Adrenaline - does this make anyone have meltdown?

[blm]

I have been 'looking' for triggers with my son's meltdowns (as he cannot recognise what things trigger his crying) and I have noticed at football he will do a really good tackle or run like hell to get the ball and no one will be hurt or anything and he generally does what he intended to do so nothing to do with disappointment but he will then burst into tears. Does anyone know if adrenaline can be a trigger with AS? I have also noticed that he does it when sparring at kickboxing too. Just trying to work him out!!! ;-)

[Lyndalou]

Is it possible that in his OWN head he has not accomplished what he set out to do? You may think he has done something really well but does he? For example, my son has recently been writing words extremely neatly and to my mind very well on his etch-a-sketch but he has obviously himself been unhappy with what he has done. He constantly wipes out the letters and redoes them but each successive attempt is still not good enough and he is ending up throwing the etch-a-sketch across the room and if he has worked himself up enough then he gets very upset and may cry, scream or be aggressive towards his sister.

 

I may be completely off the mark but it was what came into my head when I read your post.

[blm]

That's a very valid point actually - I hadn't thought of it that way. He is very similar in that if he doesn't get it 'perfect' it isn't good enough but he generally gives up after one attempt now (I am assuming he does this to avoid getting worked up by it). We have kept enforcing the 'practice makes perfect' and the more you try something the easier it becomes and he will sometimes try again but he does get upset if he can't do something (the "no such word as can't" statement doesn't work with him!). I will bear this in mind when it happens again and try to talk to him but it's difficult as he just tells us he doesn't know what made him cry or he will try to make up a reason just to answer us (even if it isn't the actual reason i.e. my finger hurts). He confuses the hell out of me sometimes so I can't even imagine what's going on in his head!

Thank you very much

[chris54]

Apart from crying, what else is he doing. Have you ever seen sports people in tears when they have achieved. Is that what is going on.

[LancsLad]

I have never found adrenaline to be a trigger for me and I have been someone who is drawn to adrenaline sports. The role of adrenaline is to act as a natural stimulant to get the body in a position to jump start into a heightened state, it might play a role if anything it should be a help in regulating him. Other ideas might be, is this towards the end of games, is he pretty tired and just running on empty and has nothing left to give emotionally?

 

Something I could possibly see happening at a more scientific level,especially at the end of a long session is he might he be really exerting himself over a minute or so and his body is trying to switch between aerobic energy systems to anerobic and he has no resources left in his muscles to manage this, he is glycogen deficient. A normal NT brain would recognise this and back off lactic acid levels being the prompt. I know as someone with AS and who trains seriously for triathlon I can push myself really hard but need to be body aware when I go anerobic that is at very high intensity levels which are at high heart rates, and back off. Your son might not be mature enough and body aware enought to feel this. If your son is getting to this state his body will kick in to self regulate this and this feeling might be the trigger, he is loosing control over his own body. He would have to be going really hard the closest analogy I can give would be think of a toddler having a full blown tantrum, and then very instantaneously they are exhausted as the shut down mechanism kicks in. If he was unfit one or two 'runs like hell' might be a trigger at any time. If he is fitter he should be capable of a dozen or more such efforts in a game but would need couple of minutes for his body to replenish the muscles to go at this intensity again. No one can keep up this intensity over a medium period of time otherwise Usain Bolt would win the 10,000 metres by sprinting 100m jog 10 sprint 100 jog 10 etc... Is he simply playing and kickboxing as a headless chicken?

 

If there is some truth in what I am proposing a key will be getting him properly fueled for these activities and that is through good quality carbohydrates a couple of hours before the session, cereals and vegetables. You might want to try a carbohydrate sports drink which is easier to take in up to half an hour before the session. I would not go for high sugar items such as pop of sweets/chocolate bars this is counter productive. The other solution is to try and get him to learn pacing strategies which is all about being aware of the ebb and flow of a game, when its ok to jog back to position.

 

Come back and let me know if this makes any sense I am simply speculating and putting a sports science brain on to try and find a chemical trigger, its difficult without seeing him in action, and I guess the meltdown tends to dominate thinking and it is hard to remember precisely what preeceded it.

[blm]

Thanks for your replies on this one - it baffles me so 'any' suggestions at all will help me understand him so I can help him since he cannot explain why he cries!

 

There doesn't seem to be a pattern of when he cries at football (apart from hard tackles which he will make) and it is normally at the beginning to middle of the game so I'm assuming it's not down to tiredness - we're quite good at making sure he has a carb meal a few hours before a game and he normally has a banana too so I think he is ok energy wise. We have noticed once he has had a cry he is completely different and plays brilliant. It's like the tears release something - maybe it's nerves and they come out in tears? He has been playing for Southampton FC recently (which is an amazing opportunity) and he's had two matches and hasn't cried at all! But in his local team matches, he cries at nearly every match! I'm now thinking maybe it's the build up of pressure on him (as he is one of only 2 good players in his team so he knows he has to perform because the others usually underperform) whereas in the Southampton match, he knows all of his team are good (as they've all been chosen to train/play for Southampton) so the pressure is therefore off. I haven't ever been into competitive team sports so I don't know how people feel in this situation.

 

I do remember when I was a teenager there were a few girls who didn't like me (I was the quiet un-rough kind) and I remember having arguments with them and before I could even defend myself against their attacks on me (verbal and physical) I would start shaking and be unable to talk properly and want to cry - now I'm wondering if that's how he feels - nerves build up to such a degree they make your body react in a funny way. He cannot explain why he cries at all and if we make suggestions he will agree with them just to give us an answer (so I've stopped giving suggestions now!).

 

The more I think about it, the more I'm inclined to think it's the pressure/nerves in football and the tears release these nerves but I don't have ASD so my thinking is different to an Aspie. The kickboxing only happens if he doesn't keep his guard up and he gets a knock (not forceful) so I'm thinking that's embarrassment tbh. I'm not worried about the kickboxing as he only goes for fitness / fun but the football is his real passion and one where he has a lot of talent which could potentially be wasted if we cannot help him control it. He used to cry when he missed a goal (now he's got over that one); then he'd cry if he scored and everyone cheered (now he's got over that one) so now it's the unexplained tears that will happen when tackling. He overcomes one hurdle only for another one to crop up. We've had other teams start making fun of him now and I don't want him to get this or he may become withdrawn and even more unconfident.

 

Thanks again for your help

[LancsLad]

Blm I think your comment about the level of sport he is playing is is very interesting and puts a new slant on this.

 

I think sport in many ways has a lot of appeal to an Aspie such as myself, it is clear cut, and there are defined rules which all people subscribe to, or so it should be. I have always been happiest in sport when I am playing at a level which is very competitive and is a real challenge for me. At my age of 46 in my chosen sport of triathlon this is more important than ever before. I have made the decision that I will only race when I am really competitive and able to compete in the top 10% or better, there is a good reason for this. That reason is I can not stand all the ###### which is around so much of sport and the excuses which go with it. Sport should be simple if I am good enought on the day I will win if I am not I will loose and as such i respect the performances of others. As a mature adult I have never played sport as a means to be fit, to make friends, to be part of a social group etc... I play sport to win thats what it is there for isn't it. When I was younger it was far more complex than that.

 

In trying to understand how he might be thinking I will try and explain my own feelings about team sport. I suspect your son will have great difficulties in playing at levels below his capabilities and will have a very strong desire to make things right in his mind, and that is to turn a game into a simple win/loose scenario, but it is not as simple as that. The closest I have come to being in his position is when I made the decision to drop down a couple of levels in a rugby club and captain a team. The reason behind this was I could not face the social aspects of all the training as the club became far more structured. Up to that point I simply made sure I was very fit and practiced my kicking and passing skills on my own during the week spending a few hours training in isolation. I could easily train for an hour by myself going through drills as I would in a full team session but with total commitment and motivation. The concept that you must train with others to be up for selection was too big an ask. It was also a big ask to captain the team for me especially thinking about it if the outcome was in question. When we were winning comfortably there was no real problem, in fact I could take enjoyment in the achievement of my team mates and found it hard to play at my level and would have minimal influences in the game. When we were up gainst it I loved it because that defined my leadership by simply taking it to the opposition in a very physical way. What was difficult was the middle ground because i felt it was up to me to make the difference and that came with a lot of pressure. When I got it right I was the hero the great captain, the one who could be playing at a higher level. This felt great as it provided a temporary antidote to my social shortcomings and i felt like an important part of the team, when we lost in close matches and I couldn't do it and make a difference on the pitch then I knew I would not be able to make a difference in the bar later and that felt like a double failure.

 

I know the insight I am giving is that of an adult Aspie but I am sure a lot of this could go through the mind of a child in your sons position. I do not think we are bad losers or good winners for that matter, rather we want things to be honest and simple and believe sport should provide that if anything can. The issue around a lot of childrens team sports is it is anything but simple ther are a lot of parental and social influences in place. These influences are not easy to understand from an ASD perspective, even more so if we think we can kind of influence them, with age I know I can not, but it has taken me years to come to that conclusion.

 

Blm when I first read your original post I wondered is this a parent who is going along to a local football club trying to get their ASD son involved and make a few friends though he might not be very good. I can now see this is not the case. My advice in general is if your son has potential and it sounds as if he might have some, but so do lots of kids but for every one with real potential there are 50 who do not, senior coach speaking here who has been involved with future internationals in cricket, then do whatever you can to keep him in sport. As he moves up it will become more and more about performance and it will need all his focus to be concerned in his own performance and there are less distractions. I suspect at Southampton your son intrisicly feels that the others around him are very competant and as such he might feel he is in the right place and able to be himself. The social element tends to decrease somewhat as everyone knows that a team mate today is competition for a place in a years time so rather than being friendly it is cordial, this suits Aspies reserved friendship is a great concept.

 

I think as he makes progress in his chosen sport his self esteem will become better and more related to sports performance, the reaction of adults, his coaches being far more inluential than his peers. I believe the hard part is keeping a perspective on this. As Aspies some things are really important to us and we are not very good at dealing with some situations due to emotional immaturity. In a way football might just matter too much and this is simple emotional overspill as he puts everything into his game, if this does not affect performance does crying matter, top sports men and women cry why because it matters to them. There is nothing wrong with passion as long as it is under control. I doubt very much that this emotion is directed at others I suspect it is a very personal thing. It is easy to be on the outside and say these things do not matter and that its only a game, to have fun, that taking part is the important thing but is this really the case. I can remeber vividly at my primary school after coming second in the big obstacle race having a massive argument with the head teacher in front of the school and all the parents, all over the fact that the last section involved having to put a dress on and run to the line. I lost a five yard lead to be narrowly beaten why because my dress was longer than my legs and i was tripping up over its length whilst the winners was about a third of the length. Looking back it is a bit embarasing but my argument was at the time why call it ###### sportsday when sport is supposed to be fair and have rules, the whole day was a joke and more like a set of party games, I was of course disqualified but as I didn't win I didn't care, I think iwas about 7 at the time. It's hard to know what goes on in the head of an ASD child but we can speculate, my experience is I have always thought in black and white terms and grey areas are very difficult for me. Team sports at lower levels are by their nature very grey, as you move up the ladder they become more black and white and in my experience less serious, people accept for example all sportspeople have off days at this level. I suspect your son is very passionate about his sport and sees it in his own black and white terms. As he is not very understanding about what it might be like to be another person in the team he will overestimate the influence he plays in events and possible this leads to artifical levels of pressure. I suspect at times he is good enough to have a big influence and this possible reinforces his misconceptions. As a sideline it might be the case that performance is linked to social acceptance and if he wants to feel as if he fits in this just adds pressure into the situation. When the pressure builds up he simply crys as an emotional release and safety valve.

 

just a few thoughts, you will need to work things out yourself on this no one ever said aspie kids were not interesting,

 

best wishes.