pingu

Hi all. I dont know how it's sounding today on trax but we only got featured up till 11am on minster. At first when the story went out yesterday i admit the true point got lost.... but after the doors i've banged on today i believe the true message will be filtering it's way through someones crowded schedules by now surely, As parents we are tiny fish compared to those sharks, but the true message which we need to hit the headlines is this "How safe are our childrens schools?" Steve has been diagnosed with PSTD by his doctor this morning, cookers knackered, fridge is knackered, steve and i are knackered. kids are great, well hyper. But one good thing keeps my spirit alive today and thats the support we are getting over this. Even the primary school which our other two attend have told us they are behind us. hmmmm. Watch this space love to all shaz n steve

Thanks madmumof5. How did it get there?? i thought it was just local. oh well - the more the merrier. at the end of the day the more awareness the better. thanks to everyone (once again) for replies and support. shaz & steve

Thanks for that link to no 10. <'> Update..... the full story will be on minster fm at 6pm. At least i hope its the full story. !! Shaz x

Hi guys. http://www.minsterfm.com/news/ The story is on here every hour, from twelve pm they have been building the picture, apparently around 4 or 5pm this afternoon they should have the finished article to air. but the bits that have been on this afternoon have been fair to us. ************************************************* The poo has hit the fan, rightly or wrongly we have made a stand against the school. As we thought, they have come back with a statement full of lies. According to the head, steve was not a father showing concern for very obvious reasons - he was a mere intruder who was 'weilding' a knife on school premisis. - (even though the caretaker let him in, the secetary took his full name and the headmaster shook hands with him after admitting he messed up) Bull <insert appropriate word here> I have phoned the school and told them to cancell the meeting tomorow, we cannot work with liars. I cant see a way forward here, i just hope the police are going to back us up by releasing the head teachers statement, which clearly said......... "He was not threatening once" Moreso now i know ive done the right thing, because its a complete cover up - no one wants to take responsibility for this - for the fact it happened. for the fact it was allowed to happen Its ok for them to breeze over all this as though it doesnt matter. but i will NEVER forgive them people for dumping this ###### on my doorstep four weeks before christmas. I want them to say they were wrong, they said it to steve's face on friday, and told me over the phone that it was there fault - now they are covering it up. Im ashamed to be a Human..................BLEEEEEEEEEPPPPPPPPPPPP. They could have stopped the arrest at the very least - they could have stopped the pain that alone has caused. But infuriatingly enough - IT IS ABOUT SECURITY............ And they cant even accept that !!!!!! what a plonker. thanks for your continued support, i realise what we have done, is maybe not what you would have done, and some of you may even think we are over reacting - but god believe me when i say - They just dont understand the work they have undone with one bad decicion. We always tell the kids to tell the truth ....... cant type any more.. going for a drink

Flora ..... <'> dont be sorry please.. <'> whatever we call it your post really did help. it really did. and through my answering your post we have managed to grab some strength for the fight ahead. I wanted to justify myself because its the truth and its the truth i want to share with everyone.... <'> This weekend has been one of the hardest of my life, but its taught me one thing.... and that is you have to fight for what you know is right.... no more laying down and been walked over...... we've had enough. The kids are in the middle of all this, and that is whats important. the school were bang out of order for what they did, moreso for the resons i believe they did it. but at the end of the day, we have kicked off about the whole security thing. its a dangerous practice to have when no guidelines are put into place. It seems ironic that they have to live through this hell, just to get some normality. Take care. and no offence what-so-ever taken <'> shaz x Ps. Steve insists that throughout all this his overall aim was to be security concious........ how it all went soooooo wrong..... and he says..... "its all been an 'incompitent fcuk up of volcanic magnitude' on the school's part." He also asks the question.... "Just how safe is your child's school?" PPs. i couldnt find an alternative word for the expletive. im sorry before you tell me off. i cant help my emotions at the moment,

mrs phasmid Thank you very very much for this information. and thankyou for comming back to give your views. you dont realise how much that means. i have printed it out. <'> shaz x

Thanks for all your replies. hi Cat. We've just spoke to the solicitor. she is great. and luckily the reporter whoo is dealing with the story has done a story for us before when my son died so is sympathetic to our curcumstances. Thank you so much for your advice.... I really hope we dont Balls this up....... Hi Flora Thanks for your post for so many reasons, ill try to explain..... (But i am on your wavelength) The whole reson for doing what we are doing is to expose a bigger picture? its that bigger picture which through flora I will try to explain a little of. I've been thinking about this quite a lot and I'm really not sure if you should send that letter yet. I sort of already have... but it's ok because i still think for all the reasons i have, it is the right move, maybe not done in the right way, but either way i think i can justify the media at this stage... ill try to explain as i go on..... Here is where it all starts - and i thank flora for this post as she has given me something which i can use to explain just what?s happened here and why. Ill be honest with you all we have flipped our lids, and its been a long time coming. The decisions we have taken, and the way we have handled this situation so far has been the result of years and years of not been listened too, of having to fight for every single solitary thing, from freedom to our children, I joined this site in 2004 and things were so different back then, I was confused as to what was happening to my family and you brilliant people guided me through the initial shock, and you have carried on carrying me and my family ever since.. Over the years I?ve started to understand a lot more... Friday was like the final piece in the jigsaw if you like.... we finally realized that education was ruining our children, because they keep getting it so, so so, wrong. It has caused so many problems in our fragile little family, and its all those problems and the problems they cause that is the problem... if you're still with me. I'd never heard of Asperger?s syndrome and didn?t have a clue of what laid ahead.. but now autism, has been joined by adhd, ocd, dyspraxia, dyslexia, depression in fact all three of my children all have problems ,right across the scale in everything, or so it seems. That causes problems, which creates problems, which is the bigger picture??.. Its years of stigma, misunderstanding, and fighting the many systems which have done this to us Friday happened because of all that, I hope you're still following me?? I think you should approach it differently. You could first of all ring up and speak with, or meet with, the HT to try and get some perspective on it from both sides I spoke on Friday with the deputy teacher, I got the impression that the head didn?t want to speak to me, the deputy gave me the events from there side, I have since had the events from Steve?s side. I have listened to both sides, and think at this point ? I?m still justified Because their actions were still unjustified. Could it be possible that the receptionist misread your husbands body language and was genuinely under the misconception that he meant some harm? Well no not really, because she and the head teacher told the police that Steve?s behavior was not threatening or aggressive at all.. In interview the receptionist said she felt ?a little intimidated? by his words - I suspect that this was at the point Steve told her he was sick of been fobbed off with ?there is no one to speak with you now ? if you?d like to make an appointment?. What she saw was a man who was frustrated at hitting his head on the same brick wall every time something needs discussing, what they don?t tell you is the appointment you need to make never materializes, because after all we have been trying to get an appointment with the relevant people for over a year as it is to discuss Liam?s problems in the school. It may well be that she saw the knife and went into mental overdrive and stopped listening to his words, IYKWIM. Yes he showed her the knife, but again this was done in a non threatening manner. He put it in the palm of his hand and said the following ?this is what it?s about, it?s yours not mine. It should never have been allowed to end up in my family home ? I wish to speak to the head as regards your health and safety policy? Importantly at this point. If their guidelines were followed, then Steve wouldn?t have even reached the reception desk ?. They are not supposed to admit people through an intercom, firstly checking the person and their reasons for been there. In which case they could have refused Steve access ? thus if this were a real emergency that would save lives? Even if that was the case, they obviously still handled it very badly and you and Steve are right to say that they should have handled it differently; the safety of the children was obviously not at the top of their list in how they dealt with it, The fact that the children?s safety wasn?t even on there list of priorities is the reason we are so wound up. Our child with all his problems has to feel secure at home and at school, and he?s been telling us for months about the insecurities which feed his fears as he walks around the school with ?normality? all around him. but it may have been the trigger as I can't understand why they would call armed police unless they were misreading the whole situation and thought they were in danger and I'm convinced this will turn out to be the case. Now here is where I think I?m still justified, because the ?victims? involved have already said they didn?t feel threatened. So it leaves me wondering if they just took offence at the truth. Which is as Steve put it ?nothing more than incompetence? I think a calm discussion, giving everyone the opportunity to give their perspective, should be the first thing that happens We are supposed to be doing this on Tuesday, but emotionally I don?t think Steve is ready for it. If this fails, or they are not willing to discuss it, then of course you take it the next step. I don't know who the right people are to deal with this but victim support would be my first port of call and they should be able to point you in the right direction, or the police themselves may well be able to tell you who to go to with this Thanks, at least we have that to consider, I didn?t think of that. I know it's not a great consolation, but it may well be that you find through calm discussion that this was merely a stupid error of judgment on behalf of the school, and while their safety policies obviously need an overhaul, they have proved that they don't waste any time in calling on help if they perceive (rightly or wrongly) any danger yes but again behind the scenes the school and the staff knew, and accepted that steve was not a threat ? they could have stopped him been arrested at any point? it comes back to the truth?..they also failed to instigate any help when it was needed a few weeks ago when a member of their cleaning staff was attacked by two pupils in the corridor. So you are not wrong. They need to look seriously at the security issues, which they wont do unless pushed. Also, bear in mind that part of their safety policy will be not to challenge or tackle anyone if they think they are a threat, although leaving the person with open access to the school was clearly another error of judgment Its about the only part of the safety policy they adhered to then wasn?t it? maybe they thought the kids would deal with it for them??.. Was your CC sympathetic when you spoke to her? She should be able to help you further No she was the opposite in fact, as much help as a chocolate fireguard?. Maybe if she?d had a gun held to her head - like Steve, she might think differently. I do though think she was right to advise you not to go public at this point. I don't know why, but I just feel it will make you all feel worse at this stage. I?d like to say I would consider waiting but I emailed most of it off around 4am this morning. In haste maybe?? but even so I still think I?m justified. I think your husband should go to the GP and seek some support there which will also give you the added benefit if you do decide to take this further you can prove without a doubt the damage this has done to your husband's well being. He is hopefully seeing his GP tomorrow. After the NHS walk in centre couldn?t help him. He had facet joint injections 2 weeks ago for a long term spinal problem, ? through the overreactions of the school Steve was put in a police van, handcuffed and driven around for an hour before been taken to the police station. The school could have stopped this (at least) at any time. Really feel for you all, hope you don't mind me sticking my opinion in like this. sorry it's so garbled, but I know from my own experience that anger can blur your thinking and I thought it might help to give a different and considered perspective. I don?t mind you having your opinion at all flora ? in fact I thank you for your opinion. To see things from your perspective was very helpful and it enabled me to get things into perspective, yet after all that I can see no reason why our lives needed to be turned upside down. It also made me realize that what we are doing is still justified, because whichever way you look at it. We?re right and they?re wrong. Lol. We?ve been better thanks. we are just sick of sweeping all the problems under the carpet. This ?story? is much bigger and goes much deeper than I could even begin to describe here, I guess that?s what drives Steve to write his songs, because Its certainly what drives me into writing the book I started four months ago. Whoever or whatever is responsible for creation, has slung every ###### thing at us, its brought us all together - forced us all to live together, and now expects us to get on with what others call ?life? in a society we call ?the world? ?My world? Is the name of the book ? how ironic eh. Knowing we have the support of you lot really helps. And Id like to thank you all for your understanding. Past, - present and hopefully into the future. Sorry its been long, theres a lot on my mind. shaz P.S....... Ms Phasmid. I have just noticed your post, i will go and take a good look, i didnt realise you had posted. i must have been writing this reply for an eternity.

Hi Flora im writing a reply. please bear with me shaz

Thanks pearl, i have just been infutiated by a telephone call with my local counceller. she told me i would put my family in jepordy if i went to the media...... too late for that now its done. I will get a copy to the police, but we have no problem with them .......its the school i want...... This is turning into a nightmare.... Steve is having flashbacks and panic attacks, ive never seen him like this before, he's said that he has broad shoulders but this has rocked even him. He's had a ###### life for thirty years, he met me, we've fought the ###### together for ten years, and we are still limping along in the rat race we call society.... but for how much longer???

sorry Bd. to be honest i never even gave it a thought, my heads in a mess please accept my apologies.

Hi everyone. this is the letter ive typed up on behalf of steve. Im sending it to..... 1) the headteacher 2) educational psychologist 3) ofsted 4) LEA 5) family phychologist 6) local papers 7) local radio 8) board of governers Is there anyone else who needs to see what a pathetic shambles the school is???????????????? here it is. please let me know what you think... thanks Dear Mr ****** I was arrested by armed police on Friday 30th November 2007 at your school following an incident involving a Stanley knife belonging to your art department. My son, had accidentally packed the knife away along with his pencils during an art lesson, and feared he would be reprimanded should he take it back and admit his mistake. I offered to take the knife back (as any responsible parent would do) on my way to the doctors to pick up my morphine prescription. . Upon arriving at the school the door was held open for me by the caretaker and I made my way freely to the reception area without question. I spoke to the receptionist, who at no time appeared distressed. I told her the reason I was there and showed her the knife in a non threatening manner. I asked to speak to yourself regarding how this knife was not missed by Mrs. James at the very least. Initially the receptionist dithered about with excuses that my enquiry could not be dealt with. I had already explained the seriousness of the matter in plain english, yet the receptionist was either unwilling or unable to deal with this situation professionally. She asked me to wait outside a hall full of children, in a corridor full of children for approximately ten to fifteen minutes. When you arrived to speak with me for a brief five minutes, you admitted the incompetence on behalf of the school, the fact that you didn?t have a clue as to the whereabouts of its dangerous equipment, you also admitted responsibly for the situation in view of the fact my son should never have been in a position to walk out of school with the knife in his bag. Procedures should have been in place and this equipment should have been accounted for, at the very least by the art teacher. But it seems that procedures were not in place and have not been in place since **** opened its doors in September. You also couldn?t tell me if any more knifes were missing, which as a parent I found very worrying. . I aired my concerns to you about the security issues around such an incident and how, under different circumstances the situation could have been dangerous. I was willing to leave it there, I had already explained that I didn?t want to make a fuss; I just wanted to make you aware of a serious security issue within your school. By that I meant my son bringing the knife from school into our family home without your staff been aware of its dissaperance. Thinking the matter was resolved with a gentleman?s handshake, and a promise to review the schools security policy I left the building feeling assured and satisfied that I had done the right thing and the guidelines which should have been in place, may well now be enforced. Whilst still in the school grounds, I was just about to phone my wife who was at home with pneumonia, when two armed police officers arrested me for my actions. I explained to them that the knife had been returned safely to it?s incompetent owners. Essentially I was arrested for doing the right thing, for telling the truth and for been honest. The receptionist had no reason to feel in danger by me as at no point was my behavior threatening, I think you will find your CCTV cameras will clarify this, if indeed they were working. I also find the situation diabolical given that she advised me to wait in a corridor full of children, Had she considered me enough of a threat to involve the police then why on earth was I asked to wait in such a public area which gave me instant access to the whole school?. Had I been the madman she thought I was, then her actions would have put the entire school in danger and in my opinion that is gross neglect on her behalf.. God forbid the day a real madman walks into **** school because the staff would be completely unprepared and would undoubtedly crumble under the pressure. In actual fact the kids would be first in the firing line because the staff were proven to be useless. To clarify.- My intentions however they were interpreted, were to return a piece of school equipment which through the negligence of your teaching staff turned up at our home. I was prepared to return the offensive weapon in a low key manner with minimal fuss, which I thought under the circumstances would have been in your best interests, .and to point out the obvious lapse in security within the school, if my child can accidentally carry a knife from the premises, how many more children can take them without question. In a school which has just merged and seems full of violence and bullying I would say this is arming the kids with the weapons they need to destroy each other. After six hours in the police station I was released without charge, my relief was short lived however when I arrived home and realized what damage the day had done to my family. You have made a mockery of what you describe as an approachable school. In fact I will be brutally honest when I say I no longer trust your judgments and I have no faith whatsoever in whatever message you are sending out to the kids. I did nothing wrong and I refuse to carry the can for your mistake. This is your problem and I hope you will seriously think about the serious issues I have raised as part of this complaint. The pain your incompetence and overreactions have caused my family is indescribable, and if I thought you would understand I would explain, but I have so little trust left I will leave the details for my solicitor to discuss with your legal team, I will not be made to look like your scape goat. I am not the bad guy, I never intended to scare anyone, and the farce which followed just proves to me what a joke the education system is. I am appalled at the lack of concern that was shown to both me and the situation. Inadvertently through my actions I have revealed some serious security and even more serious health and safety issues within your school, this affects pupils, staff and the wider general public. If I am to consider sending my son back to **** school it will be with a written promise that security measures in every single area will be reviewed, updated and thoroughly adhered too by all members of staff, in accordance with the health and safety act 1974 I am now making a formal complaint about the way I was treated by your staff. I am also prepared to make public the seriousness of the security issues which you seem unaware of at **** school. As a parent I believe that education is secondary to safety and I will not send my child to a school that cannot guarantee his safety and protection and after Friday?s shambles you are a long way off proving this. You are apparently educated people yet Friday s actions made a mockery of what honesty is all about. Its basic common sense, not rocket science!. I am, what is deemed as common, but I have more sense than the lot of you put together. You have collectively failed my child along with every child in the school by putting their lives and my own in danger. I hold you fully responsible for the damage, upset, stress and trauma you have now done to myself and my family. I just hope staff training goes some way in preparing your staff in the eventuality of a real incident. I do not have a complaint with the police officers who arrested me as they were acting upon over exaggerated information passed on by the school. There was absolutely no need for matters to be taken to the extremes they were, if my complaint had been dealt with professionally from the start none of this would have happened. But given the seriousness of the bigger picture I?m relieved we found out now, before anyone has been seriously injured or even killed. I would appreciate a written response at your earliest convenience. Hi pingu. I have edited your post to remove the name of the school, which appeared around half a dozen times. While I appreciate your desire to share your annoyance, please take more care in future. Thanks BD

Hi there. Im putting the letter of complaint in its own topic if thats ok. I'm sorry to hog 2 topics but i want this thread to be a place where steve can come and take support from. Hes in bed totally crestfallen, so i am trying to do the right thing and get my facts right. I have put the letter of complaint under the topic. .... 'letter of complaint - following steves arrest' Hope you dont mind. (i could have put it here but its rather long). Thanks again for your support shaz

thank you viper. i am going to make him read this now. x

thanks again for your support. its helping.....today is worse than yesterday to be honest. In 11 years i have seen steve cry twice... in twenty four hours i've lost count of the amount of times he's lost it. This was sooooo not needed. I have made the LEA aware ofwhat happened and they were annoyed that it was all over and done with before i made them aware of it. I am in the process of writing it all down, when i have done so i am going to email it to EVERY single person i can think of. We as parents need to make a stand on school security for one, above all that is what has cut steve up. he cant understand why.... if they suspected him to be a knife weilding maniac who needs the armed police, then WHY was he left standing next to an assembly hall in a corridor full of kids..... These are supposed to be educated people for gods sake, yet they havent a clue how many people are walking around with knifes, moreso, when he tried to bring it to there attention, as a caring parent, he is arrested for it.. theres lots more to say, but im needed elsewhere so i will try and come back later... Im going to try and sit steve down later and show him your replies, i think they would help him understand that you are all on our side, he really needs your support. Now if ever there was a time. shaz

thank you all. today has been horriffic and im not exgagerating when i say how angry we feel. Because of that school, every member of my family has suffered. they could have stopped any of that happenening, afterall the head had sorted it and confirmed this in a gentlemans handshake..... knowing what lay outside for my hubby...... so... hubbys suffered.. and when i say suffered i mean badly, he has broad shoulders and can handle most things, but this has rocked him to the core, because he was trying to do the right thing. he has now lost what little faith he had in society. i have suffered - i need not elaborate, but lets just say i've had better days our eldest has suffered - He gets hauled from class to be told his dad has been dragged to the police station - he is gutted (in his own 'silent' way) that he brought about these circumstances, but still doesnt accept he has a 'problem' our daughter - who seems to have the boys dose of compassion emotion and feeling, is gutted, because steve wasnt home when she came in from school she knew something was wrong. i held off telling her until he came back. We were honest with all of them about the circumstances mainly because its going to be public knowledge soon anyway. she had trouble settling tonight because she worries too much as it is about everything... this has made things ten times worse - especially as hubby has bright red rings around his wrists where the handcuffs were too tight. kieran who is our only child blatent enough to display his autism, held steve fully responsible for getting arrested along with a seperate charge of not making it to the shops for his treat. in his own way i guess he's worried too because he's in my bed again the whole things cocked up the new routine we were trying at bedtime. My parents have suffered too because they sat with me all day, dad took the day off work to run around after us and offer his support, mum who's diabetic was told yesterday her levels are dangerously high yet she too was here when i needed her. I feel like we have taken a massive hit. I, like steve have lost a lot of faith in the system. i dread monday. today has been a complete nightmare ive had enough of this politically correct maddness. thanks for your support - i suppose i'd better try the sleep thing shaz

thank you. we are going to act on your advice and find a solicitor, the one he had today dealt in criminal law not family law. but i dont want to go to that meeting on tuesday without one. as for publicity - hubby has contacted the papers and the radio station. we WILL NOT take this lying down - im far to angry for that

indeed. I think she over reacted. last i heard she was been given a cup of hot sweet tea to calm her nerves...... I hope she choked on it. My family has been through hell today. kieran was upset by the change of routine (daddy usually picks him up) instead i had to do it... looking like death warmed up. yesterday the doctor told me i should be in hospital, i argued my family needed me.. how right i was

Hi there. There was an incident at my sons school today, which saw my husband arrested at gunpoint. I am livid my husband is livid it came to my attention yesterday that my eldest son had accidently brought home a stanley knife from art. He didnt want to take it back for fear of repremand. I have a double pnemonia so hubby offered to take the knife back and ask 1) why a child is using a stanley knife in art instead of an art/craft knife 2) why the knife wasnt missed (or) accounted for (for three weeks - which is the amount of time its been in his bag) 3) what the policy was for such incidents. He walked into school freely - and explained to the receptionist that he was there to return THEIR knife. She asked him to take a seat. 15 minutes later the headteacher talked to my husband and accepted full responsibily for their incompetence. They shook hands and my husband left the school...... To be confonted in the car park by the armed responce team who pointed their guns at his disabled body and arrested him for carrying an offensive weapon into school. Six hours later they release him without charge due to insufficent evidence. Meanwhile i only know whats going on when i ring his phone to ask where he was, i knew he was due to pick up his morphine and hadnt done so.... his phone was answered by the police who told me he had been detained. I immediatly withdrew my son from the school, afterall if they are happy to give knifes away and not know they are missing, how many other people are carrying them around. it is not a safe place to be as far as im concerned. To top all this. i have been banging my head on the same brick wall for years about the eldest and his problems (which are seperate from todays incidents but have added up to all this in a way) only to be told by the senco today that tyheir is NOTHING in his school records at all to suggest that liam is in need of any extra help. IN FACT their is NOTHING in his records full stop... the f8ile is empty barring his enrollement form..... HOW is it empty when i have had close contact with the ex senco for years???? There is an emergency meeting on tuesday and some ones head will roll for this. All my hubby did was to take back what rightfull ybelonged to them at no time was he threatening or aggresive, he is disabled and can barely walk, yet the receptionist told the head there was a madman in the school, before hiding behind a glass screen and leaving all those kids in the corridors to fend for themselves. god forbid there actions should a real madman walk onto those school grounds because they obviously put their own safety before that of the kids, he was asked to wait by the main assembly hall (full of kids) whilst they secretly phoned the police.... had he been dereanged he could have wiped out 500 kids but the receptoionist and staff would have been fine coz they went and hid. Its diabloicle Your views please.. did steve do the right thing in taking the knife back or do you think he shouldnt have bothered. Afterall though he was only trying to do what was right and also highlight a lapse security which shouldnt be allowed to happen these days. Forget about the poll as i dont think ive done it right. im still steaming hot here. its just yet another thing we didnt need. Emotions are running very high here and i hope you forgive my blurb, but you are the only people we have got to confide in and we could both do with your support right now. Take care everyone shaz and steve.

Hi Mumble, thats practically what we are doing now, its like they have taken over the entire house, steve and i sit in the kitchen because there is always one of them in the room, and they are always doing their own thing in there so we let them have it, and maybe reclaim the living room on a night for an hour whilst their in bed, only there bedroom is right above the front room, so all we can hear is them messing about and banging etc..... They are at it now as a matter of fact. ive tried everything from punishment to praise to lights, to music to weights to gentle exercise, releaxation, even given them all a candlelit lavendar bath before now but nothing switches the two boys off, wheras our daughter cant wait to sleep on a nighttime, and gets frustrated at the constant noise. I can stand in the bedroom and they would still mess about.... unless i loose the plot totally they wont switch off. they just sort of fall asleep when they can no longer stay awake. But thanks for the advice, its just a shame we have to live in this divided way. shaz

Hi J's mum. Thanks for the advice. we are in council housing, and im convinced the pressure would be lifted if we could calm the eldest down on a night. He seems unable to switch off and fiddles/reads/but mostly he is awake just making odd random noises, or saying quotes from spiderman or something like that. Hubby says its him that needs the medication and not kieran. the phychologist is going to be expecting to speak about K and we really need to speak about L again. Thanks again. your ideas are very interesting and i will be looking into what we can do to make the situation better. We have just been talking about giving the boys our room, as its a little bigger (not much) but at least they will be at the oppsite side of the house to the neighbours and their sister. we could have their room then. shaz

Hi There. We have a phychologist appointment on wednesday. this is supposed to be concerning K. (8-Asd, and many other things) The doctor asked us to complete a sleep diary to see if he needs melatonin. During our observations of K's sleep it became clear that he does have huge difficulty sleeping, but the reasons for this are not down to him, they are down to his 15 year old brother with whom he shares a room. Our 15 year old had twice been assessed for asd's but because he had a good meaning of emotion and good eye contact, it was found twice that he wasnt on the spectrum.... And you know how the story goes dont you. this means that even though he struggles in every single way with every aspect of independant living and thinking, he recieves no help and is branded the lazy clown of the school, who has no friends and is socially immature. Anyway. it turns out that through doing the sleep diary that it is 15 yr old son causing the disturbance at night time, by doing stupid things, making noises, talking about stuipd stuff, just been generally daft really. We really need his help to calm things down on a night, to stop K sleeping in L's bed for example, if he laid quietly then K would go to sleep, but the 15 yr old seems totally incapable of doing this... Lo and behold, we had a rare opportunity to go out on friday and after much planning got all three round to mums, who had them for the night, and guess what..... 15 year old had a headache and went to bed at 8.30. closely followed by K who does everything his brother does. and all three were sleeping like babies by 9.45 In our house its closer to midnight.... Then.... parents inform me that their routine works a treat when they stay there and they cant understand why it doesnt work for us . Jesus the frustration in crushing.. We have been trying for 4 years to get things settled on a night, we've seen doctors phychologisis, mental health workers, occupatiuonal therapists. everyone has said... well just seperate them.... HOW. we live in a matchbox as it is. The only option we have is to give one of them our room, and for us to sleep downstairs, but i can guarentee that it won't work, because the boys will wander around all night cos they both cant bear to be parted, the 15 year old relies on K just as much as K relies on L. There is so many other things that are soooo wrong at the moment, with all three of them. I believe they are all on the spectrum. and the CPN has said the same, but getting help and getting someone with authority to admit this to enable any sort of help is harder than getting blood from a stone. Dont know what i want you all to say really, i think i just needed to vent at the frustration im feeling... The world is blind. shaz

What a situation, and unfortunatly you are not alone. Its a case of having too many cooks really isnt it. Kids see so many professionals in the line of diagnosis, and unfortunatly the kids dont 'act' the same at each visit so the professionals end up with different findings. I hope the clinic in question replies within the seven days you have given them. Please keep us updated on the outcome. Take care shaz

thanks tally x

thanks tally your a star. <'> i have a lot to learn No one else (apart from kieran) has been bitten since i bombed the house, but to add insult to injury. Some of kierans exisiting bites have become infected so the doctor has signed him off school, problem is we've only just managed to get him to stay all day after going back from the summer holidays, AND..... He has a 'patch' on his leg which i didnt know was there when i saw the doctor yesterday, i saw it when i bathed him last night. im convinced it's ringworm . Whilst i kniow this isnt actually a worm it doesnt change the fact the our adopted cat has once again been blamed for all this. we love her to bits, and have done everything to avoid this. but what a ###### performance. we have such a lot of strays and locals hanging around all over the estate and i dont seem able to get on top of it. To top all that DD has been sent home from school No rest for the wicked. And i must have been very wicked coz someone up there isnt giving me much of a break right now............ humphhh. fleas worms nits, mites, ticks, and bugs in general they should all be made illegal. But anyway thanks for the advice. Ill look forward to hearing what i can attack her with next..... PoP <<< Thats my new signiture..... i cant put what it means cos the Mods will be forced to delete it. but an alternative version would be P'eed Off Penguin.

Hi tally yes we are using vet prescribed stuff. he assures me it will work, but reading previous threads i did i test which involves combing her and putting the debris onto some kitchen roll. (was that you that said that??) anyway i did that this morning. and although the paper went red where the black dots were, the black dots wernt moving, so i hope this is a sign that she is settling down. As for the rest of the house, hubby has ripped the carpet up in the utility room, so ive been cleaning that all day. Im here now listening to kieran and my eldest making a right din upstairs. they just dont get how knackered i am. i need a drink x