My DS has been very "difficult" for quite some time and being strict seemed to make things worse. Lately his behaviour has improved a lot with medication and not making too many demands on him. H's been relaxed and therefore well behaved. But I am also very consistent and there are clear limits to what is allowed. He still can manipulate me a lot, or it looks that way. In fact I notice very well when he is manipulative and I decide whether to give in depending on the situation. My relatives also think that there's nothing wrong with my son apart from being spoiled, but I stopped listening to them. They are obvioulsy not the ones who are educating my son

<'> <'>

Curra

[smiley]

I can only go by my experiences - each child is different.....etc....

 

M needs boundaries - very much so. Of course, i take into account the particular situation, and make allowances for him if they are needed.........

 

As an example - the first half of his school year, M was free to do as he wished. If he wanted to run about in the playground all day, he was allowed to. The school was frightened to reprimand him - as they didn't have a good understanding of M, and no experience of a child with AS, SID. After much ear-bashing from me - they began to set strict boundaries and began (very gradually) to reprimand M - all at a level which he can understand. Within a term, his anxieties had been greatly reduced - he was much happier/calmer having the boundaries set IYSWIM... <'>

[jlp]

I'm so glad it's not just me who feels like this - I've been told I'm too soft by many but I have real difficulty between distinguishing between 'asd' and general 'bad' behaviour.

 

I try to understand and explain but in the back of my mind is the fact that all children need some discipline and G needs this to be able to fit into the 'real world' at some point.

 

At the minute I concentrate on rudeness (calling me stupid etc) and violence but am making very little progress!

[Bagpuss]

Gardenia <'> That must of been tough for you I TRY to set boundaries for our's, which work well on our eldest two but with the youngest its a continual challenge. Some tactics I usually use (visual charts, sticking to routines, explaining changes well in advance, rewards, positive praise, reduced language etc) have been ineffective since the school hols started, and she has been very difficult to cope with at times. I've not had to face a relative making a comment like that, and to have your DH agree must of been very hard Do I make allowances for our youngest dd having ASD? Yup, I do, and probably if I'm honest too many.....find it so hard to distinguish sometimes between ASD related behaviour and her just being a stubborn little b****r or plain simple naughtiness. I do know that I tolerate far more from her and our eldest dd who has AS than I ever did from my NT son. Take care <'>

[Lucas]

I never wanted any allowences made for myself that did not exist for Neurotypical children. I wasn't given many but it was coming from viewpoints of utter ignorance.

 

I could not and still can not take my cloths off in front of other people to get changed for something like PE. I'm not being naughty, I simply can't damn well do it. It was assumed that my refusal to remove clothing was the same as Neurotypical children who refused to change clothing. I could have put on my PE gear underneath my uniform and simply taken the uniform off, but this was never a considered solution. The only considered solution was ridicule and exclusion from taking part in anything.

[Guest hallyscomet]

Hi all,

 

We've been to dh parents for Sunday tea and I've had to bite my tongue to keep the peace in the Gardenia household.

Ds had a bit of a wobble and I chose to ignore it, for my mother-in-law to tell me that he should be punished for his behaviour and that if he's not reprimanded he will never improve, and in her day children didn't need a label and knew exactly what was expected of them. I'm more than annoyed with myself for just standing there taking all this spiel but to tell the truth I didn't trust myself to speak or I would have just . What made things worse was for dh to agree and say he's always said I've treated ds2 with Kid gloves once he got his dx and that ds2 was a much better behaved child when he was reprimanded for his behaviour before he got his label as I now blame his ASD for some behaviour that he could control blah blah blah.

 

On reflection I wonder if ds2 can manipulate me and do I handle him with Kid gloves. Is my mother in law right to say there was none of this ASD ADHD in her day and people just got on with things and people are too namby pamby.

 

If I was a stronger person I would have loved to say ---------- suggestions please.

Or does anyone agree with MIL

 

Gardenia

 

Hi Gardenia,

 

Sending you lots of these <'> <'>

 

Reading the posts above, you can see you are not alone. I sense something here that each of us have felt. We will protect our ASD child at whatever costs, and it really hurts when we feel they have been singled out for their behaviour.

 

A day in the life of an ASD parent. We are all amazing people doing a job that is constantly misunderstood and a challenge.

 

Take care

 

<'>

Edited August 24, 2006 by Frangipani

[UltraMum]

We have sort of come face to face with this when my son said suddenly that he liked going to 'Nana and Grandpa's' but not to 'Nana and Grandad's' (Yes - they both wanted to be Nana just to confuse the issue ... )

 

He said Mummy and Daddy were always higher up the crossness scale at the latter house (both sets being long distance we have to go for a whole weekend!)

 

We realised that the different tolerances of the two sets of grandparents for J's behaviour were actually interfering with our setting of consistency in behaviour and discipline ... we were always much stricter with J at my parents than at D's parents.

 

In hindsight I would go for consistency for J and muttering/moaning from the grandparents everytime - he's the one that needs it and if they want to mutter then do so ... probably do behind my back anyway

 

BTW - I gave my parents a copy of http://www.udel.edu/bkirby/asperger/grandparents.html and they seem a little more understanding

[TheNeil]

Can't offer any advice on the discipline front but, rest assured, your MIL (if she's anything like mine) will probably have taken great pleasure from giving you a 'dressing down'

 

As per usual though I think conflict like this (not just MILs but whenever this type of 'you should be doing X, Y or Z') generally stems from lack of understanding and ignorance rather than genuine malice. The worst thing you can do is react or get all bolshie. You'll know it better than I do, but a quiet word can often work wonders

[Bullet]

I can't take my clothes off in front of others either (ok, well, with the exception of DH ). If I go swimming I put on my costume under my clothes in case there's no cubicles.

[Lucas]

I don't go swimming at all anymore because of the trouble I have.

[Melow]

I make allowances when I feel he cannot help what he does, trouble is, others don't ! and want a zero tolerance system used. Whilst my son will spit and swear at people, there is no malice whatever in it, he seems to just like doing it, how do you convince others of this ? Obviously we don't condone any of it, and make supreme effort to prevent it happening. All I do, is end up rowing with people in the street or neighbours who assume I am a bad parent who lets him get away with everything, far from it ! the fact it is a little easier to lay down the rules at home than outside it where he delights in lighting the blue touch paper then watching the fireworks ! I love my lad to bits, I would like just once to go out of the house with him, without people staring at him all the time, I'm sure he reacts to that, a ready-made audience ..... At times we just cannot prevent what he does at all, the only logical answer would be to not take him anywhere.. Thing was he STOPPED this a while ago, I just don't know why he has suddenly returned to it again, and is now 10 times worse.

[Stephanie]

We try not to make allowances for the fact my son has HFA and understand the times when his behaviour is due to his condition but there are a lot of times when his behaviour is more down to the fact he is 5 years old. Like all children, he likes to push the boundaries, see what he can get away with etc. that is all part of growing up.

 

I stick to strict discipline when he endangers himself or gets too rough with his brother (just general kids stuff, nothing heavy) or purposely misbehaves (like belching loudly in public places, takes something when I have said he can't have it, squirts toothpaste on the floor and doesn't clean it up ... stuff like that).

 

I do however make allowances for his clumsiness, he will often bump into people or tread on things.

 

In general he is well behaved anyway and always says sorry. I think because he knows what has been expected from him since an early age.

 

I think as parents with ASD kids, we have got to the know the ways in which they work, and will always try to be one step ahead of them to avoid any disruptions, potential hazards or impending meltdowns.

 

As for discipline in general .... taking from an example of a child who recently upset me greatly in Waitrose and I accidentally upset his mother as a result ... I think some parents lack consistency with themselves and with their partners. You have to stick together on your decisions.

 

Too many false threats ... "no swimming if you do that again" ... they do it again ... half an hour later you are taking them swimming!!! They soon learn that you do not mean what you say and your discipline isn't validated.

 

Consistency is the key I think, remain consistent (and be consistent as parents not just individuals).

 

Now where did I put my Von Trapp whistle ... ha ha!

[cmuir]

Hi

 

I think in the case with my 4.5 year old son and I, that are occasions when I do treat him with kid gloves. However, I am strict when needed to be. I am also well aware that there are occasions when I make a decision, rightly or wrongly, to ignore because I don't want WWIII breaking out. In other words, I pick and choose my battles carefully (consistency is needed though) ? if it doesn't matter, I ignore it, if it does, I deal with it. I am of the opinion, that kids with ASD do need to be disciplined, but that can't always be done in the same way as a child without an ASD. I know that I'm always having to think on my feet to distract, in order to avoid meltdowns. I agree with Bagpuss in that it isn't always easy to tell whether Robert's being plain naughty or there's more to it.

 

Best of luck

 

Caroline

[stressedmumto2]

Ah, this is a tricky one.

 

My son will go into violent rages when not able to have his own way and alot of it is reaction and for me to give in. The thing is alot of the time with him it's happening because something isn't fair in his eyes or the rules of play isn't right.

 

2 examples. Last week at sports club because they were playing basketball, he tackled like you do trying to get the ball out of the other persons hand using his hand (watched it on telly) got told of for doing it so he went into one. His version of it well it's not right you are allowed to do it that way. I had to explain to him that well it's differentat a club because they don't want people getting hurt etc.

 

Then at the circus the other night, because I got his sister chips and popcorn at the time he seemed fine about just getting poopcorn but later started going into one because he too wanted chips. I wouldn't give in because it had all been explained before hand just what they ould both be getting, he had 2 drinks to her 1.

His argument was it's not fair my argument was you knew what you were getting you agreed etc. As aresult he goes into rage, swearing, shouting at me in cramped circus and I left with him.

 

I know I should have probably gave in and got him the chips but I just feel like he pushes for even more if I give in. What should I have done?

 

I was sticking to my guns like I believe you should but it made the situation worse. My boyfriend said he could hear him saying throughout it "stop clapping please it's too loud". So maybe I should have got him them at least to take his mind of the noise.

[Flora]

I don't think recognising, understanding, and dealing appropriately with problems and behaviours related to ASD is 'treating your child with kid gloves'.

 

I think it's important to set boundaries, but equally important to learn to understand the cause before deciding how problems should be dealt with.

 

My mum used to say about Bill 'he's got your wrapped around his little finger'. After alot of rows, falling out, patience, discussion and a couple of years she is now one of his best advocates. She does at times get it wrong still but on the whole she's grasped the difficulties which cause him to behave negatively at times; but more importantly she's grown to appreciate and love all the positives that make up the greater part of his personality.

 

Don't give up trying but never ever give in to such nonsense, so if you feel like you're wasting your breath then don't waste it and make yourself a buffer between your child and your MIL.

 

Flora <'>

[elaine1]

Of course there were these things in her day - ppl just got locked in sanitoriums so you never saw it. silly woman. Mind you i dont believe in kid glove treatment if Toms done something he knows is wrong he gets punished for it. I dont let him get away with bad behavious just because he has AS. he knows right from wrong.

 

that doesnt stop him trying to blame his AS though lol

[Paula]

Ive been too soft on my son.

 

 

Mainly because he was so so ill when younger with the bilateral choanal atresia and i fealt guilty like all mums i blamed myself for his condition.

 

Then i became over protective scared hed hurt himself ect....................

 

Now i pay the price ive a great big strapping 12 year old lad on my hands who basically if it kicks of i cant controll.I realise i need to alter my behaviour towards him and start treating him in many ways like i would a NT teenager but im so used to letting things drop and not rocking the boat i cant.I look upon him as a baby at times and treat him totally inapropriatly i know this.

 

It hit home when hed spent a day with his grandma and she reported back that hed said "mum never lets me do anything she fusses too much"

 

I have to take that on board im doing him no long term favoures.Ive told him in future when i rush in to help outta habit he must say "mum i can do it stop fussing" that way itll remind me to stop and let him do what he can.

[Gardenia]

Many thanks to all who replied I think I'll rise above the MIL next time.

 

Gardenia

[niki]

hiya sorry im late to join this topic but i felt compelled to.

My brother (asd + adhd) was brought up "the old fashioned way" and was beaten to submission. he still at 28 will not express his own feeelings or emotions, he simply shuts down.

I think it is hard enough for our children to sustain any healthy relationship, but for my bro it is impossible.

I hope that it wont come to that with my son i am strict with basic values but i do give lee-way when i know it is because his is overstimulated. i believe in finding a good balance, but not punishing your child for something that fundamentally isnt his/her fault, discovering what is however is where the heartache begins...