Proposed Changes to Diagnostic Criteria for ASD

[Monkeypuzzle123]

Hi I am new.

 

I don't know if anyone is aware about the proposed changes to the diagnosing for Autistic Spectrum Disorders in the new DSM 5 that is currently being worked on. I have been to a conference where it was mentioned what some of the proposals would mean for ASD. Basically, this will now become a Diad of Impairments (Social/Communication and Interaction in one category and Restrictive and Repetive Behaviours/Interests in another. It would also mean a diagnosis of ASD but Levels 1-3 (1 = Requiring Support, 2= Req Substantial Support, 3= Req. very substantial support) and getting rid of everything else, ie Kanners Autism, Classic Autism, PDD-NOS, Aspergers, CDD, PDA etc. As a parent of a child recently diagnosed with Aspergers, I am unhappy. There are a lot of support networks for people with Aspergers, and it is considered by some to be a condition alone, a lot of people identify with Aspergers. I imagine there would be unhappiness about the Aspergers being discarded when people are only just getting to grips with what Aspergers is and what features is considered a part of Aspergers Syndrome. Also, I don't know if I would want my child relabelled as ASD Level 1!! Nor, if there is no flexibility on some of the features in the Restrictions/Behaviours it could make it difficult for benefits, ie Level 1 - that's mild therefore not entitled to much. Not recognising that people with Aspergers can have great difficulties, which vary, according to times in their life and circumstances - which could be more disabling for them ie with depression/anxieties. On the postive side, Sensory Integration Difficulties are to be included as part of the diagnosis as often present. THE DSM5 (Diagnostic manual from America) is still a work in progress. Take a look at proposed changes - the idea of simplifying is good but I really hope that they keep Aspergers (even if it is a sub-group from type 1) - give it more time until next review. The website is DSM5.org - look for neurodevelopmental disorders at the top of the dropdown and then go down to Autistic Spectrum Disorders. There is controversy regarding the changes amongst professionals, but hopefully, they will consider arguments for/against and listen - particularly with regard to Aspergic people and their families and the professionals who work with them. Take a look at the DSM 5 website. It is American but it is widely used in UK for diagnostic purposes and when finalised - this will impact on clinicians diagnosing and possibly a re-diagnosing of people. This is not intended to scaremonger but just to raise awareness about what is likely to happen in the near future. I had no awareness of it and it concerns me now that I am aware. I don't know how many people are aware of these proposals other than clinicians.

[philipo]

This is not intended to scaremonger but just to raise awareness about what is likely to happen in the near future. I had no awareness of it and it concerns me now that I am aware. I don't know how many people are aware of these proposals other than clinicians.

 

It follows the salvish pattern of the American diagnostic models.Like the current classifications of mental illness.Obviously the medical establishment needs to have a logical ruler for diagnosis.While I beleive autisim and aspergers 'seem ' to be be two poles of the same disability ,I think we must be VERY WARY of undoing our present understandings of the condition and of the hard won sacrifices of sufferers and their parents/carers,particulary as 'asd' is a multipul of problem areas .Judging by the categorys proposed it seems clearly obvious that the various levels 1 to 3 are to do with the financial implications of care and treatment and may be the thin end of the wedge to 'fudge' the issues ,as the reality of asd is that so little money and time has been invested by the medical establishment.Another danger to parents /carers/sufferers ,who have the greatest knowledge and experience of the subject is that they are a threat to the institutionalised mental health services and their proffesional kudo's and social status,after all this is part of a medical establishment that is obsessed by 'wonder drugs' and the American model (like our mostly quasi privatised NHS) is far to heavily influenced by financial concerns,concerns that have repeatedly poisoned and maimed and continues to offer the magick elixiers of controlling human behaviour through pills.There are also vested interests in using drugs designed for severe mental health problems for autisim which will continue to create the perception that asd's are a 'mental health issue' rather than a disability that require 'CARE and SUPPORT.' That care and support is time intensive and very costly in wages and peoples time as many carers know,like many mental health conditions.

Research the fraudelent drug trials,like seroxat and viox,primados and loads of others and research the 'trials' of ect and youll find that there was none.Drugs are like religous revivals or pop bands,they come in and out of fashion.The bottom line is money,not individual needs,psychic triage, not the 'holistic' approach.I think the nhs should not be trusted with the tidal wave of asd as they will very quickly turn it into behavoural warfare with chemical weapons.cos its much cheaper than helping asd'rs with the positives,positives that have the potential to create an economic ,technological and cultural revolution.Look at how we care for our old people in the UK ,and there mostly compus mentus.

If medical 'thought' from America was any good then why does a large proportion of their poulation not receive basic medical services?Because its based on a economic model,profit profit profit and intellectual hegmoney just like GM foods and American Cultural and economic Imperialism.Carers and committed proffesionals in the area of asd's should beware of a 'Boardroom buyout.'

[Mumble]

It would also mean a diagnosis of ASD but Levels 1-3 (1 = Requiring Support, 2= Req Substantial Support, 3= Req. very substantial support) and getting rid of everything else

Thanks for the info. There's been some speculation about what the labels or levels would be once AS, HFA, etc. are removed. I've only just read this, but I at the moment think it sounds fairly positive. It manages to convey the substantial support required by those with severe ASD, without dismissing the needs of those with HFA. I may change my mind when I've thought more about it (), but for now, I would say this is a fair compromise. I'd be interested in what others thought?

 

Was anything said about how people will be moved onto the new labels, or will these only apply to new diagnoses, with the old labels remaining for those who currently have them?

 

Also, do those levels (see I'm thinking already... ) just apply to the impairment/need created by the ASD and how is this judged? What would happen where an individual (as common in severe autism) has ASD and LD? Would it be support required for the ASD and support for the LD or a combined level of support? And if combined where does that stop - what about someone with ASD and epilepsy? What about other medical conditions? Interesting, though...

[philipo]

[

 

Was anything said about how people will be moved onto the new labels, or will these only apply to new diagnoses, with the old labels remaining for those who currently have them?

 

quote

 

Its seems about as relevant incoherent as the name changing of welfare benefits over the years with its self serving agenda...e.g sickness benefit is now called employment suppport allowance!Prperty ownership which is mortgage slavery and economic control ...and democracy which means mob rule by the vested minority.George Orwell would be proud !!!!As many asd'rs and most other voters know the abuse of language ,and the matching of languauge to actual intent and implementation knows no bounds .Words like user based approach.....freedom and democracy....care in the community.... the way it seems to be going economically at least ,these proposed changes may become superfluous....If there was a clear intent from health service proffesionals then I'd say 'put your money where your mouth is'.Theres more fundamental social and power equalities that need sorting before asd'rs really stand a chance..like the redistribution of wealth and equality in education so.. like the past,, help yourself,here and now.The powers that be are spending far more money on self inflicted illness,like gastric bands,alchoholism and drug addiction and drunken violence and dangerous driving.But no goverment/health service dare challenge the big money interests of the oil lobby or the breweries or food combines.

[Mumble]

Its seems about as relevant incoherent as the name changing of welfare benefits over the years with its self serving agenda...e.g sickness benefit is now called employment suppport allowance!Prperty ownership which is mortgage slavery and economic control ...and democracy which means mob rule by the vested minority.George Orwell would be proud !!!!As many asd'rs and most other voters know the abuse of language ,and the matching of languauge to actual intent and implementation knows no bounds .Words like user based approach.....freedom and democracy....care in the community.... the way it seems to be going economically at least ,these proposed changes may become superfluous....If there was a clear intent from health service proffesionals then I'd say 'put your money where your mouth is'.Theres more fundamental social and power equalities that need sorting before asd'rs really stand a chance..like the redistribution of wealth and equality in education so.. like the past,, help yourself,here and now.The powers that be are spending far more money on self inflicted illness,like gastric bands,alchoholism and drug addiction and drunken violence and dangerous driving.But no goverment/health service dare challenge the big money interests of the oil lobby or the breweries or food combines.

And that answers the question exactly how?

[philipo]

And that answers the question exactly how?

We cant asnwer the question because behind the backs of asd rs and the parents/carers they are already cutting a deal to classify the disabilty into neat administritive blocks,They'll end up using old and new definitions to pigeon hole there long term strategy to whatever makes it easier for the normsetters.In the last few months the brit goverment 'consulted' the people of Britain on the implimentation of its 'health service reforms'...i.e. cutbacks.They spoke to about 15,000 people,all of them vested interest groups....out of a population of 70 MILLION!They then took this 'consultation' with the people as a mandate to carry out their massive restruchturing policy,i.e.the near full privatisation of the NHS,

In practice it might mean that the LEA are reponsible for LD while you'll have to see your GP about Epilepsy and then take another busride across town to see the ASD worker,and another busride to see the diabled benefits adviser rather than have an empowered service that will make it quicker and easier for all in one location,what i'm saying is that the accountants rule and have probably had a few impressive powerpoint meetings on how it will all work,with lovley pie charts and flow diagrams with 'outcomes' more applicable to managing a DHL parcel delivery service than a system with the intangible human element incorperated.From the reading of it Category one could easily all be sent to jobclub or end up doing crappy compulsory jobs in B and Q and Piazza Hut because some eating disorderd civil servant who sits in a chair at the jobcentre for 40 years orders them too,under threat of benefit withdrawl.You should have a good look at how Hitler exterminated the Jews.It was mainly done with the German Intelligensia,middle classes and civil service and local council clerics ,the intruments of state power,not jackbooted stormtroopers.The dangers of simplification!!!!!!!!!!Well before the 'showa' or 'holocaust' in 1910 Winston Churchill stood up in Parliment and proposed the killing of 'life not worthy of life'...'mercy killings,'for the severely disabled.....his words not mine.If I was a pragmatic capitalist i'd invest in the company that makes risopredene and methodone and amyltriptalene.

[philipo]

We cant asnwer the question because behind the backs of asd rs and the parents/carers they are already cutting a deal to classify the disabilty into neat administritive blocks,They'll end up using old and new definitions to pigeon hole there long term strategy to whatever makes it easier for the normsetters.In the last few months the brit goverment 'consulted' the people of Britain on the implimentation of its 'health service reforms'...i.e. cutbacks.They spoke to about 15,000 people,all of them vested interest groups....out of a population of 70 MILLION!They then took this 'consultation' with the people as a mandate to carry out their massive restruchturing policy,i.e.the near full privatisation of the NHS,

In practice it might mean that the LEA are reponsible for LD while you'll have to see your GP about Epilepsy and then take another busride across town to see the ASD worker,and another busride to see the diabled benefits adviser rather than have an empowered service that will make it quicker and easier for all in one location,what i'm saying is that the accountants rule and have probably had a few impressive powerpoint meetings on how it will all work,with lovley pie charts and flow diagrams with 'outcomes' more applicable to managing a DHL parcel delivery service than a system with the intangible human element incorperated.From the reading of it Category one could easily all be sent to jobclub or end up doing crappy compulsory jobs in B and Q and Piazza Hut because some eating disorderd civil servant who sits in a chair at the jobcentre for 40 years orders them too,under threat of benefit withdrawl.You should have a good look at how Hitler exterminated the Jews.It was mainly done with the German Intelligensia,middle classes and civil service and local council clerics ,the intruments of state power,not jackbooted stormtroopers.The dangers of simplification!!!!!!!!!!Well before the 'showa' or 'holocaust' in 1910 Winston Churchill stood up in Parliment and proposed the killing of 'life not worthy of life'...'mercy killings,'for the severely disabled.....his words not mine.If I was a pragmatic capitalist i'd invest in the company that makes risopredene and methodone and amyltriptalene.

ps moderator re eating disorderd, can I say that as I am eating disorderd?

[Monkeypuzzle123]

Thanks for the info. There's been some speculation about what the labels or levels would be once AS, HFA, etc. are removed. I've only just read this, but I at the moment think it sounds fairly positive. It manages to convey the substantial support required by those with severe ASD, without dismissing the needs of those with HFA. I may change my mind when I've thought more about it (), but for now, I would say this is a fair compromise. I'd be interested in what others thought?

 

Was anything said about how people will be moved onto the new labels, or will these only apply to new diagnoses, with the old labels remaining for those who currently have them?

 

Also, do those levels (see I'm thinking already... ) just apply to the impairment/need created by the ASD and how is this judged? What would happen where an individual (as common in severe autism) has ASD and LD? Would it be support required for the ASD and support for the LD or a combined level of support? And if combined where does that stop - what about someone with ASD and epilepsy? What about other medical conditions? Interesting, though...

Hi

 

Am not sure how it will work exactly but I presume other form of disability will be diagnosed separately as it was explained in seminar about how it applies to autism only. Whether reclassification happens of already diagnosed Aspergers/PDD-NOS etc,who knows? Could be a costly excercise if everybody reassessed so I would have thought not. I guess we have to wait and see. I hadn't realised that there were more on this subject on this forum but it seems most are okay with change to general ASD.

[Mumble]

Am not sure how it will work exactly but I presume other form of disability will be diagnosed separately as it was explained in seminar about how it applies to autism only.

Thanks. I think as you say we'll have to see what it looks like in practice. Thinking about my brother as an example (severe ASD and LD) I have no idea how anyone could say what was 'just' an ASD issue for him and what was caused by the LD. And, of course, all needs can interact with each other and make some worse.

[Lynden]

Thanks. I think as you say we'll have to see what it looks like in practice. Thinking about my brother as an example (severe ASD and LD) I have no idea how anyone could say what was 'just' an ASD issue for him and what was caused by the LD. And, of course, all needs can interact with each other and make some worse.

 

Agree with this Mumble - we would really struggle to separate Ls autism from his learning difficulties as the two are so intertwined for him.

 

Lynne