How would you "know"?

[kryptonite]

Hello,

 

Looking for a little insight and I thought perhaps somebody here may be able to help.

 

Is it possible to know for certain if someone has aspergers?

If a child ticked a lot of the boxes then would you assume that they were on the spectrum? Or does it come down to the extent of their differences? How would someone who's not a specialist know what AS looks like?

 

Thanks

[Mihaela]

Welcome!

It all boils down to probabilities. How old is the child? Is it a girl or a boy? Traits generally differ between girls and boys. If a lot of boxes are ticked it's more likely that your child has Asperger's, or perhaps ADHD or PDD-NOS. You can only be certain when you get a professional diagnosis, however, misdiagnoses are quite common. I'm in the process of getting the diagnosis I should have had as a child but I'm now 100% certain that I have it. The more tests done and the more you read about it, the more likely you'll be to be sure - or not. Watching the many Youtube videos about children with autism spectrum conditions will help too.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Mihaela

[Sally44]

Children with an autistic spectrum disorder have difficulties in specific areas. For example speech and language and social communication. And those with a diagnosis can have a range of difficulties within that specific area. For example one child might be totally non-verbal, whilst another may have problems acquiring language and understanding the meaning of language. They might use echolalia. They might take language literally and not understand double meanings, sarcasm. They might only talk to give information and not know how to 'chat socially'. They might not understand verbal instructions. They may find it hard to form or sustain friendships. They might have specific areas of interest that totally obsess them and that is all they want to talk about. They may have a speech and language disorder.

 

Having problems with speech and language can have a knock on effect on education. Some with Aspergers may do really well in areas that are of interest to them ie. science, but fail at english or languages. Some may get an additional diagnosis of a learning difficulty such as dyslexia or a learning disability.

 

You can have a look at the DSM IV diagnostic criteria for an autistic spectrum disorder and Aspergers.

 

It is all about the degree to which things affect the person.

 

Having problems with speech and language and social interaction and maybe having a lack of imagination in all areas [as imagination in areas of interest is common], and being immature emotionally or having problems with understanding emotions in themselves and others and having strict areas of interest can affect their ability to make friends in school/college/work/relationships. That can make the child/adult feel isolated, anxious, upset and lead to low confidence and self esteem etc. So it is a knock on effect and accumulation of difficulties that do affect all areas of life.

 

And sometimes it is only through time that we get to understand our own children, as each person is diffierent, with a different personalitiy and different combinations of difficulties - but they all fall under the autistic spectrum.

 

Those without knowledge of an ASD will often not recognise what is the cause. Sometimes even professionals get it wrong. It is hardest for children in the educational setting when they are not understood and are not supported. It is harder if the medical profession does not refer and get a diagnosis.

 

That can lead to adults that fail within education [or even do very well in education but find they cannot get a job because they don't come across right at interviews - or even those that do get a job but repeatedly fail to get promoted or who feel misunderstood or treated badly in work, or even bullied in school and/or in work - and feel a failure in society and feel alone and isolated. That is what most parents try to avoid by getting the right help at the right time and the right support for education and as an adult.

[kryptonite]

I will have a look at YouTube Mihaela and see if that is useful. In terms of probabilities, other than gender, I am not sure how you would weigh them up. Obviously you are at a point where you know in yourself. Can I ask how you would have benefited from a diagnosis as a child?

Sally, thank you for your very in depth reply. I agree that communication and understanding are very important.

My son, age 8, has been invited to a weekly social skills group at school. I was unaware such things existed but an internet search led me to pages on ASDs. I assume therefore the school is aware of various conditions, although they have not suggested he has a special need, or even explained why he is in this group. However he has had social skills mentioned as an issue since he entered education.

A friend of mine mentioned aspergers a few years back and on looking it up our son did / does appear to have many of the traits.

 

"It is all about the degree to which things affect the person".

 

That is what makes it difficult to know. Where is the boundary between quirky and ASD?

The only negative point I see in our son is that does tend to get upset when things go wrong. And he can lack confidence in doing certain things that he isn't sure about. But imagination, sense of humour, and love of words all there. He has love and understanding from his family, and some mysterious support from school.

Is that enough?

[Mihaela]

Obviously you are at a point where you know in yourself. Can I ask how you would have benefited from a diagnosis as a child?

Where is the boundary between quirky and ASD?

I'd have benefited enormously. My life would have been very different and much happier. My parents would have understood why I was different, and so would I. They would have suffered far less. They'd have known how to support and help me, known what to expect of me, and would have better understood my limitations and strengths. I wouldn't have suffered from years of school bullying - with its lasting scars. In adult life, I'd have found work that I enjoyed - instead of never having had paid work since 1976. I would have been much happier in myself, and far less confused. My life would have been much, much easier. I'd have been persecuted far less. ...I could go on and on thinking of how things could have been so different. I feel cheated out of most of my life, not an easy thing to accept.

 

There are lots of grey areas in psychology and they vary with fashions and cultures. Diagnosis isn't not an absolute science - intuition and discretion play a part. Even professionals who specialise in ASD can have difficulty diagnosing borderline cases. Sometimes they get it wrong - but less so nowadays I expect.

 

 

[dotmarsdotcom]

it is impossible to know for sure.

 

be it for other's we care about or even ourselves?

 

no professional shrink will ever give a 100% diagnosis cause no one still yet knows what they are diagnosing.

 

there will always be those that refuse to function because they can't, and those that choose not too because they aren't getting their way?

 

I ain't a shrink or a doctor or anything like that,

 

but i've had plenty of experience with faker children and even adults. plenty of experience!

 

what I tend to do is just wait until there is something they really want. really really want :-) :-)

 

then if all of a sudden I find they can function, where as previously they always said they couldn't, we've got a faker.

 

I once had a step daughter, who refused to function, on any basis.

 

they basically made everyone look after them and pretty much ruined everyone's life. etc.

 

but as soon as they really wanted something. i.e. a couple of hundred thousand to jump for some business idea they had,

 

and then oh yeah!!! all of sudden they started functioning!

 

a true aspie would not do that.. would not be capable of jumping through hoops.

 

with stuff like that you just know. something inside you will tell you if they are genuine,

 

or if they are just normal NT's looking for a free ride, and not prepared to do anything until they get it.

 

all the best.

[dotmarsdotcom]

soz kyrtonite,

 

I think that was more about me ranting about my stuff and not helping you.

 

come back and tell us all if you find out how to tell?

 

respectfully all the best.

[Mihaela]

My 'friend' who was diagnosed with Asperger's at 30 was faking it in a way, and still is, for she was careful only to tell half the story. She saw her psychologist simply for an AS diagnosis, but was hiding a far bigger issue, her personality disorder in which she considers herself perfect in every way, and humiliates and exploits those who care for her most. She fakes it with strangers and authority figures, but not with those she gets to know well when her very unpleasant side becomes obvious. She now uses her diagnosis to convince others (and maybe even herself) that it's the cause of her most disturbing traits.

When somebody is 'different' we all know intuitively that they are, even us Aspies can sense this. Finding out just exactly what that difference is is more difficult, but any good psychiatrist should be able to get it more or less right. The real difficulty comes when there are a lot of overlapping traits, and mistakes can be made by putting someone in the wrong box. It can then be about as accurate as tossing a coin.

[Waterboatman]

A person can have more than one personality, can appear as quite different people, can not do something most of the time. I am something like that, I am not a fake! If I can be like that, so can others!

My brain has a switch, some people call it 'boost', its adrenaline. With it I come alive can do things that would otherwise be impossible, physically and mentally. Thats why I am a wreck, each 'boost' leaves a trail of destruction behind it.

If your are an individual who does not fluctuate like that, then its going to be difficult to accept and understand.

Adrenaline is a bit like a 'nitro oxide' boost far a car engine, 'top fuel'. It gives great power at a cost of rapid wear. Race car engines are rebuilt every time they are used. Humans have only the one 'engine' spare parts are not really an option. So most of the time 'top fuel' is not used.

Intelligence is expensive, our brains consume a lot of fuel, we are more efficient if we 'idle', run at minimum, where that it is will differ between people.

 

I have never been diagnosed, and am only going for it, as its a diagnoses, I have no other. It would not have done me any good to have been diagnosed as a child, not at the time of my youth. It would have destroyed my life chances, I would never have gone to a school with a good reputation, there was the 'white spires'/'dump' for the learning disabled, that was a taunt used at another. Never worked, who wants a 'leaning disabled person''. I am in my fifties, times have changed in education, yet in employment they have not, and most likely never will !

If the person can live reasonable happily without, then stay away from diagnoses that may harm their future. If no diagnoses, then an individual is quirky or eccentric, plain 'odd' was ok for me.

If they have no future anyway, then no harm can come, benefits need those rubber stamps.

Life is cruel, no point in hiding that, prepare best you can.

Edited November 10, 2014 by trekster

[dotmarsdotcom]

I get what you are saying waterfront.

 

I completely respect your opinions.

 

but I am sorry. with the greatest respect I have to disagree with you.

 

I have read your comments fully.

 

but I still maintain my opinion that if one is aspie/ austistic or not, it can not be controlled or defined logically.it can not be switched on or off (even at the expense of a burn out?)

 

sometimes functioning happens. sometimes spectacularly.

 

(& indeed often aspies are vastly more materially successful than normal people, but it is never by choice?

 

more by accident.)

 

it's very hard for me to explain how I feel about this, and it is just after all a feeling,

 

so I can't claim to be right or wrong on it... it's just stuff and opinion's in my head. your opinion could be right and I could be wrong?)

 

but I feel we all know if someone is aspie. etc. or not. intuitively.

 

..and I feel having such a condition means anyone with it is not in control, (like you say they might be?)

 

I'm sorry I can't be more concise.

 

with the greatest respect, all the best.

Edited November 10, 2014 by dotmarsdotcom

[Waterboatman]

Hum, guess you don't get it "dotmarsdotcom", personality switches are not consciously directly controlled, external influences, anything consumed that mimics adrenaline. I will ignore the 'ASD' stuff, its just a description of normal state, or perhaps due to stress a description of altered state. Have you ever been drunk? HIgh on something?

​I rather let people be people, no tags, no rubber-stamped markings on their heads.

Edited November 10, 2014 by Waterboatman

[trekster]

If they respond to interventions designed to support autistics that's one way of telling.

 

what symptoms are you seeing? We can give our opinion on whether further assessment for autism or something else is warranted.

 

If you can describe your symptoms without a diagnosis you can get certain benefits.

 

Edited November 18, 2014 by trekster

[dotmarsdotcom]

yeah sorry waterboat.

 

I guess I didn't get it. my bad.

 

it is pretty difficult to work out where you are going on some of your posts though waterboat.

 

(that is no disrespect to you, that is me admitting my failure to read you correctly.)

 

I guess it's all about context isn't it.

 

one could give the same sentence someone has typed, to five different people, and they'd all end up thinking different things as to what someone is trying to say.

 

(also it probably doesn't help they we all have our own areas of focus. i.e. I might think you are talking about a certain thing, but that might be cause I'm interested in a particular subject, and hence thinking about it? and vice versa.)

 

all that aside,

 

if I go back to your original question,

 

and this time exclude all my own personal predudices. etc.

 

I still have to say, there is no way to know or decide.

 

I still don't know for sure if I am myself.

 

but re: the getting benefits for it. etc. the long serving moderators have more experience about that sort of stuff.

 

the government system's are strange, they change every day as to what qualifies and what doesn't.

 

re: that area, i'd listen to them, they know more about all that stuff than me.

 

but re: the is there someone you know? who is using fake autism as an excuse to dysfunction, and make others pay for them, I still maintain, use your instinct to decide.

 

regards,

Edited November 12, 2014 by dotmarsdotcom