Aspergers and work

[Bloodheart]

Should you/do you have to tell potential employers that you have Aspergers?

 

In an ideal world an employer would be able to see all the advantages of having an employee who has aspergers, in reality I'm guessing it would be treat as any other disability so you may be considered less than capable to do the job, and that chances are an interviewer or HR staff wouldn't even know what asperger's is.

 

The problem is I've been unemployed for over two years - part of that is to do with being (wrongfully) fired and the economic crisis, but part of it is because of my inability to phone people about jobs or get through interviews (only had four in over two years).

 

It would be so nice to be able to explain to employers that this problem is why I've been unemployed so long and thus why I get so nervous in interviews, why they likely take an instant dislike to me because I cannot be chummy with them during interviews. Explain to them that I can hold down a job, I am honest, I work hard, I'm super organized, can deal with the boring repetitiveness of call centre work I'm going for, etc.

 

What do you think?

Hide the problem, or be very upfront about it in the hope you can explain it, and that they don't decide you're some sort of disabled [in their mind] mentally ill freak show as a result of your problems. *sigh*

 

That's if I can still handle call centre work after so long without work, and so without much social interaction. I fear my progress has slipped back and I may freak out when confronted with new people and talking on the phone again - call centres are fine, it's different to other phone calls, but I do have an initial fear on the phones at first. I had a work placement a while back where they tried to make me do a role play when there was only one other person in my group, I was first, I freaked out and cried my eyes out and had to leave - no big loss as the company was questionable, and the trainer was bullying me into role play and implying I couldn't do the job after 10 minutes of training, but STILL. I don't like that I still have that sort of reaction after so long, I had that reaction as a kid whenever someone said anything to me, totally uncontrollable crying over nothing at all.

 

Another question is this - can someone with aspergers reasonably ask to be excluded from 'role play'?

These role plays help assess employees ability to take calls, so I can see that they are necessary, but is this a reasonable adjustment to make?

 

 

Edit: Sorry, wrong sub-forum - can admins move this?

Edited May 22, 2010 by Bloodheart

[Tally]

Hello, and welcome to the forum.

 

You do not have to tell your employer that you have Asperger's. However, if you later find that you need adjustments in order to cope with the job due to your disability, you will not be able to ask then. You do need to reveal your diagnosis from the start if you feel that adjustments will need to be made in order for you to cope with the job or the application process.

 

I don't think an employer would be willing to excuse you from the role play part of the interview, as they need to assess your telephone manner. However, it's important to remember that they are not actually expecting you to be fully competent in the job before you have had any training. What they are looking for is whether you understand the basics of being polite, etc. Also, if you can assess your own performance afterwards and point out how you could have done things differently, that is another opportunity for you to impress the interviewer.

 

There are some things that could help you perform better at interview. Making a good first impression can be very important, so if you can learn to say hello and smile at the interviewer, this might make a big difference to how the interview goes. Maybe somehow through the Job Centre, you might be able to get some support with your interview technique.

[Bloodheart]

Hello, and welcome to the forum.

 

You do not have to tell your employer that you have Asperger's. However, if you later find that you need adjustments in order to cope with the job due to your disability, you will not be able to ask then. You do need to reveal your diagnosis from the start if you feel that adjustments will need to be made in order for you to cope with the job or the application process.

 

I don't think an employer would be willing to excuse you from the role play part of the interview, as they need to assess your telephone manner. However, it's important to remember that they are not actually expecting you to be fully competent in the job before you have had any training. What they are looking for is whether you understand the basics of being polite, etc. Also, if you can assess your own performance afterwards and point out how you could have done things differently, that is another opportunity for you to impress the interviewer.

 

There are some things that could help you perform better at interview. Making a good first impression can be very important, so if you can learn to say hello and smile at the interviewer, this might make a big difference to how the interview goes. Maybe somehow through the Job Centre, you might be able to get some support with your interview technique.

 

 

Hello, and thank you for the reply.

 

I'm actually talking about role play in training, rather than in the interview.

 

Job centre are of no help, I actually used to work for the job centre so know about interview technique, I've found the staff at the job centre and associated organisations to be seriously lacking in basic knowledge of job interview and application technique...besides, it's not an issue of knowing technique...it's the fact I cannot follow those techniques during interviews, cannot small talk, relax, make eye contact etc.

 

How much of an adjustment do you think should people with asperger's get in work though - what sort of situations? Hard to give examples, but to me things such as role play are the main issues, what would be appropriate adjustments or support to ask for?

[Tally]

I've found that practising over and over again is the only way to translate something I know in theory into something I can actually do in practice.

 

It's really difficult to know what kind of adjustments you might need, because we are all so different and all jobs vary. At one point I was allowed fixed, regular shifts, but now I work in a job where I get this as a matter of course, so no adjustment is needed. I don't have any adjustments at all at the moment and I have not even told my employer about my diagnosis. I'm lucky to have fallen into a job I can manage OK in though.

 

If you're asking an employer to change their training procedure for you, then you really need to offer them an alternative. If you're asking them to go away and research what might work well for a person with Asperger's, then they might not feel it is worth the hassle, whereas if you can present a workable solution then it's easy for them to decide whether they can implement it and also shows a positive attitude toward work. It's difficult to see how they could teach you to take a phone call without getting you to pretend to take a phone call. Would it be different if they allowed you to take a real phone call?

[Bloodheart]

I've found that practising over and over again is the only way to translate something I know in theory into something I can actually do in practice.

 

It's really difficult to know what kind of adjustments you might need, because we are all so different and all jobs vary. At one point I was allowed fixed, regular shifts, but now I work in a job where I get this as a matter of course, so no adjustment is needed. I don't have any adjustments at all at the moment and I have not even told my employer about my diagnosis. I'm lucky to have fallen into a job I can manage OK in though.

 

If you're asking an employer to change their training procedure for you, then you really need to offer them an alternative. If you're asking them to go away and research what might work well for a person with Asperger's, then they might not feel it is worth the hassle, whereas if you can present a workable solution then it's easy for them to decide whether they can implement it and also shows a positive attitude toward work. It's difficult to see how they could teach you to take a phone call without getting you to pretend to take a phone call. Would it be different if they allowed you to take a real phone call?

 

Actually, as difficult as it is at first with real phone calls, I would be better taking a real phone call - it's the pretending to be on a call, in front of other people, where they're focusing on me, that is the problem...hell, if I can take a pretend call, using a phone to talk to someone on the other end pretending to be a customer, that's fine. I think in reality I'd just have to suck it up and hope I don't freak out.

[Tally]

I have to say that I think you're right about just having to deal with this somehow. It's so specific that it would make you look a bit strange if you asked for it. It also goes against the 'normal' types of anxiety, where you would expect someone to be more worried about a real phone call than a pretend one. I think employers would find it so hard to understand that they might think you were making it up and being awkward.

 

I do see what you mean about other people focussing on you. I find it really hard being watched doing things. It's so hard when I am being taught something, because obviously someone needs to watch over what I am doing and it really gets to me. Donna Williams has written a book about something called "exposure anxiety" which is what I think this is. I haven't read the book so I don't know whether it is any good, but maybe it might have some helpful suggestions. Alternatively, Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT) for anxiety might be helpful. If you can't access a therapist, you can still get a lot of benefit from a book to guide you through things. It's not ideal, but it can be a very good second best option. Maybe even some exercises you could do subtly to help calm you down, breathing or small movements of the body that other people wouldn't notice can be helpful.

[BFrench501]

Hi Bloodheart, I've had same problems with you and employment, only I've been in and out of jobs the past 18 months for various reasons. To answer your initial question - should or shouldn't you mention Aspergers? - I think that it is always best to be honest and open about Aspergers but always promote the positive effects that Aspergers can have in the workplace. It is vital that they know what they are taking on but its also vital that they know that you can cope. It is a difficult question though as many employers do discriminate in my opinion, despite not being allowed to do so by law.

 

I have an interview with HSBC on Tuesday, and I've made them aware of my condition. I have made them aware about my eye contact and that sometimes it can be fleeting but this isn't as a sign of disrespect, it's just 'one of those things' that comes with my Aspergers. A coping mechanism I use in interviews to avoid eye contact was to look at their foreheads, but sometimes I can go deep in thought and lose the coping mechanism. But give it a go!! This mechanism gives them an impression that you are looking at them, but in reality you may as well be looking at the floor! I find it easier to look if the person interviewing me is attractive!

 

Could you ask for a screen to be put between you and the interviewer for the roleplay? So it seems a little more 'real'? When I was interviewed for a job at Remploy I was allowed to have a screen between me and the panel for the roleplay part of the interview. I know thats not the issue but more training, but again why not see if the same adjustment can be put into place. If they standardise it for the whole group so you don't look like a 'special case' (as I've been labelled as before) then the anxiety will be lessened.

 

If it cannot be done at all then just consider this very simple point - do you really think the rest of the group in training will enjoy doing roleplays in front of everybody else who can scrutinise their performance if they so wish? The answer should be no. It is an awkward situation for anybody as we rarely 'pretend' to do something. It fights against our mind and the way it works but the truth is that nobody is comfortable. Use it as a learning experience, battle the anxiety as far as you can and listen and observe everybody else, because they may well have a great technique you can knick and use to give you better performance!

 

If you used to work for the JobCentre, then you will know about the WorkStep program for those who have health conditions, disabilities or other complex barriers to get back into work. Go get in contact with Remploy and let them help you gain the confidence you need. Or indeed try and seek another provider.

 

I really would suggest you use some kind of employment service to help you. I was the same as you, you think you have all the tools and all the knowledge to get a job but you deem yourself unlucky perhaps? Whether I'm right or wrong I have to be blunt and say this, you probably do not possess the knowledge for job applications that you think you do. You cannot only have 4 interviews in two years if your applications are spot on. Get a 2nd opinion which is a bit more objective, I'm sure they will find many ways to improve your applications etc. Message me in private and we'll see if we can swap our application forms and see what you can improve on?

 

This is why I highly recommend Remploy because they give you the skills but in a way that are actually useable, not like JCP who just throw the textbook at you and don't make knowledge applicable. I'm sorry if what I said seems harsh, it isn't meant nastily but I was exactly the same as you. And believe me, I was helped out an awful lot and that was with a dog awful reference from the company I worked for in 2007.

 

Have you looked at job trials as an alternative to interviews? Not that I'm a fan of them myself, I see it as total exploitation. But you may have different opinion/taste.

 

Sorry for long post, hope some of it is of help to you

Barry

[zenemu]

I will just add that many large employers also run the guaranteed interview scheme these days. If you inform them of your disability they you are guaranteed an interview. They may be able to make some adjustments at the interview too, but to be honest if you are looking at a call centre or some such then role play is going to be part of the interview and also part of the training.

 

To be honest the guaranteed interview scheme can work for you or against you too. My partner is a wheelchair user and she got an interview under this scheme with the local council a few years back. She went along, and the chap walked in, didn't bother to take his coat off, gave her a filthy look and said she would have to work on the top floor of the council offices, which don't have a lift and no reasonable adjustments could be made as it was a listed building. It upset her and was a waste of her time. Incidentally despite having two degree's and being a very intelligent and friendly person, it took over five years and 150 interviews to get a job. The job she has now pays less than £23,000 per year, she is way over qualified to do it and to top the cliche off, she works in the disability sector, something she never wanted to do, and she is 32 years old. Make of that what you will.

 

Zen

Edited May 24, 2010 by zenemu