'Lie To Me': ASD and the study of body language...

[bid]

Just watched a new series 'Lie To Me', enjoyable hokum featuring Gabriel Burne (there's a Propa Man Bloke, but I digress )

 

It centres on a scientist who has specilialised in the study of body language and facial expressions and as such is 'the world's leading deception specialist'.

 

http://www.fox.com/lietome/about/

 

Anyway, when I wasn't admiring GB, I wondered whether the study of body language and facial expressions can reliably be applied to those on the autistic spectrum? Do those of us with autism exhibit body language/facial expressions that have a contrary explanation compared to the observed 'models' of NT behaviour (e.g. stroking the nose = lying, etc)?

 

Any thoughts?

 

Bid

Edited May 15, 2009 by bid

[bid]

Just watched a new series 'Lie To Me', enjoyable hokum featuring Gabriel Burne (there's a Propa Man Bloke, but I digress )

 

It centres on a scientist who has specilialised in the study of body language and facial expressions and as such is 'the world's leading deception specialist'.

 

http://www.fox.com/lietome/about/

 

Anyway, when I wasn't admiring GB, I wondered whether the study of body language and facial expressions can reliably be applied to those on the autistic spectrum? Do those of us with autism exhibit body language/facial expressions that have a contrary explanation compared to the observed 'models' of NT behaviour (e.g. stroking the nose = lying, etc)?

 

Any thoughts?

 

Bid

 

Duh!!

 

It's TIM ROTH, not Gabriel Burne!!

 

Bid

 

[Sally44]

That is suggested.

I have recently had to complete some questionnaires about my sons language and body gestures. And my son definately uses some sometimes, but at other times he has no expression, inappropriate sing song tone that does not convey his emotional state, gestures that are not entirely fitting to what he is trying to get over.

This is only my theory, but I think part of the problem for my own son is that he cannot keep the to and fro of conversation because he has to concentrate entirely on what he wants to say, or entirely on what the other person is saying and therefore finds it hard to listen and have the 'appropriate' facial expression as well. When he is talking to you he cannot keep eye contact at the same time as he needs to concentrate on finding the right words to convey the message. So I think alot of his difficulties are down to an inability to multi-task in that kind of way. I am sure others are much better at it. But for most NTs I think they can stay connected with someone in a conversation and keep their voice and gestures appropriate (whether they are interested or not) and can also be thinking about other things at the same time. I get the impression that alot of people with ASDs tend to have a kind of one track focus that makes it very hard to maintain an awareness of the other person or people or the environment at the same time.

And I believe that most people can get some idea of when a person is not telling them the truth by their voice and gestures. Not always of course, but sometimes it is just a nagging thought, that we might say is down to 'womans perception' or 'a sixth sense'.

Obviously for those people that do not get information from voice tone or gestures, or even get the wrong information, then they can only go on literal interpretation of language. For example sarcasm.

And these things are so subtle that it is hard to rote learn something that you can always apply in those situations.

My own mother, who I am sure has at least traits of AS and maybe full blown AS always asks me my opinion on social interaction stuff when it involves her having to talk to another person. And she has said herself that she can never learn from a past incident, because the next time it is never exactly the same and therefore she cannot apply the same approach as last time. My mum is a virtual recluse because of it. And she has never managed to keep a job for more than a couple of months, and always took jobs that were way below her capability, seeking instead a situation where she could work alone.

And again it must be on a sliding scale as some on the spectrum have total face blindness. Whilst others are relatively capable. I think my son has some skills in this area.

The only thing I have experienced myself which I think might be similar, is when I lived abroad and didn't know the language. It took a while to pick it up, and whilst I was doing that it was incredibly hard to sit in a group of people all chatting away and not being able to understand what they were saying. Afterall, what type of expression do you have on your face when you don't know what the topic of conversation is. I could be sat there with a smile on my face whilst they are talking about a dying relative! And you simply cannot concentrate on language you don't understand for more than 5 minutes before you get a headache. Then you progress to understanding some of the language, but not at the speed it is spoken. So you pick up a couple of words from each sentence and try to make sense of it. Sometimes you get the complete opposite understanding of what was said depending on what you managed to 'hear and process'. And many times you can only listen and cannot contribute to the conversation because by the time you have processed it the conversation has moved two topics away. And you do make many mistakes with literal interpretation of language because you don't know their sayings. I remember how proud I felt when I actually understood a joke as it was said and not half an hour later!

[Tally]

I think it's true that our body language might not always be the same as other people's. Even if people are aware of this, they still read body language subconsciously and might have feelings about us which are wrong. I know that I often get accused of lying when I am not lying, and I hate it.

 

An obvious example is with eye contact - a lack of eye contact is thought to signify dishonesty.

[Diane]

Hi Tally,

 

This happens with my son when we are with people who do not know him. He body language does not match up with what he is saying. He is learning.

[Canopus]

Do those of us with autism exhibit body language/facial expressions that have a contrary explanation compared to the observed 'models' of NT behaviour (e.g. stroking the nose = lying, etc)?

 

I believe this is the case, and it's a prominent reason why many people with AS fail job interviews.

 

I think it's true that our body language might not always be the same as other people's. Even if people are aware of this, they still read body language subconsciously and might have feelings about us which are wrong. I know that I often get accused of lying when I am not lying, and I hate it.

 

It's also why so many kids with AS take the blame for things at school they didn't do.

[Sally44]

Can I ask, as an NT, how you use body gestures or facial expressions. Do you use them automatically and believe that you are using them appropriately and then find that they are not quite right. Or are you consciously thinking about which ones to use? And why do you think there is this separation between the words and voice tone and gestures/facial expression.

[bid]

Can I ask, as an NT, how you use body gestures or facial expressions. Do you use them automatically and believe that you are using them appropriately and then find that they are not quite right. Or are you consciously thinking about which ones to use? And why do you think there is this separation between the words and voice tone and gestures/facial expression.

 

It depends on the situation. The more stresssed I am, the more 'conscious' it all has to be and the more not quite right it all seems. The ultimate expression of this is when I'm so stressed that I close down

 

However, even when I'm at my most relaxed and not 'thinking' about everything I'm saying or doing I know from friends that I still come across as a bit wack!

 

Bid

Edited May 20, 2009 by bid

[Tally]

Hi Sally,

 

I was only recently diagnosed with AS, and first became aware of the possibility six years ago (I am 27 now). Prior to that I never consciously thought about my body language and what I used was automatic. However, because we do not observe it normally and pick it up subconsciously as NTs do (well, I believe that is the reason), mine is not typical and sometimes comes across quite differently to how I mean it. Even if the person I am talking to is aware of this, they probably still unconsciously interpret it in a 'typical' way.

 

It is only since becoming aware of Asperger's that I have had any conscious awareness of my non-verbal communication and made a conscious effort to alter it to what is normal. I now make a deliberate effort to smile or laugh if I am saying something critical as a joke or sarcastically, and it is gradually becoming more natural to me to do this. I am also more aware that making jokes like these can be hurtful if I don't come across right and make a deliberate effort to avoid them if I fear I might not be able to get the body language right. I find that hard because I always find a jokey relationship easiest to maintain and have always worked in very laddish environments where my colleagues share these kinds of relationships with each other. It seems to be having a positive effect and people seem to get my jokes now.

 

I also find that my body language is quite 'flat' and understated. Colleagues often think that I am unhappy because I don't smile very much. I don't actually tend to go around scowling or anything, I simply don't show any facial expression much of the time. Whenever people asked if I was OK in the past I just used to reply, "no, I'm fine thanks," but they wouldn't believe me. Since I have become more aware of this, I now deliberately try to smile and reply something a bit jokey like, "I'm OK, I was just relaxing my face," and now they just think I am really weird instead I haven't worked out a way to make myself look more happy generally as I think it would seem strange if I went round with an inane grin on my face and can't work out what a happy medium would be. If I ever do work it out, I think it is something I would have to work consciously at for a long time before it became natural.

 

I have also realised that when I passed a colleague in the corridor, I would only say anything to them if they first said something. I did this because I didn't want to intrude if they did not seem to want to talk to me, but people probably found me cold and some might even have thought that I felt them unworthy of my time. Now though, I try to smile and say hello to everyone I come across, because I have realised that this is what most other people do. I have only realised this because I have deliberately observed their behaviour after realising mine was different and was contributing to my inability to make friends. It is still a conscious effort to remember to smile every time, though it is starting to get easier. I also try to make a comment if, say, I have not seen them for a while I might ask if they have been on holiday, and then ask if they went away and had a nice time or something. Previously I would not have known how to show any interest in them, but now I realise that asking these types of questions is a good way to show that I care about people. I have built up a short repertoire of questions I can ask to make light conversation based on the way I have seen other people talk to each other and to me. I have found that people's attitudes toward me have changed and it's becoming more common for colleagues to engage me in short conversations and I feel as though they like me a little bit now. I also make a special effort to smile and say hello when I see a new starter as I understand now that this will make a good first impression, and could also make them feel more comfortable if they feel nervous about meeting their new colleagues and whether they will fit in here.

 

I am starting a new job soon and I am going to make a special big effort then because I now understand that making a good first impression is easier than trying to overcome a poor one. People have often said about me that they discover once they have got to know me that I am a nice and funny person, and now I realise that it is more likely that people will give me that opportunity if I can make a good first impression. Until now it is only when I have been in forced contact with people over a period of time (like working with them or being in a school lesson with them) that I have had the opportunity to get to know them. In my new job I hope that I will get to make friends with some of the people I don't work directly alongside.

 

I have read a book about body language, but I did not find it terribly helpful. Most books around are about interpreting other people's body language and I feel I am not ready for that yet. What I need is a really basic book about what body language I should show. Most of my progress has been made by observing other people and focussing on the basics . . . to be honest, smiling is the only one I have really got any clue about! I have also become aware that folding my arms appears defensive and is not a good thing to do in, say, a meeting or an interview. It has been something I have had to do consciously and remains a conscious effort, though it is gradually becoming more natural. I think that, eventually, it could be something I am able to do without thinking about it.

[Sally44]

Blimey, that sounds like very hard work

I don't know that I would have the patience or endurance to keep that up.

But you have explained it so well. It makes me realise how complicated we all are to be doing these things all the time!

And I suppose we do make snap judgements about people on how they appear to us.

I think the saying "don't judge a book by its cover", is very true. But we all respond to first impressions.

Sometimes I must admit that if I see someone and I can't be bothered to go through this ritual, that I will duck into a shop to wait until they have passed. I don't sound very social do I!!

I can be when I want to be. But I do find the 'up keep' of friendships hard to do. Other people seem to require too much maintenance. I am quite happy to see someone once a month, or even less.

And now I have children, they have a better social life than me!

 

As I mentioned about first impressions. Would you, as someone with an ASD make a judgement on someone as to whether you want to be friendly with them or not based on their tone of voice, facial expression or gestures. Are these things something you use to base your judgements? Again, I am presuming that it will be on a sliding scale, as some children cannot tell if someone is being nasty or nice to them. And others can have a much better insight into how a person is. What is your opinion?

[Canopus]

I have read a book about body language, but I did not find it terribly helpful. Most books around are about interpreting other people's body language and I feel I am not ready for that yet. What I need is a really basic book about what body language I should show. Most of my progress has been made by observing other people and focussing on the basics . . . to be honest, smiling is the only one I have really got any clue about! I have also become aware that folding my arms appears defensive and is not a good thing to do in, say, a meeting or an interview. It has been something I have had to do consciously and remains a conscious effort, though it is gradually becoming more natural. I think that, eventually, it could be something I am able to do without thinking about it.

 

Something one must be aware of is that British body language and non-verbal communication differs from that in the US.

[Tally]

I was aware of worldwide differences generally. For example, in Japan it is seen as disrespectful to make eye contact. Continental European men often cross their legs, but that is seen as slightly camp in the UK.