Please could I ask a few questions?

[echelon]

I would be interested to know what people would think about some stuff. I'm not into 'internet diagnoses', but would appreciate it if you read this all the same.

 

Are people with aspergers able to 'read' others or are they totally unable to? I'm 41 and all my life I have avoided social interaction and just seem to have no real interest in other people. I prefer being by myself or just to remain with my husband and children. I have some social phobia, but it's more than that, it's just no interest in others. I find them boring and irritating and I can't relate to them. I sometimes find others threatening. I have no need for a social life and never go to parties or meetups. The thoughts of them turn me cold.

 

I am able to go through the motions of being sociable when I need to be and I can empathise with people if they're upset or something. I am good at interpreting others body language and emotions. I hate smalltalk and never socialise outside of work. I can't stand being in social situations. I avoid crowded places and will always gravitate towards quiet things and empty places given half the chance.

 

I can only cope with work because my workplace is predictable and there is very little deviation from the routine. I am a nurse so manage to 'hide' behind my uniform. Colleagues know very little of the real me. I get on well with them and am popular, but I usually feel that I'm putting on an act when at work. Take me out of uniform and I clam up like a shell. I feel uncomfortable and unsure of myself. I chose nursing delibrately so that I could have an occupation where I wouldn't have to be myself, but instead step inside a role and kind of hide behind that. I only realised this a few years ago.

 

I have been like this all my life, even as a very young child.

 

Am I just antisocial or does this sound familiar? My eldest son has some aspergers traits and also has adhd. I've always believed that I couldn't have aspergers because I can communicate okay providing I'm making the effort. I just feel that I'm a constant outsider looking in.

 

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[SimonJC]

Do you suffer with repetitive or restricted interests? This is I'm told, one of the criteria for ASD diagnosis, along with the social issues and the need for routine you already described.

 

I'm in a slightly similar position, although I'm actually in the process of seeking diagnosis. It's very easy to self diagnose, indeed I'm told that there is a propensity for sufferers to "Look up" their symptoms.

 

I, like yourself, find myself trapped outside of the real world, although it sometimes seems as though I'm inside a giant bubble instead. I spend literally hours daydreaming and have trouble sleeping because of it.

 

However, my social problems aren't that I don't want to mix with people, far from it. I like being around people, it makes me feel safe. I just find it very difficult to mix because I feel that I can't relate to people, or that they overlook me because of my awkwardness. I have an IQ of 137, so I can't be stupid, but yet sometimes I find it difficult to follow some of the simplest tasks.

 

With regards to "Reading" people, people with ASDs are said to appear lacking in empathy. In reality, it's believed that they are actually OVER empathetic. A friend of mine describes it as being a "Mood sponge", where they feel the emotions of others. It may be that this is why it feels like you would know how a person is feeling.

 

Hope that helps, although I'm sure that others will know a lot more than me.

[Tally]

Hello, and welcome to the forum.

 

People with Asperger's do have deficits with social skills, but certainly do not have a complete lack of them. We can also learn new skills, although we do tend to intellectualise them rather than do them naturally. Being able to socialise does not rule out Asperger's, especially since you have to put so much effort into it.

 

I think all people put on an act to a certain extent. People can be very professional in work, but very different at home. The way you have to communicate in work, with colleagues and patients, is quite different to a night out. There are quite clear rules about how to communicate in work which might be easier for a person with Asperger's to understand. I've always found I manage well with customers in work as the conversations are almost scripted. I know how to approach a customer, appear friendly, and say, "can I help you?" This is very different to approaching a stranger in a pub and striking up a conversation.

 

I think your best bet for now is to look a little more into Asperger's and see if it still makes sense. If you do have good empathy and ability to read body language, this might rule out a diagnosis of Asperger's. But if you do have other traits, then you may find that speaking to people with Asperger's can offer you strategies to cope with them.

[echelon]

Hi, thank you both for your replies.

 

I don't know whether I have restricted interests. I do music and like visiting the countryside. I'm not overfocused or obsessive about anything in particular, but I do get very stressed if the house is a mess and tend to clean stuff over and over again. I go to the same places all the time and avoid busy times so that I don't have to come across too many people. I do need structure and routine. I tend to do the same things at the same time each day. I hate chaos, but I'm a bit more spontaneous than my husband. I like my home, but often suffer from cabin fever.

 

Perhaps I just really detest social situations

[Tanya52]

Hello and welcome,

 

Unlike you I struggle to read body language and even some linguistic cues like intonation and indirect language puzzle me, though, 5 years I've been studying language and communication. I think it’s because I’m unable to process communication as multi-module information in real time. However I can imitate and learn how people feel by copying them, well, when I chose to. I don’t think that something wrong with it because it’s the only strategy I have and it works for me.

 

 

I learnt many important bits about politeness and presuppositions and linguistic strategies like indirectness or conversational structure. So, I’ve managed to attack my problems scientifically and built some basic strategies to tackle some of the most inconvenient and annoying repetitions of my own behaviour.

 

Like you I used to think that small talks are boring and was unable to appreciate them. In fact, nothing in small talks is simple or boring. It is the precise opposite - complex and sophisticated games of power sharing/rebalance, intimacy or, sometimes phishing for info and so on. Every small talk has its design and goal/goals. I can’t handle it in real time but I have a good memory and work with everything at home to prepare myself to the next instalments. Fortunately the social repertoire is finite and there are some strong conventions, which I’m able to observe with the right set of tools.

[baddad]

Hi Echelon -

I think feeling 'like an outsider looking in' is something almost everyone feels, autistic, NT or otherwise. Some people are gregarious, outgoing, socially adept, others are quiet, introverted, socially withdrawn or 'lone wolves'. The latter is not a description of autism or AS...

 

I think the degree to which people want to / need to socialise can and does vary depending on circumstances and it changes and evolves over time. Similarly some people want to be /need to be the 'life and soul' with lots and lots of friends/acquaintances while others prefer to remain intimate just with those who are significant to them - immediate family and/or maybe 1 or 2 close friends 9or even just 'friends' prefering 'close' just for the former...)

 

Autism, even AS or HFA is, by definition, a disability, it is not a preference or a lifestyle choice, and it's not something that can be 'turned off' if circumstances demand or selectively over-ridden by choice - i.e. choosing to 'do' or 'not do' social depending on personal interest in the event on offer. That doesn't mean that autistic people won't be more inclined to stretch themselves or go out of their comfort zone to do something they like (or even to do something they don't like if they think it neccessary or a reasonable adjustment to make for others etc etc), but in the simplest terms if they are not in some way disabled by the effects of their condition - i.e. incapable of doing or severely challenged in achieving things that non-autistic people can achieve or are not severely challenged by then they cannot be autistic in the medical sense of the term.

In the past decade or so there has been a huge shift in the meaning of what autism - especially AS - is thought to mean and a corresponding growth in casual self diagnosis (and apparently very woolly 'official' diagnosis). Proposed changes in DSMV will undoubtedly muddy the waters further in that regard, until the catchism 'we're all on the spectrum somewhere' becomes medically accurate, but I think that's going to have a hugely detrimental effect on the way people genuinely disabled by the effects of autism are perceived and treated. In fact, I think that shifts already started to happen...

 

Obviously, neither I nor anyone else here could hazzard a guess as to whether you are autistic or not, but it is accurate to say that if anyone looks at specific aspects of their behaviour they can find 'traits' of autistic behaviour - because autistic behaviours are perfectly 'normal' human behaviours. The difference is in degree, and if you take something like mental health it would be equally reasonable to say that, in our own ways, we are all 'a bit mad'. Unless there's a huge shift in public perception about mental health issues, though, I guess we won't get many people self diagnosing, casually diagnosing or going out of their way to achieve a diagnosis of 'mentally ill', which would be the disabling end of a 'we're all a bit mad' spectrum or continuum.

 

Hope that's helpful, and that you'll appreciate I'm not making any sort of 'judgement' about you (or anyone else) personally. I'm just trying to put your question into a more realistic context, which is 'do you think I might be disabled?'

 

L&P

 

BD

[bid]

Hi Echelon,

 

I was diagnosed with AS when I was 41. Another question to consider is what your parents have to say about your childhood and adolescence? Did they have concerns about your development? Certainly for most??/any?? NHS referred assessment you will need to have parental input. I'm not sure what happens with private assessments.

 

It turned out my mum had always had concerns about me, and it was quite an upsetting experience listening to her talk about me as a child.

 

Bid

[sesley]

I am awkward in social conditions .I like lots of time to my self. I don't like to be cuddled because i feel restricted,but i can cuddle and hug my children. I hate my face being covered.I don't get jokes very well and Have been very shy at times.I Have to make a great effort to interact with others. I find it hard to empathise with others partiucalry over grief from a deat. I like rules, i like routines. I get lost when i am in unfamiliar places.I can't do eye contact when i speak to people i look towards them like their foreheads or the picture directly behind them and hope they don't notice the lack of eye contact. I find sarcasm hard to get as well and can't tell if someone is winding me up or is serious. I can't read maths problems i panic when i get mental arithmatic to do ,so i love tescos checkouts because it tells me the change to give and panic when it goes out to quick. I Know i am like my son of 11 with ASD.But i don't think i will bother finding a diagnosis.I just empathise with him and try to help him as much as i can.

[Sally44]

As BD says there is a wide spectrum of NT behaviour/personalities ranging from extrovert to introvert.

 

The same applies to those on the spectrum. It is possible to be an extrovert child with aspergers and still "not get" the social communication, facial expression, gestures, jokes, sarcasm etc. Maybe someone like Temple Grandin who actually achieved remarkable things because she does have enough skills to get out there and work in a very male dominated environment, and also talks and lectures about ASD. But she recognised when she was still a child that she would never have certain skills that other children had. She knew other had those skills and she knew she did not and would never be like them. At the other extreme you could also have a very introverted ASD child that did not want to socialise at all. Those are different personalities, but both have social communication and interaction difficulties.

 

The difference between the NT and ASD spectrum of personalities, I think, is probably going to boil down to the speech and language and social communication that those on the spectrum simply do not get. There is also problems with theory of mind, there can be obsessions or restrictive/repetitive behaviours [but some NTs have this too]. And there is usually some kind of sensory processing difficulties ranging from mild to severe. There is also usually difficulties with imagination for those on the spectrum. It maybe pervasive, or the person may have imagination in their areas of interest, but not at all in other areas.

 

There are some NT adults who prefer their own company and/or feel shy or overwhelmed at large gatherings. But that isn't ASD. ASD is much more than that. As others on the spectrum themselves have said, it is a combination of difficulties and the extent of them. Some people will be on the spectrum in some areas, but may have it so mildly that they are never going to get an actual diagnosis.

 

For myself I have alot of sensory issues. I have an auditory processing disorder. I zone out and appear deaf alot. But I don't have the speech and language and social communication difficulties or problems with theory of mind.

 

For an actual diagnosis there has to be significant difficulties in a number of different areas (DSM IV criteria).

 

I was talking with my older brother recently. He has a thing about bottle,jar tops. He can spend alot of time opening and closing the lids. He does this alot, and even more when stressed. We talked about whether this is maybe bordering OCD, or is it repetitive behaviour ASD. He says himself that he gets "stuck in the loop" of repetitively opening and closing the lids. He got a scholarship as a child for his mathematics abilities. But was not the same with english language. He has a very high powered job in computer programming, which is very well paid. But he has been passed over for promotion a number of times because they say he lacks the "people" skills. He also has severe anxiety about anything unexpected or out of routine. He may have one foot in the Aspergers, or may have enough for a diagnosis, but he's not going to seek one. He's doing okay.

 

So you may need to sit down and have a bit of a think about what you think the cause of your behaviours or feelings are. Social phobia seems to suggest that socially you were okay before you acquired the "phobia", and that if treated you would be cured of it. If it is anxiety about social gatherings because you struggle with the language, comprehension, subtle gestures and voice tone, take things literally, seem to say or do the wrong thing, seem to be going through life without knowing the rules [when everyone else seems to know them]. Then that is not social phobia. That is anxiety that has a base in real difficulties.

Edited June 12, 2011 by Sally44

[SimonJC]

I think the debate on whether one should seek a diagnosis and the reasons for doing so will always be a controversial one. The guidelines state that an ASD diagnosis should only be given where there the condition has a negative impact on the sufferers life. I myself am seeking diagnosis because firstly, I feel my lack of concentration is affecting my abilty to work properly and could potentially be a risk to myself or others, and secondly, because of the immense stress I feel under and my inability to deal with it. Are these two points enough to justify my seeking diagnosis? I'm sure not everyone would agree.

Edited June 12, 2011 by SimonJC