anxiety separation

[denny]

hi, i am big problems with my 8yr old son who has AS, he has never liked going to school but has tolerated it,the problem is that we had the school holidays then went on holiday for 2 1/2 weeks, and ever since we came back he has refused it go anywhere without me,and going to school is a nightmare, every day he always has something wrong with him which we know is put on, itis just a ploy to get out of school, then when we get to school it takes at least 10 mins to get him out of the car, once we have acheived this we get to his classroom which he is like a clamp round my waist and has to be prised off me,all the time he is crying. as you can guess this is very disressing for both my son and me, we have tried all tactics being nice ,calm and resonable to being really hard on him, briberary, charts you name it we have tried it,

we were just wondering if anybody out there could give us some advice on where to go next

thanks

Denise

[BusyLizzie100]

hi, i am big problems with my 8yr old son who has AS, he has never liked going to school but has tolerated it,the problem is that we had the school holidays then went on holiday for 2 1/2 weeks, and ever since we came back he has refused it go anywhere without me,and going to school is a nightmare, every day he always has something wrong with him which we know is put on, itis just a ploy to get out of school, then when we get to school it takes at least 10 mins to get him out of the car, once we have acheived this we get to his classroom which he is like a clamp round my waist and has to be prised off me,all the time he is crying. as you can guess this is very disressing for both my son and me, we have tried all tactics being nice ,calm and resonable to being really hard on him, briberary, charts you name it we have tried it,

we were just wondering if anybody out there could give us some advice on where to go next

thanks

Denise

 

Hi Denise,

 

Firstly, does your son have a Statement? Does he have input from autism outreach? ~(In my area we have autism adivsory teachers that visit mainstream schools to give schools advice on individual pupils).

 

I would hazard a guess - and it can only be a guess, because I don't know your son - that he is experiencing a good deal of anxiety and that this is one of his ways of expressing it. I think you probably need some effective professional advice, eg from a child pyschologist, as to what is causing his anxiety and how best to help him with it. My son has experienced separation anxiety and it is, as you say, distressing for everyone.

 

Have you ever had input from CAMHS? They can differ wildly from area to area but a good CAMHS should have some expertise on children with AS/ASD. Another alternative is to ask for the Educational Psychologist to visit your son, if he/she hasn't already; if he/she already knows your son, it could helpful to ask for her continuing advice. I think the important thing is to find out what is making your son so anxious, which isn't always easy to identify, and he may not even know that himself.

 

Has the school tried social stories, eg explaining the process for coming in to school and perhaps another for describing what your son can do when he feels anxious (ie what strategies he can use or be supported with). This is where autism outreach could help, and fine tune the strategies to suit your son's individual need. It's probably going to be best to address the anxiety when he is calm, so at some other time during the day rather than first thing. What's he like when he comes out of school?

 

I don't think being hard on him when he is anxious will help him. My son, now nearly 13, tells me that it really doesn't help either when people tell him to calm down - he wants to be calm but doesn't know how to do it, what he needs is to be told HOW to do it!!!

 

My youngest son (also with AS) is currently having difficulty going in to school too, but instead of being anxious he is massively angry with everyone and everything. School has given him the strategy of going to the senco's room to read quietly for 5 mins before joining the lesson and I'm hoping to talk to the SENCO next week to see what else we can do. Sometimes giving the reluctant a special job to do first thing can help, like switching on the computers or something, not necessarily in his own classroom.

 

Sorry, have read this back and it sounds rather scatty - I am typing and fending off 3 kids at the same time - obviously my time is up!!!

 

hope that helps.

Lizzie x

 

Hi again, just editing to add: identifying if there are other things making him anxious (apart from separating from you), then giving him support at those other times may well have a knock-on effect on this particular situation. If you imagine that a typical person has anxiety levels that are knee-high, and that shoulder-high is the top limit, then your son's anxiety levels are probably already near shoulder-high so that when he is additionally anxious, ie when separating to go into school, he has no room left on the scale to deal with it. Whereas the typical person would still have space to deal with the additional anxiety. If his overall anxiety levels can be decreased, then he may be able to cope with the separation better too. Gawd, does that make any sense!!!! <'>

Edited October 10, 2010 by BusyLizzie100

[denny]

thanks for your reply, we have tried the social stories, but they do not work, my son hasn't been statemented because we didn't think he needed to be, we have been really lucky and haven't had any major problems with him until now, we have had the usual problems but nothing like this, that is probably why it has hit us so hard.

we have a really good camhs team and they are refering us to a child pycologist, so hopefully won't have to wait to long, and i am going to see the school senco tomorrow, so hopefully between us we can help him,

 

would the senco have all the information about the autism advisory teacher as i didn't know about them.

we have tried talking to him about school but all he says is that he doesn't want to leave me and that school is boring even the things we know he likes doing, he has even counted how many hours he is away from me and how far, so if i go anywhere i have to keep it quiet as he says that i am even further away,which distresses him even more.

talking to a friend who has am 18yr old with AS and who has been through it, she said that her son tended to get worse around the ages of 7=8 and upwards, as they are able to assert themselves more, i don't know if this is true or not, and this is a sign of things to come.

again thanks

Denise

Edited October 11, 2010 by denny

[zeldasmum]

My son is age 7 and is exactly the same.

 

He doesn't want to go to school because it is boring and he can't give me hugs all day. He has always been like this since nursery.

He even gives the house a hug when he gets home and says "my home I love my home"

 

I had a stomach bug last week and said dont come too close I don't want you to get it, his response was "Its OK I won't have to go to school"

 

Can't offer any help I could do with some myself, I do worry that as he gets older it is going to become even more of a problem.

[Karen A]

thanks for your reply, we have tried the social stories, but they do not work, my son hasn't been statemented because we didn't think he needed to be, we have been really lucky and haven't had any major problems with him until now, we have had the usual problems but nothing like this, that is probably why it has hit us so hard.

we have a really good camhs team and they are refering us to a child pycologist, so hopefully won't have to wait to long, and i am going to see the school senco tomorrow, so hopefully between us we can help him,

 

would the senco have all the information about the autism advisory teacher as i didn't know about them.

we have tried talking to him about school but all he says is that he doesn't want to leave me and that school is boring even the things we know he likes doing, he has even counted how many hours he is away from me and how far, so if i go anywhere i have to keep it quiet as he says that i am even further away,which distresses him even more.

talking to a friend who has am 18yr old with AS and who has been through it, she said that her son tended to get worse around the ages of 7=8 and upwards, as they are able to assert themselves more, i don't know if this is true or not, and this is a sign of things to come.

again thanks

Denise

 

Hi.It is worth asking the SENCO first for a referal to the ASD outreach team which would include a teacher.If the SENCO has not contacted them before you could also phone the Local Authority or Parent Partnership.

Karen.

[denny]

in a way its nice to know that we are not on our own, i have the same worries as you but i am hoping as he matures he will get better, even going out he is at my side like a limpet, thinking of you

[denny]

we have been to see the senco today, she couldn't offer any solutions as we have already tried them, but we did ask if she could contact the ASD outreach team { which i only found out from this forum} to see if they had any solutions,she said that it wouldnt be worth statementing him as he probably wouldn't get any more help as in the classroom he gets on with his work and isn't disruptive,so we will have to carry on until we get to see the psycologist.

 

Denise

[Clarkson]

Hi Denise

 

My heart goes out to you. I empathise. We met very similar challenges to you with our son Peter at that age. The culmination of the challenge was ‘expulsion’ from his school, a year out of school and eventually a placement at a school that could work with him successfully.

 

While things were particularly difficult we exhaustively explored what professional services could help but we found that the professional input we received was very disappointing. Many were well meaning but poorly informed. I was also horrified how judgemental some professionals were about mums of children with AS. Sadly some professionals still hold onto the outdated conception of the ‘refrigerator mother’. Getting a statement was a nightmare.

 

Eventually we gave up relying on the professional-amateurs and started to look for our own solutions.

 

I became one of those parents that ended up becoming a therapist because I could not find one who could offer the support my child required.

 

The turning point for us was using some very simple Cognitive Behaviour Strategies. When Peter learned to simply ‘stop and think’ and anticipate long term consequences his ability to manage anxiety greatly improved and his behaviour transformed within a few weeks.

 

I was so won over by CBT (quick, easy, safe and inexpensive) that I am now incorporating it into my own professional practice as a hypnotherapist. Now I am not suggesting CBT is a panacea. Every child, every family has different needs. But it might help.

 

One last thing I would say is in my professional experience one of the most important issues is not so much what support is available for the child but what support is available for the parent.My experience is that AS mum’s often heroic efforts to support their children can leave them exhausted, distressed, frustrated and disappointed. AS mums can often lose sight that sometimes they are the ones that need support even more than their child. Time and time again I have been overwhelmed by AS mums' compassionate selflessness in the care of their child. But I have also been saddened by the lack of support they are offered for their own personal wellbeing.

 

I do hope you find your turning point sooner than later. It can get better, much better. Sometimes it can be something very simple that can change lives.

 

Kind regards

 

Stephen

[BusyLizzie100]

The turning point for us was using some very simple Cognitive Behaviour Strategies. When Peter learned to simply ‘stop and think’ and anticipate long term consequences his ability to manage anxiety greatly improved and his behaviour transformed within a few weeks.

 

I was so won over by CBT (quick, easy, safe and inexpensive) that I am now incorporating it into my own professional practice as a hypnotherapist. Now I am not suggesting CBT is a panacea. Every child, every family has different needs. But it might help.

 

 

Hi Stephen, your comments about CBT are interesting. Is there a lower age limit at which point it isn't so effective, ie do children have to be at a certain point in their development before CBT works?

 

I ask because my son (12yrs with AS) had CBT because of his extensive anxieties, and it doesn't seem to have helped. He was very good at the clinical discourse, but when anxiety-provoking situations occurred he couldn't put the strategies into use and would quickly become hysterical. He still does.

 

Lizzie x

[denny]

i found your letter really interesting , as today we had thw worst day possible day which resulted in us going to pick him up from school literally minutes after we dropped him off and we have to see the head teacher tomorrow to put a plan in motion,this was the worst we have ever seen him, but when we picked him up it was as if nothing had happened , he just sat in the car chatting whilst i was in tears at the side of him.

I too would be interested in what the minumum age is of when he could have CBT, i do realise that this isn't a magic wand and every child is different, what may work for one child may not work for another.

Do you have to be refered by your GP or can you go privately as we would give anything a try.

 

Denise

[Karen A]

we have been to see the senco today, she couldn't offer any solutions as we have already tried them, but we did ask if she could contact the ASD outreach team { which i only found out from this forum} to see if they had any solutions,she said that it wouldnt be worth statementing him as he probably wouldn't get any more help as in the classroom he gets on with his work and isn't disruptive,so we will have to carry on until we get to see the psycologist.

 

Denise

 

Hi Denise.

It may be worth ensuring your child is on the SEN register at School Action or Action plus.Also that the school has a current IEP and keeps it up to date over the coming months.Even if school do not currently think a Statement is needed the situation may change.If school or yourself wanted to request a Statutary Assessment then evidence would be required that sustantial support had already ben put in place at School Action Plus with little impact.So it is worth keeping up to date with IEPS to gather evidence.

Karen.

[Karen A]

i found your letter really interesting , as today we had thw worst day possible day which resulted in us going to pick him up from school literally minutes after we dropped him off and we have to see the head teacher tomorrow to put a plan in motion,this was the worst we have ever seen him, but when we picked him up it was as if nothing had happened , he just sat in the car chatting whilst i was in tears at the side of him.

I too would be interested in what the minumum age is of when he could have CBT, i do realise that this isn't a magic wand and every child is different, what may work for one child may not work for another.

Do you have to be refered by your GP or can you go privately as we would give anything a try.

 

Denise

 

CAMHS do offer talking therapy.They would assess and decide what they can offer.A GP or SENCO can usually do a referal.Do try the NHS first because private theapy is expensive.ASD outreach sometimes offer support similar to CBT although they don't call it that...in practice it is very similar.The psychologist may well have ideas as to who to suggest too.

 

If you find that you cannot get your child to school then the EWO may also be helpful.

Please do keep working on taking your son to school.

 

We had similar problems with our elder [NT]son was in year 6.We ended up in a pattern where he would have a panic attack and not get to school or he would get to school but then be sent home because he was so anxious.It was very stressful.However when he stayed at home it became more difficult to get him back.In the end he was off for much of his last term at school.When he started at Secondary he got anxious again.He was helped a lot by a CAMHS psychologist and is fine now several years later.

However i now realise I should have been more assertive with school because in taking him home each time school called we just increased the chance of the same thing happening.

 

Is there anything at school that could be making things stressful such as bullying or a new teacher that your child does not get along with ?

I just wonder what has changed since the summer ?

Did you take your son out for two and a half weeks in September in term time for the holiday ?

 

Karen.

Edited October 14, 2010 by Karen A

[BusyLizzie100]

Hi Denise,

 

do you think your son could benefit from in-school counselling?

 

Some schools buy into and some don't. My youngest son's school is able tap into a counselling service that is bought in through the extended schools consortium, ie the extended schools pays for it and schools can apply for it and don't have to pay. Counselling can vary, but this particular one is very much like play therapy and is totally child-led, ie there is no agenda apart from what the child brings. The counsellor comes to the school once a week and it's totally confidential.

 

My eldest son's school buys in counselling from a different source, which tends to be shorter-term (six weeks) and targets specific issues, eg anger management, and uses specific materials to work through a programme. This has been suggested for my eldest son, who suffers enormous anxieties, but I don't feel it's appropriate. The first kind sounds much better, I've spoken to them and they do secondary schools too, it just depends on the school as to which, if any, service they use.

 

So even if your son's school doesn't 'do' counselling, it doesn't mean it has to be ruled out. If you think it might be beneficial, try contacting the LA and find out what's available in your area...

 

Lizzie x

[denny]

we have had a meeting with the head teacher today and thomas's teacher, also the teacher he will be going up to next school year, it was a really positive meeting and they are putting alot of stratagies into place including getting someone that he can go to first thing in the morning when i leave him which is the worse time, they have also talked about the six week counselling you talked about, so i think the school are doing as much as they can at this stage, and we felt as if we had alot of support from them , they are setting up safe places for him to go and sit if it gets to much for him.

so thankfully i feel everything is being done for us at this stage, and we are still waiting on our appointment with the psycologist.

itis the weekend now so we are just going to try and enjoy it,and not think about monday until we have to,

thanks for everybodies help, it has really helped knowing that there are people out there who can help

 

Denise

Edited October 15, 2010 by denny

[BusyLizzie100]

we have had a meeting with the head teacher today and thomas's teacher, also the teacher he will be going up to next school year, it was a really positive meeting and they are putting alot of stratagies into place including getting someone that he can go to first thing in the morning when i leave him which is the worse time, they have also talked about the six week counselling you talked about, so i think the school are doing as much as they can at this stage, and we felt as if we had alot of support from them , they are setting up safe places for him to go and sit if it gets to much for him.

so thankfully i feel everything is being done for us at this stage, and we are still waiting on our appointment with the psycologist.

itis the weekend now so we are just going to try and enjoy it,and not think about monday until we have to,

thanks for everybodies help, it has really helped knowing that there are people out there who can help

 

Denise

 

That does sound quite promising! I'm glad the meeting went well. <'>

 

Have a lovely relaxing weekend.

Lizzie x

[Karen A]

That does sound positive.

I hope you have a good weekend.

Karen.

[Clarkson]

Hi Stephen, your comments about CBT are interesting. Is there a lower age limit at which point it isn't so effective, ie do children have to be at a certain point in their development before CBT works?

 

I ask because my son (12yrs with AS) had CBT because of his extensive anxieties, and it doesn't seem to have helped. He was very good at the clinical discourse, but when anxiety-provoking situations occurred he couldn't put the strategies into use and would quickly become hysterical. He still does.

 

Lizzie x

 

 

Hi Lizzie.

 

Interesting question. Is there a lower age limit at which point it isn't so effective? I have never heard a particular lower age or developmental point cited. Different professionals are likely to have their own criteria. IQ can be relevant. And so can 'demand avoidance'.

 

I would also add a lot of the time the most important factor in any therapy (and this is research proven) is the relationship between the therapist and client...rather than the type of therapy per se. My experience is that if a child on the spectrum does not very quickly trust and accept the therapist the outlook for a good therapeutic alliance is not so good.

 

And sometimes the best therapist is actually the carer. I have currently been reflecting on the potential of coaching parents to facilitate CBT to their own children. I am aware some parents have implemented their own programmes based on the self help books by Dr Tony Attwood (Exporing feelings, Cognitive Behaviour Therapy to Manage Anxiety). Trouble is that the books are a bit sketchy and if you have not got a grasp of CBT basics a reader might feel a bit lost without some good advice.

 

Before I sign off I would just like to reflect on your son's age. Often AS + puberty = ANXIETY! Even children who have settled down can have anxiety relapses at this age. It's a tough phase, but it most probably will come to pass.

 

Also before I forget one particular challenge for therapy with AS is that it can be difficult for an individual with AS to export skills learnt in a clinic or classroom to the outside world. For example I have heard a of one child who could tell the time on a clock in his bedroom, but not in the living room. Sometimes this means that therapy has to be done in each new environment.

 

 

Stephen

Edited October 18, 2010 by Clarkson

[Karen A]

Hi Stephen, your comments about CBT are interesting. Is there a lower age limit at which point it isn't so effective, ie do children have to be at a certain point in their development before CBT works?

 

I ask because my son (12yrs with AS) had CBT because of his extensive anxieties, and it doesn't seem to have helped. He was very good at the clinical discourse, but when anxiety-provoking situations occurred he couldn't put the strategies into use and would quickly become hysterical. He still does.

 

Lizzie x

 

Hi.

Ben had individual psychotherapy with CAMHS for three years every week.He gained a lot from the therapy.He relates extremely well with adults in a one to one situation.

 

However he also found it difficult to use the information and experience gained in psychotherapy in situations which occurr with his peers.An ASD outreach teacher is now supporting him with these.

 

I think that CBT is more likely to be helpful if it is provided with an ASD perspective,from a professional with awareness and with specific support to practice in specific situations.

 

In the lengthy thread about Social Skills there was a similar debate about whether people with ASD can use Social Skills learned in a theoretical situation in real life without specific practice and support.