Canopus
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Posts posted by Canopus
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I was discussing future educational strategies with the parents of a HE 11 YO with AS who are interested in setting up their own school. Their ideal model is that it will offer a curriculum based around real world life skills rather than traditional academic subjects although it will offer a handful of GCSEs and other qualifications. The only problem is that they think there is no market for such a school because the majority of parents feel that an AS school based around the NC puts kids on an equal footing with those who attended a mainstream school even though it may not be an ideal curriculum, but a heavily non-standard education is taking a big gamble. What do you think?
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Where most atheist (or humanist) arguments fall down is that they start from the premise that human understanding is supreme and so of course they cannot comprehend anything beyond their own understanding.
My experience of strong rationalists is that they dislike venturing outside of the territory of the known into the unknown.
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One question which I have never had a satisfactory answered to is what did God do before time began, before Genesis.Creationism is one thing. The book of Genesis is another.
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I have discussed this subject at AS support groups many times. Concerns were raised by parents that far too many primary school teachers now have academic qualifications far above or irrelevant to the subjects that they teach - like degrees in media studies or foreign languages - whilst at the same time they lack knowledge of SEN. It would be much better for them and the kids the teachers got their GCSEs then went to training college and the time they spent in higher education was spent learning about SEN instead. My reply was that there is a lack of good courses about ASD and it can only be properly understood in a hands on setting. This is why the situation regarding knowledge is very ad hoc with many of the teachers who are more experienced and knowledgeable about ASD lacking formal qualifications whilst many teachers who have SEN qualifications lack knowledge of ASD. Unfortunately the state school system has a tickbox mentality and fails to effectively consider practical experience such as working in an AS support group at the time of applying for a job.
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In general I believe that people who regard science as being in conflict with religion have a serious misunderstanding of one, and probably both. Broadly speaking science is about "how" and religion about "why". If science contradicted religion then all good scientists would be atheists - and that is clearly not the case.
Atiitudes towards religion vary depending on which branch of science the scientist specialises in. Mathematicians and nuclear physicists have a higher proportion of religious people in their ranks than molecular biologists do. Some years ago I encountered a debate about religion between an atheist biologist and a Muslim electronic engineer. The biologist claimed that the electronic engineer is religious simply because nothing in the branch of science he specialises in conflicts with religion but if he understood molecular biology as well as he does then he would seriously be doubting his religious texts.
I don't see anything in the parenting of an ASD child that would cause someone to abandon religion, rather the opposite as the inclusivity of christian message (particularly of the reformed churches - the Catholics are a law unto themselves) should be welcoming to those who find that most of the secular organisations are at best indifferent and more commonly actively hostile to ASD children.The couple didn't abandon religion solely on having a child with autism. It was the science that persuaded them. The couple also has an ill feeling towards many secular organisations - particularly the British Humanist Association - for a variety of reasons.
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In a lot of ways religion is becoming more of a service industry selling a belief package and less of a product provider selling a moral and ethical compass. As a result having a child with ASD might simply raise the questions in those individuals with a faith did I subscribe to the right belief package. There might have been a time where religion operated out of the local church in the same way as we got products from our local store and choice was somewhat limited, I feel those days for many are long behind us. Religion is sold in the supermarket environment and as such there are options available in the aisles marked christianity etc... and as a result changing belief packages is akin to changing breakfast cereals in some ways. If the religious leader of my local church can not accept my change of cirumstances and with them a desire to slighlty move position then it might be a case someone taks a look at what is on the shelf next to thier existing product. What they might find as in breakfast cereals is that they are all trying very hard to push forwards their unique selling points but they are all basically made of wheat with a bit of sugar added to make the consumption a bit easier.
I don't quite agree with this one because the majority of people who follow a religion - both in Britain and the rest of the world - either follow the religion of their parents or a religion that is prominent in the country (or more precisely the locality) that they live in. Only a tiny fraction change to following a very different religion as a result of their own investigative research. Another factor is whether the religion fits in with their own personal lifestyle. If somebody enjoys drinking wine then they are unlikely to become a Muslim even if certain aspects of Islam appeals to them. A secondary factor is how active are the people who claim to follow a particular religion. Certain religions such as large Protestant Christian churches and Hinduism have a high proportion of followers who are just notional and do not involve themselves in religious activities apart from say weddings or major (and more often than not fun rather than spiritual) celebrations.
Besides the bible doesn't stand for freedom, it stands for xenophobia, misogyny, homophobia and much more amoral stuff.
I have encountered numerous atheists to the core who are quite supportive of xenophobia, misogyny, homophobia and much more amoral stuff. Some even say that they support over 90% of Sharia Law!
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I have encountered a couple who abandoned religion because of a severely autistic son. They used to be devout Christians, not only personally but as activists encouraging people who were not religious to enter the fold of Christianity. Originally they were C of E but later moved to a traditional and socially conservative independent church after the C of E changed its policy on gay rights in the 80s and then (in their words) lost its way and lost touch with its congregation in the name of political correctness. Having a severely autistic son which created no end of heartache for both himself and others made them question aspects of religion. They could understand physical disabilities but had difficulty coming to terms with why God could allow such mental disabilities to exist. Explanations like life is full of challenges or dealing with adversity were not good enough as they felt that the situation had gone too far.
It was not just the endless stress and problems caused by their autistic son that made them lose faith in religion. They first turned to the study of medicine and later the study of science - particularly genetics and evolution. While the parents were Christians they considered Richard Dawkins to be an arrogant and loud mouthed propaganda merchant who should spend more time in the lab. After initial scepticism reading his books they increasingly concluded that he and his fellow molecular biologists are infact right. Continued study of genetics and molecular biology moved them away from religion. Not just Christianity but all forms of religion which they increasingly concluded were falsehood and disproved by science. Their next course of action was support for gene therapy and genetic modification of humans. They strongly believed that if the genes which caused medical and psychological problems could be identified and then corrected using gene therapy then it should be implemented in practice. It was simply the next stage in the development of medicine from organ transplants. In their opinion religious groups opposed to genetic modification were immoral and irresponsible when much human suffering could be eliminated by eliminating faulty genes.
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Have any parents here abandoned religion as a result of having a child with ASD?
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It is noticable that many of the best schools now prefer a range of different qualifications (e.g. IGCSE) to the domestic ones.
I have previously stated an increasing interest in IGCSEs from within the AS community but uptake has been hindered because the NAS does not recommend them. Discussions with the NAS has revealed the reason being that it does much of its work in the mainstream school system that will not (for the foreseeable future) offer IGCSEs because they don't fit in with the NC.
The root of the problem is the idea of "One Size Fits All" education that has been prevelant for the past 30-40 years - it is clearly nonsense but has been driving education to an imaginary middle ground that works for no oneTeaching unions share much of the blame for inhibiting child focused developments along with 'lefties' in the education system who promote the one size fits all model under the banner of equality. My findings are that the political left in England generally has a poor knowledge of SEN (despite claiming to champion disability) and more so for more recent developments like ASD and sensory issues than traditional physical disabilities.
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Canopus I take your point in respect to GCSE's. But I feel there are good and bad elements to them.
On the good side for me is that it negated an issue I faced myself at school. Even though 'O' levels were around my school only asked pupils to do CSE's my set being the first time exception. They were fed a line that a grade 1 CSE was the equivalent to an 'O' level grade C, in my experience very few in FE and HE took this fact on board. The GCSE allowed people full access in many schools which had previously been secondary moderns full access to a full range of grades.
You are right in what you say but the fault lay in CSEs more than O Levels. The change from CSE and O Level to GCSE has devalued the qualification in comparison to the O Level. An increasing number of independent schools are moving towards IGCSEs as they believe that employers and further education value them more than GCSEs.
In my opinion a better (but not perfect solution) would have been to abolish CSEs and replace them by a combined diploma in English language, maths, and science similar to CSE standard for the lower academic ability students. IT would later be included in the mix. This would then be supplemented by a small number of O Levels in subjects where the students had strengths such as history or foreign languages. Adding maths or English or science O Levels could be achieved later at college.
I personally agree that as an Aspie I enjoy the pressure of written exams I find them easy in comparison to my peers. What I would say however there are very few instances in my working life where I have had to be under this amount of pressure. I personally think timed coursework is the way to go for a lot of areas.I am a critic of exams especially at university level as they are highly unrelated to real world careers. At GCSE level an all examination system is not perfect but in my opinion is fairer than most other alternatives. The coursework centric system makes life difficult for those who wish to take exams outside of the system such as home educated kids, distance learning course users, expelled kids, and high ability kids who wish to take them before Y11. An all examination system is much easier for them.
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We are all educating our children all the time. Education does not stop at the school gate.
True, but how many parents are aware of the 1996 Education Act which states that they are responsible for their children's education? We now have a society where countless kids, mainly from lower class families in economically depressed areas, start school unable to carry out basic everyday tasks because their parents haven't bothered teaching them. That way schools are increasingly having to pick up the pieces of failed parenting.
The SEN community fares little better at times with countless parents expecting the state to provide an A1 education for their kids then more often than not fighting losing battles against the establishment. This is why I previously stated about going back to first principles then compiling lists of the services the state is to provide and the services where it is the parents responsibility to provide.
Chris you make a good point about the measurement of standards and Canopus you are right to describe the current cabinet as a group of Public School Toffs. I was never a fan of Margret Thatcher but you are perfectly right to highlight that she did a lot to break down the differences which were apparent in the examination system and unified academic achievement under one fair banner. Without doubt a lot of the political ideaology coming out from the current Conservative regime is a very regressive step backwards and highly the teachings of a shop keepers daughter.
I disagree. The all examination nature and the style of the questions in O Level exam papers is often better for kids with AS than the coursework based GCSE is. My education psychologist mentioned that I would do worse under the new style GCSEs than under the O Levels. There have been quite a bit of interest in IGCSEs by parents of kids with AS and they have been comparing exam paper questions with those from the GCSE.
GCSEs were designed to be a populist exam for the masses of NT kids.
As Canopus highlights in respect to one such structure CPVE's it is important that educationalists in partnership with employers organisations sit down and develop some stringent structures around such courses so that they represent value for both the participants and to the outside world who will use these qualifications as a means of judging value.The value of a qualification is the level in which employers and higher educational institutions value it. Course content comes second.
I have found out that an electronics A Level is not highly valued by industry or higher education despite its content being just as technical as a physics or chemistry A Level.
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Recently Michael Gove as education Secretary has said he is going to devalue such course and take away this level of filter so it is easier to compare schools on a level playingfield.
Given flexibility of approach i can see there are possibilites for a lot of kids to do well in academies. If they however are forced back into rigid NC structures then the semi-private sector will feel no compulsion to engage in SEN students unless they can prove to be of high academic standing.
There is some anecdotal evidence that the current crop of public school toffs in Parliament sees the academic grammar school system as the future model of mainstream education and they are quietly reversing the reforms of the Thatcher decade such as replacing all examination O Levels with coursework based GCSEs, separate science subjects with double science etc.
If this scenario does develop will it lead to a growth in free schools or will SEN kids be bussed around what remains of the LA's provision after everything else has been cherry picked from their grasp?It remains to be seen. Something I'm worried about is dustbinning SEN kids by lumping those with very different types of SEN in schools which provide a poor education just to clear them out of mainstream so it can get on with teaching kids who don't have problems. There is sufficient popular opinion from the Daily Mail readers to support such polices under journalist's titles of troubled, maladjusted, or disruptive. These were all terms that were used to describe my residential school that was officially EBD.
Personally I do not have a problem with pupils undertaking a course in animal care for example. As I have said previously if a yound person can set up a mobile dog and cat grooming service, something one member of this forum has done, then this is a massivly positive contribution to society as they are providing value for themselves by being self employed and at worst are neautral, employ one other person and this is a positive contribution, far better than being an unemployed graduate. If the origin for such a move was undertaking a specific related course at school rather than a GCSE in Design and Technology (my own subject so I am having a go at no one here), then that is fine by me.I absolutely agree with this but if attitudes are that academic standards are paramount then useful vocational courses become vulnerable. Those who can't handle O Level / A Level material will get shunted onto useless courses like the CPVE.
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I notice that with the new SEN changes Academies and Free schools are going to be added to the schools available. Surely these types of schools are run as a business. The're not going to want to take pupils knowing they will need expensive additional services from day one.
This has been discussed here before. SEN services for kids with AS are generally much cheaper than those for kids with physical disabilities so funding is less of an issue in theory. What is a more pressing concern is that academies and free schools will have a desire to protect their image and reputation so they will be reluctant to take kids deemed to be controversial, weirdos, or potential liabilities through their actions even if they are high calibre academically. The schools will tend to be run like families so kids will be expected to fit in and contribute to the spirit rather than being themselves with their own identities. This could actually work in our favour if we could get funding for free schools for kids with AS.
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I would certainly agree that what makes you successful is hard work and determination (and a bit of luck) rather than just being bright. At schools (even good ones) it never pays to be top of the class - and if you are bright enough to find school easy then you don't get into the habit of pushing yourself.
There may be truth to this but is it possible to be too clever in the real world? The problem with the mainstream school system is that it holds back high ability kids rather than lets them move ahead of the NC. I'm all for accelerated learning but many in the ASD community are not and the NAS doesn't advocate it.
No, education is much more than preparing children for work. It is about preparing them for life.And does the state school system prepare children for life?
One of the many reasons why parents home educate is to prepare them for the real world by educating them in the real world by mixing with people who work in the real world.
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I think the issues raised simply point to the question we need to decide as a nation what is the purpose of the education system in this country. I think the posts highlight that we have different perceptions on this important issue. In palying devils advocate I would say that the purpose of the 'state' education system in its modern form is to produce 'functional individuals' who were able to enter into a society and make a productive contribution. I think one of the issues is that these expectations are becoming somewhat dated.
This is a subject that will be debated until the end of time...
Due to technological advancement our society is a very different one to that of just twenty or thirty years ago. I think the reality is that today the 'vast majority' of people are unable to make a productive input into the system and in that I mean 'create' wealth. The pressure on the wealth creators has become enormous. There was a period where we were able to use the then level of wealth generation to support a layer of services which simply pushed that wealth around a bit. There might even have been something left over to support the individuals who could not enter this service sector of society.The reality is that wealth creation does not correlate with qualifications or NC knowledge. There are countless people out there who are well qualified and academically educated but earn lousy salaries. In contrast, a high proportion of 20 and 30 something entrepreneurs and self made millionaires do not have good qualifications and in some cases were school dropouts. It raises the question whether a traditional academic education is overrated and that in the 21st century it's the material outside of the NC that really leads to financial success, not GCSEs.
Personally I feel that the hidden truth within the system is that the majoriy will not reach societies desired standards. I want to make it clear as an ex teacher and examiner that standards are not falling rather they are increasing but they are not increasing at sufficient enough a pace to keep us competitive globally and that the productive workforce is a diminishing element as a whole.I think what is more important is whether Britain can compete financially with low wage economies. If a certain job can be outsourced to India and done by workers with a comparable level of education and skills to a British worker for just a quarter of the price then what chance does a British worker have? All this talk about improving education and skills is a red herring. The price differential overshadows the intellectual differential.
Some economists go as far as saying that the education system should be restructured around developing skills for the jobs which cannot be outsourced rather than trying to outsmart other countries. In other words, tell schools to abandon computers and return to woodwork classes because building work cannot be oursourced to India like IT work can.
The harsh reality is that a lot of the education system of the future will need to be about creating levels of 'self esteem' in young people so they are able to cope with living a life which is 'not productive' in its traditional definition. If we take on board this concept then the real differences between an average mainstream pupil and one with Special Needs are greatly reduced to become in many scenarios almost insignificant. What is the difference between a 17 year old SEN kid playing playstation all day and a 17 year old with 8 GCSE's doing the same when the prospects of employment for either are minimal?Gareth Lewis aptly summarises this in his article Youth Unemployment - No More Jobs for the Boys when he says "if there are no jobs for children when they leave school in five, ten, or fifteen years time, then there is absolutely no reason for sending them to school now".
If we do this we might find that SEN in fact works both ways and it might be more prudent for our society to focus SEN resources towards individuals who have talents and abilites way above average levels even though they may be very difficult to work with at times.You are not the first person to say this.
For the majority of people what they do at school and/or university should be seen as life enhancing and not the first step on a career ladder. For most it has no relevance to their final career path at all. Apart from basic Maths and English, what I learnt at school, academically, has made little impact on my ability to do these jobs.If this is true then it raises many questions about the entire nature of the state education system - or whether it should even be dismantled apart from primary school teaching basic maths and English. Is there really any point in spending millions of pounds on something for which there is little return on the investment economically when the internet can do the same job much cheaper?
What I always noticed was that those that did very well for themselves were not necessarily the smartest kids in the class/school. What was different about them was their attitude I suppose.
Intellectuals vs wheeler dealers?
So I think education has got to be about lifelong learning, and being able to find out information, and enjoying learning about things. Not just passing examinations.You may be right but if you want this style of education then you have to go to Summerhill or home educate. State schools and most independent schools just function like meat grinders where exam grades are the be all and end all. They don't care about what kids know or learn that is outside of the curriculum.
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Statements are not a 'bonus'. They are a legally binding document of SEN that the child needs to access education and make progress.
Read my comment again. You misinterpreted it.
That isn't so a child gets "more than" it needs. It is so a child get the level of provision needed for them to learn and make progress. Without that level of input, you might as well discharge the child from the educational system because the teachers and children are wasting their time if there is nothing productive that will come out of it. It would be the equivalent of making a blind child attend a mainstream school regardless of the fact that she cannot see and therefore cannot learn or demonstrate learning. Just filling up her days attending school until school leaving age. What is the point of that. School is not supposed to be a baby sitting service.There is always the big question of exactly what do parents want to get out of the school system. Can their demands be reasonably provided or not? As a general rule of thumb, the SEN services provided in mainstream schools are heavily biased towards whatever is required to learn the NC material because that is the official service that the school supplies. If large amounts of material outside of the NC, including real world life skills or vocational subjects, is required then this usually has to be provided in special schools or colleges. There are thousands of kids out there with educational needs that no existing school effectively supplies. I certainly fitted into this category and ended up attending an unsuitable SEN school that was probably worse than a mainstream school with no SEN services.
However many - if not most - parents of ASD children end up appealing the statement through tribunal and a high proportion of those who appeal are successful. That shows that in a high proportion of cases the LA is not even supplying that bare minimum "adequate" education for ASD children. That is a scandal - but these changes are not intended to address that
This is getting back to the basics again. Clear definitions of the SEN services that schools and LA must provide by default and those that are (almost) guaranteed under a Statement of SEN need to be drawn up if we are to ensure that they will be delivered. At the moment the vagueness and lack of clear definitions surrounding SEN makes the provision of SEN services highly vulnerable to financial cutbacks.
An example of a service that must be provided by default are teaching staff and LA SEN officials who are knowledgeable about ASD. It is of utmost importance that budgets for staff training and the provision of books about ASD to schools are ringfenced. Cutbacks in this area will result in a whole generation of staff who lack sufficient knowledge and understanding of ASD to be able to provide any meaningful services, and it will effectively turn the clock back to where we were 15 or so years ago.
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"IMO there is a lack of self reliance in the ASD community with a considerable proportion of parents holding the view that it's a God given right that schools and the LA provide everything on a gold plate for their kids"
I think that is totally unfounded. If you read the current SEN legislation and the current system it clearly says that a child is not entitled to the "best" education, just a satisfactory one. So there is no gold plated SEN provision being handed out. Provision is detailed in Statements when it has been proved by professionals as being needed for the child to access education.
Under the 1996 Education Act it is the parents who are responsible ensuring that children receive an education suitable to their age, ability and aptitude, and to any special educational needs they may have. State schools offer the NC and anything in addition to this apart from that obtained via a Statement of SEN is a bonus. A Statement of SEN is a tool to access a selection of services beyond that normally offered as part of the NC but it is not, and never has been, a magic wand to ensure that the very best education is provided to every student. As a consequence of this, it is the parent's responsibility to decide whether a state school education (including anything available under a Statement of SEN) is the best education or whether it is merely satisfactory in the government's opinion.
This could be viewed as a get out of jail card for schools or the LA but is it actually possible to provide the very best education for every student under a monolithic system? This is why smart parents, including those of NT kids with no disabilities or SEN, know that the very best education can only be achieved with a certain degree of input outside of the school system.
The profile of SEN is very different today than it was25 years ago when my partner started working in this sector.
That is true and the entire situation needs looking at from today's perspective also taking into account various developments that have taken place since the 1980s.
The problem is that our education system needs a complete overhall but this is not possible given current social attitudes, there is too much of a protectionist attitude out there. Recent political creep in empowering parents has added to this problem. In many ways I appalud this move on ethical grounds but in my heart feel that the social backdrop of the country is not ready to take on this level of responsibility rather we are stucK in a consumerist society where self interest rules, hardly a backdrop to create balanced and fair educational reform.I have discussed cutbacks to services for SEN and disability with my (Conservative) MP who replied that they are ideological just as much as they are financial. It is the opinion of the Conservatives that under NuLab society became excessively dependent upon the state and has lost much of its self reliance and willingness to solve its own problems and provide for the needy. He then cited a certain LA that was not heavily dependent on public services and how its own people had a get up and go attitude when it came to repairing infrastructure or providing facilities for kids without the council or the taxpayer being involved.
These difficult times mean that many people are having to work longer hours just to make ends meet. Voluntary groups are struggling due to a fall in numbers.
I also mentioned this with my MP and how cutbacks to benefits often end up translating as cutbacks to voluntary work. At least the John Major government had the decency and courtesy not to introduce JSA until after the worst of the last recession had cleared. This government is on the brink of bringing back the workhouse by forcing benefits claimants to have to work for no pay for wealthy multinational corporations like Poundland or Tesco whilst denying them the right to useful and beneficial voluntary work.
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I'm probably going to come across as a miserable ogre here...
What we need to do is look at this situation from first principles, then decide exactly what services for kids with ASD should be provided by schools and LAs, and which services are best provided outside of LAs - such as by ASD support groups, the internet etc.
There is currently a lot of ambiguity and lack of precision when it comes to LAs and schools providing SEN services which makes it a much easier target for cutbacks than if the details were more precise. At the moment it is very difficult to determine what the medium term outcomes of these SEN changes are or whether kids with ASD will lose out badly from them. IMO there is a lack of self reliance in the ASD community with a considerable proportion of parents holding the view that it's a God given right that schools and the LA provide everything on a gold plate for their kids. Now the game has changed and if we are to expect guaranteed services from schools and the LA then it is of utmost importance that we come up with clearer definitions of what they are.
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A more mature response would have been to ask Canopus for instances where he felt the moderators had acted in a heavy handed and reactionary manner and to then either yourself or through the people who made the decisions explain your thinking behind your decisions at the time. In that way we could all have drawn our own conclusions..
I could elaborate but do not feel that I have to.
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I second that. EBD might include ADHD, but mostly it's more very loud and aggressive children, who are "poisonous" for children on the spectrum. DON'T put him there.
Most of the EBD kids at my residential school were yobs and thugs from council estates who were clearly NT.
The odd thing is that the strategy is for EBD and HFA - sounds like an impossible mixture.
More like is an impossible picture. I have first hand experience.
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They agree that there is not really any appropriate placement for him within the borough but did mention a new school that is supposed to be up and running in September to cater for primary children with "Behavioural, Emotional and Social Difficulties" - including HFA, and said that M might be a suitable candidate for the school.
Does anyone know what sort of provision the school is likely to make and whether it is likely to be appropriate for a gifted ASD child?
I soon as I read this the alarm bells sounded very loud. Emotional and Behavioural Difficulties (EBD) is NOT the same thing as ASD. They are completely different as EBD kids are NT.
Superficially M does have behavioural problems - it is there on the (draft) statement - however what is clear - and also stated explicitly in the diagnosis. is that these are symptoms of the ASD. I am not convinced that the approach required for an ASD child is the same as that for one whose emotional/behavioural problems. There are specific and clearly identified issues with his thought processes that need to be addressed - strategies that focus on the behaviour rather than the thought patterns are bound to fail.Correct. I attended an EBD residential school during the early 1990s and it was a very unpleasant experience. The school was unsuitable for my needs and did not provide the help and support I needed although the academic standards were quite high. Many problems resulting from ASD were put down as laziness or low standards. The philosophy of the school was not to teach social and life skills as they would develop naturally (they don't in ASD kids) with time in a disciplined environment. Read some of my old posts from 2005 to 2007 for more info about the school.
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My lad is 18 and just starting to express an interest in driving one day. He admits that he doesn't think he's ready yet, but in a year or two maybe. For my part, I really can't see him coping. He has never mastered riding a bike and even if he did now, I couldn't see him coping on the road, as his road sense is not good at all. Maybe in a couple of years he'll be more aware, but at the moment I couldn't imagine that he'd be able to maintain concentration long enough to drive safely, nor would he cope with taking in everything around him that other drivers are doing all at the same time and being aware of what their intentions are as well as mastering the actual physical part of controlling the car. I just can't see it at all.
~ Mel ~
An alternative to a car is a drivable lawnmower or similar category K vehicle. These can legally be driven solo on a provisional licence providing L plates are attached. I'm not sure whether removing the blades from a lawnmower will move it into a category B1 vehicle.
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I think all too often we have low expectations on our teenage section of society
I absolutely agree with this one as adults are often unaware of the achievements of teenagers in all sorts of areas. The problem stems from the negative image of teenagers painted by the mainstream media and the segregated society where it is difficult for adults to interact with teenagers to find out what they really do.
and for a lot of the time in adult company these individuals often live up to these expectations of adults simply to avoid hassle. Behind the gaze from adults there is often a very different story being enacted out in their everyday lives.This ability to change personality in order to fit in with ones associates at a particular time is an NT trait. I noticed it with one of my NT brothers how his personality and the way he behaved with his family was completely different from the way he behaved with his mates - and he was able to switch between the two personalities almost instantly. People with AS do not have this flexibility and therefore show similar personalities in all environments with all people. It can however be a disadvantage.
When it comes to AS and teenagers with the condition I suspect that there is a very split picture because of the reasons you have given Canopus. I suspect that there is one section where parents are very open about many issues and as such the individuals are well informed and can make appropriate decisions in their own lives. I think there must also be a section where adults are not comfortable about a large number of areas and as such the easy response is to think i will deal with this should it ever arrise. In such a scenario it is unlikely that peer information will fill the void even if some of their concepts might be slightly misplaced at times. It is the AS kids in this second group which i really worry about.My findings are that parents roughly fit into two camps. The first camp accepts the AS teenager as who they are; accepts that they cannot function like a conventional NT teenager for most of the time; offers them the support and advice to succeed with real world issues; and sees adult social skills as more important than teenage social skills. This camp also tends to believe that families and local AS groups should bear the bulk of the responsibility for providing services and support. The second camp just wants a 'low maintenance' teenager who makes friends easily at school and relates well with their peer group, but is often unwilling to offer support and advice on real world issues and is obsessed with trying to get the teenage social skills right. This camp also tends to believe that the government and the education system should bear the bulk of the responsibility for providing services and support.
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A big issue for teenagers in my experience is that they are much happier in controled cultures which they often prefare to be age specific.
Interesting that you mention this. Decades of mass education that separates teenagers from adults (other than their teachers) and the workings of the real world for much of their time have created an artificial parallel society and a youth subculture. In centuries gone by (and in tribal areas today) this youth subculture did not exist as children moved directly into adulthood without having to go through this 'teenage' period with its own culture and social norms. By the age of 12 most children were working alongside adults in the real world, so they had to understand the real world and take on board adult social skills. Youth subculture did not exist anywhere near the level that it exists today.
Many teenagers (including my parents) enjoy this youth subculture and much prefer to be with their own mates doing things that other teenagers do rather than mixing with adults and learning about or participating in the real world. The situation is notably different for a high proportion of teenagers with AS who have difficulty relating to their peer groups at school; difficulty in understanding teenage social skills and communication; and little interest in teenage popular culture. They often prefer the company of adults as they find them more predictable and interesting people to be with than other teenagers. Their interests overwhelmingly lie in the real world rather than in what they often see as shallow and silly teenage popular culture.
This situation often causes problems for teenagers with AS and their parents have a nasty desire to compare their children's lives with the lives of NT classmates who fit in well with their peers, or even their own lives as teenagers. They overwhelmingly high proportion of them want their children to fit into youth subculture without any problems rather than question how recent and artificial such an environment is and that some simply can't fit into it so it would be better to focus on living in the real world instead.
If there is a potential problem in this attitude is that at times it can exclude slightly more mature thinking in a number of areas.This is called the blind leading the blind. It is well known within the HE community which holds a distrust of youth subculture and believes that youngsters should be more integrated into the real world rather than caged up in artificial environments with people of their own age group. I happen to know of quite a few teenagers who are aware of this and how it's difficult to get good advice on real world matters from their peer group so instead have to turn to adults. The best teachers are those who have walked the path in which you wish to travel on.
If someone is to provide a one stop shop for these experiences I guess it should be a national charity or government. We then get into a professional vetting procedure and guidelines around adults, the disadvantage of this is it often excludes individuals with real life experiences on which to draw, rather it is structured by adults, for adults and when the kids get into the mix the things often do not feel right to them and so they don't engage in the thing. Adults then pressume that there is no real need for a service and blame the kids for not being more active.Like the NAS. Run by NT parents for AS kids who go to mainstream schools whilst making it difficult for adults with AS to share their real life experiences and offer advice. The biggest problem with the NAS is not that it doesn't provide enough support for adults with AS, it is that it doesn't effectively let adults contribute to the organisation.
My gut reation is if a group of teenagers or children came to the forum asking for a space on it then, whoever has a role in making such a decision should ask them how do you want it, my guess would be they would get it 95% right and an odd tweek here and there might simply make the thing tick over effectivly, I suspect that tweak might be one or two well respected adults from the forum who wanted to help. I do not necessarily think the answer is in adults here setting something up and then see if there is a demand, we would probably get the structure and tone of the thing wrong. All good projects need ownership and so the energy needs to come from the end users.My experience as a long term user of this forum is that the moderators have acted in a heavy handed and reactionary manner too often. Several active users have left this forum over the years and I'm in contact with some of them.
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What, even in London?
I don't have specific details of where the houses are, how much they cost, and how many people bought them. I do know for sure of two self employed people in their 20s who own houses valued at £60-70k outright. One is NT and was HE from the outset. The other has AS and was HE since Y7 but attended college for 2 years between 16 and 18.
Would you send your AS kids to a secondary school that didn't teach the NC?
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Both. What an effective modern education isn't about is filling up brains with stuff that may or may not be useful on a just in case basis. Neither is it about teaching to the test with the primary objective of gaining pieces of paper. The NC does both very effectively.
I'm of the opinion that free schools will be run according to the whims of parents, in a similar way that primary schools were run according to the whims of the head teachers and governors prior to the NC, without any regard to what the real world wants from school leavers. I'm also of the opinion that governments both in Britain and abroad are patently incapable of drawing up quality curricula beyond KS2.
I have thought about that one but kids with AS have special requirements that are rarely applicable to NT kids. For a start, most NT kids are capable of learning certain social skills and etiquette as they go along but most kids with AS can only learn them if they are taught about them. Such lessons in social skills will be almost essential for kids with AS if they are to function successfully in life as an adult but are unnecessary for most NT kids.
Factoring out the social skills specific to AS then what is left is something that approaches a better universal curriculum. Suggestions and ideas that have been submitted include:
1. To offer English language and maths GCSE / IGCSE.
2. Some computer qualifications but not necessarily the ICT GCSE.
3. A selection of other GCSEs or IGCSEs depending on the interests and abilities of the kids. Most of these will be optional subjects and may include those not offered by state schools.
4. A course about cars including legal matters, the highway code, and basic maintenance.
5. The job market. Methods of how to successfully find employment. CV writing and interview skills. The secrets of tapping into the hidden job market.
6. The legal system and prominent laws. How to fire a lawsuit against someone and what to do when someone fires a lawsuit against you.
7. The workings of the government and civil service departments. What they are responsible for. How the election system works.
8. Property. How to buy a house. Various legal aspects associated with buying and renting.
9. Film and video production.
10. Medical matters including alternative medicine.
11. Business.
12. DIY and building work.
Measured by who exactly? The government measures the performance of state school and kids by the number of A*-C grade GCSEs. If school decides on alternative qualifications then it will score badly by Ofsted as a result of it being non-standard rather than it being poor. An extreme example of this is if kids moved directly into A Levels and every one of them got at least 3 A grades at 16 but nobody got any GCSEs then the school would score zero by Ofsted despite every man on the street knowing that the kids are amongst the highest academic ability. GCSEs are a very narrow measurement as they give virtually no indication of life skills, social ability, or whether one was respected at school or bullied badly.
Employers use different yardsticks to the government and look beyond GCSE grades.
There is a whole raft of qualifications out there and many of them are high quality and respected by employers and further education. Some kids with AS would achieve more under a coursework based system but others are very good at exams.
The plan is that there will be considerable input from industry into the curriculum of the school.
There are an increasing number of young teenagers who run their own businesses.