A little story.

[BruceCM]

Would you believe that the victim of bullying got blamed for it? The other kids picked on him because he was different, his parents explained. That scares the other kids, apparently, so he asked how he was different & what he was supposed to do about it. Of course, he just had to accept himself as he was & the other kids would too. He didn't understand this & never did get on with most of those kids at school but it was always his fault he couldn't fit in, wasn't it? So, his parents sent him to a counselor, who told him he just had to have confidence. He didn't understand that & she explained he had to believe in himself. Eventually, he managed to get a better explanation of this as believing in his skills/ abilities/ etc, for his life, as he was responsible for it.

Strangely, this didn't make any difference at school but, since it was 'only' verbal, it's how you develop good character, isn't it? So, on & on, around & around. Things improved, slightly, at college & university, before he dropped out, simply unable to cope with things. He manged years of casual factory & warehouse work, never making friends but, mostly, getting on OK with his workmates, as the jobs were only a few weeks at a time.

When he did think he was making friends, although they kept insisting on faith/ confidence, they usually called it arrogance, in practice. This was claimed to be 'the way he said it'. Sometimes, it would be explained that it was his 'attitude'. That was only said to be 'the way he said it'. Strangely, they alternately insisted he conform & accept himself as he was & so on, around & around.

He eventually got diagnosed with hypomania & was sectioned for 3 months, although he wasn't suicidal or a threat to anybody else. When he came out, he got a CPN, who claimed most of his concerns were just insecurities & reinforced the message about believing in himself. When his CPN retired, the next, who'd dealt with some people with Asperger's thought that might explain many of the problems. So, he was sent for & duly got a diagnosis, & was told about the local support group, which he went to.

Perhaps inevitably, the woman in charge also insisted on being positive but she insisted that was almost all about attitude. She told him that he'd misunderstood the basic basis of the whole 'be positive/ positive thinking', despite agreeing that everything is a matter of trust/ faith/ belief. He wasn't able to get on with that approach, probably being too logical & analytical & so left, since he needed help & support, not undermining.

Other care/ support workers didn't understand his problems & even asked why he cared.... (Maybe this story will continue?)

[Sally44]

Hi,

I'm sure your story is quite common.

I know my own mother had similar problems with work, mental health and counseling. She said it never told her how to do things, or if they did give specific advice the next instance was always 'different' and so the advice could never be applied. My mother lives as a recluse because she cannot get on with people. She feels she always 'under' or 'over' reacts to things said, and that she is often accused of being a 'snob' etc because of 'the way she said it' etc. She too was told to be confidence in her judgements. But being literal and verbalising her judgements did not go down well, especially when they were true. People don't like to know the truth.

Social interaction and communication is very difficult. Even those of us who are NT have difficulties with it and fall out with people. I have had to leave a job before because of differences with my boss. So for anyone who does not pick up the many subtle information pathways such as tone, sarcasm, or who take language literally and cannot 'give the information the person needs to hear' rather than the honest facts - then life is going to be difficult.

I personally think it is better to say you have Aspergers and that part of that means you do not understand social interaction and can get the wrong social signals from people and that they can also get the wrong signals from you.

What do you think you need that would help you?

[Mumble]

I know my own mother had similar problems with work, mental health and counseling. She said it never told her how to do things

This is not the purpose of counselling. They are not there to tell you what to do or how to do it. Of course at times we all want someone else to take over for us, tell us what to do and make things better/all go away (believe me I know that right now) but that helps no one long term. The purpose of counselling is to learn techniques you can use, adapt and apply yourself, but you have to recognise that this can be a very slow process and you're not going to get overnight fixes. You need to understand what counselling is and can do and be prepared to work hard with the counsellor (and, as with all human relationships, it may require trying a few to find someone you can work well with).

[BruceCM]

Then those counselors shouldn't have been telling me what to do & how! Sorry but duh! How were they working with me? They weren't there, at school or in my socializing now!? It's a bit late, telling me now what counseling is supposed to do & how - have that argument with those counselors, then. Quick fix? After 20-25 years, now!? Sheesh!

Best if I don't get going again...!

[BruceCM]

I did tell some 'friends' about AS. Having read a little about it, they're experts!? I don't know how & why AS causes which problems, etc, so I can't explain that to them properly. Since the claim is still that it is the way I say things, NOT the way they come across, that's it, for now. Until & unless there's better guidance that relates to reality as I know it. Sorry!

[Mumble]

It's a bit late, telling me now what counseling is supposed to do & how

I'm not having any argument with anyone. I was just trying to explain things as they have been explained to me as it has helped me significantly to work with people and to move on by understanding their role and how they go about this. Initially I found counselling very hard if not impossible (and certainly not beneficial) because I was going expecting the 'answers'. Having different (more realistic) expectations and a better understanding of the process has helped it work for me. I was simply trying to share this with you/others in case it was helpful - that's what I thought this forum was about.

[BruceCM]

OK, so why were those counselors telling me what to do & how? Why is that still what would happen at the support group? If that isn't what they're 'supposed' to be doing? See the difficulty?

 

If there was one person I knew in RL who could relate to me well enough to help with socializing, that'd be a HUGE help! That's just a dream?

[Sally44]

As far as I can tell they did talk her through the scenarios and they worked out ways that it could have been done in a different or better way. But the truth is that unless you have the actual event on video you cannot assume what was going on. And any 'general' advice they gave did not help with the next situation. So it was all rather pointless really.

I think that if something like role play had been used it might have been more useful. Because then you see how people are reacting and behaving in the actual moment.

Have you tried recording yourself? It would help it you could be doing it with someone, but that might help you??? My own son has a strange voice intonation, and an American accent. I can imagine that he does pick up innuances from other peoples' voice tone.

And many times the facial expression does not match the voice tone or tone may not match the conversational situation eg. coming over as angry when you are not. But so hard to detect or analyse yourself.

Have you thought of maybe working with a speech therapist specifically around role play and recording conversations so that you hear how you sound?

[BruceCM]

I don't have a speech therapist! The care/ support workers don't think I have strange intonation & haven't said anything about mixed body language. Which isn't to say it couldn't be a problem, of course. I don't have a video camera, to record socializing & can't afford one. Sorry!

Given it's 'so hard to detect or analyze yourself', I'm still supposed to believe (& do) that anybody else does know how they do mean to say things. So, why not in reverse? It's 'simple' enough & it's probably no tougher for my 'friends' than for me, is it?