aggression in 5 year old

[joybed]

Hi been having a good time so far with both boys but for last week have been really struggling to deal with Piers behaviour. He is diagnosed HFA probably aspergers and is being assessed for ADHD also. He is very hyperactive and aggressive and when he gets in one of his moods their is no reasoning qith him or getting through to him. I appreciate it is the school holidays back tomorrow but these are a few of the incedents.

1, Had an argument with his big brother also ASD and started swearing was told of for swearing and became even more wound up. Incedent ended with me finding him with a steak knife (he was going to kill Marcus ) he was running upstairs with knife ( he would have hurt him had he got their) I literally had to wrestle him to the ground.

 

2, Argument wth sister punched her in the face and split her lip.

 

3, When i intervene he scratches me, kicks, punches bites pulls hair anything to get away.

 

4, Today has been Ms birthday we went for a meal spoiled by Piers who ran round restaurant screaming, played with knives and was generally disruptive, behaved in cinema but talked loudly all the time. As we left cinema he passed urine in the street in full view of everyone then got upset because Lydia sat in the car seat he wanted, again punched her then ran away without his coat on shouted i was an idiot took 20 minutes to get him in the car and i leiterally had to wrestle him in the car seat.

 

5, Didn,t want to eat breakfast wanted sweets I refused to give sweets he spent the next 1 hour lining up boxes of cereal and screaming at me. After this incedent Lydia was found hiding in her room sucking her thumb and looking terrified.

 

When he gets like this he completely loses the plot you can,t reason with him and he appears to not be with you any more. He is tiny for his age but very strong and i physically cannot do anything with him. I am worried about the future I am sure at some point he will be in trouble with the police.

I can,t wait to see his paediatrician again although he has said even if ADHD is diagnosed he would be reluctant to prescribe medication due to his short stature. I am struggling to cope especially as at times he is a very sweet loving little boy who has the most wicked sense of humour and a keen interest in all kinds of things.

Any tips, he wont stay on the naughty step, is beyond reasoning with and everything else has failed. My mum suggests a good smack A, I don,t agree with this and B the odd time i have smacked him he hits me back so I am just teaching him violence is OK. HELP

[JsMum]

Firstly I understand your mothers attitude to giving a smack, but it wont work, I tried this short term when J was five and it made him more volitile, so from a parent whos been there I personally wouldnt because children who no sence of consequences dont learn this way, all it did was make me feel so terribly guilty and so I had to search for more constructive ideas.

 

naughty step again didnt work for J either,

 

when we finally did get some support what was introduced was very spersific communication and visual aids to help J communicate his difficulties, what he had was cards that described his feelings and emotions and then a set of routines to help him calm down,

 

A lot of what your describing is that peirs is having a real issue with his feelings such as anger or when he is feeling hurt, he wants revenge,

 

what has to be clear though is that he can not use violence and he is now really causing a lot of harm, which needs to be discussed and shared with his peadatrition because it could be that medication for his ADHD could really help here when a Its clear that his impulse decisions are not good ones to make when he is in a rage, upset ect.... medication for ADHD can help a child think before they act it acts like a window of oportunity.

 

There may be medications for ADHD that do not inturupt his growing development.

 

I would keep a ABC chart

 

http://www.wolverhamptonhealth.nhs.uk/Libr...ABC%20Chart.pdf

 

This is useful information on ABC chart too, and challenging behaviour.

 

http://www.thecbf.org.uk/10NEWFA.pdf

 

of his behaviour and copy it into his file for the peadatrition, I would also arrange a meeting with school to discuss his behaviour at home as he will require support at school with the changes.

 

What we have learnt to do with J over the last few years too is warn him of any activities/venues excitement, that way he has an awareness of what is happening, maybe a day dairy will help with this, even at school

 

So say Monday is Maths, playtime, English, Dinner, PE, Playtime, History Home time.

 

We divided the day up for J into morning afternoon and evening so it was clear what he was doing in that day.

 

Good Luck

 

JsMumxxx

 

Edited January 4, 2010 by JsMum

[justine1]

Hi,sorry you having such a tough time at the moment <'> Like Jsmum has said smacking is really pointless,I also did this when Sam was younger he wasnt harming others but he would put himself in danger like jumping off furniture and running across roads,he just never listened so thought a smack would help(this was before I knew he has AS) he used to think its a game and laugh,running around!

 

I also think meds may help him.Is there any way you could more his assesment forward?I did this with my son,I told them he had been excluded twice for his aggressive behaviour and they saw me the following week.I think you should call them and explain that your other kids are scared of him,I know it sounds mean but this will help him(and you) get the help quicker.If not you can go to the GP and explan things are getting worse at home.

 

I hate the idea of meds,my son is 6 and he is not really aggressive at home (just one serious incident few weeks ago)but at school he harms kids everyday,I am not there so dont know the triggers etc. but it worries me and I am now considering medication.If he did harm his brothers I think I would definatley do it straight away.

 

Lastly keep strong I know you must feel at breaking point but just know we know what you going through <'> <'>

[JsMum]

 

In past posts someone here posted this on the forum, it was very good.

 

http://www.ich.ucl.ac.uk/gosh_families/inf...m_families.html

 

JsMumxxx

 

[cmuir]

Hi

 

I sympathise completely and have/am in the same position. I have an 8 year old who can be extremely challenging (swears, hits, kicks, self harms, make dreadful threats, will attempt to gain access to knives, etc.......).

 

The naughty step and time out hasn't worked for us at all, since in my mind, both options are about attempting to get the child to sit calmly and think about their actions at a time when their not in control of their emotions. Goes without saying that there are some things that R does which I can't ignore, but generally R gets two warnings (just so as their no mistaking that I mean business). The warning consists of telling him 'you must stop shouting or ....'. Try and avoid getting into a debate/argument or engaging in anything that lengthy or providing attention, adding fuel to the fire. Whatever R is into, for example, xbox or wii, that will be confiscated for the remainder of the day. I have to admit that when I carry out the threat things do get worse. However, strangely, it cuts things short and R becomes tearful instead of aggressive. Again, I try and avoid giving any attention. CAMHS advised me to use reward charts, etc, but again, we've had very limited success with those. However, key with those is that it's about being positive and setting goals that are achievable, eg, split he day into 3 (morning/noon/nightime). Use stickers for specific tasks/behaviours (concentrating only on one thing at a time eg swearing). If kiddo doesn't manage to achieve a sticker for he morning, s/he may still have the opportunity to achieve at noon/nightime (had it been a sticker for he whole day, potentially kiddo could 'blow' it in the morning and think 'what the heck' and behave really badly the rest of the day!). The reward don't have to be costly - could simply be extra time on the computer, for example.

 

It's a whole lot easier said than done, but the above has had good results for us (certainly not worked miracles). R does go through spells where nothing works and he requires a bit of space/time on his own. Sometimes, distractions (not rewards) can work, eg bouncing on his trampoline or bashing his punchbag can help to expel some energy.

 

I bought quite a good book for R and I to work through. It's called Volcano in my tummy and is designed for primary age kids. I thought that it explains anger very well.

 

Best wishes. Hope things improve soon (probably the festive period/change in routine/excitement/no school/etc hasn't helped!).

 

Caroline.

[Sally44]

I also don't think smacking will work. However fear of being smacked does sometimes allow me to get my son's attention.

Previously if I did smack him his response was either that he did not appear to feel it in his emotional state. Or he seemed to feel it too much and I would feel dreadful about that too. Afterall if he has sensory issues we don't really know what they feel at times.

But what happened would be that anger would turn to tears. C Muir seems to get the same response from removing something his son liked. So if your son knows beforehand that if he does (a) he will get his wii time stopped for the morning etc then when he does misbehave, give him the warning then withdraw it. It might move him from the emotional state of anger into tears. But if he also understands that if he behaves he can have wii time in the afternoon or evening then that is something to work towards. Because I also know that my son could not cope with having his name on the naughty board at school for all day. We had to put a system in place where he could repair that and become good again.

The only thing that works for us is to send, or take him to his bedroom and leave him in there. He doesn't get violent towards us, but the swearing, shouting, screaming abuse etc is common. Sometimes he comes round and will come downstairs to apologise. Sometimes he just cries himself to sleep.

But I would push for some input, maybe through ABA, and also discuss if there are any medication options. Firm routines for breakdowns in behaviour, and some work on emotional understanding and response. Although it is hard on you, it must be terrifying for other siblings who are frequently being hurt.