Good imagination but other difficulties

[jlp]

My little one is 4 and over the years I've been worried on and off about him however the fact that he does have good imaginative play has mostly steered me away from ASD (my oldest son was diagnosed with AS at almost 5).

 

However his behaviour is really getting me down at the minute, it's like walking on eggshells between all the tantrums. He likes things a certain way, just an example but today we were about to cross a road, I said 'it's safe to cross' and immediately a major tantrum because he hadn't wanted me to say those words. He ran back on the road several times because I hadn't done it right. I'm forever chasing him as he hurtles away.

 

He's also very oppositional - drawing all over new wall paper, toothpaste every where and other deliberate naughtiness. Nursery are finding him hard work and he now has a star chart but will only look at it when he's had a good day and knows there's a treat involved.

 

Now this could all be typical 4 year old behaviour, particularly since his brother has challenging behaviour but he does seem to stand out in nursery compared to the other children - he's always the one refusing to sit on the mat whent he other children do, today he pulled a curtain down, on open days and sports days he doesn't take part and they end in tears (usually someone elses!). He's the oldest in the class and has been there for a full year since he was 3 and has always been tricky. He's totally different to ds#1 however.

 

So I wondered if the good imagination, and the fact that he can be very social when he wants to, rules out ASD for certain and if anyone's read anything on the web regarding ASD and imagination that they could point me to for information? I can't find much online. Sorry that sounds very vague!

[pearl]

Its more how the imagination & sociability presents itself. He sounds v much like JP at that age. Incredibly imaginative, but not in a "typical" way IYSWIM. The same with sociability, he's always been friendly & chatty & loves to communicate, but again in a v AS way that his peers found baffling.

Does that ring any bells with you?

 

Hasten to add I'm not saying he is ... just that it can present in different ways.

[westie]

It may be worth having a look at PDA and see if that fits/ seems familiar

 

http://ccgi.pdacontact.org.uk/forum/

 

http://adc.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/88/7/595

 

http://www.nas.org.uk/nas/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=306&a=3352

 

it is a pervasive development disorder like autism and aspergers, and kids with diagnoses of ASD/ PDD NOS have been subssequently diagnosed with PDA.

[westie]

sorry posted twice

Edited November 29, 2007 by westie

[LizC]

Hi My son has asperger syndrome and he has very good imagination. as the pp said it isn't that they can't have it, it is the way they present it. Matthew's tends to be quite over dramatic, has amazing things in, death often comes in to it lol.

[Flora]

The imagination thing always puzzles me. There are many NT's with little or no imagination, and I think it's been proven by much of the art work done by autistics that not all are devoid of imagination. I think this is why it's recently been changed to 'theory of mind' rather than imagination which covers a wider range of concepts.

 

Theory of mind is the ability to imagine what other people may perceive; the lack of this has nothing to do with being able to make things up use your imagination. What they are looking for now is whether a person is able to see situations from somebody else's point of view. I think many of the assessment processes, particularly the ADOS test is far to prescriptive. I know the researchers near us are looking into ways of changing aspects of the ADOS test to incorporate areas of 'learned imagination', and look more into theory of mind rather than a child using a learned experience which could mimic imaginative play etc. Many assessors possibly already do this, but it does often take a bit of time for some of them to catch up.

 

I think I've described this a bit simplistically, but that's the basics of it.

 

Flora

[westie]

The imagination thing always puzzles me. There are many NT's with little or no imagination, and I think it's been proven by much of the art work done by autistics that not all are devoid of imagination. I think this is why it's recently been changed to 'theory of mind' rather than imagination which covers a wider range of concepts.

 

Theory of mind is the ability to imagine what other people may perceive; the lack of this has nothing to do with being able to make things up use your imagination. What they are looking for now is whether a person is able to see situations from somebody else's point of view. I think many of the assessment processes, particularly the ADOS test is far to prescriptive. I know the researchers near us are looking into ways of changing aspects of the ADOS test to incorporate areas of 'learned imagination', and look more into theory of mind rather than a child using a learned experience which could mimic imaginative play etc. Many assessors possibly already do this, but it does often take a bit of time for some of them to catch up.

 

I think I've described this a bit simplistically, but that's the basics of it.

 

Flora

 

I think that is a really good explanation, especially of theory of mind thanks!

And my son does not really appear to see things from others perspective at all! Especially when he was younger (but even now to some degree) he plays games such as cars, or soldiers or other games like that, but he wants the other person to do or say things exactly as he directs "say this", "put that car there", "drive it this way", and did not like it one bit if they deviated from the plan in his head!!

[jlp]

Thank you, that's all really useful and gives me something to think about.

 

For some reason I didn't get an email notification saying there were replies so just seen this.

 

PDA was mentioned with ds#1 after his diagnosis but I didn't think he fit the description, ds#2 does on a bad day / week but can be lovely too. He seems at his absolute worst for an hour or two after nursery, he comes out in a terrible mood even after a good day!

 

Thanks again

[westie]

There are certain things in my sons behaviour which did not "fit" with PDA and the person who originally suggested PDA said that he did have features of Aspergers (the more rigid behaviour in regards to which way to walk to school for example, and having lucky ducks all facing same way not really detailing PDA but more ASD) but as it is all part ofASD spectrum, and as kids can be diagnosed with more than one thing, perhaps they should cross over. This lady pointed out to me that it was important to address the behaviour or concern that is most affecting him and his progress, and for him it was the features of PDA, and this was the thing we concentrated on (and are still I might add - no easy solutions here, just lots of try it for a while and try something else when that stops working!)

I hope you do find the answers