School lunchtime

[fgilbert]

Hi,

 

 

We are on the way with our 5 year old son being diagnosed with ASD but also have strong impulsivity.

 

 

At school he recieves 1-to-1 support in lesson time from the local behavioural support team and at lunchtime the school utilises a variety of LSAs to ensure that he is never left unattended. Essentially he has 100% one-to-one support.

 

 

Lunchtime are proving to be increasingly difficult times for him. He struggles in the dining hall to eat his meal - too busy? too noisy? not the traditional sloppy food he likes (stews, roasts, gravies)? too desperate to run around playground? then when he does go on playground he is prone to hitting out (or at the moment head butting!) especially when he feels that a game is not being played in the right way (e.g. kicking a ball in basketball) or he is being stopped doing something..e.g. squelching in the mud on the grass area!

 

 

School are now thinking of bringing him in 15 minutes before everyone else, however, not said yet what he'll do in that time and if he hits one lunchtime then he would not be allowed in playground the next day.

 

 

I believe the lunchtime needs to be more structured...it is too long a time for him. I don't believe that banning him from playground next day will help as it too long a time gap between incident and punishment.

 

 

I wonder if any of you could advise on how the school could effectivly manage lunchtimes better. The local asd outreach teacher stated when i last meant her that my son probably the most complex child his current school come across yet so guess they are on a learning curve so have to be forgiving in a way but need to be fair to my son too.

 

 

hitting isn't acceptable, but at moment, using social stories we are trying hard to overcome this...any adivce here? LOL!!!! want to succeed...

[baddad]

Hi,

 

 

We are on the way with our 5 year old son being diagnosed with ASD but also have strong impulsivity.

 

 

At school he recieves 1-to-1 support in lesson time from the local behavioural support team and at lunchtime the school utilises a variety of LSAs to ensure that he is never left unattended. Essentially he has 100% one-to-one support.

 

 

Lunchtime are proving to be increasingly difficult times for him. He struggles in the dining hall to eat his meal - too busy? too noisy? not the traditional sloppy food he likes (stews, roasts, gravies)? too desperate to run around playground? then when he does go on playground he is prone to hitting out (or at the moment head butting!) especially when he feels that a game is not being played in the right way (e.g. kicking a ball in basketball) or he is being stopped doing something..e.g. squelching in the mud on the grass area!

 

 

School are now thinking of bringing him in 15 minutes before everyone else, however, not said yet what he'll do in that time and if he hits one lunchtime then he would not be allowed in playground the next day.

 

 

I believe the lunchtime needs to be more structured...it is too long a time for him. I don't believe that banning him from playground next day will help as it too long a time gap between incident and punishment.

 

 

I wonder if any of you could advise on how the school could effectivly manage lunchtimes better. The local asd outreach teacher stated when i last meant her that my son probably the most complex child his current school come across yet so guess they are on a learning curve so have to be forgiving in a way but need to be fair to my son too.

 

 

hitting isn't acceptable, but at moment, using social stories we are trying hard to overcome this...any adivce here? LOL!!!! want to succeed...

 

 

Hi - I think the whole idea of sanction the following day being 'too big a gap' is one that gets overworked, TBH. Ideally, immediate 'act' and 'consequence' is better, but I think only severely autistic children would be unable to connect the events of the previous day with a sanction. And of course the sanction fits the crime, which provides a connection and context, as would a teacher simply explaining 'you are in today because of what happened yesterday when you...' I think having more structured lunchtimes would help, but this should not be a matter of somebody effectively 'trailing' your son to intercede when he looks like becoming violent/aggressive or to structure his playtime for him, as that's just setting a precedent that may well continue for the rest of his school career. Your son needs to take 'ownership' and responsibility for his behaviours and to know that there will be consequences - and meaningful consequences (i.e. things he will not like/want to happen that genuinely impact on his day) - when he enacts violent, aggressive behaviours.

 

Reading between the lines, are you saying in your last paragraph that he is also sometimes violent and aggressive at home and that you are trying to curtail this by reading social stories? If so, it is, IMO, a huge error of judgement, because you are basically rewarding aggressive behaviour with 'golden time' - a one to one reading / story lesson. Further, if his understanding is so compromised that he can't understand the concept of a following day punishment, then it is a huge assumption to think he can understand the concept of a social story about hitting without any other reinforcers. He may well be just enjoying the 'hitting bits'. If he is hitting there needs to be a real, meaningful consequence that impacts directly on his life in a way that he will recognise. After all, that's exactly the effect his violence has on his victims. Whatever he likes doing most, take it away for a fixed, specific period of time and do it consistently, regardless of any tantrums, demands or short term escalation in behaviours. Social stories are a good additional tactic, but make sure they are completely clear in their intentions (include the consequence, for example, and why this is necessary) and offered after the 'real' consequence/sanction, not instead of.

 

You've said your son is getting 100% 1-1 support throughout the school day, so the problem isn't schools willingness to support your son but your son's unreasonable behaviour when he doesn't get his own way:

 

Lunchtime are proving to be increasingly difficult times for him. He struggles in the dining hall to eat his meal - too busy? too noisy? not the traditional sloppy food he likes (stews, roasts, gravies)? too desperate to run around playground? then when he does go on playground he is prone to hitting out (or at the moment head butting!) especially when he feels that a game is not being played in the right way (e.g. kicking a ball in basketball) or he is being stopped doing something..e.g. squelching in the mud on the grass area!

 

That's not going to be resolved by giving him his own way more, for looking for possible excuses for the behaviours beyond the fact that he is a five year old acting like any other five year old given a free pass, or by putting all expectations for controlling the behaviours onto tha adults on the scene. HE needs to learn that not all food is swamped in gravy, that he's not in charge of playground games and that he can't squelch around in mud when the fancy takes him. My guess would be that even at five and with potential autism he already does know those things, but at the moment is free not to acknowledge it, and basically has everyone dancing to his tune. Give that kind of power to any five year old, and it aint going to be much fun for anyone on the sidelines.

 

HTH

 

L&P

 

BD

[cmuir]

Hi

 

Your description of your son is pretty much how my son behaved at that age. Things have improved a lot, but that's not to say that issues don't arise. There are a number of things that could perhaps be looked at:

 

- giving him a packed lunch and, if possible, allowing him a quiet place to eat it

- in order to avoid him being alienated, but so as not to overload kiddo, perhaps an older buddy or a circle of friends could be introduced (supervised by an LSA)

- are there any clubs at lunchtime that run e.g. library, IT suite, etc (not for every day, but on days when he needs time out of the playground)

– introduce social stories (check out Carol Gray's website) which would pictorially convey what is expected of kiddo, and also a reward sticker chart where perhaps he can earn 'golden time' i.e. when on a Friday he can have e.g. 10 minutes extra in the playground with a classmate for good behaviour or choose an individual activity

 

It an incredibly difficult time when kids are just starting school. I found it was too much for R and though I've always had my doubts about him being in a mainstream school, he has progressed much better than I anticipated.

 

Best wishes.

 

Caroline

[justine1]

Hi

 

Your description of your son is pretty much how my son behaved at that age. Things have improved a lot, but that's not to say that issues don't arise. There are a number of things that could perhaps be looked at:

 

- giving him a packed lunch and, if possible, allowing him a quiet place to eat it

- in order to avoid him being alienated, but so as not to overload kiddo, perhaps an older buddy or a circle of friends could be introduced (supervised by an LSA)

- are there any clubs at lunchtime that run e.g. library, IT suite, etc (not for every day, but on days when he needs time out of the playground)

– introduce social stories (check out Carol Gray's website) which would pictorially convey what is expected of kiddo, and also a reward sticker chart where perhaps he can earn 'golden time' i.e. when on a Friday he can have e.g. 10 minutes extra in the playground with a classmate for good behaviour or choose an individual activity

 

It an incredibly difficult time when kids are just starting school. I found it was too much for R and though I've always had my doubts about him being in a mainstream school, he has progressed much better than I anticipated.

 

Best wishes.

 

Caroline

Hi

 

I agree with the above Sam(8) was allowed to eat in a class with the pre-reception (nursery) kids there was only maximum of 8 kids with two adults.Plus his younger brother happened to be in that class so it made it that much better for him.

The school had originally said I could come into the school at lunchtimes ortakehim home and bring him back but neither of these options would have worked so refused.But it may be something you want to consider.

 

At playtime he was allowed to stay in when others went out but he could chose a friend to stay with him,he would then play outside/run around when the others were in class.

However in his case both these arrangments only lasted 2 months as the still did'nt cope.It was particularly hard to explain why he could not go out when the others did and he would get angry and through things around.

 

So from the January-June he was only at school part time so he would be home for lunch.At the same time we applied for a stat assessment an he got to start at an ASD unit in the June,got his statement in the october.

 

He is now at a different ASD unit and doing well. They have the support and he stays in the hall for lunch with he mainstream kids and plays ouside with them.He knows what is expected of him and that he will lose time from something he likes,so the sanctions are in place.

 

I do agree with baddad in that he does need some sort of sanction alongside the social stories. Sam was excluded four times in a time of 6 months because of hitting other children and his TA on one occasion.I also had to fetch him from school early many times for such behaviour. It took him ages to understand that as a result of the behaviour he was being sanctioned/punnished he would often laugh and carry on the behaviour when he returned to school.He now understands and he can often say if I do X I am going to lose time.

 

Hope you get it sorted soon.

[ASD-DAD]

Our son only hit out after reaching critical point,ie meltdown.

It is important to remember that they are non-teachable in this stage, the build up of various stresses and then the ultimate trigger that puts them over the edge can result in them having very little understanding or recognition of the event. Any retrospective punishment is not going to be related back to the incident in this case. It is just likely to cause further stress as they fail to understand the reason.

 

Also, despite being verbal, when this state occurs it can also make it even more difficult for them to co-ordinate a reasoned response (takes them longer to process anyway, but under stress even more difficult) and that's why they resort to communicating by hitting out or in some cases running away. Its the most basic, fight / flight response.

 

I really hope things go the right way for your son and he can handle mainstream.

 

We also had huge difficulties at playtimes, generally not helped by the fact his one to one became a general playground support to everyone and he was effectively unsupported in a what is one of the most stressful, confusing times for some kids. Lucnchtime just didn't happen for us, in three years they didn't have him once. We started off on the wrong foot by taking him home and then they made every excuse in the book for not having him as it was easier with him gone. The school day is the whole day, but a lot of people i've spoken to are in the same position. We even suggested they could have a smaller table of children, seperate from the main dining room (which is an effective strategy) and this wasn't even considered.

 

We also were under so much pressure we were constantly trying different strategies, in retrospect they were not suitable for a 5yeard old to fully comprehend - never mind one with ASD. This no doubt resulted in more confusion and further anxiety - all the time we were effectivley trying to condition our son to 'normal' behaviours. You cant chase the ASD out of these kids, its there, will always be there and its the adaptations to allow for the condition i feel are not delivered upon. They always coped well with him when he had a good day because there was no hassle. At the slightest bit of difficulty mass hysteria ensued.