Bullying by Religious Group

[Lyndalou]

Sorry that this spiel will be a bit long but I am unsure if this topic has been addressed before??

 

I have been doing a lot of thinking (as you do) about the past in view of finding out (I believe) that I have AS. I have held the belief for a long time that my difficulties with relationships came about as a result of 3 distinct periods of being ostracised by groups of people in my pre-teens and teens. Now though, it seems pretty clear to me that the first time I was ostracised at age 10 by my classmates was because of something I did or said as a result of having AS. The feeling of 'What did I do?' has stuck with me over the years and I did not allow myself to show anger in front of people for a long time because I remember thinking that being angry had something to do with what happened. Here began my bizarre avoidance tactics.

 

I was brought up as a born-again Christian by my parents and I was the eldest child. My parents were very proud of my talents and abilities and expected great things of me so I didn't want to let them down and never spoke to them about the problems I had. In a way, I believe now that I was buffered from the full extent of feeling different and being bullied because during my childhood and teens I had my church friends and my faith and I believed I was MEANT to feel different to people outside the church.

 

I was 12 when my parents decided to leave our mainstream church and along with another couple they set up an independent pentecostal house church. Over time the church attracted more members leading to us no longer meeting in each other's homes and moving into rented premises. The friends we as a family had at the mainstream church coldshouldered us for many years and although I found this very upsetting, again I thought that if it was 'God's Will' then it had to be so. I was very close to the other couple who set up the church with my parents and I viewed the other teens in this church as my best friends.

 

For those of you who don't know, the Pentecostal take on things is that everything written in the Bible is God's word in the literal sense and that God speaks to people directly and through prophets, pastors and teachers. Pentecostals also believe in speaking in tongues (a direct communication with God) and healing. You are 'called on' to fulfil certain roles so my dad was a teacher and my mum ran the youth group. The other couple fulfilled the roles of Pastor and prophetess. I never ever (at the time) questioned these beliefs as they were normal to me and in all honesty, although for the sake of my sanity I gave up my faith at 22 because I couldn't stand the hypocrisy within the church any longer, the core principles of the faith have kept me strong, even when I felt I was losing my mind at many times in my 20's especially.

 

Anyway, there's the background...

 

The thing is, the more I think about it and talk to my parents (mum especially) about how she feels and note the sad lack of anyone just 'dropping in' to see them, I have drawn the conclusion that they both have a number of AS traits. I decided a long time ago that I didn't want to end up as lonely (and pretending not to bother) as my dad and this has spurred me on to make an effort with friendships.

 

I am also now wondering if those traits (and my own) were interpreted as strange by others within the church and the wider Independent church community we were in touch with by my mid teens. My parents (especially my dad) started to be routinely 'hauled over the coals' by the leadership by the time I was 16. Our Pastor claimed that God had told him in visions of various things my dad was wrong about, including (most damagingly and completely without basis) that my dad had sexually abused me and that this was the main reason we had a close dad/daughter bond. I was so confused and angry that my family were being accused of all sorts but I was in complete conflict as these things things were being levelled at us by a man that I trusted and believed in. I also had difficulty questioning something that my Pastor said came straight from God! I still also had to be a smiling representative of my faith to other people...

 

All our friends turned against us as we did not 'repent' of the things we were accused of and in my late teens we were told to leave and were accepted to attend a sister church in another town until such time as we recognised our wrong-doing. This, of course, magnified the sense that I was always wrong and not good enough. In time, the accusations came to include my mum being possessed by the Jezebel spirit (this was a popular spirit to be possessed by in the late 80's/early 90's, lol) as she was trying to lead young boys in the youth group astray and I was possessed by a hysterical spirit.

 

It's not that I can laugh necessarily about all this stuff now but I look back and I do think 'What the...?' There's no point in dwelling too much on it any more (I've spent ridiculous amounts of time doing that over the years already) but I can accept that it has all obviously impacted on how I see the world and the people in it.

 

I wonder... does this type of thing (or something similar) happen more often than you'd think to families with AS traits/AS? I can only think that it would be most likely to happen in religious/faith settings or cults where there is very little room for manoevre on what is right or wrong or where the beliefs to people outside the group may seem to make no sense but are actually very black and white within the group itself.

[Tally]

I went to a similar-sounding Church aged 12-19. I do think that AS is one of many things that may make a person vulnerable to being taken in by a religious cult - in my case probably the main factor.

 

I was only just popping on briefly but I will come back to this and say more later.

[baddad]

Hi Lindylou -

 

I think you're probably over-generalising your own experiences and your suspicions that you might have AS and/or that your parents might have 'traits'.

As Tally has said, all sorts of things can make people vulnerable to the kinds of emotional coercion practised in 'cult' or fundamentalist religions. Some of those things could apply to autism, but would apply equally to non-autistic people who were emotionally vulnerable (feeling 'lost' or confused or lonely, unhappy etc etc) or felt a need to 'belong'. For some autistic people, the very fact of being part of a group or belonging could actually be a disincentive.

Being born into an environment where fundamentalism was the norm would almost certainly be influential - in fact 'escape' would be the exception rather than the rule if wider influences were kept at bay or always demonised. It's not indicative of 'black and white' thinking - it's an environmental norm that is only drawn in black and white, iyswim.

There was a horrifying programme on recently with Louis Theroux visiting American fundamentalists who were quite literally pedalling hatred in the name of God. Even those who had been rejected by the community still wanted back in, and still couldn't see the contradiction inherent in the idea of a 'merciful god' wanting acts of hatred perpetrated in his name. A 'black and white' thinker would see that contradiction, I think, but having said that I guess the power of religious indoctrination is that the inconsistencies can always be explained either as 'god working in mysterious ways' and/or as a test of faith.

 

As long as there are vulnerable people other people will take adavantage of them. Whether doing so by claiming to know the word of God, or thorugh spritualism, Tarot cards, reiki healing, crystals, or any other of the increasing number of varieties of 'woooo' that now exist (including some that apply more directly to autism and are pedalled as 'cures'), it is vulnerability that determines the abusers from the abused, and while people with ASD's can certainly be vulnerable they are certainly not alone in that, and the way vulnerability manifests in them is probably as diverse as for any other vulnerable group within our society.

 

L&P

 

BD

[sesley]

what a terrible time you have had. I believe we are all different as human beings. It does annoy me that religion is used to expalin differences/disabilites. Be sure of one thing autism is mostly inherited,so if your parents have the same difficulites as you,its not their faults either.Actaully proberly those religious people you have mixed with are proberly somehow mentally disfunctional anyway. Maybe you should get yourself away from relgion for a while and live in a secular world with no religous constraints on you.Apart from the usual rights from wrong rules that are recognised by UK law. basically get out in the world and see what life is really like and learn how other people live and work etc. Mix in with different people and see if you can make friends with lots of people.

[Sally44]

I've attended a number of churches over the years, depending on where I lived.

As you say, there was a definate movement towards "house churches" in the 1980's/90's.

I don't think that being on the spectrum would make you more or less likely to become involved.

 

As you say it is difficult to challenge anyone that says they speak "the word of God"!

It is also a shame that there seems to be these offshoots from other Churches.

 

I did attend a lovely Methodist Church. Then I separated from my husband and it became impossible to keep attending that Church, especially as he and his family had always attended there. No-one actually excommunicated me. I just felt too awkward to attend.

 

There are other Churches you could try if you wished.

 

There are many different types of 'groups' or 'gatherings' religious or not that are around. Nowadays everyone seems acquainted, but no one is a friend.

 

I think the type of Church your parents moved to would have segregated them from other people who would have considered them weird. And the things you have posted sound bizarre to you let alone anyone else. But i've come across it myself. Usually by people who profess to be "servants of God", but who actually want the glory and self praise for themselves. They are not true servants are they - they try to make themselves appear better and more special than anyone else because they say God has chosen them.

 

You can use similar arguments about soldiers that come out of the army and end up homeless on the streets. Sometimes it is that high level of organisation, routine and structure that had that they needed and outside in the real world they cannot do it as a single person, but can function as part of an organisation.

[Tally]

I can't really remember what I was going to say now other than that I can relate to so many things you've said. But that's not really what you're asking about.

 

I do think that religious cults can be appealing to people who are vulnerable for all sorts of reasons. In the Church I went to, I remember many of the other kids being victims of bullying and some coming from seriously messed up homes. I don't really remember many who strike me as perhaps having ASD. There was one leader in the Youth Group though, but he was very much liked despite seeming a little odd. And a couple who attended the Church had a young son who looking back I now suspect had ASD - but he was not attracted to the Church in his own right, he just attended because his parents brought him.

 

In my case the AS is probably what made me vulnerable, and what attracted me to people who seemed so accepting of me. We were also discouraged from socialising outside of the Church, and warned that we would face persecution for our faith, so when I was unable to make friends in school (and later on in work) I just thought it was because I wasn't trying. I didn't need to anyway because I already had all the social contact I needed from the Church and associated social activities.

 

The very clear, strict rules may appeal to someone with ASD, but I think many teenagers would be attracted to this too, especially if their parents did not agree! With all the confusion of my teenage years it was very reassuring to see my future mapped out for me and to know how my adult life would be.

 

As for the excommunication/scapegoating-type issues, I really can't see how ASD would make a person more vulnerable to that. They need to pick on someone to scare the others into complying. They will pick on anyone if they can twist something minor into making them look bad. I suppose being a little odd might attract that kind of attention, I don't know. I voluntarily left my Church and looking back I can now see I was starting to be targeted. But the reasons were nothing to do with my ASD and more to do with doing stuff that was genuinely not acceptable to them.

[Kathryn]

That's a horrible experience for you and your family to have gone through, Lyndalou. I just want to say that I belong to a church (fairly ordinary mainstream C of E) which is not in any way like the kind of community you and Tally describe, I'm glad to say - although it's by no meands perfect!

 

I think in some cases vulnerable and marginalised people may be drawn to fundamentalist communities and cults where they find security in the structure,a high degree of acceptance and an immediate sense of belonging. It is comforting- in a way- to be able to live one's life according to absolute certainties: being told what to do and how to think, and there are plenty of manipulative individuals ready to exploit that natural desire for security.

 

I don't think people with AS are any more vulnerable than anyone else to the kind of experience you describe- simply because they have AS. The desire for "black and white" structure may be attractive to some, but others may be equally repelled by the social aspect and pressure to conform. It's simply too diverse a group to generalise. If it is possible to generalise,I think young people i.e. teens, early twenties, are possibly the most vulnerable and the most targeted group, for various reasons.

 

K x

[Lyndalou]

It was really interesting to read all your comments which has helped me put my thoughts a little more into context. I probably was over-generalising about my own experience because I do understand that any number of people could be bullied or marginalised in this type of church setting and in fact, a number of the people who I counted as friends in those days, within the church, came from troubled backgrounds or very different backgrounds to me. I very seldom come across people nowadays who say they have had a similar negative experience but I suppose that I generally don't advertise it either so it's good to get the chance to air the subject.

 

Having pretty much exorcised my demons with regard to this period of my life (so to speak) it just struck me that in light of the fact that AS has now come into the equation that it may have had something to do with how my parents clashed with the Pastor, who had after all been their friend for a number of years. Of course, again in retrospect, I can see that they weren't the first people to come into conflict with him and his wife and often my parents would actually have agreed with them and backed them up. Normally, the person or persons in question would just have left the church. It doesn't sit well with me to say that because I know that at the time my parents would have acted with the best of intentions and are not 'bad' people but I know that the decisions they made at that time may also have affected others adversely.

 

I have met a lot of lovely people over the years with different denominational persuasions and I truly believe that everyone has the right to worship how they see fit but my opinion (as it seems is everyone else's) is that there is more of a danger of leaders acting in a dictatorial way within Independent Pentecostal churches. I think Sally hit the nail on the head by saying that sometimes they just want glory and people to look up to them and people go along with what they say because they are frightened of questioning a 'Servant of God' - my ex-Pastor built a very nice house with the money he received through tithes (offerings) but my understanding is that no-one challenged him about this as God must have been involved somewhere in the decision to build the house!

 

I did see the Louis Theroux documentary and I found it extremely sad that anyone could spew such hatred and believe that this was in any way acceptable but I suppose that it also proves the point that a philosophy that can be used for the good by some people 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you' can be successfully twisted around into something quite disgusting and if people question it then THEY are in the wrong.

 

Sorry that this has ended up being quite tenously linked to ASD's!

[Joels_mum]

I think people with ASC can find comfort in the narrowly structured thought processes and routines of cults and high control groups, although that doesn't mean that their involvement is harmless - far from it. I've had a fair bit of experience of both (cults and autism).

 

When you leave a high control group, it can be difficult to unravel who you truly are and which parts are the cult imposed identity. I would highly recommend you do some reading; try Combatting Cult Mind Control and Releasing The Bonds, both books by Steve Hassan.

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Combating-Cult-Mind-Control-Best-selling/dp/0892813113

 

This is Steve's website: http://freedomofmind.com/ There are resources to help people deal with the psychological fallout of all sorts of different high control groups.

Edited May 15, 2011 by Joels_mum

[Lyndalou]

Thanks Joels Mum

 

I'll take a look a Steve Hassan's website. Although I've worked things through a lot, you're right, it's all there inside my head still and it would be helpful to delve a little deeper.

 

x

[philipo]

i think its inevitable that undiagnosed autys/asd rs will be strongly attracted to religion,after all be ing aware that somthing is wrobg mentally and getting no help from the doctors will naturally lead people to find a faith or creed/beleif system that makes them feel better.I'm not knocking religion but it allows people to be irrational and interpret the bible etc as the see fit.To be an undiagnosed auty in a church full of evangelicals really does make the autys feel normal ,especially when the others start speaking in tongues and enthusing their christain experienance.I occasionnaly go to a church,evangelical charismatics supposedly,but why i get out of it is a feeling of calmness and peace from the other church members allowing me to sit and pray and sing with them,its better than any nhs drug treatment,and thats the key,being with other people however wacky they are and feeling safe and unthreatend.religously i'm really a heretic when judged by most christian values.I'm an animist who belives this world is Eden (or hell,if we so choose) and that gods very probably a woman and the bible is a misfit collecton of very unreliable books and that eternal life is aload of bkkllkkkkks as life is called here and now.Yeah logically religion and jesus does'nt add up and you easiliy pick wholes in the absurdity of religions but what is the most powerfull and universal force is FAITH,in the simple things of care,love and empathy and no religion can own that because its within us.Thast the faith and love and care that people use when they write and post on this site thats the empathy and positives of bitter experience they want to share with others to help them ,and it all exists wether religion is tru or not.Just be carefull not to get lost in a bi polar debate ..i.e.god does or does'nt exist,,,good versus evil,,,eternal life or spitiual damnation,there's only nature and love but some churches and goverments and tv channels are all too ready to fill your head full of shhht just to manipulate and control you,being an aware auty/asd'r you are acyually given a higher awareness to realise this,just keep loving and keep your faith in the beauty of the world and the 'god' will always be there.Last year I became homeless and hd to que up in soup kitchens with mostly horrible alkies and drug addicts and 10 pound prostitutes.After getting some found this religous group came over and started trying to save my soul!!!There patter was along the lines of ' Jesus can save you from alchoholism ,as your obviously a sinner cos your homless'.I told them I did'nt drink.They then started telling me how their church could save my sinning soul from drugs and I told em I don't do drugs.They were baffled and I told them to understand Autisim /aspies etc a little more but mentally they were too stupid ,which is why they spent their time like vampires ,sucking the souls of the mostly drunk or drugged up homeless.So remember BE VERY WARY of religous nutters as they will mostly abuse you fro their own selfish egotistical ends.But keep the faith of love and light.