Lying and stealing.

[sel]

Hi all,

 

Sorry i have not been around for a while, i have bbeen having a rather bad time of it lately.

I am posting now to ask wether anyone else has found this, if so what do i do about it?.

My nine year old has become really sneaky, he has stolen things from peoples houses, then lied about it.

He does things and you know that he has done it and he says he hasn't. He tells lies than are clearly lies!.

School don't allow toy's and things to be taken into school, i have been told constantly to insure that he doesn't bring things into school. I cheak his bag, pockets etc before school, he promises he has nothing. Then i find out from school that he has managed to sneak something in by hiding it in his belt hooks on his trousers or in his undies or something.

I am at my wits end!. I take him into shops with me etc and the shop-keeper/staff watch him like a hawk, eventhough he has never stolen from a shop. He just looks and acts like he is about to nick something, it terrible and its making me feel horrid. I can't stand poeple that are liers,cheats and are dishonest, and my son is one of them.

I really don't know what to do. He does not listen to me at all, i have tried talking to him, taking him back to peoples houses to return what he has taken but he shows no regrets or anything, he does not seem the least bit bothered!.

I hope someone can offer some advise, please. it really starting to get me down.

 

Thanks

Sel.

[baddad]

Hi sel -

Have no direct experience of this, so the following are all 'thoughts' on it...

Is the lying a new thing? Did he previously have a real understanding that other's perceptions could be different to his (some kids have big problems with this, and even while they can express an understanding of 'self' and 'others', on a fundamental level they still find it somewhat confusing)? If this is a newly acquired 'skill', then he may be experimenting to find the boundaries...

Is the intent with the concealed stuff to get something he wants into school, or to 'defeat the system?' If the former, would it really hurt for the school to make an exception (don't accept "we don't want to differentiate" - your child IS different, and they will differntiate already where it's useful to them, so sometimes - within reason - that should go the other way too)

Does he steal to get things he wants, or is the 'reward' something else? Somewhere in the equation there will be a reward, it's just a matter of getting to what that might be.

Not caring about consequences/feeling social embarassment when caught - This isn't that surpprising, considering his diagnosis. Perhaps social stories might help? I can be a bit 'hard line' about this sort of thing; I sometimes think that the end justifies the means (within reason) and if you can't get the message across the right way you might have to use the 'tough love' approach... To understand someone elses 'loss' it may be necessary for your son to experience loss too. If he steals something that belongs to someone else, confiscate (or exclude him from) something that matters to him. This may lead to an 'awareness' of the other persons feelings, or possibly just minimise the behaviour because HE doesn't want to feel loss. The second's not ideal, but it is better than being regarded as dishonest/untrustworthy...

Finally: what else is going on in his life. There may be other stuff that's indirectly impacting on the behaviour... Winona Ryder didn't need to steal clothes, it was an outward sign of some other need that wasn't being addressed...

Hope that helps in someway

L&P

BD

[Elouise]

I have not any answers to why your son is doing this I can only relate in regards to nathan *that BOY!*

 

The headteacher of his old ASD primary school used to describe Nathan as 'Having a veneer surface of abilty and all chipboard underneath' I live with that boy and its the best summing up of nathan ever.

 

Nathan had another problem that drove his headteacher and form teachers crazy.

As soon as nathan got his hands on ANYTHING because it was in Nathans hands it became Nathans.

 

I have had phone calls form his school that begin 'Hope you do not mind but we are ringing all the parents of known kleptomaniacs...could you have a look and see if it was your child who took the tuck money tin home please....' *yes you guessed it...and I found a near complete collection of other childrens diner money too. He had remembered you had to have money to buy things in the shop he had not known you were not meant to steal the money to pay for the goods.

 

I cannot stop him because I have not honestly found a way to get through that just because its in HIS hands it does not mean it is HIS.

 

I have a letter from his psychitrist to take down to the police station to get him bailed back out as a vulnerable adult who is not sure on what is right and wrong.

I arranged for the local police to come and visit Nathan; tell him what they would do if he was found walking out of shops with any more goods and where he would have to wait untill his mum or social worker could get there.

It even included a tour of the local lock up so he knows exactly where they would take him whilst they contact an adult to act as his advocate.

 

Nathan is also bright enough to lie 'No I know nothing about choclate biscuits in the cupboard'

Ah yes that is true my lad...you've eaten them and they are no longer in the cupboard they are inside you!'

'It was not me who opened the biscuits and ate them under my bed at 7pm mom honest'

He is a terrible liar.

 

Nathan is unable to understand that other people have their own 'things' that in shops you have to PAY for them then they are yours...we are still making him do the roll play by standing over him to buy his own things and telling im that the reciept tells the policeman its Nathans not the shops.

He is also bright in his own little ways and that can get him into trouble. I concluded a long time ago...Nathan does things ordinary normal kids do but he always has to do them that much longer that much harder and that much more so before he begins to learn from it.

 

I can only get away with telling him off if I catch him red handed in the act or it does not go in.

 

Have a think and consider if he is struggling with things belonging to other people as Nathan does.

 

IF I ever work out a way of persuading Nathan to stp doing this I will let you know sadly I think its a long learning slope for this one.

[Lucas]

The problem with an area where there is a huge communication barrier is that you may not know when the person knows something is wrong and the reasons why. For some it can be a case of knowing the reasons why something may be wrong, but they have considered other invisible reasons that contradict it, so they can't tell if it is wrong.

 

As a youngster it was very hard for me to understand how ownership was distributed. I was a seven year old Marxist. I was told repeatedly that things were not mine and I understood it, but I also had questions which I couldn't ask like: "How do I get things and make them mine?", "What did others do to own things?", "If I become the owner of something, it has to have had a previous owner, how did they get ownership of it?".

 

And when I am unable to ask these questions or they are not answered, in my mind ownership is nothing more than a suggestion with no definitive reason to adhere to.

[mossgrove]

Our 5 year old is younger, but he absolutely no sense of personal property. If he wants something he will just take it, and any attempts to explain go way over his head!

 

Simon