Encouraging spontaneous speech

[Lyndalou]

My little boy's speech (now almost 4, diagnosed HFA) has improved a lot recently in terms of reciprocal or spontaneous speech but mostly remains primarily for conveying what he wants or needs (e.g. CBeebies/food etc). He uses a fair lot of echolia; what he hears mum and dad say and set phrases from various TV programmes which he says when he is upset or stressed. If I give him a telling off he says something about the Fat Controller being cross

 

He has always loved songs. When he was using very little language, I was able to gauge that he could follow a certain level of instruction by singing 'If you're happy and you know it' and he loved it and enthusiastically joined in with all the made-up instructions I gave him! Since then, books have been great to encourage recipricol language as he memorised a lot of certain books at one point so if I read some and then if I pointed to 'missing' words he would then say those words. Much of his language is still very jumbled or unintelligible but he appears to think he makes sense. I quite often repeat words back to him. He also has 'favourite' words that he repeats for a time and some words are perfect!

 

He is obviously now trying to make 'conversation' with us/adults although there is very little apart from laughing and screaming around other children. At home, he has always used quite a lot of good intonation and expression even when the language makes little sense. The clinical psychologist said recently that she liked his 'expressive eyebrows'

 

Does anybody know of any resources to encourage reciprocal speech or tips about how I could encourage him to use language around other children? It can be quite obvious in mainstream settings that he is not speaking although he makes good effort to socialise. I am confident that some of the things I am doing at the moment are helping but it may be good to incorporate more formal or just different techniques!

[dekra]

Sorry I can't help Lyndalou. My 4 year old is pretty similar, he uses very little intelligible language. What he does say is mainly to myself and his dad, around other people and children he says very very little at all.

[Sally44]

This should be part of the speech therapy programme.

Ask the speech therapist about it. You should be able to carry out his speech programme at home [as well as it being carried out in school], and it should include social communication, that is the remit of the SALT.

Took me three years to find that out!

So if they have not assessed his social communication, emotional literacy [there are lots of assessments they can do], phone the SALT and ask them IF they have assessed him, and if they have not ask them to do so - and follow it up with a letter confirming what you discussed and agreed.

[Lyndalou]

This should be part of the speech therapy programme.

Ask the speech therapist about it. You should be able to carry out his speech programme at home [as well as it being carried out in school], and it should include social communication, that is the remit of the SALT.

Took me three years to find that out!

So if they have not assessed his social communication, emotional literacy [there are lots of assessments they can do], phone the SALT and ask them IF they have assessed him, and if they have not ask them to do so - and follow it up with a letter confirming what you discussed and agreed.

Thanks Dekra and Sally

 

Sally, we've got my lad's first 'parent's evening' in a week's time and I'm gearing up for our 10 minute slot with the Nursery teacher! (Don't actually know if it's that short a meeting but just incase!) I filled in our goals for the coming year that was sent home when he started back at nursery in August and I would imagine that this will form the basis for discussion with her. I know that the Speech Therapist will also be on hand to speak to but I'm anticipating a long queue. I think they will say that his assessment is on-going over the course of the year

 

What I have gleaned from my discussions with other mums (of kids slightly older) is that Speech Therapy is very limited. The Nursery, to my knowledge, get one session (usually as a group) per week with the one therapist employed by the school (Nursery - 18 years) and that quite often her unqualified assistant takes sessions as she needs to attend reviews and other meetings. The general feeling seems to be that the input is too little, too patchy and the school is a bit cagey about this.

 

I'm going to see what is said at this meeting before I contact the Ed Psych again because the next formal review after this is not due to take place until March! In all honesty, I don't think I will be able to argue that my little lad gets more input at school without going to the Education Dept and arguing for them to employ another Speech Therapist and my understanding is that as he gets input at Nursery, he is not entitled to see an NHS Community-based Speech Therapist any longer. Thinking about it, perhaps that is something I need to double-check with the Ed Psych prior to the meeting and if I'm right, argue the case that he requires more one-to-one Community-based contact (probably more do-able than the school employing another therapist )

 

I'll definitely be asking if there are things I should be doing at home that I'm not in order to synchronise everything and I'll ask if what is discussed at his meeting can be put in writing. As we have a split placement with a mainstream playgroup I am so pleased to have a 'Split Placement Co-ordinator' on board to encourage Nursery and Playgroup to approach things in a similar (if not an identical) fashion and the woman seems on the ball but you're right, we have virtually nothing in writing yet pertaining to education and I'm supposed to make some sort of decision regarding Primary 1 come January 2012!!!

 

BTW, I've just been sent notice from a publishers I've used about a book called 'Developmental Speech - Language Training through Music for children with Autistic Spectrum Disorders' and I'm wondering if it's worth a read?

Edited October 20, 2011 by Lyndalou

[dekra]

I take it you are in Scotland?

[Lyndalou]

I take it you are in Scotland?

We're in Aberdeenshire and we're far enough out not to have boundary issues (yet) with Aberdeen because boy! when they don't agree you know it!!

 

It gets a bit confusing sometimes because I'm not sure what applies North as well as South of the Border like the fact that 'The Autism Act' was not passed by the Scottish Parliament I believe - correct me if I'm wrong

 

You're Inverness are you?

[dekra]

No I am down in Ayrshire.

[sesley]

do you read stories to him? it helps if you can read regular and get him to follow the words and say them as well,reading is a fantastic tool to help with speech development specailly with favourite characters like Thomas. You can do lots of input yourself. He can talk adn ask for things by what you say. Mine had delayed speech and used to repeat tv dialoge,but as he has matured his speech and understanding has improved. It will take some time and lots of patience.We found reading a very good way to get him using more language skills.

[Lynden]

I think you are right Lyndalou in that you are discharged from community SALT when they start a placement - I seem to remember L got his speech therapy in the SEN Unit and not outside of school once he started nursery when we were up there. We were lucky though in that he was seen once a week. You could ask them to formulate a plan that you could carry out with him at home though.

 

Lynne

[Sally44]

Scotland's SEN procedures are different to England's.

 

Go onto the Education form and click on the Educational publications and scroll down until you get to the part for Scotland.

 

I don't know anything about case law in Scotland. But in England Speech Therapy has been proven by previous legal rulings to be an Educational Need. That means it cannot be considered purely 'medical' and separated from the SEN guidance for education. If a child has problems with speech and language and social communication it will affect their learning. There is a proven link between the degree of speech disorder and associated difficulties learning to read and write. So in England you can argue for speech therapy on that basis, that it is an educational need, and therefore a need that must be met [using the Statement as the legally binding document].

 

Probably the National Autistic Society in Scotland will be able to give you advice.

 

You could consider private speech therapy, with you [and school if they agree] delivering the programme with the SALT reviewing it on a basis that you can afford. But consider that if you do take this approach you may not get speech therapy via the NHS as well. And to help fund that option, make sure you are claiming all the benefits you are entitled to in Scotland. In England you would be eligible for benefits such as Disability Living Allowance, Council Tax Benefit, Carers Allowance etc. If you do need to apply for any of these benefits, go to an organisation that can help you fill out the form.

[Sally44]

The only other thing I would add is that if his speech is so poor that you are probably looking for a special school placement. Children need to have a certain level of language to both understand and be understood. If that is not there, then a special school will have a more experienced teacher, and usually has greater access/budget to the speech therapist. He may also benefit for the special school environment. Or some mainstream primary schools may have an autism unit on site which are also worth visiting.

 

You can visit the school(s)/unit(s) and see what you think of them. You should be looking for a similar peer group to your son. I know it can be very hard to have to think about your child not being capable of going mainstream, but also consider that if you push for mainstream and you then find out he cannot cope/isn't learning/isn't happy, you would then have the problem that the special school places are all taken up by other kids.

[Lyndalou]

do you read stories to him? it helps if you can read regular and get him to follow the words and say them as well,reading is a fantastic tool to help with speech development specailly with favourite characters like Thomas. You can do lots of input yourself. He can talk adn ask for things by what you say. Mine had delayed speech and used to repeat tv dialoge,but as he has matured his speech and understanding has improved. It will take some time and lots of patience.We found reading a very good way to get him using more language skills.

Thanks Sesley

I firmly believe that part of the reason Stru's speech has improved is due to reading with him since he was a baby. He's had his firm favourites and it has meant that he has really wanted to have them as part of his bedtime routine. He lets me know if he's too tired for a book but normally it's 3! It is a lovely connection - it made me so happy when he started answering my questions and saying the words in the books.

[Lyndalou]

I think you are right Lyndalou in that you are discharged from community SALT when they start a placement - I seem to remember L got his speech therapy in the SEN Unit and not outside of school once he started nursery when we were up there. We were lucky though in that he was seen once a week. You could ask them to formulate a plan that you could carry out with him at home though.

 

Lynne

Thanks Lynden

 

I'm going to look into this further - it's nice to have a heads up before I contact the Ed Psych! I think I'll tread carefully on Parent's Evening because in many ways I think the Nursery are doing a great job with him but I'd like to know exactly what techniques they use there so I could do some of it at home...

 

Lynda

[Lyndalou]

Scotland's SEN procedures are different to England's.

 

Go onto the Education form and click on the Educational publications and scroll down until you get to the part for Scotland.

 

I don't know anything about case law in Scotland. But in England Speech Therapy has been proven by previous legal rulings to be an Educational Need. That means it cannot be considered purely 'medical' and separated from the SEN guidance for education. If a child has problems with speech and language and social communication it will affect their learning. There is a proven link between the degree of speech disorder and associated difficulties learning to read and write. So in England you can argue for speech therapy on that basis, that it is an educational need, and therefore a need that must be met [using the Statement as the legally binding document].

 

Probably the National Autistic Society in Scotland will be able to give you advice.

 

You could consider private speech therapy, with you [and school if they agree] delivering the programme with the SALT reviewing it on a basis that you can afford. But consider that if you do take this approach you may not get speech therapy via the NHS as well. And to help fund that option, make sure you are claiming all the benefits you are entitled to in Scotland. In England you would be eligible for benefits such as Disability Living Allowance, Council Tax Benefit, Carers Allowance etc. If you do need to apply for any of these benefits, go to an organisation that can help you fill out the form.

Thanks Sally

 

I had a skim read of the Scottish Legislation and will print it out for future reference. I don't see anything in it specifically about Speech Therapy provision but I'll phone the NAS for advice about the educational support we should expect. I have been told who to contact about benefits and my husband and I had decided not to pursue those meantime but if we go down the road of private therapy then I think it would be wise to look into it further. Private therapy was something that had crossed my mind.

 

Also, at the moment we are waiting to see how much more Stru's speech etc improves with regards to whether or not we 1) have him go to mainstream primary next August (Special Needs Unit attached) 2) defer him for a year and continue at Special Needs Nursery (if he is allowed to) or 3) he goes into primary school level at the Special Needs school he attends for Nursery. We've seen such a big improvement in his speech and his attempts to interact and play with other kids in the last 6 months that I'm keeping my fingers crossed that he might be able to cope with mainstream primary. However, it's less than a year so I know I need to keep in mind that his progress could slow or plateau and I'm well aware of his anxiety around other children so I'm trying not to get too ahead of myself!

 

Lynda

[Lyndalou]

We had a very positive meeting with the Nursery teacher and Nursery Assistant last night. We were able to talk about Stru's progress and what they were doing with him for half an hour which I didn't expect!

 

According to them, at Nursery he responds very well to the Visual Timetable. At home we hadn't made one up as he has always seemed to cope well with us giving him ample verbal warning about changes etc but now I'm thinking it would be a good idea for us to have a simple timetable to keep his stress as low as possible. I'm going to suggest it to the Playgroup too to see if they are open to the idea. The school is going to provide us with pictures for consistency.

 

In the Nursery itself, outside of the time that he sees the Speech Therapist they have begun to use a structured language programme called the 'Derbyshire Programme'. At the moment, they are still assessing his language level but once they've done that we've been told that they'll share with us the techniques they are using (but I'll swot up a bit on it before then! ).

 

We've been told that with regards to Primary 1, his place at his Special Needs school is safe and it would be a simple transition from Nursery to Primary 1 next year should we go down that road We've also been told that it would be entirely possible to have a split placement with as little as half a day at mainstream initially which I was taken aback by but someone has done this before! Their main concern about him going mainstream though would be the amount of other pupils in the class - they think it might be a bit much for him meantime.

 

All in all though a very good and open discussion

 

Lynda x

[Sally44]

Sounds like a positive meeting.

 

Please don't underestimate how important the right environment and class size is for children with an ASD. If they are struggling due to issues with those things, it makes it very hard for them to concentrate, learn and make sense of things.

 

The main thing to think about if a 'split' placement is offered is whether your child would cope with two environments, two sets of peers, different teachers etc. Some parents may post and say how it worked for their child. Others may post and say it did not work usually down to how the ASC affects their child.

 

If they are talking about special and mainstream, that sounds like it would also involve travelling between two different placements?? If it were a Unit within a mainstream school, that would make any transitions smoother.

 

For example, if he was in the mainstream school and was not coping, what would they do? They could not take him to the special school because the transfer taxi would be booked for a certain time? You have to consider how it will work if things are going well with your son. But also how the dual placement would meet his needs IF he were not coping with any aspect of this dual placement arrangement.

 

For example, my son is not attending school full time. The LA arranged for a taxi to take him to his former school for two sessions a week. He went with the taxi driver. But then refused to get out of the taxi because he was too anxious about going into the school. So then the teacher had to come to the house and take him in her car, so that IF he refused she could bring him back home again - because the taxi driver cannot do that on the spur of the moment.

 

Do any of your primary or secondary schools have an Autism Unit within their grounds? You can phone the LA and ask them.

[Lyndalou]

Sounds like a positive meeting.

 

Please don't underestimate how important the right environment and class size is for children with an ASD. If they are struggling due to issues with those things, it makes it very hard for them to concentrate, learn and make sense of things.

 

The main thing to think about if a 'split' placement is offered is whether your child would cope with two environments, two sets of peers, different teachers etc. Some parents may post and say how it worked for their child. Others may post and say it did not work usually down to how the ASC affects their child.

 

If they are talking about special and mainstream, that sounds like it would also involve travelling between two different placements?? If it were a Unit within a mainstream school, that would make any transitions smoother.

 

For example, if he was in the mainstream school and was not coping, what would they do? They could not take him to the special school because the transfer taxi would be booked for a certain time? You have to consider how it will work if things are going well with your son. But also how the dual placement would meet his needs IF he were not coping with any aspect of this dual placement arrangement.

 

For example, my son is not attending school full time. The LA arranged for a taxi to take him to his former school for two sessions a week. He went with the taxi driver. But then refused to get out of the taxi because he was too anxious about going into the school. So then the teacher had to come to the house and take him in her car, so that IF he refused she could bring him back home again - because the taxi driver cannot do that on the spur of the moment.

 

Do any of your primary or secondary schools have an Autism Unit within their grounds? You can phone the LA and ask them.

You are absolutely right Sally, I have a lot to think about. At the moment he is coping relatively well in his mainstream Playgroup - at most there are about 16 3-4 yr olds in the group to 3 playworkers and 1 parent helper every session. I know that the ratios will be closer to 30 children to 1 teacher and 1 teaching assistant when or if he goes on to mainstream Primary and I have been warned by Nursery that teaching support cuts are imminent across Aberdeenshire even within the Special Needs school although they intend to vehemently fight those cuts.

 

The mainstream Primary is 10 mins walk from where I live. It has a Special Needs (not specifically Autism) unit attached. Whether or not this unit will be a target of the cuts, I do not know However, I have been told that there appears to be a minimal grasp of the needs of autistic children - probably a case of the staff knowing a litle bit about lot of different support needs. A friend told me she had to explain to a (very dedicated) member of support staff what PECS was (although this may reflect that the children admitted would mostly not have speech difficulties? )so obviously it makes me wonder what resources would be available there t support children with speech and associated difficulties. My intention is to contact the Ed Psych or even contact the school directly re organising a visit to see the unit. Perhaps, naively with regards to transport issues and a possible split placement, I'm thinking at the moment that if there are problems in that respect that I would be able to do pickups as my little girl is still very young and the Special Needs school is 10 mins away in the car.

 

I'm thinking more and more though that a possible scenario for next year could be Primary 1 at Special Needs School with entry to Primary 1 the year after as this is something that can be done As the Nursery teacher put it, his could put him 'ahead of the game'. The only thing is that I have been trying to ensure that he maintains contact with the same kids as he has had contact with since toddlers so he knows them and they know him and I now wonder if that's a bit of a futile exercise!

 

I have to be realistic. As it would seem that I had similar problems (although I had precocious speech in contrast) with zoning out, not being able to follow instructions, interrupting and shouting out, problems with staying still and all the accompanying anxiety issues and in my day intolerant and abusive behaviour from teachers (although I'm not convinced they don't still exist), I've been trying to remember what it felt like - the overriding memory I have is one of confusion. I don't want my lad to feel confused, I want him to feel at ease to learn and grow and feel valued.

 

Lynda

Edited October 28, 2011 by Lyndalou

[Sally44]

Is the special school ASD specific?

 

The Unit sounds more like Moderate Learning Difficulties if they have no knowledge of PECS.

 

Autism is different to MLD. Children with autism can need totally different approaches and support for those with a MLD.

 

At our recent Tribunal we argued that my son was not suitable for that Unit because the children [although they were all on the autistic spectrum], were more severely autistic and were not a suitable academic or social group for him. And that argument was agreed by the school SENCO. So it is VERY important to get a placement as suitable as you possibly can.

 

I would have thought that ASD specific is essential. Visit any school or unit that is ASD specific, see what the children are like. Ask what qualifications the teachers have, and what ASD approaches they use eg. TEACCH. Ask what budget they have for SALT, OT etc and ask what the pupil:staff ratio is. Ask about playtimes and unstructured times. If it is a unit attached to a mainstream primary, ask them how many of the children in the unit are currently fed across for National Curriculum lessons such as English and Maths.

 

Make sure that you get specific examples of what the school means because they tend to use "SEN speak", which sometimes is totally different to what you think they mean. For example I was told that "children in the unit Access mainstream". When I asked for what lessons I was told that they don't access any of the lessons, but they do 'access' the building by taking something to the school office.

 

I thought their initial explanation was very misleading. The child is not 'accessing' anything if they are just walking through the front door. That isn't accessing mainstream education at all.

 

When I had to make the decision I had to choose between a high level of support mainstream [in a class that also had a proportion of other ASD children], or the ASD unit. I felt that his social needs would not be met in the Unit because some of those children were non-verbal - but I felt the environment was right. However there were no places available in the Unit, and on reflection I probably would have decided for him to remain mainstream in the class that also had other ASD children. However it did not work. The mainstream staff did not have any additonal qualfications in ASD or any of the typically accompanying co-morbid disorders.

 

My son failed academically and is 10+ and still illiterate. He failed socially because most of the children are NT, and social together and exclude the ASD children who tend to walk up and down the playground. He failed physically because he has dyspraxia. And he did not get access to any professional input or therapy. He is now a school refuser due to an Anxiety Disorder, and now only goes into school for two sessions, which last about an hour long and he refuses to go outside during playtime.

 

Obviously your son is not my son. If he had gone into the autism unit would he have coped better - maybe - probably. Would he have learnt more - maybe. Would he have had more access to professionals - not necessarily. Would we be in the same situation now - who knows?

 

All you can do is aim for the best you can get at this point in time. And I think the most important is an placement with ASD experience and expertise and hopefully qualifications. At this point you don't know if he has accompanying difficulties acquiring literacy/numeracy skills.