Adhd/dyslexia?

[Viper]

Hi I think I might sound a bit stupid with this question but if I don't ask I won't know.

 

Are conditions like adhd, dyslexia, dispraxia etc all part of the Autistic spectrum or are they co-morbids without any connection. What conditions are on the spectrum?

 

Call me stupid if you want but the lines are getting blurred.

 

Viper.

[Guest flutter]

i have read somewhere thata they are all on same spectrum,

will do some research,

i know that when aspergers was brought up and i did did research i noticed that they all were there, cos my bruv is dsylexic and he was adhd ( hyperactive years ago)

[Lucas]

There has always been some confusion here.

 

They are not Autistic, they have their own banners:

 

ADHD: It's been studied for forty odd years now but what is known about it is as dogmatic as what is known about Autism. My own idea is that it does not exist, but is actually a number of other things like Autism, Dyslexia, Hyperlexia and learning difficulties being unrecognised. ADHD is not a seperate entity but a symptom of other things. This is why I don't argue against 'Interventions' I just disagree with the use of this word for different teaching approaches as it is alienating.

 

Dyslexia: Actually has more than one cause. The symptoms can be present in an Autistic where the sensory functions are not intergrated to recognise symbols(Ian Jordan showed how this can be altered externally with Luke Jackson on My Family and Autism). It can also be just poor concentration which is selective to reading and writing, diet can cause that. I was sent to a school for Communication Difficulties which specialised in Dyslexia and 'true' Dyslexia is where the brain just can't do symbols because it is actually made for something else; everyone else at that school was very textile proficient. Arts and Crafts are where they all consistently did well. A disproportionate number of them were able to do the 2, 5 and 10 times tables very fast. This is circular proccessing: when oreinteering, they didn't like Lefts and Rights, Norths and Souths, but they were able to work with direct references like map squares.

 

Dyspraxia: Once again this has multiple causes. Diet affects muscle co-ordination. It can also occur if an Autistic's sensory function is not configured for fine co-ordination(like mine, but this sometimes changes, I'm still looking for the 'switch'). There is also the possibility of nerve damage, but I think this is very rare.

 

So my position is that they are sometimes not stand alone conditions, but the symptoms of other things.

 

I don't believe in the spectrum, but it is generally regarded that Kanner Autism, High functioning Autism(which there is no objective diagnostic criteria for) and Asperger Autism. Attempts have been made in America to remove Aspergers from the spectrum by those disgruntled by the online Autistic community and they think it was started by and is mostly made up of Aspies. The opposite is actually true. There have also been some underhand attempts to include Rett's Syndrome(a Chromosone disorder with behaviour similiar to Autistic, but is catagorically not Autistic), Fragile-X Syndrome, Angelman Syndrome and other disorders of which the cause is known, bare a degree of resemblence behaviourally to Autism but are simply not Autism. It's basically an attempt to exaggerate the devastation of Autism and further bulge the apparent 'epidemic'.

 

The Autism Diva has a website debunking the Autistic Epidemic Myth somewhere. Horay for the Diva!

[Viper]

Hmmm that makes it all so much clearer I guess its a very complicated subjet and I'm begining to think ignorance is bliss

 

What I can identify with is the artistic side of dyslexia, myself and my eldest dd are dyslexic and we are both very arty, I have A levels in Fine art Graphic art, embroidery and love all needle crafts, my dd is taking art, and performing arts at the moment but as you may have noticed my spelling is appaling and maths well thats just not in my vocabulary.

 

Viper.

Edited June 19, 2005 by Viper

[Lucas]

Yes I think the most obvious indication that they are not Autistic spectrum thingies is that you can be Dyslexic/ADHD/Dyspraxic and be Autistic or not.

 

I think the traits are just more readily spotted in Autism because as soon as a diagnosis is given, a great deal of focus is then given to what might be different or odd. I used to see Autistic children everywhere until I cottoned onto the fact that all children are actually weird, it's just because most Autistic study subjects are children that the weirdness if automatically attributed to Autism. It's why Asperger was in a better position than Kanner to make an objective observation as Asperger was a Paediatrician, so he understood children whilst Kanner was a Specialist in disorders that could observe what is 'wrong' a lot more readily than what was childish.

[Gordie]

I have absolutely no basis for this response at all (so feel free to take it with a pinch of salt! ), but I thought ADHD was on the spectrum, and dyslexia and dyspraxia weren't.

 

James

[Guest flutter]

well i am now totally confused

not hard to confuse me tho

[Lucas]

It is very hard for me to explain to someone that I don't think ADHD exists; they think my view is the same as others who say "ADHD doesn't exist, it's just bad parenting, poor diet and indiciplined little brats!"

 

My view is just that ADHD doesn't exist, but the individuals themselves are not being accurately observed. So many then go on to recieve other DXs which explain traits, but retain the ADHD diagnosis. And another problem comes along when there REALLY is some poor or misguided parenting in play; it is impossible to objectively make an accurate diagnosis in such cases, but the label is slapped on anyway.

 

It gets me really angry when the latest super nanny type programme has been on TV and commentators in newspapers point it out as evidence that ADHD isn't real, but they miss the point entirely. ANY child will benefit from an enviroment that is ordered and predictable, but it doesn't mean they are all the same. The cameras certainly won't be rolling when the little weirdos are behaving perfectly well, whilst still being quirky.

[lil_me]

My son was diagnosed with ADHD before ASD and currently reading a book called the ADHD Autism Connection, which basically asks from what I have read so far, that isn't ADHD just another part of the spectrum as they checklists are overlapping in so many areas etc

[littlenemo]

The autistic spectrum is normally assumed to include the close comorbids - ADHD, ADD, OCD, Dyspraxia ....

 

 

There is some disagreement amongst professionals about dyslexia being on the spectrum in the same way

 

most kids with all these diagnoses that I have taught have also had elements in their behaviour and learning that are definitely recognisable as autistic traits. Only very few haven't and I wonder if they have elements that are masked in the way so many AS kids manage to mask their autism in certain environments.

 

Dot and I are both dyslexic and both artistic and we both have some autistic behaviours (pretty low level but it's there)

Com and Nemo are both obviously AS but also very very artistic.

 

perhaps these conditions aren't conditions in their own right but yet more presentations of autism

 

they're still pretty serious conditions to cope with whatever view you take

 

Zemanski

[call me jaded]

I think there are autistic traits in every single one of us. Because we can see autism in ourselves there is an assumption that it must be genetic, but I don't subscribe to that. I believe all these conditions are neurobiological in origin and therefore a different expression of the same set of developmental problems. So, for me, yes they are all on the spectrum.

 

Reading 'The ADHD Autism Connection' was one thing which helped me reach this conclusion.

[wend]

my son is severely dyspraxic and the ed psch says it is definately on the autistic spectrum.she actually thinks most men suffer from autism but thats another story!hope this gets to the right site as i dont have the foggiest what i'm doing.

[yameretzu]

I have been diagnosed with both AD/HD and aspergers syndrome. I believe AD/HD exists, hyperactivity can be very hard on me, like when I'm extreamly restless and can't sit still or other things. Though it has got milder as the years went on it has never gone away.

[Lucas]

The ideas behind believing ADHD doesn't exist are far more complicated than believing it does. This is obscurred by some pretty stupid columnists in newspapers that can only explain alternatives as down to parenting, etc.

 

You could be forgiven for thinking that flu and the common cold are the same thing, even those who have had them have trouble telling the difference. You can even think they are related, when they are not. It is pretty much the same thing with Autism and ADHD, you have to be aware of how your own observation will be influenced. So many conditions are simply a rose by any other name, whilst others are actually multiple conditions stacked.

 

With Autism, a whole lot of things can be explained by the changing sensory proccessing. I've thought of a way of explaining it simply. The Autistic sensory complex has three things:

 

1. A Switch.

 

2. A Trigger.

 

3. A State.

 

A state is the state in which each sensory channel is currently set at, all the sense have like a volume setting which can change.

 

A switch is sensory information which changes the state of one or more sensory channels when one or more is stimulated in a certain way.

 

A trigger is what changes the switches around. So if a certain taste causes a person's vision to change, the same taste may not change it again because the trigger has changed the switches.

 

I think all Autistics have this kind of Synthesasia but most don't realise it because it is so subtle. Even a person's ability to hear themselves think is affected. If someone is distracted by something they don't even know is there, they will of cause appear to have poor concentration.

[smallworld]

Hi,

I think Lucas's post sums up the debate quite succintly.Our paed said they wouldn't bother with a dx of add/adhd as it was part of his given dx of asd. She has also said this about his joint laxity, " it's common in asd children" trouble is this stops us getting an OT assessment.

 

There's a really interesting article/quiz on synaesthesia on the bbc website, I think under the science topic. I'll have another look and let you know the right address.

I was quite spooked by my results !

 

wac

[smallworld]

found it, sorry can't do links( if someone can explain to pc inadequate, I'd be very grateful)

www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/programmes/horizon/derek_prog_summary.shtml

Soz for long address, but it is worth a look

 

wac

Edited June 20, 2005 by waccoe

[caroles]

I think an autistic person can have ADHD,dyslexia,dyspraxia,SID and associated learning difficulties (hiperactivity,attencion problems,sensory integration difficulties,visual processing problems ,motor coordination difficulties) ,

But a person can have a diagnosis of ADHD or any of the others without being autistic,sometimes people can have two o three diagnosis,like ADHD,dyslexia,dyspraxia and still not being autistic.

They are different diagnosis ,and there are much more autistic people with them than general population in % ,they are associated difficulties of the autism,but no autism,conditions that come hand in hand together ,

Most people with dyxprasia also suffer from dyslexia,and SID ,and some of them are autistic but no all of them