Aggression - advice needed

[westie]

My youngest, C, was diagnosed ASD earlier this year. He has problems mixing with other children his age, and is possessive about toys etc and unable to share, this sometimes leads to aggressive behaviours towards others. I was taking him to playgroup 3 times a week as I realise it is important for his social development to mix with other children his age.

 

One of the professionals advised me to use a visual timer and remove him to side when he was being aggressive, and I bought a "time out teddy" online. This worked for a while in terms of he would sit on my knee (bit of protesting), I would set timer and he would listen for it ringing before he could go back. However over past few months he has taken to wriggling if I try to remove him after he has been aggressive to another child (also accompanied by screaming and shouting) and if I persist in trying to move him he is hitting, pulling my hair, trying to bite (and sometimes succeeding) and headbutting me if I stop him hitting with hands and feet.

 

He is a big 3 yr old, so it is not easy to carry him especially when he is trying to escape. Also having all the other parents staring (first at his aggression and possessiveness then me trying to deal with it)does not help. Last week he bit me when I picked him up to go home after he had been fighting/ arguing with my neighbours child and the bruise is still there a week later. My eldest started like this, from no aggression to being extremely aggressive to me and others (before my eldests diagnosis I sent him to a private nursery full time, and he could not cope with this and that is when the aggression started with him), and between ages of about 6 or 7 the aggression did wane to occasional incidents (always at school nowadays not to me or his dad because we have learned what triggers him, and not to touch him, or speak to him too much etc if he is mad or wound up plus he does not have to deal with kids pushing his buttons or changing teachers etc at home).

 

Any suggestions of what else I could try to deal with it in this sort of public situation I would be grateful for. I am sure that many others have been through it and may have some useful things to try.

 

As I said before, I had it with eldest and tried to struggle through, but second time around I am finding it harder to deal with and do not want to wait for him to mature a bit and for it to go away on its own - of course waiting may be only answer, but I do feel its worth asking you all anyway! Another thing I feel is because with eldest I did not do it right his pattern of behaviour was ingrained and it has been so much harder to try and get him to deal with things in a more acceptable way.

 

What I am trying is not working now so I need to do something different/ better than what I know or have tried so far.

 

I am also scared that C is going to start this at school and it will be a repeat of my eldest's school life (not too good, although could be much worse so I should be grateful) C has just last week started school in the afternoon's and nothing major has been reported so far, but I would not want him to be hurting teachers if they also try to remove him from situation where he is being aggressive to another child.

 

Thanks for your help

X

[JsMum]

However over past few months he has taken to wriggling if I try to remove him after he has been aggressive to another child (also accompanied by screaming and shouting) and if I persist in trying to move him he is hitting, pulling my hair, trying to bite (and sometimes succeeding) and headbutting me if I stop him hitting with hands and feet.

 

Its not working as time out with children with developmental disorders dont, I couldnt use time out, it became a hazard in the end that I had to stop to prevent serious harm, I feel that with J he is developmentally behind by around 4-5 yrs and so if your son is three, he possibly could still be developing and his social skills still hasnt developed, I found it impossible to get J to share, that for safety reasons I bought two or three of each thing I knew the children would be most interested in, mostly bought from charity shops, I know it ment he had not learnt to share, but trying to get him to share was having a serious effect on other children, basically been hit, scratched, kicked, nipped, bit, you name it, anything to get the toy back.

 

Sometimes J wasnt the guilty party either, J quite happily be playing with a toy and boy pushes J over and grabs the toy, so war broke out, and J managed wrongly got into trouble yet again, so supervision is key, distraction is another, and constant stimulation and enuthiasm to keep the child engaged, trying to be involved early, spotting the signs that things are esculating, what works well for J now is a quite area, somewhere he doesnt have to share, interact, somewhere he can actually shut down, over stimulation over whelms J but he craves it constantly so he is a constant working cog.

 

 

I would look at social stories that explain about sharing, taking turns, have picture books that illistrate it, puppet shows are good for getting there attention.

 

Personally I am still working on the sharing, so possibly not the best person to ask, but time out didnt work for J, it actually made him worse, gave him a chance to totally kick off, been held and restrained was a self profitting, he got to be held tight, secure and he actually liked that, so we got a weighted blanket, this has massively reduced the need to hold him tight.

 

Js other difficulties are control and power, he couldnt take it if he could not be in charge, and when he was he was totally consumed and scared, what made this so strong was his anxieties, what gave him anxieties, sensory and interaction, so we work on these, strengthen these, help him cope with the feelings of anxiety, little relaxation cds, musical instruments, massage equiptment, soft cuddle things, tactile toys, puzzles that interst them, the beaded cubes are great for getting there attention.

 

Another good one would be to look at feelings, and ways to express and explore them, anger management can start at any age, so three isnt too young, you could use colours or numbers to illistrate the feeling, so red is anger and love, blue is calm or sad, 1 is really relaxed, 5 is restless, 8 is working into a rumble, 10 is Im reallly really angry.

 

J is 11 and really gets very overwelmed with interacting, having to listen, having to take turns to say a sentence, before it goes out there head, it really is exhausting for them.

 

Js waiting for a specialist placement and so were hoping to get the right support in both the staff, the children and the enviroment, looking back J couldnt cope been in such a busy, destracted, confusing place.

 

The sharing and making and keeping friends for us is a contunuing journey.

 

JsMum

Edited September 29, 2008 by JsMum

[jlp]

I had the same with ds#2 when we used to go to toddler group. Ds#1 was also the same and I persevered with him and went twice a week every week (I ended up running it!), at that age I didn't know he had ASD and thought we needed to keep going and he would learn. Unfortunately he didn't and it was just stressful.

 

So with ds#2 I gave up, we went occasionally but not religiously like I had with ds#1. I just couldn't take it!

 

In your situation and having a diagnosis I would possibly look into a special need play group (our local Barnardos has one), ideally an ASD one where hopefully you wouldn't feel so awkward and could maybe have specialist staff helping you get some strategies going.

 

I know this wouldn't be everyone's answer and some people prefer to be included in mainstream activities but I just couldn't do the stress all over again.

[westie]

Thanks so much j'smum and jlp for your replies, some useful tips (and experiences I too can relate to as well). As he is now at school I won't be taking him as much. Perhaps time out is not the answer, and distraction may be better to try for the minute.

 

 

And J's mum your description of your son having things taken away from him by others is another thing I can relate to, with C other kids do also go up to him and take things away from him which can provoke a bit of an extreme reaction!

 

Got to get him dressed for school now, and then get the tv off (he has been watching the same dvd for days and when he goes out he wants to carry it with him )

 

Thanks again

[Sooze2]

My son still can't share and will snatch things he wants out of peoples hands with no warning. What I found with play dates etc was that I would put all his favourite toys away out of sight before people came to prevent the meltdowns, its sounds extreme but it was so hard to deal with especially because the parents would insist on staying for a "nice chat and a coffee".

 

I still have to treat him the same as when he was little. If he has a tatrum when out he has to sit next to me, it doesn't matter where we are or what we are doing. After throwing his scooter around at other kids in the park I made him sit next to me and had to hold his wrist and make him stay there, he hit me threw grass at me and put it down my top etc etc but I made him stay. It took a long time for him to calm down but it takes less time each time because he knows I won't let him go off and do the same thing again. If he does it outside school I take him back in and make him sit on a chair till he is calm. At home he has to go in his room untill he is calm and I say he can come out.

 

With toddler group I was very lucky, at one point I said I wasn't going to take him to the toddler group anymore and the ladies who ran it said I should keep coming so he learnt that he had to share or there were consequeses. I would take him into another room and make him sit down till he was calm. He thought that all the trikes belonged to him and if a child dared to sit on the one he may have liked to used next he would go absolutely mad!!!! It was torture really and I hated it but I am so glad I did it now.

 

Ive found that holding his wrist and marching him off is easier than trying to hold him, that way he can't hit me because I keep him an arms length away from me! That sounds awful eh lol. Sometimes when he is having a go outside school I stretch my hand out and put it on his chest so he can't get to me.

 

You could dig out the buggy and start taking it with you. Tell him that when he starts having a tantrum or tries to hurt you he will be strapped in the buggy and follow it through. Try and catch him before he goes into full meltdown so he's not at his strongest. I used to put DS in it and hold him in by putting my knee in his belly so I could do the straps up. This worked fairly quickly and after doing it a few times just the threat of the buggy was enough. I know he is too big for the buggy but that in it self may be enough to stop him but you do need to do it at leat once to let him know you mean what you say.

 

Don't worry about what others think, just blank them and concentrate on what you have to do, they may now deal with their children in the way that you do but that is none of their business.

 

My son knows what he should and shouldn't do in theory, he passed the therory of mind tests with flying colours but he can't put them into practice. He knows the social rules, is obsessed with others adhearing to them but they don't apply to him. He just can't see that coming out of school and whacking me around the legs repeatedly with his cornet case whilst screeming his head off because we have to go to the doctors with his little sister is unccaptable but if another child were to do that he would be outraged!!!

 

He was poorly for a couple of days this week and so nice and calm, no sisters to deal with no school, just driving his cars around the front room in and out of his garage. If only everyday could be like that eh.

 

I hope things settle down for ou soon.

[westie]

Thanks Sooze2, your son sounds a lot like my eldest! He too points out unacceptable behaviour in others but can't see same rules apply to him too. I could try the wrist holding thing, but when I do hold his hand he often tries to bend and wriggle away, or he throws himself on the floor to escape my grip. Until recently, I did use the pram very often to try and contain him when walking anywhere (he runs off a lot and hates holding my hand, or he will refuse to walk) but he hates being in it and screams and escapes (I bought one of those 3 wheeler ones which fold up really small but its disadvantage is that is it fairly unstable especially with a tall 3 year old stood up trying to escape out of the reins in it!� It may be worth a try, though would have to go to the playgroup in the car because he would not sit in it to walk there and back, and I need all hands free when walking with him as he tends to run off, climb things, sit on the floor and refuse to move etc. - maybe this will all be familiar to you too!Hope your son is feeling better now.