Canopus
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Posts posted by Canopus
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One of the most frustrating problems I find with the NAS is that whenever I raise the issue of support and services for people on the higher functioning end of the spectrum I find myself up against the parents of a person with severe traditional autism who dictate (for the want of a better description) that their family's needs are greater.
I have previously stated that the primary interests of the NAS are residential care services or their own schools.
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Do lots of kids with AS have a liking for sugar loaded unhealthy breakfast cereals?
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Would you be interested in a combined English, maths, and science diploma based around KS2 knowledge with similar questions to the SATS tests as a qualification and replacement for GCSEs? Will such a qualification be of benefit for kids with ASD or will it disenfranchise the clever kids?
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Not a lot according to a couple of discussions over on the NAS discussion forum
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They definitely exist. Two Indian brothers diagnosed with high functioning AS joined a support group I'm involved with earlier this year. In a discussion the question was raised as to whether AS goes undiagnosed in people of Indian subcontinent origin due to cultural factors or social expectations. Would Indian kids with high functioning AS be viewed differently if they attended a school that was mostly white British than if they attended a school that was mostly Indian? Does anybody have any figures for diagnosis of AS in areas with a high proportion of Indians such as Ealing, Harrow, and Leicester?
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I would suspect that there are people of all races with varying form of AS - I just think the majority of study has been in Europe as you say.
Research into AS could be lacking in India or seen as a low priority issue (can anybody confirm this?) but there are plenty of people of Indian origin in Europe, the US, and Canada where the majority of studies currently take place.
If every parent of somebody with AS of European origin told me that "AS affects all races equally" whilst having never met somebody with AS who isn't of European origin gave me £1 then I would be very rich!
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Has there been any research or materials produced about Indians with high functioning AS? Almost all research and case studies of people with AS in Britain and the US are devoted to subjects of European origin.
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I'm dubious of Winston Churchill having AS. Take into account that he was born into a wealthy and privileged family so that could have determined much of his personality. Despite being a WWII hero, many historians consider him to have been a mediocre peacetime politician, with election results further confirming this, and by today's standards he could be called a spiv on account of his economic policies and contempt for the less well off.
If there is one famous politician who I think had AS it was John Enoch Powell. You might not agree with everything he believed in (neither do I) or find some of his views repugnant but I consider him to be a very misunderstood person who was vilified by the media. He knew 12 languages including Latin, Greek, Welsh, Hindi, and Urdu, and even held discussions with his constituents in some of them.
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But in this day-and-age why would anyone with ASD of school age not get a diagnosis? Once you have the diagnosis then the equality act takes care of the rest - the school must make reasonable adjustments
There are several good reasons why. It's a label attached to an individual for life which could cause complications in adulthood such as higher car insurance or exclusion from certain careers such as the armed forces.
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I already know this one but from experience this more often than not requires an official diagnosis of ASD and in some cases a statement of SEN which LAs are reluctant to give out nowadays. Therefore anybody without an official diagnosis might have to endure years of misery in PE lessons.bed32, on 15 Oct 2013 - 10:03 PM, said:
Children with special needs can be exempted from any part of the National Curriculum.
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On the whole I agree with including competitive sports in schools, and the fact that it disadvantages a certain part of the school population is not necessarily a reason to exclude it. What matters is how the school deals with AS children - but there inclusion is the best policy
I'm not quite sure how these curriculum reforms tally up with inclusion policies because when they were written conditions like ASD and dyspraxia were not taken into account. PE teachers basically have to follow the curriculum which means that a teacher who tries to be inclusive could find themselves breaking the law. Part of the problem lies with mixed ability classes. If PE classes were segregated by ability then it would be easier to 'bend' the curriculum to be inclusive.
A PE curriculum that allows a reasonable degree of choice would help - so AS children can select appropriate activity
The whole purpose of the curriculum reforms was to close this degree of choice because too many schools / children were not selecting competitive team sports.
Are there any activities that you think should be included in the PE curriculum?
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There doesn't appear to have been any discussion here about Michael Gove's new curriculum reforms resulting in school PE lessons having a heavier emphasis on competitive teams sports than those under the previous government. There is a discussion taking place on the NAS forum.
It doesn't look like the NAS was consulted or involved themselves in consultations. What do you think of this? I'm inclined to say that it's going to be misery for kids with AS.
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The subjects I found easiest at school were the sciences. The only coursework they had were assessed practicals which involved carrying out an experiment and writing a summary and conclusion for it in the space of one lesson. The subject I found hardest was English because it was all coursework with no exam. The lack of a structure and a target combined with a less than helpful teacher meant that I floundered around and got nowhere for all of Y10. Geography had a large coursework component but I was given a lot of help and support with it. Looking at good examples of previous assignments was very useful in determining a standard and a target to aim for.
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I think the GCSE approach they do today is probably easier for AS children than the old O Levels - the emphasis on course work and continuous assessment must be easier for most than having everything depending on a couple of exams at the end of the course - even the most able of AS children must find that very stressful. However that is changing again now and by the time my son gets to that age they will be more exam-orientated again.
I have mentioned before that my education psychologist said that I would do worse under the new style GCSEs with coursework than under the O Levels. I have also come across many other kids with AS who have strengths in the exam side of GCSE and struggle with the coursework. The exam has a structure and a target which can help in identifying what is required to obtain full marks but the unstructured nature of the coursework combined with a requirement for organisational and presentation skills can throw certain students and cause them to flounder and therefore fail to achieve full marks unless they are given much support.
Rather interestingly, I struggled with exams at university which are very different from GCSE and A Level exams.
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But from my experience of families with children with aspergers who are mainstream, the majority of them tend to fall out of school when it gets to year 9 onwards. That could be to do with the 'student led' learning and approaching examinations.
Would they have done better under the O Level system?
The NAS is not interested in any research into whether IGCSE or O Levels are more suited to kids with AS than GCSEs are. I have asked them. They are all for integration.
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To the best of my knowledge AS was not taken into account when formulating and devising the National Curriculum, Curriculum for Excellence or the Northern Ireland Curriculum. It is added in as an afterthought. All three curricula have generated an entire textbook industry and state schools have to use these books.
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Do you think that too much emphasis is / was placed on trying to integrate kids with AS into the mainstream school curriculum and style of learning rather than in researching and developing a curriculum and style of learning that is better matched to the way their brains are wired? If so then do you think this is a good thing or should more research and development be carried out into creating a curriculum better matched to the AS brain?
I'm of the opinion that NC teaching materials and the GCSE exam have a populist bias intended for a neurotypical mindset that hinders many kids with AS. This all originates from initiatives in the 1980s to improve standards amongst the neurotypical and less intellectual masses who struggled with the basics. Very little research appears to have been carried out into whether kids with AS prefer and succeed better under alternative or foreign curricula and styles of learning rather than the NC.
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I think you're absolutely right that a lot of NT children gain a lot socially from being at school. Unfortunately, for our AS children the exact opposite is often the case. All my son learned socially from being at school was that he was 'weird', that he didn't fit in and that nobody wanted to be his friend. He went through six years of isolation and rejection and it permanently scarred him, I believe.
This comment on Wrongplanet sums it up.
Popular kids have the ability to learn social norms by observing others and then mimicking them. Unpopular kids lack either the ability,the desire, or the awareness of this process.
When four-five year old kids enter a classroom they look to see where the other kids are, and what they are doing. Once they figure out what the expected kid-behavior is, they then join in. When my son enters the room, he doesn't notice the other kids, but instead heads toward whatever catches his interest (machinery, paint, marbles, etc.) He isn't paying attention to the conventions, rules, or cues. He only joins in when made to, and then still doesn't pay attention to or copy the behavior of others. It doesn't even occur to him.
But the popular-kids-to-be are paying attention to each other. They size each other up, copy mannerisms and speech, and make each other the primary object of study. It's, I assume, what is meant when people say kids need to be in public school to learn social skills. But the problem is that the unpopular kids aren't learning these skills: they don't even realize they exist
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt228143.html
That is also why I have fought hard for him to get some overnight residential. He needs to be with other kids. He needs to learn to be independent, but also how to go along with the group too.
In my residential school the out of teaching hours time was regularly used by bullies to take revenge on kids for events that happened during the day.
If you look at the results for most AS specific schools their GCSE results seem very poor - for most of them it is unusual for a pupil to get 5 GCSEs (but I don't know if the results tables might under-report results)
Only a handful of schools actually regularly get good grades.
A lot of schools will point out how much trouble ASD children have with exams, but the fact that some schools to achieve better results must mean either they have different selection criteria, or they manage them better, or both.
I dispute some of this because kids with AS are known to get good grades in mainstream or as external candidates. I think the problem is more with coursework rather than exams.
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I attended a SEN residential school for EBD which offered a diverse selection of GCSEs to higher level in academic subjects including separate sciences. It did not offer any of the so called 'soft' subjects.
As a bare minimum I would say that a school for high ability kids would offer GCSEs in maths, English language, double science, ICT, and two other academic subjects to higher level at the end of Y11, and that's not counting more specialised subjects and courses, A Levels, or allowing students to take exams early. Can a SEN school for AS offer this?
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Most AS specialist schools cater for children of "broadly average ability" - which tends to mean being at average or below cognative levels but not so low as to be technically sub-normal.
Is there a reason for this? Are AS schools designed to try to be everything to everybody? Is there an insufficient number of high ability kids with AS to establish schools specifically for them? Is it an issue of funding or unfavourable terms and conditions from the government?
I have heard estimates that about 5% of ASD children have the potential to go to University - but finding an education for them that allows them to achieve that potential is very difficult.
I assume that this figure you quoted covers the entire spectrum and not just the high ability kids who are let down by the system or have their potentials jeopardised by the lack of facilities for them.
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But I don't see that environment in AS specialist schools either. I see curriculums top heavy with cooking, arts, photography and D&T. I see low GCSE results with the occasional child achieving several passes.
I don't think mainstream is right.
But I have not seen an Indy SS that looks right either within our area. SpLD schools all reject him as too complex, AS schools seem to cover a culture of low academic expectation with art and life skills. I can't possibly understand how some of them get away with charging 60k for that.
My son has already rejected mainstream so I will have to create my own package. I can't see him getting anything particularly beneficial from school.
Is there much demand for specialist AS schools for kids with high abilities in maths, science, or ICT?
Over the years many parents of high ability kids with AS have said that they want to see high functioning AS separated from autism. The reason is that it will be easier to provide services that meets the specific needs and requirements of high ability kids with AS. Currently a high proportion of resources for autism are channeled towards people on the lower functioning end of the spectrum.
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no investors = low house prices. Funny, that.
I was referring to investment in business. There's already more than enough investment in property in Stoke - mostly by southerners with plenty of spare cash.
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Companies in London and the south are better placed to get investment than companies elsewhere in Britain. Not too long ago I was talking to a businessman who was forced to relocate from Stoke on Trent to the south because of difficulty in finding anybody who would invest in his company. Once he moved the company south investors were more willing to hand over the cash. Interestingly Stoke on Trent was considered as a location for the proposed embedded systems company because of its good geographical location and low house prices.
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I'm based in the south of England. London was examined but later rejected because of sky high house prices and there are not that many people who work in low level software or embedded systems outside of universities. The IT industry in London is very heavily biased towards business computing and financial services. London would be a first rate area for any company that operates in these sectors. The choice was between areas where there already are embedded systems industries or areas with cheap housing. In the latter case obtaining investment will be harder which is why economically depressed areas exist.
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I'm not denying this although nowhere do I generalise about AS anywhere near as much as most NAS branch officers do as I'm the one who often ends up pointing out the differences and diversity - like not all kids are good at maths or stim in particular ways.
AS is at the moment only a superficially researched topic and it can be difficult to identify what are myths and misconceptions.