Spoiling Vs coping

[Lynden]

I'm trying to decide if I'm coping with an autistic child, Logan (2.5), or spoiling (for want of a better word), and am not sure where to change/adapt the rules etc for Leona (NT and 4 in a fortnight).

 

ie today with Logans eating. Eating has always been an issue as has weight gain though he's now thankfully back onto the 25th centiles. Anyways, today for lunch he was first offered spagetti which he refused, then a sandwich which he refused and eventually crisps (fail safe) which he ate. Tonight at dinner he was offered spag bol which he refused, sweetcorn and pasta bake which he refused (but Leona loves) and now is eating chips and an apple.

 

Leona would have possibly been offered one alternative and thats it. With Logan I'm just glad to get him to eat, and he doesn't udnerstand the reward/punishment thing so can't use that (he's completely non verbal atm with very limited understanding/non verbal communication). Do I keep offering the healthy stuff first, or do I just give him the cr*p I know he'll eat?

 

Secondly, thinking ahead here but I hate TVs in bedrooms (sorry to anyone who has one) and this year Leona asked for one because half her class got them for Christmas (no joke) and we said no. However, I can totally see Logan having one at some point this year because its becoming clearer that his sleep patterns are going to continue to be erratic as is his early rising but I know TV will entertain him and I'm probably going to put one in his room to save my sanity.

 

So, do I then let Leona have one, or force her to live by 'normal' rules?

 

Last time we were out for dinner, I made Leona stay up in her seat because I dont like kids running about when people are eating, but Logan got to wander round our chairs/sit on the floor behind us as it avoided more dramatic meltdown. Again, am I being unfair on Leona. I know I'm not, but I know that she's young enough to understand totally why Logan gets off with so much - although she does try and understand.

 

Difficult as I can see a lot of these situations arising so I just wondered how everyone else dealt with situations like these.

 

Lynne x

[Bullet]

Ds1 is also two and a half and the paediatrician has said yesterday that he fits into the ASD spectrum, though she is unsure yet which "shore he will land in" (to quote her). I am probably more strict with him than he deserves, because with him I know that he needs very simple, very clear guidelines. But I do give him some leeway. Eg he does not like crunchy food so although he is offered it, I do not make a fuss about him eating it. He can stand to eat his dinner, or use his hands, but must stay by his table and try some of the food that's at the texture he's ok with. He can watch some tv but is warned by waving byebye at the credits and telling him that the tv will go off and it doesn't go on again even if he screams the place down. He can look at a picture book when he goes to bed, but must be quiet whilst doing so.

[OPooh]

I think with the food thing that you may think that they don't understand reward/pinishment but they will understand the hunger. Me personally I would keep offering different foods - and that is foods - so that nourishment is coming out of it - so no crisps, biscuits etc - but more apples, bananas and things.

 

Even with ASD they still need a good diet and boundaries for behaviour (IMO)>

 

Good luck.

[Lynden]

Ds1 is also two and a half and the paediatrician has said yesterday that he fits into the ASD spectrum, though she is unsure yet which "shore he will land in" (to quote her). I am probably more strict with him than he deserves, because with him I know that he needs very simple, very clear guidelines. But I do give him some leeway. Eg he does not like crunchy food so although he is offered it, I do not make a fuss about him eating it. He can stand to eat his dinner, or use his hands, but must stay by his table and try some of the food that's at the texture he's ok with. He can watch some tv but is warned by waving byebye at the credits and telling him that the tv will go off and it doesn't go on again even if he screams the place down. He can look at a picture book when he goes to bed, but must be quiet whilst doing so.

 

Hi Bullet

 

Logan has been in the system since he was 12 months and was fully assessed and diagnosed officially in November last year. He's also developmentally delayed though and is round about the 12 month mark so his understanding is far behind a standard 2.5 year old. We do have guidelines for him, but I guess at the moment they are very lax because we're not dealing with a 'toddler' even though he is if you see what I mean!

 

Lynne

[Lynden]

I think with the food thing that you may think that they don't understand reward/pinishment but they will understand the hunger. Me personally I would keep offering different foods - and that is foods - so that nourishment is coming out of it - so no crisps, biscuits etc - but more apples, bananas and things.

 

Even with ASD they still need a good diet and boundaries for behaviour (IMO)>

 

Good luck.

 

Hi oPooh

 

Definitely agree re boundaries for behaviour. I guess he would understand hunger (though he can't communicate it yet) but I think I am lax re food and giving him choices because we've had so many issues with him and his weigh in the past. The crisps etc are always a last resort, never first choice, but I'm still paranoid about his weight so kinda feel crisps are better than nothing iyswim.

 

Lynne

[OPooh]

In my experience then they will eventually eat something. I mean you're not offering foods not liked - but things you know will be eaten - such as the apple, even if this means they live off the same foods. I tried to comprimise with my son and he had fruit winders - still not good for him but had some goodness.

 

Eventually he did eat better too and now he's 9 eats what we give him generally (within reason).

 

Good luck with it....oh and I was told that if you present the same food 50 times before they will eat it or something - lol sounds like a lot of hard work doesn't it.

 

At the end of the day though you do what you think feels right for you and your child

[Bullet]

Ds1 is almost certainly developmentally delayed as well, but it's difficult to tell as he is so unresponsive. He has a fantastic memory but struggles to follow even one step instructions unless there are gestures as well. Things like "get your coat and bring it to me" would be beyond him at this stage.

[Lynden]

Eventually he did eat better too and now he's 9 eats what we give him generally (within reason).

 

Good luck with it....oh and I was told that if you present the same food 50 times before they will eat it or something - lol sounds like a lot of hard work doesn't it.

 

At the end of the day though you do what you think feels right for you and your child

 

Thats good to know there is hope he will eat normally at some point! We have a stocked cupboard of things like humzingers (those dried fruit bars) etc that he will eat so whilst its not ideal its not total junk. Maybe I dont persevere long enough - someone did tell me that 50 times thing yesterday too!

 

Def a lot of work

 

Lynne

[Lynden]

Ds1 is almost certainly developmentally delayed as well, but it's difficult to tell as he is so unresponsive. He has a fantastic memory but struggles to follow even one step instructions unless there are gestures as well. Things like "get your coat and bring it to me" would be beyond him at this stage.

 

He sounds a lot like Logan, he doesn't understand basic commands either, though he doesn't have a great memory either - or he might have - but we just dont know it yet! Where are you in the process of getting him assessed? We were lucky in that our diagnosis was relatively quick and we have loads of support in place.

 

Lynne

[Bullet]

He was referred by our GP late last year after I'd mentioned a couple of things to the health visitors and they'd then spoken to the GP with concerns of their own. On Monday just gone (the 16th) he was seen by a paediatrician at our local hospital who asked a load of questions and watched him play and who then said he fitted onto the ASD spectrum and was not like a "normal" two and a half year old. So he has had professionals agreeing he has an ASD, but has not had a formal diagnosis. That is expected to happen in about a year.

[baddad]

I think the food thing is a real hard nut to crack...

In some cases, the 'no compromise' stance suggested by LLaverty can work, but i aslo know that our kids DO NOT have the same sort of hunger impulses as the rest of us sometimes...

A friend of mine went through hell with her kid - hospitalised 3 times for malnourishment because he simply would not eat (nothing to do with dysmorphia/aenorexia etc - he just didn't recognise the signal, and wouldn't be 'forced')... On the other hand, i have another friend who's littlun lives on nothing but chips and nuggets and I KNOW that if i took him for a week I could get him eating more... i think all you can do is weigh up YOUR kid, and be realistic about it. Hard, but our kids can be manipulative little beggars just like any other kids, and that 'ASD' magic can mean that they are much more determined and resilient when you do try to tackle it...

On the siblings thing - try to forget about 'normal' boundaries and go with what fits you as a family... a sibling will have to make many compromises throughout their lives, so the odd call that comes down in their favour is a must if you want to even things out...

L&P

BD

[Lynden]

I think the food thing is a real hard nut to crack...

In some cases, the 'no compromise' stance suggested by LLaverty can work, but i aslo know that our kids DO NOT have the same sort of hunger impulses as the rest of us sometimes...

A friend of mine went through hell with her kid - hospitalised 3 times for malnourishment because he simply would not eat (nothing to do with dysmorphia/aenorexia etc - he just didn't recognise the signal, and wouldn't be 'forced')... On the other hand, i have another friend who's littlun lives on nothing but chips and nuggets and I KNOW that if i took him for a week I could get him eating more... i think all you can do is weigh up YOUR kid, and be realistic about it. Hard, but our kids can be manipulative little beggars just like any other kids, and that 'ASD' magic can mean that they are much more determined and resilient when you do try to tackle it...

On the siblings thing - try to forget about 'normal' boundaries and go with what fits you as a family... a sibling will have to make many compromises throughout their lives, so the odd call that comes down in their favour is a must if you want to even things out...

L&P

BD

 

Thanks BD

 

Wasn't me who suggested no compromise btw as I offer till he eats at the moment . I'm not sure actually how strong Logans hunger impulses are either as he's rarely hungry and eats so little and because he was already referred for weight loss I worry! Thanks re the siblings too - I think you are right, if they get the odd bonus then its not a bad thing as she will have to make a lot of compromises having an autistic brother.

 

Lynne

[Bullet]

I can sympathise personally with the no hunger cues as I don't often feel hungry and often have to force myself to eat.

[call me jaded]

I think sorting out eating habits has been one of the most difficult things I have done. It does actually take steely determination and what works for one child doesn't work for others.

 

My son was just below the 25th centile when he was born and ended up way below the third centile. I discussed it at every medical consultation we were at. The school actually refused to give me their records on what he weighed at the start of every term as the new school nurse believed they could not possibly be accurate. The paed used to ask what he ate, which was the healthy meditterranean diet and offered reassurance that it must just be the way he was. Thankfully she is a bit more aware of the gastro/autism/immune problems now and does refer ASD children to dieticians. But at the time I was left on my own to find out - we were in the middle of all that MMR kerfuffle with all those reports denying autism and gastro connections, which didn't help with the medics.

 

It took me over a year to build up the courage to do it, but I removed almost every single food item from his diet - all the pasta, cheese, hula-hoops, weetabix, bread, madeira cake, yogurt, porridge, gallons of milk - everything I used to fill him up when he refused to eat. And yes, hula-hoops were the last resort.

 

He ate nothing for three days and I was getting ready to crack. Then he ate the GF muffins I'd just baked for him.

 

Now he eats just about anything that is gluten and dairy free, has gained weight and looks healthy, even if he's terribly small for his age. He gets the same treatment over food as the other children - everybody has the same meal, if for any reason they don't want it, they have to wait until everyone has finished eating and they are then offered a sandwich/toast and some fruit. He rarely takes this option.

 

I hardly have any problems now when it comes to food, which is lovely because it was such a worry and stress factor previously. I just wanted to offer some encouragement that it's not as hard as it may seem and the benefits, for us, outweigh any of the difficulties and inconvenience, and it is VERY inconvenient at times.

[call me jaded]

That's Jaded, otherwise known as Call Me Delia.

[Klou]

Llaverty

 

We only have one child but I can understand exactly the food and spoiling thing. We have a tv in DS's room . He is only 4 and I used to think what terrible parents people must be if they let such young children watch tv in there room all day and night. However, having an asd child (I can say that now! WOW!) has meant that we have altered what we do gradually and after a lot of heartache. So the TV was already in there from when some room changes happened and never got taken away. It is used when we need some space. DS would have the tv on all day downstairs if we let him and tantrum if we won't. As we have an open plan house it would mean no music or sport for us grown ups. So the tv is not on downstairs all day ie we have regained control of the buttons but if needed it can go on upstairs as an alternative and if other activities have been done or if he just needs to chill out. He can't turn it on though, it is too high up so we have some control and it will never be used at bedtime. I love reading the bedtime story too much and so does DS!

 

As for food our biggest tantrums and meltdowns were over food/meal times. Mainly because we wanted him to eat proper family meals with us. He doesn't necessarily do sitting at the table for a family dinner especially if there are visitors about. He doesn' t like seeing lots of dishes to help himself from. So I modify now. Dinner served on the plate generally and he eats 'his' food with encouragement to try a mouthful of ours if he wants. I am lucky, ds has an almost obsessional relationship with fruit, raisins etc as well as with chips and other junk. There are days he just doesn't eat. Other days he eats bucket loads and holidays etc I might as well not bother because the stress stops him eating.

 

We are considering offering the same food on each day on a two/three week cycle. His nursery do this and although he didn't eat much to start with, other than fruit/raisins at snack time he now eats what they serve. This includes mixed food like lasagne and stew that he will not touch at home. (He can and has gone to bed hungry in my attempts to make him eat through hunger) Interestingly after christmas the kitchens didn't have the usual rota for the first week and they noticed he didn't eat like he usually would. The change put him off I think.

 

Also now he is older he has more understanding of the 'nothing else unless you eat .......' idea and it has been used to good effect recently.

[OPooh]

I can sympathise personally with the no hunger cues as I don't often feel hungry and often have to force myself to eat.

 

Yes I do that too.

 

Oh the other bit of advice I was given is that when I was less anxious about it and it was less of a "problem" for me the more likely it wouldn't be an issue and he'd eat normally - don't know how much of that is true but made the wait easier.

 

Things going any better?