When they Hurt you?

[JsMum]

What do you do when your children lash out with frustration and have hurt you?

 

How do you help them understand that they have really hurt you?

 

Early evening J had a outburst that was different, he went all tence and then went red in the face, clenched his fists and gritted his teeth then he plunged his fingernails deep into my ankles and nipped me.

 

I have four bruises on each leg and nail holes, it really hurt.

 

I had to physically carry him into the garden and then he calmed down.

 

There was no more incedents and all in all a good night, and ok morning.

 

Teacher said it maybe due to change in routine and because he struggles throw the day at school?

 

How do you cope with aggression to this extreame and what positive sanctions could I use.

 

 

JsMum

[mum22boys]

Hi Jsmum,

 

I believe with my son (who is 6) when he crosses a certain line (in his head) there is no going back on the agression. I believe I have to let him get through it without hurting others and unfortunately if that means me getting hurt instead then so be it. That doesn't mean I agree with his outbursts or violence but i know with M he even has a different look about him when he goes into meltdown. i also find when the meltdowns are severe that M has no recollection of what he has done to me. He is genuinely shocked at the bite marks on my arms.

 

I have introduced him to a stress ball which on the odd occasion he has used, although you have to catch him early enough. I too would love to know the answer to this and it is definately stress related with M. We just need to keep his stress levels down. Not easy though is it when the smallest change of routine gets them very stressed.

 

Hope someone gives you more answers.

 

mum22boys

[JsMum]

Hi Jsmum,

 

I believe with my son (who is 6) when he crosses a certain line (in his head) there is no going back on the agression. I believe I have to let him get through it without hurting others and unfortunately if that means me getting hurt instead then so be it. That doesn't mean I agree with his outbursts or violence but i know with M he even has a different look about him when he goes into meltdown. i also find when the meltdowns are severe that M has no recollection of what he has done to me. He is genuinely shocked at the bite marks on my arms.

 

I have introduced him to a stress ball which on the odd occasion he has used, although you have to catch him early enough. I too would love to know the answer to this and it is definately stress related with M. We just need to keep his stress levels down. Not easy though is it when the smallest change of routine gets them very stressed.

 

Hope someone gives you more answers.

 

mum22boys

 

 

Hi thankyou for your reply, when he has had a severe meltdown and has no recalection do you punish him, and if you did would he remember why he has been punished.

 

 

When I say punish I dont mean physical punishment, but sanctions, told off ect...

 

JsMum

[cmuir]

Hi

 

I read a book written by a teenager who has AS. He described some incidents with his father whereby he completely lost control and next thing he remembers was sitting on the floor and seeing his dad with a ripped shirt and a cut on his face. I too genuinelty believe that my son has no recollection of his meltdowns, I also agree completely what what was said about him crossing a point of no return where he loses control completely. It's really tricky knowing how to deal with and I think it depends upon where you are at the time because there are other people to consider (in terms of them being hurt).

 

Caroline.

[jb1964]

Hi Jsmum,

 

I believe with my son (who is 6) when he crosses a certain line (in his head) there is no going back on the agression. i also find when the meltdowns are severe that M has no recollection of what he has done to me. He is genuinely shocked at the bite marks on my arms.

mum22boys

 

J'smum,

 

I agree totally with what mum22boys says. There is a line which when crossed my daughter is totally out of control - you can see by her eyes the fear as she cannot stop the thoughts that are going in her head and her actions. There are times during these rages when she just screams and screams and self harms - i.e. head butts the wall, scrams her face or pulls her hair out - other times she will attack me instead (kicks/punches/slaps/bites or digs her nails in my arms) - I have not found a solution for this. It was easier to restrain her when she was younger - I was told at one meeting to sit on the floor with her back into my front - and wrap my arms around her arms firmly - and hold her feet down with mine - and rock her - this did help up until about the age of 7.

 

- but now she's 13 - it frightens me that I have little control over it - but don't know what to do.

 

Afterwards it is very difficult to talk to her - she has little recollection after a certain point and then gets upset at that fact.

 

I hope something works for you.

Take care,

Jb

[mum22boys]

No, I don't punish him. As cmuir said you can't punish a child that has no recollection of what they did. I find that all I can do afterwards is show him what he has done and explain he shouldn't hit/bite etc. I then spend anything up to an hour sometimes trying to find out the cause. I ask him if anything has happened to make him angry. A good way of finding out what has upset him at school was to ask ' Was Miss ***** a good teacher today'. This was a way of finding out what had upset him at school. It is very hard when you have a child that finds it difficult to communicate.

 

Hope that makes some sense.

 

mum22boys

[Suze]

It,s like a sneeze you can feel it happening but you just can,t stop it.My son boils then BANG explodes...........when he was younger he would kick, lash out and throw things , now he has become more insular and this aggression has turned to anxiety.Although he has blown a number of times recently, trying to strangle his sister this week, he left red marks on her throat.He was physically trying to remove her from his room at the time.

[baileyj]

Max (5) tends to react to things not working properly, and the speed and severity of the reactions depends on how he is feeling generally, if he's playing with a car and the door doesn't shut properly he will just scream and hurl it across the room (last week hit me in the spine and made me burst into tears).

 

If you try and calm him or ask him whats wrong at the point of meltdown he will growl and lash out, and punches you. If you tell him off, as hubbie did last week when he hurt me, he bursts into tears and is devasted then shuts down.

 

So... no answers at all, he tends to retreat to his bed after an outburst, and we wait till he's calmer, then I cuddle him, saying shhhhh, and later when all calm, try and use simple words to say "throwing is bad, it made Mommy sad", any more language he wouldn't understand.

 

Dread to think how it will be when he is bigger, at 5 its shocking, and getting more aggressive.

 

Like one of the other posts, also i prefer he hurts me than his sister or another child, so I tend to get in the way of others to protect them.

 

Jo

[badonkadonk]

I also have problems with outbursts triggered by my AS.

 

The problem used to be lots of little things, generally speaking, that would contribute to the outburst. For example... An advert will come on the television that I don't like, then my mom will ask me a question when I'm trying to listen to the television (I can't seperate the two noises in my ears, they blend into one and I get confused), then I might have an itch on my skin and I can hear the kid outside bouncing the football off the tarmac over and over again and there's heat and different smells coming from the kitchen and the extractor fan is noisy and so on and so on and then I lose it and shout at my mom.

 

Or that's what used to happen until I found out I had AS. Once I started looking into what AS was and how it affected me I began to be able to identify with the fact that these little things annoyed me. Whereas before I got frustrated because more often than not I would get upset at the fact that I seemed to be getting upset over nothing, I wouldn't know why I was feeling like I was about to explode. Now I can sit there and think, wait I'm getting stressed, what is making me feel like this. Most of the times I still shout...."Mom, for gods sake, don't shout a question at me from the kitchen, I can't understand what you're saying." Or "oh my god, this advert again!!!!". But I no longer have rages or throw things. When I had my rages before I also used to not be able to express why I felt like that, mostly because I was embarrassed at having to say, oh this little thing or that. I think this is the biggest stumbling block with ASD kids and their parents, to the parents these things seem insignificant things, if perchance I would ever express how I was feeling it was often met with a "don't be so stupid" or "for gods sake grow up". But these things are not insignificant to me, you have to multiply everything by 1000 to get how we're feeling.

 

I don't know if any of the following will work, but I've had a think and here are a few ideas. The biggest challenge as your child gets older is going to be getting them to identify and explain when they begin to feel angst. The quicker they identify the problem, the easier it is to solve, but like I said more often than not I didn't know what was making me upset. One idea is to show them stories on the internet where people with ASDs explain how little things all contribute to a big outburst. For older kids, show them this post, it might make them recognise something in themselves. For little children, make up a story about a child with an ASD who gets bothered when he goes to a supermarket (hell on earth!!), how all the different sights, smells, sounds etc affect him and how he goes into a rage and attacks him mom. But how he then sits down with his mom, explains how he was feeling and somehow agree that next time he just tells his mom how he's feeling, regardless of how insignificant. (Sunglasses and headphones are another of my tips for places like a supermarket).

 

Another idea is to buy a punchbag, seriously, and keep the gloves close by so that if your child begins to feel angry or if they start to show signs that they are about to "explode" then you can take them out to the punch bag and say "let loose!!". You could hang the bag in the garage or their bedroom or even keep it outside. I don't have a punch bag (yet! lol) but I do sometimes have to stand still and scream or else I will have a go at someone or throw something.

 

I know it sucks that your kids are violent towards you and everything, but I do think understanding is key, and perhaps one way to do it is for you to understand how they are feeling so that you can help them understand themselves. You could work with your partners and, if you have any, your other children involved who don't have an ASD or close family members such as grandparents, people who need to understand what it's like. This will take a bit of planning, but you could get together and make sure your ASD children aren't around, that they are distracted for sometime, and set up an experiment to do to each other so you can feel what it's like to have an ASD. I would suggest that you sit one person down on a chair and then inflict the following upon them for five or ten minutes. A flashlight to simulate neon lighting, as well as normal lighting. Lots of different noises e.g. have music playing and one person bouncing a ball off the floor and people having different conversations (make sure this is loudly though because our ears are more sensitive to yours). Have lots of movement in the room, people walking about while having the conversation, the television on as well. Lastly make sure there are strong smells in the room, perfume, air freshner, fresh fish...make sure there is at least one smell you don't like. Then, if there are enough people, try and have one person try to have a conversation with the person playing the part of the child with an ASD. I know it would take a bit of planning and preperation, but it could just be one sunday afternoon of your life and you could come out of it with a better understanding of the things that make us explode into rages. I know other things contribute such as stress and things that have happened, so whilst sitting in the chair try and think things like "I wonder what lunch will be at school tomorrow?", "Have I answered question 9 correctly in Maths today?", "Why did that kid shove me in the playground?", "Am I a bad person?", "What will happen in the future?". This might help also. (As might encouraging your child to keep a diary)

 

Hope this helps a little,

 

Badonkadonk

xxx

[jb1964]

I know J'smum started this thread - but I just wanted to thank badonkadonk for the post she's just submitted - I have printed this off and taking it home for my daughter to read - I think it may help our situation if she can see how someone else has coped with it.

 

Thanks again,

Jb

[baileyj]

Ive printed it too, it really helps me understand how Max must find all these things. I tend to forget, this is a good reminder for me. Also going to take it home to show my husband and family.

 

Thanks so much.

 

Jo

[Suze]

Badonabonk, thankyou so much for your post, ............strangely I can relate to all of that sensory stuff myself hhhhmm, got me thinking .I have read and really enjoyed ??..........appreciated your insights into ASD thankyou so much, suzex.

[Kazzen161]

It is difficult to tell a child off when they did not intend to hurt you. It is always good to remind him that hitting is not good, and that he should punch a pillow, or whatever instead. But it is also important for you and him to learn to recognise the warning signs that he is getting stressed, and for you to teach him ways to calm himself down when he realises he is feeling stressed (listening to music, etc) , so avoiding the meltdowns.

 

The book "Aspergers Syndrome and Difficult Moments: practical solutions for tantrums,rage and meltdown" by B Smith Myles and J Southwick is very good at explaining this.

 

Karen

[smiley]

Badonkadonk <'> Thank you for your post.

 

I read it to my son and he was crying by the end (with relief). He kept saying, 'that's like M mummy'.

 

Thank you <'>

[jen]

I actually recorded my son having a meltdown. Then when he was relaxed I explained to him what normally happens. We than sat and watched it on the video. It had a drastic effect on him and now after each meltdown he always asks if he hurt anyone.

 

Jen

[Mother in Need]

The violence accompanying meltdowns is a great worry for me as well. In the past, when he was small, these were controlable by picking him up, physically removing him from the problem or situation, etc, so they were not so bad. But now that he has reched the age of 13, weighs 55 kg, and is as strong as an ox, I have a big problem on my hands. I CAN NO LONGER CONTROL HIM THIS WAY, AND HE KNOWS IT. As he has ODD as well, we get into some very difficult situations. And I can no longer restrain him, not only because he is simply way too strong but also because of his violence I HAVE NOW LOST PARTIAL USE OF MY LEFT ARM (and I am left handed).

I have no idea how to deal with him anymore, as a single parent with no family nor any outsiders back-up, there are times I seriously fear for my other two children's safety and my own. I cannot be with him 100% every single moment that he is home; his brothers have needs to and so do i, even if it is only to visit the loo; and that's usually when all hell breaks loose, the moment I stop controlling the situation and him, peace goes out the window.

[Sojourned]

I think this is the biggest stumbling block with ASD kids and their parents, to the parents these things seem insignificant things, if perchance I would ever express how I was feeling it was often met with a "don't be so stupid" or "for gods sake grow up". But these things are not insignificant to me, you have to multiply everything by 1000 to get how we're feeling.

Hammer, nail, head. Even tonight, over 6 years since I was diagnosed, my 'parents' still don't understand things like being a large busy restaurant seriously bothers me. It has done my entire life, there's been good reason for it for 6 years now and the connection still hasn't been made.

 

It's easy to say tell people what's bothering you, but I can't honestly remember a time when I've tried to explain why something affects me which hasn't been met with patronising or mocking comments. I'm sure many AS kids have had similar experiences and it leaves you with a hesitance to bother trying again. Even then, when I was younger I can remember not even being able to understand what was getting to me, much less explain it to anyone else.

 

I can vouch for your kids when you say they're beyond control and don't know what they're doing. Although I haven't done so for over 5 years now, whenever that line was crossed I had no control over (and very little recollection of) my actions. Last time resulted in the near-death of one of my teachers, since then I've managed to keep it under wraps - I just need my personal space and time to meditate and clear my mind.

[badonkadonk]

I'm glad I can be of help to some of you, it's quite nice feeling useful for once!!

 

I know I haven't submitted to many posts on here yet, but each time I do tend to ramble on a bit, so if you found anything useful in this post I would suggest that you also have a look at my other posts to see if any of that information could also be of help to you.

 

At the moment I'm not working, I haven't quite learnt enough about myself and how to effectively manage my AS in the workplace yet for me to be able to hold down a job, though I think 60% of this is my not having found the right job yet. Even though I'm only living on �412 A MONTH! I have parents who are not willing to kick me out into the cold just yet, though how I'm ever going to be able to gain independence is one of my biggest worries. Anyway, the reason I'm telling you this is because as a result of not working I have a lot of time on my hands so if I can be of further help to anyone just let me know. I'd rather sit here trying to help rather than sit here stupidly worrying about never being able to buy a house!

 

Hope everyone has a good weekend

 

Badonkadonk

xxx

[mum22boys]

Hi badonkadonk,

 

How lovely of you. <'>

 

It is so hard for us to understand our kids and all we usually have is books to refer to and here to ask advice. I found your post very informative and it has helped me understand how M percieves things.

 

I hope you continue to relpy to the posts as you are a god send.

 

Take Care

 

mum22boys <'>

[darky]

hi j's mum, my girl has only lashed out to me in fear, once the fear has gone, she stops and is sooooooooo apologetic. i cannot sanction that, even though its tempting. i talk to her, but im only telling her what she already knows, and sometimes i feel im just making her feel worse than she already does. i guess it depends on why j is lashing out and hurting you.

[JsMum]

Hi Darky,

 

Looking back it was a number of reason, we now know its the change in routine, 2nd it was before tea and may of been hungry and 3 rd he was winding up doing things he is not alowed to do, for example playing in the car park, and not listening to me for him to go into the back garden.

 

He then proceeded to act defiantly, and ignore my order and then he started climbing and reaching on a tree branch from a fence, and he was already high and would of hurt himself, I was telling him to get down and he wouldnt I warned I would bring him down, he ignored me and so I lifted him down, he then started to scream and layed on the floor and then he sunk his fingers into my ankles.

 

J is very defiant and doesnt like to do things others people ask, he is fine doing his own thing but once you tell him that climbing on fences and trees is not allowed for his own safety he became adgitated and then he lashed out.

 

JsMum

[darky]

hi there, boy can i relate to that. change in routine, just before dinner, is like a bomb going off in this house. my younger two with asd their behaviour gets really bad around that time. i just try and ignore as much as poss until we got dinner sorted, or try and slip back into routine asap. luckily they dont get violent towards me for things like that, but it does sound like j's violent reaction is out of frustration. does he see a consultant? is he on meds? i think it might be worth raising this.

[JsMum]

Hi Darky

 

J has been referred to see a community Autistic specailist, still waiting, J tried ritalin and it didnt help other problems J has he already has Anxiety and sensory difficulties and on Ritalin these became very bad, J also didnt eat, he is already clinically underweight, and his immune system reacted very badly to the combination, of not eating, feeling anxious and had about five viruses one after the other, he came off them in may after a lengthy discussion from his ADHD specialist.

 

Even on Ritalin he still became aggressive, I agree and think it is frustration and it has been from infancy he gets very angry and he has been on anger management and we have punch pads and gloves, he has all the relaxation techniques and the a space that is his to calm down, we have it all but out in the car park it wasnt available, I havent seen the true anger bit like that before because his frustration was clearly on his face he tried so hard not to let it go but it went and I felt it.

 

I going to get the books suggested including the out of syncs child.

 

J has been real busy but still a few problems with behaviour and aggression, but he hasnt hurt me so that is a positive.

 

I guess tomorrow its about timing and routines and having it as ridget as possible.

 

Ps We are also hoping to have some support in the home in a week or two, and no daught that will help with managing him.

 

Thankyou all for all your replies.

 

Js Mum

[darky]

i have to admit, the out of sync child has been like a bible to me, its a great book. we have to be ridged here as well and sometimes its really hard, but the rewards are great. visuals help a lot also as well as social stories.

[purplegail]

Hiya

My daughter has had complete 'meltdowns' for many years. I was at a complete loss as to why she couldn't 'snap out of it' or be calmed down by any method for many years. Then I read a book on autism and aspergers (can't remember the name - sorry!) which talked about the 'rage cycle'. It described exactly what I could see happening. It doesn't make things physically easier to handle and my house is suffering badly (holes in walls and broken door frames etc!!!!) but I feel better for understanding a little bit what goes on in her head. Sometimes, but far from often enough , I can recognise the signs and diffuse things early or at least remove my treasured possessions from the vicinity.

 

What gets me angry though is the real lack of support in this area. As a health or educational worker, you can be taught how to safely restrain a child like Laura. As a parent - nothing!!!! Laura is bigger than me and I need to protect her, myself and my younger son when she is having a meltdown but WE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO KNOW HOW TO DO THIS:angry: So what usually happens is one or all of us gets hurt And that's just the physical damage. My 9 year old and 16 year old see their Mum getting hurt and so have trouble controlling their anger.

 

Sorry for rambling. What I really need to say to you is demand help from anyone and everyone now to learn how to manage the rages.

 

Thinking of you

Gail

[dooday24]

REECE HAS MELTDOWNS ALL THE TIME I HAV SCRATCHES BITE MARKS AND PINCH MARKS EVERYWHERE BUT HE HASNT A CLUE AFTERWARDS WAT HE HAS DONE JUST TOTALLY EXHAUSTED. IT DOES WORRY ME AS HE GETS OLDER WAT DO I DO. AND ALSO MY OTHER CHILD IS ONLY 14 MONTHS YOUNGER AND HE ATTACKS HER AT TIMES. WHICH IS REALLY HARD.

[Mother in Need]

What gets me angry though is the real lack of support in this area. As a health or educational worker, you can be taught how to safely restrain a child like Laura. As a parent - nothing!!!! Laura is bigger than me and I need to protect her, myself and my younger son when she is having a meltdown but WE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO KNOW HOW TO DO THIS:angry: So what usually happens is one or all of us gets hurt And that's just the physical damage. My 9 year old and 16 year old see their Mum getting hurt and so have trouble controlling their anger.

 

Yeap, I too have been trying to get help in l earning this for years, but hey ho, Christmas never comes does it, it has still not materialised. To the point that I have now lost part of the use of my left arm because of all this, which means that I can protect my youngest and myself even less than before. But do the(SS) take note? Ofcourse not. EVERY CHILD MATTERS? Yeah, right, if it did, they'd help me protect his brothers at least, but they can't be bothered to get involved in any way.

[Platefull of Love]

Js Mum <'> <'> , Also Mum in Need, I am so angry for what you have gone through with no support <'>